The "new" Royal Opera House, Covent Garden

[Beryl H]

Lots of good names for the new café area: Stansted Airport, Euston concourse, staff canteen, rubbishy cafeteria, I've probably missed some!

 

[Thalia]

26 minutes ago, Beryl H said:

Lots of good names for the new café area: Stansted Airport, Euston concourse, staff canteen, rubbishy cafeteria, I've probably missed some!

 

 

My regular ballet-going friend and I refer to it as Westfield (it has that shopping centre soul-sucking quality to its ambience and, like Westfield, you can have a glass of champers while sat in the middle of the thoroughfare) or the caff. 🤣  I feel a bit bad referring to it as the caff, though, as there are plenty of decent eateries of that variety which I’d rather frequent for refreshment. 

[Jane S]

Hmm   a bit of care needed here, perhaps? It's all very well slagging off the new development here, but imagine you're a newcomer who's ventured in for a first look - and is beginning to feel that the ROH is actually quite relaxed and not that different from places you often use - and you overhear a remark like the one mentioned above  - "this rubbishy cafeteria" - and by extension, you might easily think this implies "and the rubbishy people who are using it" and decide at the very least that some of the audience are indeed as snobbish as you've heard, and perhaps go further and think that despite all the publicity, people who use Westfield etc are not welcome here?

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, Jane S said:

Hmm   a bit of care needed here, perhaps? It's all very well slagging off the new development here, but imagine you're a newcomer who's ventured in for a first look - and is beginning to feel that the ROH is actually quite relaxed and not that different from places you often use - and you overhear a remark like the one mentioned above  - "this rubbishy cafeteria" - and by extension, you might easily think this implies "and the rubbishy people who are using it" and decide at the very least that some of the audience are indeed as snobbish as you've heard, and perhaps go further and think that despite all the publicity, people who use Westfield etc are not welcome here?

 

Well yes - I think you always need to be careful/sensitive about what you say in the hearing of others; that's always true everywhere. If others are enjoying themselves or enjoying new experiences a degree of tact and sensitivity is needed and any criticism should be made in an appropriate way.

 

[Dawnstar]

58 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

Well yes - I think you always need to be careful/sensitive about what you say in the hearing of others; that's always true everywhere. If others are enjoying themselves or enjoying new experiences a degree of tact and sensitivity is needed and any criticism should be made in an appropriate way.

 

 

This reminds me of when I was at the ROH a few years ago seeing the McVicar Nozze Di Figaro production & 2 audience members near me were discussing the same director's Faust. One of them said "It was like a musical", with the tone of voice implying there could be no greater insult! As someone who enjoys both opera and musicals I was amused at the time (though I do sometimes feel guilty that I enjoy "lower" as well as "higher" brow forms of theatre, but that's another discussion).

[Thalia]

3 hours ago, Jane S said:

Hmm   a bit of care needed here, perhaps? It's all very well slagging off the new development here, but imagine you're a newcomer who's ventured in for a first look - and is beginning to feel that the ROH is actually quite relaxed and not that different from places you often use - and you overhear a remark like the one mentioned above  - "this rubbishy cafeteria" - and by extension, you might easily think this implies "and the rubbishy people who are using it" and decide at the very least that some of the audience are indeed as snobbish as you've heard, and perhaps go further and think that despite all the publicity, people who use Westfield etc are not welcome here?

 

Well, my friend and I would never say that out loud in the ROH so no worries there. 😊  Besides, anyone who hears us talking will just have to hear our accents and they may well be the ones having the snobbish reaction! 

As for the ground floor, I just feel that some music or something to lift the deadened feeling in there would go some way in helping improve the atmosphere. I’ve always felt the ROH is very relaxed and I’m probably the type of demographic they are after as part of Open Up. It’s just that I discovered the place years ago and I’ve already been reeled in. 

 

[Lizbie1]

Leaving aside the ACE-driven agenda, I think the image they'd in their hearts like to project and the crowd they'd like to attract (and by "they" I mean the high-ups and PR and marketing people, not the staff, who I find unfailingly courteous and helpful) isn't to do with money or class or accent; it's about being metropolitan and sophisticated and fashionable - people like themselves, really. 

[Blossom]

The downstairs cafe is bright, open and relaxed and a nice contrast with the opulent and traditional areas of the building. The design works well as a lead in up the ‘new’ stairs to the Paul Hamlyn and downstairs to the Linbury foyer. The coffee is really good and they offer more than one kind of gluten free cake which makes me very happy indeed. It’s also nice to have somewhere to sit - the seating area has been well thought out, as has the outdoor/indoor terrace on the amphi level. 

 

There has been a lot of negativity about these new areas, but personally, as a frequent visitor for performances and other events, it’s lovely to have parts of the building which are a bit more low key but still part of the experience- and more in keeping with the more premium look and feel of the building overall. It’s a place where people would actually choose to go for an informal coffee etc pre performance and increase their spend with the opera house (surely the point) rather than visit somewhere else en route. 

 

To the moderators - we are coming to the close of the year and we have 26 pages of mostly (repetitive) moans about something which is unlikely to change. Perhaps except for the beige carpet on 5 on which there seems to be unanimous opinion 😂. Time to bring this thread to a close and get back to focusing on why we are all coming to the ROH in the first place rather than what is becoming a rather draining circle of negativity?

[penelopesimpson]

13 minutes ago, Blossom said:

The downstairs cafe is bright, open and relaxed and a nice contrast with the opulent and traditional areas of the building. The design works well as a lead in up the ‘new’ stairs to the Paul Hamlyn and downstairs to the Linbury foyer. The coffee is really good and they offer more than one kind of gluten free cake which makes me very happy indeed. It’s also nice to have somewhere to sit - the seating area has been well thought out, as has the outdoor/indoor terrace on the amphi level. 

 

There has been a lot of negativity about these new areas, but personally, as a frequent visitor for performances and other events, it’s lovely to have parts of the building which are a bit more low key but still part of the experience- and more in keeping with the more premium look and feel of the building overall. It’s a place where people would actually choose to go for an informal coffee etc pre performance and increase their spend with the opera house (surely the point) rather than visit somewhere else en route. 

 

To the moderators - we are coming to the close of the year and we have 26 pages of mostly (repetitive) moans about something which is unlikely to change. Perhaps except for the beige carpet on 5 on which there seems to be unanimous opinion 😂. Time to bring this thread to a close and get back to focusing on why we are all coming to the ROH in the first place rather than what is becoming a rather draining circle of negativity?

I am glad you like the new area Blossom, but many of us do not.  What you classify as negativity is, for others, simply an expression of their viewpoint which is the purpose of this forum.

 

Speaking solely for myself, ROH is and has been an important part of my life and I wish to continue to express how I feel about changes made to this Internationally esteemed and partially publicly funded building.  The original re-development was, for me,  a marvellous thing that enhanced the magic of opera and ballet and created an Opera House that made people gasp at its beauty.  It is in this context that I have registered my distress and disappointment at the banality of recent rebuilding which has producing little of importance .  Low-key coffee houses doubtless have their place, but I question whether creating yet another such facility in an area already wash with such establishments, was the best way to spend millions of pounds.  If ROH is expecting to fill its coffers from its new cafeteria, I can only say that it will have to sell an awful lot of coffees.

 

If you find this discussion 'draining,' then perhaps best move to another thread rather than asking that an important discussion topic be shut down because you disagree with the majority viewpoint.

 

[JennyTaylor]

I've been reading this for a long time (26 pages) and was never quite sure of my reaction because I have now been to the ROH on many occasions since open up and my views tend to change with the context of my visits. 

Firstly, if the new downstairs area is low key or airport lounge - then it's still very expensive if you buy food or drink there. That being said, you don't have to - you can take your own. 

 

I like the fact that there are more seats available, so I can get there earlier than the 6pm opening time for an evening performance and have somewhere to sit, plus if I go to 2 performances on a Saturday, I don't need to wander the streets in between, I can just stay where I am. Much more comfortable and relaxed. 

 

I don't think downstairs (airport lounge) has any ambience at all, so doesn't represent ROH at all. The question is - does that matter. Personally, I could not see how it could attract anyone to actually buy tickets - if you can find the booking office.  

 

If I want ambience and how I always used to feel when I visit the ROH, then I go upstairs to the Paul Hamlyn Bar and enjoy it here, as I have always done. I accept the high prices (my choice) here although of course, you can still bring your own.   For me, it's part of going to the ROH but I do take my own crisps/ chocolate instead of buying everything.  In the new world, it's still a question of what time you need to get there to get a seat:  6pm is the latest time I leave it for safety. 

 

I haven't made it upstairs and outside yet although this used to be a favourite place of mine whatever the weather. 

 

So, I think the specialness is still there for me, but you have to get there early to enjoy it. 

[JohnS]

It strikes me that this is very much a live, legitimate topic for discussion.  Open Up is new and there are a number of teething problems.  I think the debate has flagged up a lot of concerns and also some undoubted successes eg the Nutcracker cinema relay on opening night and the on line cast sheet (but only for that performance).  I like a lot of Open Up but I do think there would be considerable benefits from some marginal changes, largely to emphasise the Royal Opera House’s raison d'être - the fabulous Opera and Ballet it stages so frequently.

 

I think this is particularly relevant in the new reception ‘airport lounge’ which cries out for fronting the Royal Opera House’s product - why not include screens showing DVDs?  It seems wrong to me that the area can be dismissed as ‘not representing the ROH at all’ as Jenny Taylor states above and many others have shared that opinion in earlier posts.  A little imagination could make a real difference.

 

Open Up has also coincided with changes to cast sheets, notifications of cast changes and a redesigned website.  There have clearly been teething problems with the website and hopefully things will be sorted.  It’s frustrating that what seemed to be an effective website has been replaced with something which has had reduced functionality although I do like the look of the new front pages.  There’s also a concern that the Royal Opera House is choosing to rely on Twitter/Facebook etc for its communications and there is a risk that the website is losing its importance, despite the fact that most ticket sales are generated on line (but I agree there’s a need to locate the Box Office in the building - the staff provide real expertise and its location would help highlight the OpeacHouse’s purpose).  Casting information has been confused, late, missing and changes known about for months have not been processed - leave of absence given to dancers for Cats etc.  Change of cast slips have been made less accessible and new systems have not been popular with some.  

 

A solution to some of the criticism would be if the Royal Opera House updated its casting details post performance so that anyone wanting to find information on the cast they saw would be able to do so.  This was of course done brilliantly for the Nutcracker live relay but this is very much the exception.  There have been assurances that the Royal Opera House is seeking to provide historic information on performances as there’s a bit of a gap at present so why not put systems in place to meet the excellence of that Nutcracker casting so that at least going forward the detailed information is there and on going work can fill in the gaps?  I’d expect that level of detail to be part of the Royal Opera House’s corporate information in any event so why not share it with audiences?  The website might also provide a solution to the decision to include only the sketchiest of synopses on the slimmed down cast list.  Why not include the fuller synopses on line?  And if the Royal OperaHouse is wanting to Open Up and reduce paper etc, why not make digital programmes available for all productions, not just cinema relays?  Not that I want people to be reading their digital programmes when the house lights are dimming.

 

It is very unclear what the policy is as regards people consuming their own food/drink and where (if anywhere) this is accepted.  Some posts have referred to discreet notices being placed on tables (but I’m not sure whether that is limited to certain areas).  It strikes me as odd that the Royal Opera House should provide a public space for people to eat their food, make use of their facilities (including left luggage), but not attend a performance nor even be exposed to the Royal Opera House’s products.  And why should a franchisee providing catering facilities find the tables are being taken by people consuming their own food etc?  Perhaps that’s part of the contract but does the pattern of purchase/bring your own food etc match expectations?  It would be much better if there were a clearly stated policy which was enforced as regards people consuming their own food/drink.  It may be that the Royal Opera House does want to provide such an area (and it’s not that long ago that many people picnicked on the staircases) but given the range of catering facilities surely a public picnic area should be very clearly defined and there would be no repetition of people eating takeaways by the crush room.

 

Finally Open Up has also coincided with desperately unhelpful marketing exercises and real concern about pricing policy.  I do think the Baker Richards consultancy was poor, both in the analysis provided and in its handling (or perhaps in letting Baker Richards handle its own publicity in its ‘advertorial’).  The Chairman’s Evening Standard article was also very mixed and has produced a sharp backlash - much more sensitivity is required when considering the merits of increasing prices for relatively cheap seats.  It will be very interesting to see what impact pricing changes have had on the proportion of tickets sold for less than £30, £40 and £50, information on which has been included in past annual reports.  Open Up and accessibility must mean ensuring a reasonable proportion of tickets are sold at these lower prices.  I fear that there will be a marked decrease in the proportions sold compared to the latest report (2016-17):

31% of tickets at £30 or less
38% of tickets at £40 or less

47% of tickets at £50 or less

20,900+ attended a subsidized performance with low-cost tickets for families and schools

The 20,900 accounts for 3% of all attendance and I hope they were not included in the percentages of tickets at £x or less as I think that should be a measure of tickets that were available for the general public (even if many seats were sold prior to general public booking opening).

 

I understand that Royal Opera staff do look at this Forum and whilst it’s good to contact the Royal Opera House direct, ongoing discussion of reactions to Open Up, both positive, negative and suggestions for improvement, may provide helpful feedback. 

 

In summary suggestions for the Royal Opera House are:

Publicise your Opera and Ballet performances in all Open Up areas with conviction

Make the most of your website

Bring the Box Office into the Open Up area

Be clear about consumption of own food/drink and enforce your policy

Ensure your pricing policy promotes accessibility and complements Open Up

[zxDaveM]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

 

In summary suggestions for the Royal Opera House are:

Publicise your Opera and Ballet performances in all Open Up areas with conviction

Make the most of your website

Bring the Box Office into the Open Up area

Be clear about consumption of own food/drink and enforce your policy

Ensure your pricing policy promotes accessibility and complements Open Up

 

neatly put

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

31% of tickets at £30 or less
38% of tickets at £40 or less

47% of tickets at £50 or less

20,900+ attended a subsidized performance with low-cost tickets for families and schools

The 20,900 accounts for 3% of all attendance and I hope they were not included in the percentages of tickets at £x or less as I think that should be a measure of tickets that were available for the general public (even if many seats were sold prior to general public booking opening).

 

I suspect, JohnS, that the subsidized attendees are included in the"'less (than}" percentages but has anyone asked for this to be confirmed?

[JohnS]

6 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

 

I suspect, JohnS, that the subsidized attendees are included in the"'less (than}" percentages but has anyone asked for this to be confirmed?

 

Many thanks Scheherazade - I haven’t but I will ask.  

It just struck me today that a reader of the report might well assume that a measure of accessibility would be based on seats available for public booking or at least the Annual Report should make clear the basis of measurement and whether it incorporates subsidised performances which are not available for general public booking.  The Annual Report refers to tickets being ‘priced at £x or less’ and I have no knowledge of schools matinee/Paul Hamlyn ticket arrangements.

[ninamargaret]

Just a comment about pricing. I am unable to make as many visits to the ROH for ballet as I would like to for financial and mobility problems. I also prefer, on my visits, to have a SC seat, for which I have usually paid around £70 for a full length ballet. I recently booked to see Naghdi/Ball in R and J as part of a package and paid an eye watering £95. This seat would now cost £106 if bought outside the package. So I can only afford one visit to R and J, much as I wanted to see at least one other cast. So the price increases seem to have affected most seats, and it looks as though they will soon only get an audience consisting of the very well heeled - suppose this is just what they want?

[Sim]

5 minutes ago, ninamargaret said:

Just a comment about pricing. I am unable to make as many visits to the ROH for ballet as I would like to for financial and mobility problems. I also prefer, on my visits, to have a SC seat, for which I have usually paid around £70 for a full length ballet. I recently booked to see Naghdi/Ball in R and J as part of a package and paid an eye watering £95. This seat would now cost £106 if bought outside the package. So I can only afford one visit to R and J, much as I wanted to see at least one other cast. So the price increases seem to have affected most seats, and it looks as though they will soon only get an audience consisting of the very well heeled - suppose this is just what they want?

Just the opposite of trying to avoid elitism.....it looks to me like the 'elitism avoidance' pertains to building access only.  So, anyone can now enter the building, bring their picnics and drinks, use the wifi and the toilets, then leave because many of them won't be able to afford the tickets, especially if they want to treat themselves to a decent seat.  That is, if they can find the box office.  However, with the new price  hikes, entrance to the auditorium itself risks becoming more elitist than ever.  There are still good deals to be had (i.e. standing tickets, side amphi, upper amphi standing, slips), but even these prices have just increased a lot.  I wonder who all these new young people are who they are trying to target (at the expense of the regulars' attendance) who can afford to pay these prices when they are all struggling with rents, saving for mortgage deposits, etc.?  

[Mary]

Well said, JohnS.

We all need an honestly critical friend occasionally and the ROH needs its real friends to speak up when things don't go right.

 

 

[ninamargaret]

And no help is given to members of the audience who cannot cope, because of age or disability, with seats in, say,the amphi or elsewhere. I know all about the Access list which will help to identify suitable seats, but no financial help is given unless the person booking in receiving benefit, in which case they would be unlikely to be able to shell out £130 for a ticket. Other subsidised theatres manage to offer help- why not the ROH? Both the RSC and National do far more in this respect.

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

Just the opposite of trying to avoid elitism.....it looks to me like the 'elitism avoidance' pertains to building access only.  So, anyone can now enter the building, bring their picnics and drinks, use the wifi and the toilets, then leave because many of them won't be able to afford the tickets, especially if they want to treat themselves to a decent seat.  That is, if they can find the box office.  However, with the new price  hikes, entrance to the auditorium itself risks becoming more elitist than ever.  There are still good deals to be had (i.e. standing tickets, side amphi, upper amphi standing, slips), but even these prices have just increased a lot.  I wonder who all these new young people are who they are trying to target (at the expense of the regulars' attendance) who can afford to pay these prices when they are all struggling with rents, saving for mortgage deposits, etc.?  

And, Sim the blithe assumption that all trendy young people WANT to see opera or ballet and have hitherto only been deterred by what the Chairman calls elitism.  This does not chime with young people of my acquaintance who are bursting with self confidence and if they wanted to visit somewhere they certainly wouldn’t be put off by other attendees.  Perhaps the marketing department felt it would be nice for people to come in and watch the elite at play - subsidised voyeurism.

 

i have come to the conclusion that ROH has no clear idea what Open-Up is meant to be about.  The aesthetics are obviously subjective but I’ve yet to hear anyone go into raptures about the beauty/audaciousness/distinctive design used in the redevelopment.  Like the Chairman’s statements it seems muddled.  If the best that can be said is to describe the new facility as a low-key coffee area, somebody somewhere should be asking why an International Opera  House considers this its remit.

Edited December 27, 2018 by penelopesimpson

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Mary said:

Well said, JohnS.

We all need an honestly critical friend occasionally and the ROH needs its real friends to speak up when things don't go right.

 

Which is exactly what I did upthread but, apparently, absolutely nobody agreed!

 

[JohnS]

14 hours ago, ninamargaret said:

And no help is given to members of the audience who cannot cope, because of age or disability, with seats in, say,the amphi or elsewhere. I know all about the Access list which will help to identify suitable seats, but no financial help is given unless the person booking in receiving benefit, in which case they would be unlikely to be able to shell out £130 for a ticket. Other subsidised theatres manage to offer help- why not the ROH? Both the RSC and National do far more in this respect.

 

I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties in finding reasonably priced accessible seats ninamargaret.  I’m very impressed with the single aisle seats in the central block of the Balcony which are massively discounted compared to the neighbouring seats because of the safety rails (which didn’t seem to affect my view for the Ring).  I was just checking current availability and for example Romeo & Juliet 10 April Cuthbertson/Ball B34 is £85 whereas B35 is £124 - I haven’t looked at any other performances but there seem to be plenty of tickets for most performances.  I haven’t tried these seats for ballet but have booked some seats in the Spring in an attempt to balance my budget.  I don’t know if the seats would be appropriate but perhaps the aisle location may help?

[Bluebird]

42 minutes ago, JohnS said:

 

I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties in finding reasonably priced accessible seats ninamargaret.  I’m very impressed with the single aisle seats in the central block of the Balcony which are massively discounted compared to the neighbouring seats because of the safety rails (which didn’t seem to affect my view for the Ring).  I was just checking current availability and for example Romeo & Juliet 10 April Cuthbertson/Ball B34 is £85 whereas B35 is £124 - I haven’t looked at any other performances but there seem to be plenty of tickets for most performances.  I haven’t tried these seats for ballet but have booked some seats in the Spring in an attempt to balance my budget.  I don’t know if the seats would be appropriate but perhaps the aisle location may help?

 

The restricted view aisle seats in the Balcony, row B centre block, are far more restricted than those in row A. I've only sat there for ballet rehearsals but, in my experience,  in rows B and C, the safety rail  does restrict the view  whereas, in row A, you barely notice the restriction.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Bluebird

[JohnS]

Thanks Bluebird - I’ve only sat in Row A but I see there are still Row A seats for a number of Romeo & Juliet performances.

[alison]

Ninamargaret may of course not regard £85 as "reasonably priced", John.

[JohnS]

Thanks Alison - I was responding to a comment earlier referring to paying around £70 for a full length ballet and an eye watering £95 for Romeo & Juliet in favoured Stalls Circle seats and wondered if these Balcony seats may be of any interest, particularly Row A in light of Bluebird’s observation.

[alison]

Oh, right, sorry, I hadn't realised that.  I must have been confusing ninamargaret with someone else.

[ninamargaret]

Thank you to JohnS Bluebird and Alison for comments about seats. I haven't sat in the Balcony for many years and seem to remember that you needed to be very careful about which seats you chose. But given the general run of prices for full length ballets now it's getting to a stage where you need a very deep purse or a sugar daddy!

[penelopesimpson]

I saw Bayadere from Row A of the Balcony.  It was a good position because I  feel that Act 2 is best viewed from above so as to see the patterning, but I did find it an awkward seat.  If you sat forward you were aware that this could be affecting the view of those behind, and yet if I sat back I felt somehow too low.  Not my favourite.

[aliceinwoolfland]

My mother has just booked for R&J (my birthday present) and was astonished at the price increases. She last went 2 years ago and paid around £100 per seat to see 'Alice'. Top price orch stalls matinee seats for R&J are £130 each! We went for them as it's a treat, and are hoping that Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball will still be scheduled to dance that performance by the time it comes around! 

[alison]

To be fair, R&J and Alice have never been in the same price band, as far as I can remember.

[Lizbie1]

Another interesting piece from Rupert Christiansen, touching on Open Up (beware, it's Premium): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/three-trends-will-shape-cultural-landscape-2019/

 

For those who can't read it, he suggests a pause on new building projects, which he says carry a "whiff of institutional macho". As he explains (Mods, please edit if I've overstepped the line on quotations):

 

"The theory is often that such projects can provide income-generating space for new shops and cafés, plus improved access for the disabled and so forth. All too often, however, this involves distraction from the main business of presenting or producing art and causes increases in the staffing and maintenance costs that cancel out any rise in revenue."

[Fonty]

My response to the Open Up email I will send will include the reactions of some friends who came up to London for a day trip.  At one point during the day, I took them to the new building without saying where we were going.   They had never been to the ROH before, so I took them in to the new cafe, and asked them what they thought about the space.  "Ok", was the response.  "But why have you brought us here?"  I asked them where they thought they might be.  They didn't have a clue.  One asked if the person standing behind the till could be selling tickets for a musical, because the video screen behind showed someone who was singing.  

 

The irony is that two of them are very keen on opera, and go whenever they get the chance.    

 

 

 

 

[MargaretN7]

Found a small boy in the cafe enchanted by the fact the model of the Royal Opera House is built of Lego. He was even more delighted when assisted to establish where in the model he was.