Vocational schools yesses and no's

[Flower]

Thank you so much for your comments everyone that’s really helpful. 
Anyone got Tring or Moorland comments to offer?

[BalletBoyMumma]

DS is currently in a group Zoom session with the Head of Boys at Hammond. The teacher seems really lovely. Very precise but in a really encouraging, attentive way (usually that doesn’t come across so easily in such a large Zoom class, we tend to avoid the large classes as they can feel quite impersonal and DS feels a bit lost). 

 

Slightly regretting not broadening our opportunities this year. Hopefully open days and workshops can start going ahead again soon - it’d be lovely to get a proper feel for what’s out there for the future. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by BalletBoyMumma

[Lara Eschler]

1 hour ago, BalletBoyMumma said:

DS is currently in a group Zoom session with the Head of Boys at Hammond. The teacher seems really lovely. Very precise but in a really encouraging, attentive way (usually that doesn’t come across so easily in such a large Zoom class, we tend to avoid the large classes as they can feel quite impersonal and DS feels a bit lost). 

 

Slightly regretting not broadening our opportunities this year. Hopefully open days and workshops can start going ahead again soon - it’d be lovely to get a proper feel for what’s out there for the future. 

Oh, I was going to signed up for that with Mr D, and then got sidetracked, I have not been organized for this half-term but I guess we all needed a break. Glad your ds is enjoying. xx

[BalletBoyMumma]

10 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

Oh, I was going to signed up for that with Mr D, and then got sidetracked, I have not been organized for this half-term but I guess we all needed a break. Glad your ds is enjoying. xx

Oh, definitely enjoy your break. It is needed sometimes. ❤️ 
If anyone wants to look out for future sessions it was organised by My Boy Can on Instagram.  
 

We haven’t done much at all as DS really doesn’t enjoy Zoom so not wanting to put him off completely. Trying to keep up fitness and technique without it is proving a real challenge though. 
I really, really, really hope this is our last lockdown 🤞🤞🤞 

[Bunny]

2 hours ago, BalletBoyMumma said:

DS is currently in a group Zoom session with the Head of Boys at Hammond. The teacher seems really lovely. Very precise but in a really encouraging, attentive way (usually that doesn’t come across so easily in such a large Zoom class, we tend to avoid the large classes as they can feel quite impersonal and DS feels a bit lost). 

 

Slightly regretting not broadening our opportunities this year. Hopefully open days and workshops can start going ahead again soon - it’d be lovely to get a proper feel for what’s out there for the future. 

My DS did these workshops this morning too they were fab weren’t they!

[BalletBoyMumma]

They really were. Hoping there’ll be more like it throughout the year.  

[Ballet4Boyz]

I can only talk about the Hammond as my DS is just completing year 11, having attended for the last 5 years. 
I can’t speak highly enough about his time there. My DS has always favoured ballet over everything else .... but the Hammond has a way of encouraging the actor & vocalist in all their students.

Mr Dutton has taught our son for years and he’s an amazing mentor and teacher for all the boys (and girls). 
Our DS has thrived there and stands to do really well academically.... so much so that he’s even considering the academic road over the dance route. My point is that the Hammond really encourages their students in every field - be it dance, drama, music or academics...... producing cohorts of students with an excellent level of all round training.It’s a very kind & nurturing school in our experience..... and this was a very important factor to us.
 In the past - it hasn’t been the best with its boarding facilities.... the children have always been well looked after & happy in boarding - but the boarding houses were known for being a little tired ! The school has changed its boarding accommodation this last year and the standard is now so much better and very much on a par with the other vocational schools. Our DS particularly enjoyed his walks into Chester with his friends ..... a beautiful city for them to spend time in. 
There is no journey through vocational school without the odd bump in the road and we have always found staff at the school or in boarding very approachable and quick to solve any issues.
I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend The Hammond as an excellent, encouraging vocational school to any prospective parents!

[Lifeafterballet]

19 hours ago, Farawaydancer said:

Elmhurst have changed their assessment system completely in the last 18 months, and it’s a definite commitment to offer five years now, unless there are very major issues such as very long term injury. 

I was just reading the Elmhurst thread with all the yess and nos for finals coming out, sadly two nos were for year 8 and year 9 ☹️ Going back to Elmhurst’s new assessment system and their commitment to offering their students 5 years of training, would there be any point of applying if there was no movement until upper school ? If you gain a place in year 7 then you can stay in it til year 11 ? There is a world of difference, physically and emotionally between an 11 year old and a 16 year old. A lot happens in that time. In our experience they were very poor at giving honest and direct feedback. They beat around the bush a lot with excuses and rarely gave straight answers to questions. So I will pose a question if I may, 

 As barbaric as the assessing out process is, isn’t it a necessary evil ?  
Wouldn’t you want to get your child onto a pathway that suits them better earlier rather than 5 years wasted or chasing a dream that isn’t going to happen. I know of so many fantastic experiences and positives that began with leaving a particular school that in hindsight wasn’t right for them. Lots have been shared on here. 
Before stopping ballet Dd had a really honest conversation with a ballet teacher that she respects enormously and had always been a support. She reassured her that it was ok to stop, that sometimes you can just outgrow ballet, and that what she wanted at 11 isn’t necessarily the same at 19 or any age. Also, that there is only so far you can take it and sometimes you just aren’t going to get any better and there is nothing you can do about it.  Maybe if we had had that conversation earlier then Dd would have started a new pathway and been happier earlier. Who knows ☺️

[Flower]

2 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I was just reading the Elmhurst thread with all the yess and nos for finals coming out, sadly two nos were for year 8 and year 9 ☹️ Going back to Elmhurst’s new assessment system and their commitment to offering their students 5 years of training, would there be any point of applying if there was no movement until upper school ? If you gain a place in year 7 then you can stay in it til year 11 ? There is a world of difference, physically and emotionally between an 11 year old and a 16 year old. A lot happens in that time. In our experience they were very poor at giving honest and direct feedback. They beat around the bush a lot with excuses and rarely gave straight answers to questions. So I will pose a question if I may, 

 As barbaric as the assessing out process is, isn’t it a necessary evil ?  
Wouldn’t you want to get your child onto a pathway that suits them better earlier rather than 5 years wasted or chasing a dream that isn’t going to happen. I know of so many fantastic experiences and positives that began with leaving a particular school that in hindsight wasn’t right for them. Lots have been shared on here. 
Before stopping ballet Dd had a really honest conversation with a ballet teacher that she respects enormously and had always been a support. She reassured her that it was ok to stop, that sometimes you can just outgrow ballet, and that what she wanted at 11 isn’t necessarily the same at 19 or any age. Also, that there is only so far you can take it and sometimes you just aren’t going to get any better and there is nothing you can do about it.  Maybe if we had had that conversation earlier then Dd would have started a new pathway and been happier earlier. Who knows ☺️

I think it depends on whether the school and training is enjoyable. If you said my dd could have an MDA on the understanding that she would never make it past 16 in the dance world I’d still take the place. I’d love a school with small classes and plenty of dance whatever it lead to. IF it was fun enough to make my daughter happy and not stressful. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Flower

[Chamomile]

@cotes du rhone ! I totally agree. Although I think the concept of an assessed lesson every three weeks is a good idea, I found that as an institution Elmhurst can dodge around points that should probably be made.

 

I had a great five years at lower school and then three years at upper school which weren’t so great. I was blatantly struggling in many ways, and would’ve appreciated greater transparency over these crucial years.

 

Being assessed out seems heartbreaking initially, but I do believe that every cloud has a silver lining. This may be with training elsewhere that actually suits the individual or re-evaluating if ballet is still for you/if you still want to pursue it professionally. As long as there is support in this transition period (I know a few schools lack this!) I honestly don’t think it’s a bad thing. 

[rowan]

On 16/02/2021 at 14:46, cotes du rhone ! said:

I have just discovered on Instagram “The hard-corps ballet” podcasts. It is young dancers talking about their vocational journeys and experiences. Well worth a listen. 

 Thanks for this link. I’ve had a listen to one or two at random. Very interesting, though they could be edited slightly.

[meadowblythe]

 

As the parent of a child who was assessed out, and, incidentally had zero support from his "home" ballet school, I have been considering whether the Pros and Cons ..

 

Background: home school had a favoured child in the same year, all effort went on supporting them.  No recognition of 4 finals and 3 MDS as he didn't get a place at WL (favoured child did.)

 

First vocational school was one DS had set his heart on.  It wasn't right for him and he had 3 years of limited progress both dance and academically.   Assessed out in Y9.  Told he had the makings of a dancer but not a ballet dancer.

 

His roles this month include Rat King, Rothbart and soloist in a new commission (he lives abroad and they are offering socially distanced performances.)  Ironically, his home school listed him on one of their "where did they go next" features, including companies he has danced for, although no one ever went to a single festival, JA class, or competition to see him dance.

 

Undoubtedly he was a late developer (August birthday.). Would he have flourished eventually at the first school? I doubt it.  I felt the students had been categorised by the end of the first week, the opportunities would not have come, however much he improved.  This, however, is some time ago, and things may well have improved.  Would we have removed him?  Again, to my shame I doubt it, we were of the "grateful to be here" school..  I wish we had been able to get advice from anyone as to what to do then (although thank you Julie Welman you were wonderful.).  So yes, I agree, however barbaric and painful assessment is, it sometimes pushes you to make decisions that need to be made, and forces new doors open.  

[Busymum]

On 16/02/2021 at 13:44, Darcey15 said:

I don’t know anyone who had theirs removed at Tring 

Tring definitely do remove MDS from pupils and have done before the new Co Directors of Dance came into post. 

They don't do it that often but definitely do but they don't come as a shock. Support and advice is given in advance and from what I am lead to believe they would know by October half term to give them time to audition elsewhere if they couldn't stay without the funding. All pupils on the dance course are assessed in the same way and you never know who has an MDS and who doesn't.

[Dancing Kitty]

1 hour ago, Busymum said:

Tring definitely do remove MDS from pupils and have done before the new Co Directors of Dance came into post. 

They don't do it that often but definitely do but they don't come as a shock. Support and advice is given in advance and from what I am lead to believe they would know by October half term to give them time to audition elsewhere if they couldn't stay without the funding. All pupils on the dance course are assessed in the same way and you never know who has an MDS and who doesn't.

 

This has happened since the new Directors took over too but as you say notice is given and there is an opportunity to improve before the eventual withdrawal of the scholarship.

[Lifeafterballet]

Interesting read 😔
 

https://www.pointemagazine.com/ballet-and-emotional-demands-2650701933.html?utm_campaign=RebelMouse&socialux=facebook&share_id=6300042&utm_medium=social&utm_content=Pointe&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2m04mNgHOGD0K8HOplXBLGQwOWjNpYTuGAgSaUR-UMh3nP_i1GRhWPc0o

[Macmac]

What a fantastic article! Thank you so much @cotes du rhone ! for sharing! x

[Lifeafterballet]

I listened to this podcast 😢

Substitute the word ‘football’ for ‘ballet’ it really touches a nerve 😔 
 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/football-academies-are-innocent-dreams-being-exploited-12227028?fbclid=IwAR3UqQBX5Qiy3RZuk4-QZN8BomEuuy6XwpWhlHQ8HAl6IUvxppNPPzeBPZg

[Canary]

I see 17 gymnasts have been brave enough to come forward to expose abuse. (physical and emotional ) 

[Chamomile]

I would also recommend checking out @thedancersanonymous on Instagram. That isn’t with the intention of putting anyone off vocational training, but it does certainly highlight many elements that are wrong with training and the wider dance world.

[Lifeafterballet]

16 minutes ago, Chamomile said:

I would also recommend checking out @thedancersanonymous on Instagram. That isn’t with the intention of putting anyone off vocational training, but it does certainly highlight many elements that are wrong with training and the wider dance world.

Thank you for sharing this x

I just had a quick read of some of the posts 😔 The experiences are all too familiar. But the saddest thing is the anonymity 😢 Why aren’t we brave or feel supported enough to speak out ? If it wasn’t for Athlete A / Maggie Nichols, those other brave USA Gymnasts would not have come forward and shared their horrible experiences and put away their abusers.This in turn has lead to today’s news about British Gymnastics 😢

It appears that there is a lack of child protection / safeguarding when it comes to elite training. The strive for success at what cost, and sadly as parents we can get swept along with it and accept certain practices and behaviours as normal as we don’t know any different at the time. Our ballet fog is clearing ☺️

[Canary]

and may I add @cotes du rhone ! risk our child being ostracised by the professionals and other parents if we take any form of positive action. 

[rowan]

Thank you for that link @Chamomile

I’ve had a skim read and this comment stood out to me: “I was young and in love with an art form that would never give me back even a portion of what I gave it.”

 

[Lifeafterballet]

 

Didn't know where to share this very brave young lady sharing her journey x

[WrapsnBows]

there is another post by a X RBS Student doing its rounds  she’s in her 2nd year at another vocational ballet school now after 5 years at WL and the video is all about how she didn’t believe in herself at WL and how the new school believes in her and how now she’s been entered into world class competitions and is having an amazing time and is now loving dance and not dancing in fear! 🥲 it’s so sad 

[Balletmummy18]

21 minutes ago, WrapsnBows said:

there is another post by a X RBS Student doing its rounds  she’s in her 2nd year at another vocational ballet school now after 5 years at WL and the video is all about how she didn’t believe in herself at WL and how the new school believes in her and how now she’s been entered into world class competitions and is having an amazing time and is now loving dance and not dancing in fear! 🥲 it’s so sad 

Same for my dd... as she is leaving that establishment this year ..finally after 5 years of silence we can speak out about her terrible experience there which ,of course ,is an individual one.. others in her year had a wonderful happy time and thrived .... my dd has not... I don’t wish to frighten new parents because ultimately It’s impossible to know what  the voc experience will be like for each child but it’s important to have a balanced view in the excitement of finals etc ..
 

[WrapsnBows]

3 minutes ago, Balletmummy18 said:

Same for my dd... as she is leaving that establishment this year ..finally after 5 years of silence we can speak out about her terrible experience there which ,of course ,is an individual one.. others in her year had a wonderful happy time and thrived .... my dd has not... I don’t wish to frighten new parents because ultimately It’s impossible to know what  the voc experience will be like for each child but it’s important to have a balanced view in the excitement of finals etc ..
 

Oh I hope she finds her happy place it’s such a shame that our children are silenced so much 

[Balletmummy18]

Well anywhere will be better than there and I have to add she also had an amazing private teacher who she saw each weekend during her time at the school and who restored her love and faith in ballet and ballet teachers . 

[Peony]

That film was really difficult to watch, so brave and honest. There is so much denial int he ballet world. I’m sure it will be immensely helpful to many struggling in similar situations

[BalletBoyMumma]

That’s heartbreaking. 😞 Treating dancers, especially young dancers, like that shouldn’t be tolerated or accepted at all. 

[Curlypearl]

7 hours ago, WrapsnBows said:

there is another post by a X RBS Student doing its rounds  she’s in her 2nd year at another vocational ballet school now after 5 years at WL and the video is all about how she didn’t believe in herself at WL and how the new school believes in her and how now she’s been entered into world class competitions and is having an amazing time and is now loving dance and not dancing in fear! 🥲 it’s so sad 

Where can I find this please?

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Hi Curlypearl,

It is a series of students affirming they enjoy Kings International on social media. The other school is not stated at all. It is more about the positives they have now. Kings is very supportive.

[Nama]

On 05/03/2021 at 02:37, cotes du rhone ! said:

 

Didn't know where to share this very brave young lady sharing her journey x

 

In my experience, the issues she raised about the operation of the school and how it impacts on the students and makes the students feel is true and she’s not the only one. My daughter was at this school at the same time. The young lady is clearly honest, articulate and brave. Healing starts with openly stating how you feel and moving forward. I wish her all the best. Now it requires the Board of the school to listen and act.  The ballet school industry needs to become more transparent and listen to the students and parents. If your not happy with how they treat your child/ young person now or in the past write to the school and complain. Then things can change. 

[Dancing unicorn]

Unfortunately, it’s not the only school this happens at 😢