Audience Behaviour - Thread 2

[capybara]

The announcement needs to be made in an authoritative voice, not the throwaway tone which often obtains.

[bangorballetboy]

I paid another visit to Wicked at the weekend and there the announcement is that taking photographs and recording is unlawful.  I think this is a good, strong message.

 

Meanwhile, at Moulin Rouge!, you are allowed to take pictures during the pre-show but then the ushers appear with wooden boards with a "no cameras" image and they are quite forceful in asking people to stop (particularly at the end of the show).  The announcement there is not to sing along until the grand finale (which I usually do, lustfully!).

[Fonty]

I am getting to the stage where i wonder if they should make people check their phones in with their coats.  I find it immensely irritating when people start checking their phones every time there is  a scene change.  And I shouldn't have to ask an entire row of adults behind me to stop talking when the overture starts or there is a musical interlude.  Recently one woman sitting next to me started talking to her watch loudly while the orchestra was playing.  Seemed as if she was speaking to someone at work.  Do people think that because it isn't a mobile phone therefore it doesn't count?

[Emeralds]

On 04/02/2023 at 18:14, alison said:

I'm pretty sure it says on the production page either that it's not suitable for the under 5s or that they aren't allowed.

Sorry, a very late reply to the earlier discussions, but Alison is right- the “no under 5s in the auditorium” rule is for all main stage shows. It only got passed about 10 years ago. Before that, well behaved kids under 5 could actually sit on a parent’s lap! (No babies though.) 

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

I am getting to the stage where i wonder if they should make people check their phones in with their coats.  

 

The problem with that being, of course, that there are now no paper cast sheets (or indeed tickets) and so they specifically tell you to access them on your phone. But don't seem to realise that that's asking for trouble.

[Sophoife]

9 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

The announcement there is not to sing along until the grand finale (which I usually do, lustfully!).

 

🤣

 

I do hope it's not exactly that! Somewhat disconcerting for the neighbours...

 

😉

[MaddieRose]

Not ballet but I was at the Royal Shakespeare Company's Tempest this afternoon (which was incidentally very good) and ended up sat next to a school group of what must have been Year 8s. I gave them the benefit of the doubt at first, and they were relatively alright in the first act, just a bit fidgety. At the theatre they give out interval drinks in plastic cups, and one of the schoolkids began to scrunch his very loudly at the start of Act II. I went to say something but before I could the man in front of us turned around and whispered 'Shut Up' They then, unfortunately, got the dreaded phones out, and as soon as one lit up the man whipped around and gave them what can only be described as Paddington's hard stare. They got the message then. 

[Blossom]

5 hours ago, Fonty said:

I am getting to the stage where i wonder if they should make people check their phones in with their coats.  I find it immensely irritating when people start checking their phones every time there is  a scene change.  And I shouldn't have to ask an entire row of adults behind me to stop talking when the overture starts or there is a musical interlude.  Recently one woman sitting next to me started talking to her watch loudly while the orchestra was playing.  Seemed as if she was speaking to someone at work.  Do people think that because it isn't a mobile phone therefore it doesn't count?

At Cabaret they stick a sticker over your camera to stop photos being taken- even at the curtain call. 

[JNC]

27 minutes ago, Blossom said:

At Cabaret they stick a sticker over your camera to stop photos being taken- even at the curtain call. 

this is so interesting! I guess it’s a smaller audience but it still relies on people being cooperative. Practically I can’t see this working at roh.

 

Unfortunately checking in a phone call wouldn’t work - people do like to keep in touch at the intervals and it would cause ridiculous queues for retrievals. 

 

In an ideal world it wouldn’t be necessary but I think the messaging on phones should be stronger.

 

maybe before the performance a video could be played around no loud food, no phones, no talking emphasising it is distracting for others and disrespectful. There is an independent cinema in London that plays this type of film pre the movie and it seems to be effective. 

 

I also would support ushers receiving more training and support to ensure they can and do intervene, I appreciate it is not the easiest job but if standards aren’t enforced I fear things will only get worse.

 

And to all the Paddington hard-starers and shushers, I am with you! 

[Silke H]

I experienced a different kind of noise disturbance by an audience member at Sleeping Beauty yesterday:  the chap in the seat in front of me (standing) kept burping.  Admittedly not the loud open mouthed burps but still very audible closed mouth all the way up from the belly burps. I have no idea what he had eaten before the performance but it certainly kept repeating on him throughout the three hours of it.  And to top it off, he started to yawn loudly during the most wonderful Grand Pas.  Really rather irritating.  😖

[akh]

13 hours ago, JNC said:

this is so interesting! I guess it’s a smaller audience but it still relies on people being cooperative. Practically I can’t see this working at roh.

 

Unfortunately checking in a phone call wouldn’t work - people do like to keep in touch at the intervals and it would cause ridiculous queues for retrievals. 

 

In an ideal world it wouldn’t be necessary but I think the messaging on phones should be stronger.

 

maybe before the performance a video could be played around no loud food, no phones, no talking emphasising it is distracting for others and disrespectful. There is an independent cinema in London that plays this type of film pre the movie and it seems to be effective. 

 

I also would support ushers receiving more training and support to ensure they can and do intervene, I appreciate it is not the easiest job but if standards aren’t enforced I fear things will only get worse.

 

And to all the Paddington hard-starers and shushers, I am with you! 

What training would you suggest, we are all fully briefed and if they still persist the Duty Manager deals with it. Even they can sometimes have problems getting them to stop using the phone without creating a disturbing incident during a performance, particularly if the culprit is mid row. We honestly do try!

[San Perregrino]

14 minutes ago, akh said:

What training would you suggest, we are all fully briefed and if they still persist the Duty Manager deals with it. Even they can sometimes have problems getting them to stop using the phone without creating a disturbing incident during a performance, particularly if the culprit is mid row. We honestly do try!

as a regular ROH attendee I know first-hand that your job isn’t easy, that there are constraints around how you can safely intervene with audience members and that ushers strive to do their best.
all your hard work is greatly appreciated. thank you 

[Fonty]

19 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

The problem with that being, of course, that there are now no paper cast sheets (or indeed tickets) and so they specifically tell you to access them on your phone. But don't seem to realise that that's asking for trouble.

 

Ah yes, good point.  I forgot about that. 

[LinMM]

I do think really awkward audience members are hard to deal with by the Ushers as there is a toss up probably on if they intervene will they create more disturbance than the person who is a problem!!  
It could be that they could hold on until the interval and then go and have a quiet word if the behaviour has been persistent. 
Otherwise it’s probably easier …in the case of phone use say…for other audience members to do the monitoring however annoying this is. 

Most people are usually pretty obliging about being asked to turn phone off as they know they shouldn’t be doing it but there’s always that one…………
 

[JNC]

9 hours ago, akh said:

What training would you suggest, we are all fully briefed and if they still persist the Duty Manager deals with it. Even they can sometimes have problems getting them to stop using the phone without creating a disturbing incident during a performance, particularly if the culprit is mid row. We honestly do try!

I’m not trying to say ushers aren’t skilled or trying their best so apologise if I caused offence. I appreciate it’s a difficult and often thankless job! I am often thankful to ushers who I do see intervening and stopping various behaviours and appreciate if someone is sat in the middle of a row particularly it is difficult to weigh up wider disruption vs intervening. 
 

at the coliseum they use a torch to shine a light on the phone users which while disruptive does get the message across (and because it is disruptive it also probably puts others off being shamed in the same way!). But I know it’s not ideal as even if not noisy it is distracting to others visually. 

 

I suppose I meant specific training around de-escalating conflict, communication, how to be proactive etc. I know many ushers already are good at these things and if that training is already happening this is good it does suggest that it is then up to roh to provide clearer messaging and enforcement with the audio announcements being stronger, louder; and played post each interval, as I and others have already suggested. And ultimately if there are repeat offenders suspensions and or bans (this one is a tricky one though I know!).

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by JNC

[Geoff]

33 minutes ago, JNC said:

I suppose I meant specific training around de-escalating conflict, communication, how to be proactive etc. I know many ushers already are good at these things and if that training is already happening this is good it does suggest that it is then up to roh to provide clearer messaging and enforcement with the audio announcements being stronger, louder; and played post each interval, as I and others have already suggested. And ultimately if there are repeat offenders suspensions and or bans (this one is a tricky one though I know!).

I agree in principle JNC - however any such training may also have to be guided by Maoist principles enforced by the Arts Council, which the ROH is therefore understandably currently in thrall to (“People who go to theatre/opera/ballet/concerts are OUT, whereas people who have never been before are IN and must be made super welcome so they tell other people that going to Covent Garden is not elitist”).

 

In other words I see a possible tension between “encouraging new audiences” (who almost by definition have not been brought in the past by people who know what’s expected) and the sort of “enforcement” you suggest.

It’s a sad situation, often discussed here as having a lot to do with the collapse of music teaching in schools. 

[akh]

My comments aren't related to the ROH but the provincial theatres that I usher at and yes we are fully briefed and all or Duty Managers are skilled in the specific training mentioned above sadly this doesn't solve every problem we encounter. Most of our audiences are fabulous. 

[Tango Dancer]

I must say the audience for the BRB gala at Symphony Hall tonight was very quiet and well behaved.

 

I went to a spooky play at Richmond theatre earlier this week and there was a Lewton bus then a real jump scare making the woman behind me squeal and jump up. Which was a tribute to the job they were doing. One chap was checking his phone a lot during the play but was told off by the usher and left at the interval. 

 

 

[Sim]

Duplicate post hidden above. 

[Emeralds]

On 09/02/2023 at 20:22, Blossom said:

At Cabaret they stick a sticker over your camera to stop photos being taken- even at the curtain call. 

Thanks for the warning, Blossom. Do they give you the sticker to cover it yourself or do they grab your phone and slap it on? Surely a polite instruction to keep phones turned off and put away is sufficient. We’re not convicts in jail or naughty schoolchildren in detention. Especially when one has paid £600 for a pair of tickets. It’s also presumptuous to do that to a patron’s phone, leaving sticky glue residue over the camera part, if he/she had no intention of taking photos or videos of the show or theatre at all. And it seems a bit inappropriate that Cabaret announces that they sell tickets to school groups! 

[San Perregrino]

11 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Thanks for the warning, Blossom. Do they give you the sticker to cover it yourself or do they grab your phone and slap it on? Surely a polite instruction to keep phones turned off and put away is sufficient. We’re not convicts in jail or naughty schoolchildren in detention. Especially when one has paid £600 for a pair of tickets. It’s also presumptuous to do that to a patron’s phone, leaving sticky glue residue over the camera part, if he/she had no intention of taking photos or videos of the show or theatre at all. And it seems a bit inappropriate that Cabaret announces that they sell tickets to school groups! 

Not need to get one’s high horse if you haven’t yet attended the show. It’s a very simple and polite request as you enter to “keep the secret” and thus the magic and mystery of this particular production. You are given the sticker as you enter and I haven’t seen anyone who has objected in the several times I’ve been along to see the show. I believe that you can choose not to put the sticker on your phone and simply refrain from taking photos but most people enter into the spirit of the evening. “What happens at the KitKat Club stays at the KitKat Club”. It’s a little souvenir. What someone pays for a ticket be it £6, £60 or £600 is immaterial. Sometimes the very people who have paid £600 for their tickets are those that need the gentle prod to stay away from their phones during the evening. It applies to all price bands. The sticker can easily be removed on leaving and doesn’t leave any residue. For those with short term memory issues like myself it is a simple reminder during the show to leave my phone alone. Job done. 
I’m not sure why you reference to school groups, seems like a red herring to me?

[CCL]

The phone rules at the ABBA Voyage show are also very strict: no pictures are allowed to be taken at any point and a warning is given that anyone seen not adhering to this rule will be asked to leave.

[emmarose]

13 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Thanks for the warning, Blossom. Do they give you the sticker to cover it yourself or do they grab your phone and slap it on? Surely a polite instruction to keep phones turned off and put away is sufficient. We’re not convicts in jail or naughty schoolchildren in detention. Especially when one has paid £600 for a pair of tickets. It’s also presumptuous to do that to a patron’s phone, leaving sticky glue residue over the camera part, if he/she had no intention of taking photos or videos of the show or theatre at all. And it seems a bit inappropriate that Cabaret announces that they sell tickets to school groups! 

 

When I went last year (and I think they were stricter then because they hadn't even realised any photos of the inside until recently) they just handed you a sticker. I didn't put it on my phone, I just restrained myself from using it. They're not going to demand your phone and put it on.

[bangorballetboy]

Here’s a picture of the KKC sticker, now in pride of place on the back of my phone!

 

[JNC]

Definitely something in the messaging I think!

 

I like the positive rather than negative messaging around “preserving the magic” and asking people not to spoil the mystery by putting photos etc up on social media. Lends an element of exclusivity to being there and having to see it with your own eyes! 
 

Perhaps if roh amplified the “no phones/cameras” message with a reason (don’t spoil the magic of a live performance, respect the audience and dancers) it may be more effective.

 

I totally appreciate there are simply some that won’t care and no amount of messaging would work, but if there is a strong element of peer pressure around this so people feel they would be called out/shamed by others those in the middle may refrain.

 

I like to think most of those doing this type of thing may not realise how disruptive it actually is to others and spoils the moment, as opposed to simply not caring at all! 

[Blossom]

22 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Thanks for the warning, Blossom. Do they give you the sticker to cover it yourself or do they grab your phone and slap it on? Surely a polite instruction to keep phones turned off and put away is sufficient. We’re not convicts in jail or naughty schoolchildren in detention. Especially when one has paid £600 for a pair of tickets. It’s also presumptuous to do that to a patron’s phone, leaving sticky glue residue over the camera part, if he/she had no intention of taking photos or videos of the show or theatre at all. And it seems a bit inappropriate that Cabaret announces that they sell tickets to school groups! 

I think we covered it ourselves. The idea is to prevent any photos inside the Kit Kat Club which might then ruin the experience for others.

[emmarose]

22 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

Here’s a picture of the KKC sticker, now in pride of place on the back of my phone!

 

 

I still have mine, I stuck it in my copy of my Isherwood (Berlin stories).

[art_enthusiast]

Excuse my language, but I certainly had a very annoying, spoiled brat sitting next to me (unfortunately) for the matinée of Sleeping Beauty last Saturday. I was thrilled to be seeing Marcelino Sambé, a dancer I absolutely adore - and Sarah Lamb too of course so I was getting ready to start with some loud shushing/obvious glares in their direction.

 

I was highly irritated with the whispering from this child and their family which lingered in the overture - from their noise I gathered that the child had been taken here under sufferance and didn’t want to be at the performance at all, describing it as ‘boring’ and asking to leave after the prologue (they really should have left then, or someone at least should have taken the child out).
 

Luckily they managed to keep it zipped for most of the rest of each Act (otherwise I would definitely have complained), the child erupting in complaints and tears during the next 2 intervals. The family seemed impervious to these.

 

This does seem ridiculous to me - if the child doesn’t want to be here and is showing signs of disruptive behaviour, and most likely had several tantrums on the way here, maybe don’t bring them in the first place? It’s a Saturday, surely they could have gone and done some other supervised activity - and the seats weren’t cheap so they could most likely afford a child minder if nothing else…

 

It seems very selfish to bring along a child who has made it clear they aren’t happy, whilst knowing you will inadvertently be impacting the experience of others who have paid to be there. It really makes no sense at all. 

[Jan McNulty]

I'm not saying that small children can misbehave, be upset or anything else but perhaps, if they had never been to a theatre before, they were a bit overwhelmed and frightened.

 

I remember taking my nieces to see S Club 7 at the Manchester Arena many years ago and they were overwhelmed by the experience, although it turned them very quiet rather than upset or disruptive.

[art_enthusiast]

39 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

I'm not saying that small children can misbehave, be upset or anything else but perhaps, if they had never been to a theatre before, they were a bit overwhelmed and frightened.

 

Agreed, but I don't think this was the case here. They looked to be around 10/11 - old enough to have a smart phone and use it anyway, which they were doing in the auditorium. They were speaking in a very bossy/threatening way to their parents, saying things like "We have to leave after this" (while the prologue music was starting), "We have to leave in 70 minutes", "You said I could leave in 30 minutes", "I don't want you sitting next to me" etc. I'd classify this as spoilt brat behaviour, as most children don't really talk to their parents like that in public, at what is presumably a theatre treat - at least in my experience anyway! They didn't seem to be in pain or in any way physically afflicted or frightened, just bored and making sure everyone else knew it.

Such a shame, as that seat could have been used by a child who actually wanted to see the performance.

Edited February 14, 2023 by art_enthusiast

[Sebastian]

On 04/02/2023 at 12:18, Geoff said:

Last night, in the slips, we had the youngest child I have ever seen at Covent Garden in some fifty years of attending...

In the first interval I spotted a couple having words with an usher and heard that "our rules are relaxed for these ballets". 

 

On 04/02/2023 at 15:55, JNC said:

ROH should really be banning children that young to be honest, and the mother shouldn’t have thought it was acceptable. 

I also find it a bit of an odd comment to say exceptions were made for sleeping beauty... But while sleeping beauty is a fairytale it’s a long ballet, over 3 hours with long acts. Doesn’t make sense to me! 

 

On 04/02/2023 at 16:07, oncnp said:

 

Last night I saw a child, probably (hopefully?) the same one being breast-fed in the lobby. 

 

And the ROH does have a policy and lacks either the staff or the will to enforce it. 

 

1.8. Children aged 5–14 must have their own ticket and must be seated next to an accompanying adult. Children aged 0–4 will not be admitted to the auditoriums unless otherwise advertised.

 

On 04/02/2023 at 18:07, MJW said:

With regard to young children, I can't see anything specific mentioned regarding "relaxed" rules for SB but the website states 

"Children age five and above are permitted into our auditoria. They must have their own ticket and sit next to an accompanying adult. Some events are open to families with children younger that five. This will be clearly stated on the production or event web page"

 

On 04/02/2023 at 19:17, Sim said:

On the website it says...  Guidance: Suitable for All.  So some people take that to mean toddlers as well, I guess!!  

 

This confusion seemed worth drawing to ROH's attention. So I wrote to the ever helpful Graham Boland of ROH Customer Services. He replied (and I told him I would update the Forum with what he said):

 

>>Whilst we encourage all to attend our performances, we do have an age guidance of 5 years and above. Sometimes, it is difficult to gauge a child's exact age and occasionally when asked, a parent might provide a slightly older age which can prove difficult for a member of staff to decide upon. This is why the team will advise customers with young children to be aware of their environment with fellow audience members close by and request politely that they leave at the first sign of noise or irritation. I am sorry if this was not explained clearly to the customer before the performance on this occasion. 

In response to your request for clarification, please be assured that the matter is being addressed at this very time. Our Visitor Experience department, Front of House and Digital teams are working to ensure we have a consistent, departmental approach for delivery of this guidance for all our customers, both online and when visiting. We are aiming for this to be concluded in the coming weeks...It would be remiss of me to comment on this until the group has come to a fuller explanation. 

 

As ROH is engaged in a discussion about the issue I presume they would appreciate feedback from its patrons. Graham will no doubt be pleased to feed in any new ideas (I suggested they check the discussion here). 

[Sim]

Many thanks for sharing this, Sebastian.  I look forward to some clarity from the ROH on this matter.  I can only imagine how hard it is to come up with rigid rules.  I guess the easiest thing is to have a minimum age (4? 5?) except for specific childrens’ performances or matinees of Nutcracker, for example.  It also depends on the child. I started taking my daughter to the ballet when she was 4, and she loved it so much that there was never a peep from her.  However, I chose the shows very carefully and was fully prepared to take her out if there was any noise!  I in turn had also been taken to the ballet by my parents from the age of 4.  
 

Another important aspect is that there needs to be a consistent approach across the venue as to how noisy children are dealt with if the parents don’t remove them from the auditorium.  

[Fonty]

@art_enthusiastWhen you described the child's behaviour I thought they were about 5, not 10.  I do wonder why the parents made him/her go in the first place.  Other people's children and their parenting skills are a constant source of wonder to me as a childless person!  Most children I have encountered have been beautifully behaved, I have to say.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Fonty