Audience Behaviour

[Fonty]

This happened at the (evening) performance I went to in December, so I emailed the ROH via their website to request that they don't put up the lights at all during the pause, since people clearly think that's a signal that talking etc is OK. I received the following reply from an 'usher manager': 'Thank you for taking the time to contact the ROH. I'm sorry that your enjoyment of the performance was disrupted. I will pass on your comments to the Royal Ballet Company. I hope your next visit will go unperturbed.' Well it clearly didn't work! Not sure what else can be done.

 

I think we are going to have to send more emails.  I was in the amphitheatre last night, and the noise was deafening.  The women sitting in the row behind me were talking at the tops of their voices, shouting at one another up and down the line, and laughing uproariously at some joke.  Twice I told them to be quiet, the second time so loudly I think people must have heard me down in the stalls.  The women didn't even look at me, let alone take any notice.

 

I didn't actually notice the lights go up, so I can't comment on that.  But surely, anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that when the orchestra is playing, the show is in progress?  Or do the majority of theatre goers now think that if there is nothing to look at on stage, then this is just background music?  Must be really annoying for the orchestra as well.  

[bangorballetboy]

I think we are going to have to send more emails.  I was in the amphitheatre last night, and the noise was deafening.  The women sitting in the row behind me were talking at the tops of their voices, shouting at one another up and down the line, and laughing uproariously at some joke.  Twice I told them to be quiet, the second time so loudly I think people must have heard me down in the stalls.  The women didn't even look at me, let alone take any notice.

 

I didn't actually notice the lights go up, so I can't comment on that.  But surely, anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that when the orchestra is playing, the show is in progress?  Or do the majority of theatre goers now think that if there is nothing to look at on stage, then this is just background music?  Must be really annoying for the orchestra as well.  

 

I checked at every SB show last week (5 shows) and the house lights were not raised for the act 3 prelude (though the curtain was lit).

 

I too am aghast at the idea that people think it's acceptable to talk over the orchestra playing.

[bridiem]

I think we are going to have to send more emails.  I was in the amphitheatre last night, and the noise was deafening.  The women sitting in the row behind me were talking at the tops of their voices, shouting at one another up and down the line, and laughing uproariously at some joke.  Twice I told them to be quiet, the second time so loudly I think people must have heard me down in the stalls.  The women didn't even look at me, let alone take any notice.

 

I didn't actually notice the lights go up, so I can't comment on that.  But surely, anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that when the orchestra is playing, the show is in progress?  Or do the majority of theatre goers now think that if there is nothing to look at on stage, then this is just background music?  Must be really annoying for the orchestra as well.  

 

They put up the lights that illuminate the curtain area, rather than more widely, but it still seems to make people think it's some sort of interval. Asking for trouble! I do feel so sorry for the orchestra with all that racket going on when they're playing/performing.

[VickyPage]

It does seem to be a common problem. Exactly the same thing happened at the matinee on Saturday (on the same subject: to the lady in the front row of the amphi, playing games on her phone during the performance - we could all see you), even though, as BBB points out, they definitely didn't raise the lights. And I got such shocked looks when I shushed people, as though it was completely acceptable to talk over the orchestra. Considering the huge amount of applause the orchestra always get at the end, I would have thought people would be more respectful. 

[bridiem]

Perhaps it's also the mere fact that the curtains close; maybe people take that in itself as a sign of a lull in the proceedings. Perhaps the curtain could go up again, with some sort of ?frontispiece (sorry, not sure of right word)? But maybe the scene changing behind it would be too noisy for that. Anyway I think that the extra light on the curtain doesn't help.

[Fonty]

Who do we actually send an email to?  When I checked the website, the choices seemed to be Customer Services, Box Office & Ticketing, Collections, Learning & Participation, Human Resources, Membership, Restaurant, Shop, & Website.  None of which is relevant, as far as I can see.  I would really like to send an email directly to someone at the Royal Ballet.,  And copy in whoever is in charge of the orchestra, because they must have some input on the way in which performances are handled.  

[bridiem]

Who do we actually send an email to?  When I checked the website, the choices seemed to be Customer Services, Box Office & Ticketing, Collections, Learning & Participation, Human Resources, Membership, Restaurant, Shop, & Website.  None of which is relevant, as far as I can see.  I would really like to send an email directly to someone at the Royal Ballet.,  And copy in whoever is in charge of the orchestra, because they must have some input on the way in which performances are handled.  

 

Yes, I had the same trouble Fonty. I think in the end I chose 'Customer Services', but I said in the email how bizarre it is that they don't have one relating to performances. The reply I got suggested that it was a matter for the Royal Ballet, so maybe it would indeed be better to email the company rather than the ROH. If an email address can be found for them.

Edited February 21, 2017 by bridiem

[Sim]

Maybe they should make an announcement at the beginning of each performance (like they always do for Requiem) asking the audience to remain silent during the orchestral music that is played between Acts 2 and 3.  It is pitiful to me that people have to be told NOT to talk over the orchestra, but if things have come to that, so be it. 

[capybara]

I thought that the lights have been slightly lower at recent performances?

 

Even so, on two occasions, some people near me have made to stand up, expecting another interval and then loudly proclaiming that were wasn't one!!!!

[FLOSS]

What you none of you seem to appreciate is that the average audience member at Covent Garden is not a ballet sophisticate and is not that knowledgeable about,or interested in,music of any type, least of all classical music. They are not that interested in what they are going to hear which is why Minkus is erroneously believed to be a composer and is held in as much regard as any other composer who has written for the ballet or whose compositions have been pressed into service as ballet scores.

 

Now the chances are that on an evening when a ballet like Les Noces or Daphnis and Chloe is to be performed the musically sensitive will be supplemented by a number of people who are only there for the music but even with additional music lovers present the musically sensitive part of the audience will be vastly outnumbered by the musically indifferent element present in the auditorium. Those who are only there for the kinetic elements of the ballet only seem to recognise that the performance is in progress when they can see people on stage. It is very basic element of human behaviour to be fascinated by other humans. A front cloth however striking it is,and however eminent its designer is,will not quell the noise on its own. The front cloth for Petrushka does not quell the chatter nor does the front cloth with a picture of Pan used in Ashton's Daphnis and Chloe.

 

The average Covent Garden ballet audience chats quite happily during performances of Daphnis and Chloe when the front cloth is displayed so that the scene can be changed from the pirates' lair to the seashore. Unfortunately this part of the ballet action coincides with one of the quietest sections of the score where the chorus sing unaccompanied leading into the dawn chorus which begins with a few tweets from the woodwind.One of the many moments of magic in the score.I can only assume that Ashton thought that his original audience was so well informed musically that they would savour the opportunity of hearing all fifty nine minutes of  Ravel's glorious ballet score with a full chorus,rather than the bleeding chunks of the suites,that they would sit in silence,listen and enjoy while they waited for the final scene and the explosion of sound of the finale.

 

The grim truth is that you need to have something going on in front of the cloth to stop the chattering which is why Ashton uses that method to cover scene changes in both Fille and Cinderella or you put notices in the cast sheets requesting silence throughout the performance much like the notices requesting the audience refrain from applauding during performances of Requiem supplemented by announcements over the public address system,

 

It is pathetic but we now appear to have an audience which can't read the notices in the cast sheet; is indifferent to what they see preferring to look at their mobile screens and indifferent to what the orchestra is doing. I actually begin to wonder why a large part of the audience is there at all. Is it part of a "London  Experience" tourist package ?  

Edited February 21, 2017 by FLOSS

[alison]

Audience members may of course not have picked up a cast sheet in the first place, let alone looked at it - that's always the problem.  Perhaps they just take it as a souvenir.

[bridiem]

What you none of you seem to appreciate is that the average audience member at Covent Garden is not a ballet sophisticate and is not that knowledgeable about,or interested in,music of any type, least of all classical music. They are not that interested in what they are going to hear which is why Minkus is erroneously believed to be a composer and is held in as much regard as any other composer who has written for the ballet or whose compositions have been pressed into service as ballet scores.

 

Now the chances are that on an evening when a ballet like Les Noces or Daphnis and Chloe is to be performed the musically sensitive will be supplemented by a number of people who are only there for the music but even with additional music lovers present the musically sensitive part of the audience will be vastly outnumbered by the musically indifferent element present in the auditorium. Those who are only there for the kinetic elements of the ballet only seem to recognise that the performance is in progress when they can see people on stage. It is very basic element of human behaviour to be fascinated by other humans. A front cloth however striking it is,and however eminent its designer is,will not quell the noise on its own. The front cloth for Petrushka does not quell the chatter nor does the front cloth with a picture of Pan used in Ashton's Daphnis and Chloe.

 

The average Covent Garden ballet audience chats quite happily during performances of Daphnis and Chloe when the front cloth is displayed so that the scene can be changed from the pirates' lair to the seashore. Unfortunately this part of the ballet action coincides with one of the quietest sections of the score where the chorus sing unaccompanied leading into the dawn chorus which begins with a few tweets from the woodwind.One of the many moments of magic in the score.I can only assume that Ashton thought that his original audience was so well informed musically that they would savour the opportunity of hearing all fifty nine minutes of  Ravel's glorious ballet score with a full chorus,rather than the bleeding chunks of the suites,that they would sit in silence,listen and enjoy while they waited for the final scene and the explosion of sound of the finale.

 

The grim truth is that you need to have something going on in front of the cloth to stop the chattering which is why Ashton uses that method to cover scene changes in both Fille and Cinderella or you put notices in the cast sheets requesting silence throughout the performance much like the notices requesting the audience refrain from applauding during performances of Requiem supplemented by announcements over the public address system,

 

It is pathetic but we now appear to have an audience which can't read the notices in the cast sheet; is indifferent to what they see preferring to look at their mobile screens and indifferent to what the orchestra is doing. I actually begin to wonder why a large part of the audience is there at all. Is it part of a "London  Experience" tourist package ?  

 

I agree with much of this, FLOSS; but I don't think you have to be a ballet sophisticate, or knowledgeable about or even interested in music, in order to show courtesy to people who are performing for you in whatever capacity. i.e. I don't think it's lack of knowledge or expertise; it's lack of manners.

[Saodan]

Based on my experience last night, it seems that they light the pause as they do the overture: curtain and orchestra pit lit, houselights down. 

 

I don't like it, but I can forgive those who talk during the prelude; they are excited, talking about the performance, and perhaps not ballet-literate as FLOSS says. I can't, however, forgive those who immediately get their phones out. There was even someone taking a selfie in the amphitheatre. Seriously, if you can't go three hours without checking your phone, there is something wrong with you. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Saodan

[capybara]

What you none of you seem to appreciate is that the average audience member at Covent Garden is not a ballet sophisticate and is not that knowledgeable about,or interested in,music of any type, least of all classical music. 

 

Believe me, I (we) most certainly do, FLOSS.

[bangorballetboy]

What you none of you seem to appreciate is that the average audience member at Covent Garden is not a ballet sophisticate and is not that knowledgeable about,or interested in,music of any type, least of all classical music.

 

How rude and presumptive to suggest that only you know something and that the rest of us are complete ignoramuses.  You might think you are better and cleverer than other posters, but I can assure you it is very much not the case.

[Johnpw]

I think I'm right in saying that the music in question isn't a "prelude" to Act 3 or an entr'acte but is the actual opening to Act 3, described in the score as "Marche" - the liner notes to the Naxos cd describe it thus: "The King and Queen enter in procession with the Prince and Princess". 

 

It is RB's decision to treat it as "accompaniment" to a scene change rather than allowing the slight pause with partially raised/dimmed lights which sometimes happens in operas in similar circumstances. If there was this pause, the curtain could be raised at the start of the Marche and we would actually see the "festive procession" for which Tchaikovsky composed the music. Perhaps those responsible for the production feel that the public have had their two intervals, the bar receipts are secure, and so, for heaven's sake, let's just get on with it.

 

It's unfortunate that some people feel authorised to speak loudly while the orchestra is playing which is inconsiderate to the players and fellow audience members. I have attended three performances - there is indeed an audible hubbub but I'm not clear that most members of the audience break into speech, check their phones etc. There's at least a significant number who don't! Even so I don't think the bad manners of some justify generalisations about the "average member" of the audience, whoever he or she may be. 

[Lizbie1]

I don't like it either but I was there last night (side Amphitheatre) and maybe I was lucky about where I was seated but from my position the conversation was more a low murmur than a deafening row.  And this is no justification, but as far as I'm aware people in previous eras would have merrily chatted through the whole piece: sitting in respectful silence is a relatively modern vogue.

 

While I'd rather people had kept quiet, I can't help thinking that it's not Tchaikovsky's most inspired piece of writing anyway.  If they'd chatted during the Panorama, however...!

[trog]

It is pathetic but we now appear to have an audience which can't read the notices in the cast sheet; is indifferent to what they see preferring to look at their mobile screens and indifferent to what the orchestra is doing. I actually begin to wonder why a large part of the audience is there at all. Is it part of a "London  Experience" tourist package ?

I think it is more of that scourge on society that is mobile phone. The gym that I go to is full of people who would rather play on their mobile phones than use the piece of equipment that they are sitting on. I honestly don't know why the pay their membership - they could play with their phones at home for free. Mind you, this is down to the gym. It's quite posh, but when I used to train in the body builders dungeon, none of the boby builders checked their phone every two minutes. We are actually in the a smartphone zombie plague and as far as I can see, it's only going to get worse. People are addicted to their phones - I believe with some people, they would rather give up their right arm than give up their phone. I fell very blessed that i've been mobile free for the last 15 years

[ninamargaret]

i think part of the problem is that a visit to Covent Garden is frequently billed as being 'an experience '. Audiences,and this goes for most serious theatres, seem to be sharply divided between what i would term to be genuine theatre/ballet goers and those wanting the 'experience '. Interestingly, during my recent visit on 16 Feb matinee, i was sitting next to a couple, the husband had been dragged there by his wife with the promise that it was just like zumba and on the other side a very enthusiastic and knowledgeable ballet goer from the USA. Both were, i am happy to say, perfectly well behaved!So it seems to be largely the luck of the draw.

[nickwellings]

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that most of the audience are philistines and boots, uninterested in classical music or ballet. However it is certainly true that they equate a dead stage as excuse to talk. I have noticed it happens a lot in Swan Lake too. Why, I can't say.

 

To me and it seems to a lot of posters here, we recognise it's part of the musical and dramatic continuum of the piece. It does seem that those who might not go as much as some regulars here might not realise they should ideally listen, not talk. And maybe some don't care. Just as some audiences enjoy clapping between movements so it seems some people enjoy talking during pauses. And in some cases, talking during proceedings! I too wish it were not so, but I don't see an easy solution apart from an announcement. And who at ROH would be churlish enough to make that happen and make people feel dictated to?

[ArucariaBallerina]

Oh, I do hate it when people talk! I wish that there was silence throughout the whole ballet (other than the music!)

One question...it's a bit embarrassing but on the intervals I just have to DANCE! It's like I've swelled up like I'm going to explode and I just dance in a clear area! Last week, I was the lilac fairy and Aurora and my cavalier/prince was a chair! I was hurriedly called back by my mother who told that I was being rude and breaking theatre etiquette... Is this really bad? I will try not to do it again, but... I don't know how to explain it. I feel like I must dance ❤️

[Scheherezade]

I have had many illuminating chats with strangers in the amphitheatre and almost all of them enjoy, and are knowledgeable about, classical music.

 

On the other hand, a friend who is ex-Royal Ballet readily admits that she can't stand classical music and would happily live without any music of any type and it drives her mad when her husband is home since he plays music pretty much non-stop.

[Scheherezade]

Oh, I do hate it when people talk! I wish that there was silence throughout the whole ballet (other than the music!)

One question...it's a bit embarrassing but on the intervals I just have to DANCE! It's like I've swelled up like I'm going to explode and I just dance in a clear area! Last week, I was the lilac fairy and Aurora and my cavalier/prince was a chair! I was hurriedly called back by my mother who told that I was being rude and breaking theatre etiquette... Is this really bad? I will try not to do it again, but... I don't know how to explain it. I feel like I must dance ❤️

 

ArucariaBallerina, please don't stop, I love seeing such spontaneous joy and enthusiasm.

[Fonty]

On the other hand, a friend who is ex-Royal Ballet readily admits that she can't stand classical music and would happily live without any music of any type and it drives her mad when her husband is home since he plays music pretty much non-stop.

 

How on earth can you be a classical ballet dancer, and hate classical music?  

[Scheherezade]

How on earth can you be a classical ballet dancer, and hate classical music?  

 

Went through the RBS, was offered a place at the RB, had the technical ability and enjoyed the physical side.

[Colman]

How on earth can you be a classical ballet dancer, and hate classical music?  

 

 

I seem to remember stories that Fonteyn didn't like music being played at home when she was off work.

[Fonty]

Well, I can quite understand that from Fonteyn's point of view.  She worked with music all day, she probably appreciated a bit of peace and quiet when she went home.

 

But to not like classical music at all is quite another thing, and I find it quite extraordinary that anyone would work in an area that involves so much of something they hate.  It's a bit like a vet saying they don't like animals.  Or a GP who can't stand talking to people.  

[Jan McNulty]

How on earth can you be a classical ballet dancer, and hate classical music?  

 

 

 

I think that it is their job (however vocational it is) and perhaps  they just get tired of it.  Many years ago a friend told me that the dancers don't particularly like hearing music in class that they recognise as ballets, which I guess is a similar sort of thing.

[Fiz]

I've had two ballet teachers who refuse to use ballet music in class. They prefer pop or contemporary.

[Pas de Quatre]

Personally I prefer classical music in class, but I must admit that when you have been rehearsing & performing a ballet for weeks, you can fall out of love with certain pieces of music!  It can take a long time to recover. 

[Fiz]

I prefer ballet music or classical music too but one ballet teacher explained to me that there's only a finite amount of ballet music and you can only hear it so many times before you crack up!

[toursenlair]

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that most of the audience are philistines and boots, uninterested in classical music or ballet.

 

For a few days now I've been wondering about this usage of "boot", thinking, "Oh that must be some British English expression for what we dictionary editors would define as "a contemptible person". Maybe I'll adopt it. "You BOOT! please stop talking during the performance!!!"

 

I only just twigged that it was meant to be "boor".

:lol:

As you were. Nothing to see here.

[RuthE]

I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't like classical music *at all*... given the fact that in the broader sense of the word, the term covers over 400 years' worth of repertoire. That's a lot of music to write off.

 

I *do* understand professionals in a field who don't like to extend that particular thing into their spare time, and indeed I know several professional opera singers who rarely choose to go to opera. (OTOH most of my really good friends who are opera singers are as passionate about it as I am, on and off stage, which is why we're friends!)

 

Back to audience behaviour. I had the dubious pleasure on Monday night, when I ditched Sleeping Beauty in favour of an orchestral concert at the Southbank, to be sitting next to an old man who was visibly and audibly picking at his fingernails. On one occasion, with such force that his elbow jolted the arm between our seats. VILE. I moved, obviously...