Post-transmission: BBC Panorama documentary/investigation into vocational schools

[Medora]

11 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

I’m certainly not more knowledgeable but my thoughts on partnering is that there is a suitable someone out there for all….companies can more widely reflect the real world with a mix of body shapes & sizes & yes this will mean a variety of weights that might need to be lifted. Science suggests therefore relevant muscle strength will need to be matched. It’s just gym sense not rocket science. And we all benefit from admiring artistry, athleticism, technique & dramatic acting from a wide range of people who closely reflect the real world bodies we all have 

But there will probably always be an upper limit for safety and also being able to dance the choreography as intended? You can move the cut off limit further up, and we will still end up with this exact debate at some stage. 

[Lindsay]

There is also a difference between the 'ultimate' body dancers will have as an adult professional and the developing body they have as an adolescent.  It is very common for weight to fluctuate during puberty and the schools would do well to take a longer term view and work with the bodies before them rather than trying to force the 'end-product' at a stage where abnormally low weight can have a knock-on effect for later bone health or fertility.  Dance education needs to refocus on the distinction between students and professional dancers - they are not the same thing.

[Bellaboo]

1 hour ago, Balleteveryday said:

As someone whose child is not too far off the stage of applying to these schools, I came out of watching that programme in the hope that it was ‘just’ (please don’t get me wrong, one is too many) a small number of students who’d maybe not done as well as they’d hoped and that it had been put together as sensationalist click-bait. Whilst I’ve never been deaf to the issues I’ve heard on the grapevine, I’ve also always hoped that these were historic issues and that we were now in an era of significant change where this kind of thing wasn’t tolerated. Coming on here and hearing ALL of your stories is heartbreaking. It’s not just those few young people who spoke in the programme and the horrific impact we saw it had on them. And it is not historic, it’s now (I’m aware the programme referred to 50 former students, but we don’t exactly know what they all said).

 

I’m not sure how any parent who watched the programme and reads this thread could confidently say they’d be happy to put their child in this environment even if the child was pushing for it. Yes, we want to support our kids and their dreams but I’m not sure I can ignore the metaphorical big red flashing lights and sirens in the hope that my child somehow will be lucky enough to escape this treatment. 
 

Can I ask what other parents are thinking/feeling if your child is due to audition maybe this year or next? What do we ask the schools on open days/audition days? What do we ask the current students if they are giving tours? Would we as prospective parents ‘damage’ our children’s chances of even being offered a place if we were seen to be asking certain types of questions? I don’t know?!

 

What do we need to see from the schools to convince us that they are safe and nurturing environments where our children will thrive?
 

When I’m even thinking about  these types of ‘what if’ questions, it makes me think that some of these the issues relating to speaking out or challenging ‘authority’ are pervasive not just when you’re in the schools, but in the whole genre/system. Maybe I’m thinking too much?

 

Also, this might be a whole other thread so apologies if it disrupts the current conversation.

If my dd was given the opportunity again to attend one of these 2 upper schools named she would definitely not or embark on a ballet journey at all. The mental and physical scars she has been left with are still a big struggle a couple of years later. 
This is our opinion and experience, others may vary. I would just consider very carefully. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Bellaboo

[LinMM]

So agree with your post Lindsay! 

A friend of mine’s daughter who was at a well known training school in Sydney in Australia was an early puberty developer the first in her class  and also had a growth spurt at 12 and she got some very unkind comments from teachers there at the time as she had been tiny before puberty. 

Schools definitely need to take a longer term view especially if the quality of dancing in a student is still developing too. 
 

[alison]

I'd like to say welcome to all the first-time posters in this thread: I just wish it could have been under happier circumstances.

 

Thank you to everyone who has posted so consideredly (if that is a word).  My heart goes out to all those who have been hurt and/or damaged by all this.

 

I'd also like to point out that - if you can take any more - there is a related programme on BBC Radio 4's File On Four this evening at 8 pm, or alternatively available on BBC Sounds:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qdt6

[mum5678]

31 minutes ago, Medora said:

But there will probably always be an upper limit for safety and also being able to dance the choreography as intended? You can move the cut off limit further up, and we will still end up with this exact debate at some stage. 

DS (who especially loves doing PDD) says he finds it's not necessarily about 'weight' but about the power behind their partner's initial jump and also about the way they hold themselves when lifted. He says a few kg really doesn't make much, if any, difference and there are often times when a dancer is a little heavier but is much easier to lift because of their own strength/power.

 

Interestingly, he too had comments from one teacher about his arm muscles being too big/bulgey and being banned from the gym in her fit of panic, yet also often complimented for being a good partner and strong/safe lifts (so much so that he was chosen to demonstrate lifts with the female teachers).... they really just can't win!

[Sim]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

I haven’t heard from any moderators yet about the removal of my post yesterday. As this was my main comment after seeing this programme perhaps the post could be returned with the removal of the young dancers Christian name I mentioned. 
Apologies to this young lady if she has felt identified by it. 
Many thanks 

Linda 

Hi Linda.  Apologies, but as you can imagine this thread has been keeping us very busy!  I have amended your post and it is now visible again.

[alison]

Yes, I wonder how well that is passed on.  I seem to remember some comments from Lauren Cuthbertson and Edward Watson in relation to their Romeo & Juliet debuts which seemed to imply that she hadn't been made aware that she needed to contribute when he was lugging her around "dead" in the crypt scene.

[Suffolkgal]

A few thoughts. Brave of these young people to speak. But as a journalist of some 40 years, that was one of the most biased pieces of reporting I have ever watched. You cannot just talk to one viewpoint ... however the schools may have chosen to respond I am sure some positive views from real people in person could have been sourced.

 

I have no doubt that behaviour happens as described and shame on the adults who perpetuate that behaviour. However... I think those teachers know the reality of getting and keeping a place in a leading classical ballet company. it’s a brutal art form let’s be honest. I am sure would be opera singers and orchestral players have similar tales - not of weight - but, you just ain’t going to cut it...

 

I could suggest we look at who creates most ballets these days. There needs to be more women. The same in fashion- this gamine look has been IT for decades. More than 100 years. But the fact remains however strong men can become - and lord they are strong - it’s a simple fact that they need to be able to lift and lift and lift and lift in the same pdd etc so need a reasonably light partner.

 

I just hope the system takes this on the chin and really improves the culture and not only on body shape.

 

Personally I’d much rather watch a woman who looks like a woman with curves and contours. It’s gone far to far the other way and some of the current dancers look much too skeletal. But until choreographers, ballet directors and teachers start thinking that way I fear nothing will change.

[Balleteveryday]

9 minutes ago, Bellaboo said:

If my dd was given the opportunity again to attend one of these 2 upper schools named she would definitely not or embark on a ballet journey at all. The mental and physical scars she has been left with are still a big struggle a couple of years later. 
This is our opinion and experience, others may vary. I would just consider very carefully. 

Thank you for passing this on. I appreciate and am listening to your and others voices on this. When it’s not people you know that have been affected it’s easier to be blinkered about it, but the closer it gets to us applying, the more people we do know who are going and who we have friendships with. I worry about them now too with the weight of mounting evidence and between your comment and that of so many more above. I’m going to need a lot of convincing that it’s the right thing to do if my child is successful and I think the schools do need to say and do something to ‘win’ and retain trust and reassure worried parents.

 

The girl in the programme who lost the principal role because of medication she was on (that was likely needed due to the circumstances created by the school) that meant she was unable to fit into the costume. Come on now….this is very easily solvable without having to shame that poor child. Some costumes may be historic and not adaptable, but that really does not mean there is no solution if she was the best dancer for the role. To me it just shows the lack of caring, lack of problem solving ability and a lack of desire to want to change practices and outdated views.

 

Thank you for your reply and I hope your daughter is able to move past the problems inflicted by others x

[Ballet_novice]

Here we are presented with 4 cases and make concluding remarks. How about the thousands of others with different experiences 

[Ballet_novice]

2 hours ago, oncnp said:

 

With due respect, just as the pervasive culture was true for you perhaps it was not true for the poster.  Just because their experience was different than yours does not make theirs less valid. 

 

Calling someone with a different point a view a liar just polarizes opinion more and makes resolution harder. 

 

 

 

Yes. But why the so called investigative journalism does not do a proper investigations and does not limit to 4 

[Lindsay]

2 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

Here we are presented with 4 cases and make concluding remarks. How about the thousands of others with different experiences 

It’s never the case that it’s alright to treat children (they are children) in a cruel and abusive manner just because it is a small percentage of students (which all of the comments here and elsewhere suggests that it is not).  The number of children cruelly treated by adult professionals into whose care they have been placed should be ZERO

[Lizbie1]

Setting aside the question of whether it's a valid theory, I'm a bit troubled by the suggestion raised several times above that the women don't need to be "thinner", it's the men who need to be stronger. Isn't this just transferring the potential for body-shaming to them?

[Anna C]

4 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

Yes. But why the so called investigative journalism does not do a proper investigations and does not limit to 4 

The programme makers spoke to around 50 former students. Not all of them may have been willing to appear on screen. The fact that  the resulting programme was only half an hour long does not mean that there was no “proper investigation”.

[LinMM]

Thanks for restoring post Sim! 

[meadowblythe]

1 hour ago, Doing Dance 1 said:

 

I can’t help but find this wording dangerous. 
You mentioned strenuous lifts for the men - totally valid. 

However, why should the women be thinner?
As is already being implemented across schools and companies, surely a solution to the ‘problem’ is for the men - and dancers broadly - to be stronger? 
 

 

 

Distorting men's body shape can be equally dangerous.  Strength work, which leads to bulking up also leads to injuries, partly because the boy is out of balance for the majority of their dancing, even if the lifts can be achieved.  Only time DS required surgery was under these circumstances.

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere core strength for both partners, not body mass, is one of the most significant factors for partnering.

 

Maybe a look at the tricks expected which seem to grow more extreme each year.

 

 

[Ondine]

3 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Isn't this just transferring the potential for body-shaming to them?

 

That thought crossed my mind too. 

 

 

[Anna C]

4 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Setting aside the question of whether it's a valid theory, I'm a bit troubled by the suggestion raised several times above that the women don't need to be "thinner", it's the men who need to be stronger. Isn't this just transferring the potential for body-shaming to them?

Possibly, but let’s remember that PdD work is not the only reason for teachers encouraging thinness and weight loss, nor is the body shaming limited to girls.  It’s just one element of one problem with our ballet schools.

[mum5678]

9 minutes ago, alison said:

Yes, I wonder how well that is passed on.  I seem to remember some comments from Lauren Cuthbertson and Edward Watson in relation to their Romeo & Juliet debuts which seemed to imply that she hadn't been made aware that she needed to contribute when he was lugging her around "dead" in the crypt scene.

Yes, this is an interesting one... DS sometimes talks about the occasional girls who just "don't seem to get that they have to jump too" whilst he's lifting, but often, as a male dancer, they can be partnered with older/more senior females who dismiss this (when they say something) as the male's error as the younger, less experienced dancer. When a teacher spots it they will often comment, but of course more common for male teachers to notice than female, given that they have experience from the male perspective. 

 

His yardstick is always to try the same move with a few other girls of differing shapes/sizes/styles and if it tends to be working with everyone else, he's usually fairly confident that it's a case of a little more input needed from the initial female partner! If it doesn't work with some of the others, he knows he needs to do something differently. 

 

He's a pretty good communicator and able to have fairly open conversations with almost all of his partners, and finds it really helpful when the female partner is happy to explain what makes them feel comfortable and safe, but every now and then there's the odd one who just doesn't give and inch! And of course, I'm sure it's the same the other way around too! 

[Jewel]

I actually think the programme was quite conservative and didn't cover the half of what goes on.

 

My child went to a school not featured.  If you had asked me when they were in Year 7-11 then I'd have said, no way, not at their school, they have things in place, it's not like that now.  I didn't know the half of it.  It was normalised so much the children didn't even bother to mention it.  When we did find out and when things got worse  and tried to first resolve things with the school (things actually got worse not better due to staffing changes) we were accused of being malicious complainants and threatened legally. Not what you want during A levels/grad year.

Our experience is very recent and although my child has now graduated I know that things are still ongoing from people who we are still in touch with.  

[Richard LH]

Whilst tending to be pretty slim and muscular due to the demands of their chosen careers, ladies in the top UK ballet companies, at least,  are certainly not all “stick-thin”, skeletal or flat-chested etc. Some take time out to have babies and then return to the stage.  When dancing they need to be very  careful of nutrition, which means eating enough of the correct foods, not just eating as little as possible because that would mean lacking sufficient strength and energy to perform.   Some students may need to lose a bit of weight; others may need to improve their diet or increase  their intake of some foods-  either way  this should be explained sensitively;  indeed the schools have specialist nutritionists for this.  This is the RBS's very detailed Nutrition Policy: https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Nutrition-Policy.pdf

which includes for example: “It is known that, along with many athletes, dancers are at greater risk of developing eating disorders and associated medical problems than the general population. Body composition is also an important component of physical fitness, vital in enabling dancers to train and reach their true potential. Dancers who fall above or below the recommended norms may be putting their health at risk as well as limiting their career”.

And: “A person with an eating disorder commonly has fears about being ‘fat’ and fears about their shape: the mind of an anorexic shows them as ‘fat’ when they look in the mirror when others see them as a virtual skeleton. They usually believe that the more weight they lose the closer they come to being worthwhile. If challenged, they deny that they have a problem and refuse to believe they are dangerously thin. They are unable to accept rational argument around their eating habits and weight”.

“Any single symptom could have an explanation, but recurring patterns are a cause for concern. Members of staff should always report concerns to the Director or the Ballet Principal. Individual members of staff should not discuss questions of weight, diet or medication with students, nor should there be general discussion of any issues related to this protocol”.

So I don’t understand the reports of some teachers  suggesting, or implying, in their remarks to students,  that excessive weight loss is the way certain students will improve as dancers, or be able to have a ballet career, such that those students feel they must keep on losing weight to a dangerous and  unacceptable  extent. Any such remark goes entirely against all that is set out in the above Policy, and the obvious facts in terms of the actual body shapes of dancers who do make it professionally.  It is unfortunate, therefore, that  the programme did not include any interviews with teachers or school nutritionists in response or in further explanation. The schools (at least as reported) only seem to have put out what came across as fairly generalised  and bland statements, without  being able (understandably I suppose, especially with a legal case pending) to respond to the various individual  cases.

However the RBS had an Ofsted report in 2014 https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/2433869

The identified  concern at that time was proper checking and monitoring of staff recruitment and vetting, which was falling short. (This appears to have been addressed by 2016 according to the published report from a later unannounced visit  by the Independent Schools Inspectorate). Otherwise the report appears positive, and in terms of the issues most immediately relevant to the current discussion, Ofsted reported for example:

“The school’s behaviour policy is implemented consistently and fairly. All students behave impeccably. Behaviour and relationships between students and with staff are excellent. Case studies of the most vulnerable students show the school’s sensitive yet robust approach to students’ emotional needs. Weekly network meetings between health professionals and staff carefully coordinate agreed support and care for identified students”.

“An effective anti-bullying policy is in place. Awareness of bullying in all its forms is a high priority through the curriculum, students’ weekly house meetings and the student council. The new leadership team ensure that, in this high-intensity training environment, staff are well briefed about teaching classes designed to really push students yet maintain a balance of criticism and support. Students say teachers rightly expect and insist on the highest standards of performance and commitment, as befits a school of this nature. However students also feel well supported and respected. No bullying by staff was reported to inspectors”.

More up to date (Oct 2022) is the following very positive report from the Independent Schools Inspectorate, a link to which can be found here: https://www.isi.net/school/the-royal-ballet-school-7171

This includes for example:

“Pupils exhibit a very strong awareness of the importance of physical and mental wellbeing. They describe the importance of balancing rigorous physical demands, being physically strong and mentally agile, with the need for good nutritional balance. They know the actions they must take to be healthy, as well as decisions that may cause them harm. Pupils appreciate the support they receive on diet and nutrition, mental health, dealing with injuries and rehabilitation through regular weekly meetings with a specialist team of health professionals….”.

“An overwhelming majority of parents and pupils who responded to the questionnaire  conveyed the view that the school is a safe place to be and that is safeguards the children effectively”.

Similarly Elmhurst had an “outstanding” Ofsted report in 2015: https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/2527673 

and the ISI gave them an excellent report in  February2022     https://www.elmhurstballetschool.org/media/downloads/elmhursteqiisireportfebruary2022.pdf

In the effective absence in the programme, of “the other side of the story” in the sort of detail  suggested by these inspection reports, I am wondering how balanced the BBC have been here.

[capybara]

Oh, Richard, I was in the process of searching for the very same material. Thank you for getting there first.

I came across one other which is dated 2018 and relates only to 'compliance'. I'm not sure that the link will work but here it is:

https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Royal-Ballet-RCI-Report-v5-2018-05-15.pdf

 

Edited to add that this link works for me.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by capybara

[Sim]

From today's Links (thank you Ian), a description of the current care being taken at the RBS around nutrition and pastoral care:

 

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/how-the-royal-ballet-school-supports-student-with-its-healthy-dancer-programme/

 

 

[Anna C]

Richard, thank you for providing that information.  All I would point out is this:

 

1. That just because “no bullying was reported to inspectors”, it doesn’t automatically follow that none took place.  
 

2. That a school can have all the policies in the world, but it doesn’t mean they follow those policies to the letter.

 

3. Sometimes, it’s not what is or isn’t said that’s the problem.  As one of the young women featured on the programme said, it’s the “coded messages” that are often the problem.  The little comments here and there, that seep into the recipient’s subconscious but pass other people by.  Sometimes, it’s not as obvious as being audibly or visibly bullied; being ignored and given no corrections at all is equally as upsetting and worrying to a dance student as being picked on.

 

There’s a reason Emotional Abuse and bullying is sometimes called “death by a thousand cuts”, or Boiling Frog Syndrome.  It’s subtle.  It’s insidious.  Often, people can’t even identify the problem until it’s too late.  And if, as a child or teenager, you think you’re the problem (too fat/too heavy/too unfit/not committed enough/not good enough etc), you internalise that.

 

What are you going to tell an OFSTED/ISI Inspector?  Nothing.  Nothing bad, certainly.

[Out-the-other-side]

59 minutes ago, Ballet_novice said:

Here we are presented with 4 cases and make concluding remarks. How about the thousands of others with different experiences 

Panorama interviewed 50. If you listen  to the radio 4 programme, Terry Hyde is interviewed who has supported many more. Luke Jennings has experience of countless others. This is prevalent and damaging. 

[Peanut68]

49 minutes ago, meadowblythe said:

 

Distorting men's body shape can be equally dangerous.  Strength work, which leads to bulking up also leads to injuries, partly because the boy is out of balance for the majority of their dancing, even if the lifts can be achieved.  Only time DS required surgery was under these circumstances.

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere core strength for both partners, not body mass, is one of the most significant factors for partnering.

 

Maybe a look at the tricks expected which seem to grow more extreme each year.

 

 

Totally agree - it really does also put a weight (no pun intended) of responsibility onto the shoulders of directors/casting directors/choreographers/

teachers in school settings as it’s about having the appropriate bodies paired to ensure safe, effective & beautiful reproduction time after time of the dance steps & lifts. Not simply pairing this person with that based on fame/box office appeal/favourites etc etc 

That’s surely where the tradition (now less obvious?) of regular pairings came about? They danced brilliantly together because they were well matched to being out best in each other! 
 

would just like to add how I’m troubled at some rather strident comments in defence of institutions with no mention as to their qualification to be commenting & almost trying to negate the programmes relevance (student? parent? Teacher? Part of said institution? Ever hopeful of getting a pupil/offspring into said institutions? )

Edited September 12, 2023 by Peanut68

[DancerFifi]

43 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Whilst tending to be pretty slim and muscular due to the demands of their chosen careers, ladies in the top UK ballet companies, at least,  are certainly not all “stick-thin”, skeletal or flat-chested etc. Some take time out to have babies and then return to the stage.  When dancing they need to be very  careful of nutrition, which means eating enough of the correct foods, not just eating as little as possible because that would mean lacking sufficient strength and energy to perform.   Some students may need to lose a bit of weight; others may need to improve their diet or increase  their intake of some foods-  either way  this should be explained sensitively;  indeed the schools have specialist nutritionists for this.  This is the RBS's very detailed Nutrition Policy: https://www.royalballetschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Nutrition-Policy.pdf

which includes for example: “It is known that, along with many athletes, dancers are at greater risk of developing eating disorders and associated medical problems than the general population. Body composition is also an important component of physical fitness, vital in enabling dancers to train and reach their true potential. Dancers who fall above or below the recommended norms may be putting their health at risk as well as limiting their career”.

And: “A person with an eating disorder commonly has fears about being ‘fat’ and fears about their shape: the mind of an anorexic shows them as ‘fat’ when they look in the mirror when others see them as a virtual skeleton. They usually believe that the more weight they lose the closer they come to being worthwhile. If challenged, they deny that they have a problem and refuse to believe they are dangerously thin. They are unable to accept rational argument around their eating habits and weight”.

“Any single symptom could have an explanation, but recurring patterns are a cause for concern. Members of staff should always report concerns to the Director or the Ballet Principal. Individual members of staff should not discuss questions of weight, diet or medication with students, nor should there be general discussion of any issues related to this protocol”.

So I don’t understand the reports of some teachers  suggesting, or implying, in their remarks to students,  that excessive weight loss is the way certain students will improve as dancers, or be able to have a ballet career, such that those students feel they must keep on losing weight to a dangerous and  unacceptable  extent. Any such remark goes entirely against all that is set out in the above Policy, and the obvious facts in terms of the actual body shapes of dancers who do make it professionally.  It is unfortunate, therefore, that  the programme did not include any interviews with teachers or school nutritionists in response or in further explanation. The schools (at least as reported) only seem to have put out what came across as fairly generalised  and bland statements, without  being able (understandably I suppose, especially with a legal case pending) to respond to the various individual  cases.

However the RBS had an Ofsted report in 2014 https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/2433869

The identified  concern at that time was proper checking and monitoring of staff recruitment and vetting, which was falling short. (This appears to have been addressed by 2016 according to the published report from a later unannounced visit  by the Independent Schools Inspectorate). Otherwise the report appears positive, and in terms of the issues most immediately relevant to the current discussion, Ofsted reported for example:

“The school’s behaviour policy is implemented consistently and fairly. All students behave impeccably. Behaviour and relationships between students and with staff are excellent. Case studies of the most vulnerable students show the school’s sensitive yet robust approach to students’ emotional needs. Weekly network meetings between health professionals and staff carefully coordinate agreed support and care for identified students”.

“An effective anti-bullying policy is in place. Awareness of bullying in all its forms is a high priority through the curriculum, students’ weekly house meetings and the student council. The new leadership team ensure that, in this high-intensity training environment, staff are well briefed about teaching classes designed to really push students yet maintain a balance of criticism and support. Students say teachers rightly expect and insist on the highest standards of performance and commitment, as befits a school of this nature. However students also feel well supported and respected. No bullying by staff was reported to inspectors”.

More up to date (Oct 2022) is the following very positive report from the Independent Schools Inspectorate, a link to which can be found here: https://www.isi.net/school/the-royal-ballet-school-7171

This includes for example:

“Pupils exhibit a very strong awareness of the importance of physical and mental wellbeing. They describe the importance of balancing rigorous physical demands, being physically strong and mentally agile, with the need for good nutritional balance. They know the actions they must take to be healthy, as well as decisions that may cause them harm. Pupils appreciate the support they receive on diet and nutrition, mental health, dealing with injuries and rehabilitation through regular weekly meetings with a specialist team of health professionals….”.

“An overwhelming majority of parents and pupils who responded to the questionnaire  conveyed the view that the school is a safe place to be and that is safeguards the children effectively”.

Similarly Elmhurst had an “outstanding” Ofsted report in 2015: https://files.ofsted.gov.uk/v1/file/2527673 

and the ISI gave them an excellent report in  February2022     https://www.elmhurstballetschool.org/media/downloads/elmhursteqiisireportfebruary2022.pdf

In the effective absence in the programme, of “the other side of the story” in the sort of detail  suggested by these inspection reports, I am wondering how balanced the BBC have been here.

I appreciate your trying to show the other side of the story but I’d like to point out that It appears Ofsted reports are as accurate as the weather forecast. As a former teacher at several different schools and as a parent I have witness how firstly schools put on a performance for Ofsted as they already get several days notice of their visits and quite often the picture Ofsted paint of the school reflects what the school themselves want it to be not what is actually going on! The schools can have policies which all look great on paper and Ofsted praise them for this but Ofsted only go by what the school show them and tell them! Ofsted do not investigate any bullying and appear to generally turn a blind eye to it, at one school 50 parents reported bullying directly to Ofsted inspectors yet Ofsted report said as it say here “no bullying was reported” and 60% of the parents at this school said they didn’t feel their child was safe at the school yet the school came way with an “good” rating! Another example of smoke and mirrors and more evidence of a corrupt system. The schools get away with doing exactly what they want because Ofsted and the Department for Education generally turn a blind eye to it all as I have experienced this first hand! Remember actions speak louder than words! 
 

Anyone who is brave enough to speak out about these things just gets subjected to more bullying and is stamped on and ultimately got rid of. The whole time they have the threat of the loss of their career hanging over their head! 

Edited September 12, 2023 by DancerFifi

[Mummy twinkle toes]

2 hours ago, Ondine said:

 Unless of course they have a  different perspective  on those cases, different recollections. I believe this was mentioned. It wasn't 'balanced' in the sense that each case could be refuted in detail. 

 

How can they refute these stories? Several of the girls ended up hospitalised after comments from the teachers. You could argue the teacher didn’t intend the consequence but they should not have made derogatory comments in the first place. Then same teacher praising them for losing an excessive amount of weight so that teacher knew what was happening.

 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

8 minutes ago, Anna C said:

Richard, thank you for providing that information.  All I would point out is this:

 

1. That just because “no bullying was reported to inspectors”, it doesn’t automatically follow that none took place.  
 

2. That a school can have all the policies in the world, but it doesn’t mean they follow those policies to the letter.

 

3. Sometimes, it’s not what is or isn’t said that’s the problem.  As one of the young women featured on the programme said, it’s the “coded messages” that are often the problem.  The little comments here and there, that seep into the recipient’s subconscious but pass other people by.  Sometimes, it’s not as obvious as being audibly or visibly bullied; being ignored and given no corrections at all is equally as upsetting and worrying to a dance student as being picked on.

 

There’s a reason Emotional Abuse and bullying is sometimes called “death by a thousand cuts”, or Boiling Frog Syndrome.  It’s subtle.  It’s insidious.  Often, people can’t even identify the problem until it’s too late.  And if, as a child or teenager, you think you’re the problem (too fat/too heavy/too unfit/not committed enough/not good enough etc), you internalise that.

 

What are you going to tell an OFSTED/ISI Inspector?  Nothing.  Nothing bad, certainly.

Exactly this about policies. All schools are required to have certain policies and often they are required to have these publicly available by law or by regulatory bodies for various reasons including to continue to receive funding or be able to operate. I’m not sure how these specific inspections work as I don’t have experience in that sector but have been part of and privy to a few other inspections often with good notice to institutions and often initially starting with a desk-based exercise of documents available. It shouldn’t be a surprise that schools would have all these policies and regulations in place. What I would look at is: how updated are they and are they still fit for purpose? More importantly, are they actually being implemented? I can already see that one of those policies linked is almost a decade old and only updated once two years after since then. Covid has delayed a lot of OFSTED inspections so that might be excused. 

[Peanut68]

Well said dancerfifi!

also we as parents (I shamefully admit guilt here) often think twice about reporting direct to school authority or to ofsted even when emailed pre-visits to do so. Apathy? Partly? Previously being burnt? Yes - seeing others go to effort to see no change & to then feel wrought with anxiety… worry that putting head above parapet might see kids be treated badly as a result? Have funding removed etc? Oh yes. And absolutely I speak 100% from personal experience 

[LinMM]

Not making any excuses but in recent years Ofsted inspections have changed a little. 
I think most these days only give 24-48 hours notice and go into schools looking only at specific things. So very hard to update lapsed policies with that sort of notice!! This has resulted in schools being rated as “inadequate” for very often the failure of one policy….as was in the News only recently. 
Gone are the days when schools went a little crazy with at least a months notice of an Ofsted inspection!! 
Having said that I think it’s still hard for teachers/parents/ students to speak truth to power. 
 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

7 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Not making any excuses but in recent years Ofsted inspections have changed a little. 
I think most these days only give 24-48 hours notice and go into schools looking only at specific things. So very hard to update lapsed policies with that sort of notice!! This has resulted in schools being rated as “inadequate” for very often the failure of one policy….as was in the News only recently. 
Gone are the days when schools went a little crazy with at least a months notice of an Ofsted inspection!! 
Having said that I think it’s still hard for teachers/parents/ students to speak truth to power. 
 

Ah but policies and regulations and their implementation should be reviewed and updated regularly (if not annually, for some), not just when there’s an inspection looming. I think this is why a lot of institutions and companies get into trouble. And record keeping practices, amongst other things, when it comes to inspections.