Audience Behaviour - Thread 2

[LinMM]

Wow on two fronts!
JohnS …I had to deal with some disgruntlement from time to time  from latecomers but non who refused to accept they could not go in or pushed past me or anything like that. 
Scheherezade ….I can hardly believe what you are saying about the Colisseum. I have to say I too  feel a bit put off now about going there at the moment and just as they need all the public support they can get. 

All this food is obviously destroying the very fabric of the theatre too 😥

 

[bridiem]

David Mead's review of the Icons gala in today's Links has a long postscript about the behaviour of the audience. I hope that if even critics start complaining, this issue might be addressed by venues.

[LinMM]

Unfortunately he doesn’t mention the problem of people eating and drinking. 
Perhaps this isn’t going on so much in the better seats! But if critics started to complain about this going on in theatres during actual performances perhaps that might help to change that culture as well as obviously Jo public complaining has no effect whatsoever. 
His review of the gala though is very good!! 

Edited February 22, 2023 by LinMM

[zxDaveM]

ah - the 'joys' of the west end theatre...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/22/front-of-house-theatres-audiences-managers-customers-staff

[FLOSS]

Any regular opera goer knows that Rhinegold is a through composed one act opera with no obvious break point.It seems to me that part of the problem at the Coliseum is that in its desperation to be audience friendly, welcoming and non elitist ENO's management decided to allow audience members to take drinks into the auditorium where they can slurp their drinks and rattle their ice cubes to their heart's content. ENO's management decision in itself shows that it is less concerned about the quality of the audience's musical experience than its bar receipts. I think that audiences pick up on where a company's priorities lie and that in itself influences behaviour in the auditorium.

 

Once an opera company makes it clear that its bar receipts are much more important than the quality of the musical experience which its audiences have at its performances; that the sort of annoyingly intrusive sounds which ice cubes generate are an acceptable accompaniment to the  efforts of orchestra and singers then it is difficult to see how anyone can expect restrained and considerate behaviour in the auditorium as there is no longer any obvious distinction between auditorium and bar area. Audience members particularly those who have not been adequately socialised in the etiquette of theatre going will easily come to the conclusion that as far as behaviour is concerned anything goes at the Coli.

 

 

I have no doubt that a large part of the problem is that people no longer automatically become educated in the conventions of theatre going at an early age  through annual trips to the theatre at or around Christmas. with parents or grand parents. Trips to the cinema which are a more universal formative experience today are no substitute for the early and prolonged experience of live theatrical performances in inculcating the etiquette of theatre going. Then there must be an increasing number of people who have little of no experience of being entertained in a space shared with strangers where one cannot expect to exercise the freedom of behaviour one may exercise at home.

 

Of course ENO could seek to inform its audiences of the form of conduct to which it expects its audiences to adhere but if it does so it will inevitably be open to a charge of seeking to impose elite forms of conduct and behaviour on its audiences. Perhaps the answer is to write about the problems with late comers, drinks and the ushers to both the company and Opera magazine explaining that what you have experienced at the Coliu is putting yo off buying tickets for other opera  performances this season.

 

 

[LinMM]

What is wrong with Management these days that they cannot either support their staff or take a decisive lead in actually managing situations which have obviously got out of hand! 
It will soon be too dangerous just to go to the theatre lol. 
 

[Emeralds]

53 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

ah - the 'joys' of the west end theatre...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/22/front-of-house-theatres-audiences-managers-customers-staff

That article by the veteran front of house staff member confirms everything I dread/suspect about certain shows and venues. I recall going to plays (well sold or sold out houses) and musicals decades ago in the West End where audiences were well behaved- no eating, drinking or littering in the auditorium, not even rustling of their programmes, and no talking until the show ended or at least a few brief comments only during applause where it wouldn’t be disruptive.

 

The audience participation shows and jukebox musicals changed that, where behaviour like that at a stadium rock or heavy metal concert, or at a theme park (where you do participate!) was encouraged. 

 

I think the problem now isn’t rudeness or lack of courtesy but the fact that lax or timid theatre management have conditioned new audiences into believing that eating (noisy and smelly food) and drinking is part of the normal experience of theatre going and they have absolutely no idea that they would actually enjoy it more if they kept quiet, didn’t eat or drink, and didn’t try to take out their phones to pap illegal (and dangerous) photos.

 

I noticed subtle but uncharacteristic wobbles in the Swan Lake pas de trois by two BRB dancers last week (they didn’t fall and it was only slight as both dancers managed to “rescue” it) and thought it was really odd that it was on the same diagonal until my companion informed me that someone was taking photos (with a visible flash of the screen) while they were dancing their solos -at the moments in the music just before the wobbles. That could have been really dangerous as the dancers were spotting their turns and could have fallen and sustained injuries.

 

What’s even more illogical is when audiences talk over the music- they’ve paid their hard earned money for it so why are they throwing it away by not listening to it? They can’t say that it’s because the score is bad or the playing is poor as both aren’t (quite the opposite in fact) - and believe me, I’ve heard poor playing or bad musical interludes in shows! They are simply doing it because they haven’t a clue. 

 

If management is encouraging bad behaviour (eating and drinking in the auditorium) to raise more money, that’s also a false economy. In the past, when space for bars was more limited (popcorn was nonexistent on the inventory!) theatres didn’t attempt to make money by selling food and alcohol-they sold souvenirs, such as cast recording CDs, souvenir books, DVDs of the musical, souvenir T shirts, pens, keyrings etc and earned lots of revenue from that (judging by the queues I waited in and large sums of cash I saw being handed over or large sums on the till monitor being signed for on credit cards). Definitely more than on boxes of popcorn, no matter how high the markup on the popcorn. 

 

Also, most bars and snack stalls (eg at the Coliseum) are not owned by the theatres nowadays so the theatre staff and artists will not see a penny of that profit- a franchise owner or chain owner pays a fee to set up stall in the theatre and collects all the profit. Whether they sell 10 glasses of wine or 200 glasses of wine, the theatre still receives only the same fee. They should go back to selling CDs, postcards, keyrings, bottled water, and ice cream (which is at least silent and non-pungent ) and disallowing food and drink inside the auditorium -at least the theatre can keep the profit. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Emeralds

[Ian Macmillan]

A footnote, and it's no excuse but - circa 1958, when Bill Haley and the Comets did a UK Tour, there was jiving in the aisles in many places.  There certainly was in Glasgow, for I was there to see it and, as I recall, after some early press reporting, it had become pretty much expected.  As I say, a Footnote.  

[Lynette H]

More on this theme

"A theatre manager said conflict management training for staff was being considered amid an increase in "rowdy and potty-mouthed" audience members.

Kai Aberdeen, manager of the Princes Theatre in Clacton, Essex, said the problem was becoming worse."

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-64705348

 

[Scheherezade]

On a more positive note, I am pleased to say that the audience in the Coliseum balcony at last night's Rhinegold was particularly well behaved. It was like going back in time to an earlier era.

[Lynette H]

Another article from a front of house worker

 

"Too often, theatre management refuses to take decisive action – more worried about customer backlash and social media comment than staff’s happiness and safety"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/22/front-of-house-theatres-audiences-managers-customers-staff

[JNC]

I agree it’s a false economy - I am put off sadlers wells and coliseum now due to their food/drink policies and it would take something I really want to see to make me go, rather than giving things a chance like I would do previously. If others like me also feel the same it will only get worse as we leave theatre going to those who treat it like the cinema or their own living rooms!

 

I feel sad that front of house staff don’t feel supported and would support the two strikes and you’re out rule - as the article notes they often sense through their experience who will be trouble. 
 

It is ridiculous to me that clearly drunk people are continued to be served alcohol!

[alison]

Quite.  Are publicans allowed to do that in pubs?  I didn't think so.

[maryrosesatonapin]

3 hours ago, JNC said:

It is ridiculous to me that clearly drunk people are continued to be served alcohol!

There are actual drunks at ballet performances?  Eeek!  I thought at least these performances would be safe from that particular horror.

 

[maryrosesatonapin]

I just read an article in the Irish Times which deals with audience bad behaviour (theatre goers rather than ballet performances) and says:
 

'It comes amid growing reports of rowdy and abusive behaviour from audiences, with the UK’s largest theatre operator Ambassador Theatre Group working with producers to temper any ad campaigns that could encourage bad behaviour.

Popular shows will be encouraged to avoid phrases such as “best party in town” and “dancing in the aisles” after reports of rowdy and abusive behaviour.'

Full article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/2023/02/23/it-was-so-gross-creepy-paul-mescal-on-confronting-fan-who-groped-him-outside-uk-theatre/?fbclid=IwAR1gK1hSRncxxGCzwW61emw23HFod6bUxPOc5NagakIXmVeI6FvQtuCmbbw

[alison]

1 hour ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

There are actual drunks at ballet performances?  Eeek!  I thought at least these performances would be safe from that particular horror.

 

 

You'd be surprised.  Or not, if you read this thread and its predecessor.  But I think the references above were more to other shows rather than ballet ones.

[alison]

Oh, and at a classical concert I was at recently, there was a woman during the performance eating crisps from one of those crisp bags - you know, the ones made from composite with a metallic-looking inner surface which make a very annoying crinkly rustling sort of sound.  And when she'd finished, she folded it up neatly, thereby making more noise. And I think unfolded it again later.  Later she was eating out of what I think may have been some sort of dried-fruit bag made from a similar material, the sort of thing you get dried slices of banana/mango/apple etc. in

[Linnzi5]

5 hours ago, alison said:

Oh, and at a classical concert I was at recently, there was a woman during the performance eating crisps from one of those crisp bags - you know, the ones made from composite with a metallic-looking inner surface which make a very annoying crinkly rustling sort of sound.  And when she'd finished, she folded it up neatly, thereby making more noise. And I think unfolded it again later.  Later she was eating out of what I think may have been some sort of dried-fruit bag made from a similar material, the sort of thing you get dried slices of banana/mango/apple etc. in

I do not understand how it's possible to listen to and appreciate live classical music whilst munching crisps - let alone the fact that you would be ruining the enjoyment of those around you! I accept eating food at the cinema, of course - I've had the odd ice cream, certainly, but I find it not only annoying but unacceptable to eat loudly during live performances. It's anti-social, in my opinion. Surely, eating snacks can wait for an interval? 🙄

[Sophoife]

I'm the person who on no sleep flew to Melbourne to hear Stephen Kovacevich play Beethoven. Settled down after the interval for Mahler 3 and was woken by my seat neighbour who assured me I hadn't snored, just quietly closed my eyes and slid so deeply in to sleep he'd had to wake me, after the end of the symphony and after all the applause.

[Sophoife]

PS I think my neighbour kindly fibbed. I know I snore.

[Lizbie1]

From an article in the Sunday Times  (paywalled):

 

'Liz Wyse, etiquette adviser at Debrett’s, agrees with me, which is extremely polite of her. “In the pandemic, we were very isolated,” she says. “It was a very peculiar situation, and that has definitely changed us. People now seem to be very un-self-aware when they are in a public place. And when you can’t project what impact your behaviour has on other people, well, that’s the cornerstone of good manners.” '

[Lizbie1]

The article I quoted above mentions that whereas previously it would be quite easy to blame such things on a younger generation, that doesn't really seem the case with the current "trend".

 

I've just been to the ENO Rhinegold: the audience (in the Balcony, plenty of impeccably behaved young people) were on the whole very attentive, but of the several people near me tucking not very quietly into a snack half way through, all but one were of an older generation. I'd also hazard a guess that this was far from their first visit to the opera.

 

It does seem plausible that a small but conspicuous minority have simply forgotten how to behave in public.

[Emeralds]

I’d echo that- all the youngsters under 20 who have come with me have been impeccably behaved....they don’t even snap curtain call photos, even if they use their phones at the interval. Any ice creams or drinks bought at the interval are consumed and disposed of neatly before the show recommences.

 

It's a certain section of people, who may or may not have been to the theatre before, who, as Lizbie1 notes, have forgotten how to behave in public.

 

At a time when virtually all theatre managers and theatre company  directors have experienced finding it challenging to thrive or even balance the books post pandemic, they shouldn’t be driving away their loyal customers by encouraging and abetting poor behaviour, mostly in first time or very infrequent attenders.

 

The inconsiderate first time or infrequent attenders tend to remain infrequent whether or not you allow them to clatter in noisily after the show has begun and to chomp a noisy or pungent picnic during the performance.

 

When the loyal patrons have left for other theatres that are more conducive to enjoying a performance, it will be too late for them to ask, “why did this happen?”

Edited February 26, 2023 by Emeralds

[Scheherezade]

For those who think the UK audiences are badly behaved, read this! (And moderators please remove this post if it breaks any rules).
https://slippedisc.com/2023/03/chaos-last-night-at-the-concertgebouw/

[bridiem]

Since there is so much depressing stuff on this thread, I thought I'd add something good: at Woolf Works at the ROH last night, there was absolute silence and a real sense of the audience being completely gripped and spellbound throughout all three acts, with a huge outburst of applause at the end of each act breaking the tension. Wonderful.

[capybara]

19 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Since there is so much depressing stuff on this thread, I thought I'd add something good: at Woolf Works at the ROH last night, there was absolute silence and a real sense of the audience being completely gripped and spellbound throughout all three acts, with a huge outburst of applause at the end of each act breaking the tension. Wonderful.

AND the behaviour at the rehearsal seemed pretty good too even though people were clutching the lunch snacks they brought with them for the intervals.

[Emeralds]

3 hours ago, Scheherezade said:

For those who think the UK audiences are badly behaved, read this! (And moderators please remove this post if it breaks any rules).
https://slippedisc.com/2023/03/chaos-last-night-at-the-concertgebouw/

I saw that (after looking at the Macaulay review) and was very astounded that the two crazy audience members were not thrown out before the second or at least the third movement. I think their appalling behaviour took the front of house staff by surprise, being used to well behaved Amsterdam audiences and respectful Concertgebouw fans. Plus the fact that the conductor (substituting for someone else) was quite young and usually performs at the opera house rather than the Concertgebouw (though it wasn’t his debut at the venue), and the orchestra (Munich Philharmonic) were also a visitors to the venue. Viotti has conducted the RPO, BBC Philharmonic, and Royal Liverpool Philharmonic and is very well liked. 

 

I think we should put those two in a room with all the annoying popcorn chompers and litterbugs, the filming and papping addicts, the incorrigible chatterers, the Twitter addicts and the clueless who can’t be bothered to either turn off their Smartwatch & Fitbits or put them away do they don’t flash. And play them the score to Creature at full volume.... 😉😂

Edited March 2, 2023 by Emeralds

[Sophoife]

6 hours ago, Emeralds said:

I think we should put those two in a room with all the annoying popcorn chompers and litterbugs, the filming and papping addicts, the incorrigible chatterers, the Twitter addicts and the clueless who can’t be bothered to either turn off their Smartwatch & Fitbits or put them away do they don’t flash. And play them the score to Creature at full volume.... 😉😂

 

I see an opportunity for a revision of the Mikado's "A More Humane Mikado" or Ko-Ko's "As Some Day It May Happen" here 😂

[ninamargaret]

An I the only person old enough to remember that in the early 50s you could order tea trays at matinees which would be brought to your seat at the interval? I think this was never a feature of ROH performances, but certainly was common enough at drama performances  for critics to complain about the rattling of teacups at the resumption of the play. And at one time a chocolate manufacturer produced theatre chocolates, which were wrapped in a non crinkly paper! 

[jm365]

Yes, ninamargaret, I certainly do remember the trays - and the little ashtrays on the back of seats for the smokers.  Trays were a great treat when I went to the theatre with my mother.

[Emeralds]

16 minutes ago, ninamargaret said:

An I the only person old enough to remember that in the early 50s you could order tea trays at matinees which would be brought to your seat at the interval? I think this was never a feature of ROH performances, but certainly was common enough at drama performances  for critics to complain about the rattling of teacups at the resumption of the play. And at one time a chocolate manufacturer produced theatre chocolates, which were wrapped in a non crinkly paper! 

I remember those non-crinkly chocolates! I remember seeing them in the 1980s! So sad they are no longer sold in theatres. We didn’t actually eat them during the show (I think we ate them in the interval or during the journey home) but I remember thinking how thoughtful of someone to produce “quiet” chocolate. 😋🍫

[Jane S]

Unless my memory deceives me (which is not unlikely) you could get tea brought to your seat at Covent Garden matinees when I first visited in 1959.

[AnneMarriott]

Before the ROH closed for renovations you could have a complete supper delivered to your Grand Tier box before the performance and during intervals.  The waiter used to explain the programme too.  In my experience the boxes either side were either enjoying the same service or were empty during the intervals so I hope we didn't disturb anyone.  I hasten to add that at that time we made regular use of stalls circle standing tickets for ourselves - the boxes were for entertaining clients, not at our personal expense!  Happy days ...