Vocational schools yesses and no's

[Crazylifecrazykids]

I've enjoyed reading topics on this forum for a few years and I've become intrigued about something and that's what the schools look for because it seems to me it's not easy to work out! 🤣

So for getting an offer for finals, for examplea child can get a yes for Hammond but a no for Tring, does it happen the other way around? Or a no for Tring but yes for Elmhurst? or visa versa. Would one yes mean more yesses. So is a no from a school a good yard stick for the other schools? but not all?  I'm really unexperienced in this 🤣 Or do all 4 schools look for something different and you just can't second guess, or work out what they may do? I've also read on here that RBS is the one where no one seems to be able to second guess! 

Sorry for the ignorance!! Just interested and what no's form one dance school for DC might mean for the other schools applied for.

 I love this forum because there is so much experience and expertise on it 😁 I find it all really interesting.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Crazylifecrazykids
Make it clearer lol

[balletbean]

1 minute ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

I've enjoyed reading topics on this forum for a few years and I've become intrigued about something and that's what the schools look for because it seems to me it's not easy to work out! 🤣

So for getting an offer for finals, for example can a child get a no for Hammond but a yes for Tring, or the other way around? Or a no for Tring but yes for Elmhurst? Would one yes mean all yes or would one no mean all no. So is a no from a school a good yard stick for the other schools? I'm really unexperienced in this 🤣 Or do all 4 schools look for something different and you just can't second guess, or work out what they may do? I've also read on here that RBS is the one where no one seems to be able to second guess! 

Sorry for the ignorance!! Just interested and what no's form one dance school for DC might mean for the other schools applied for.

 I love this forum because there is so much experience and expertise on it 😁 I find it all really interesting.

In answer to your first question. Yes it is possible to receive a no from one school and and a yes from another. Without knowing the details of the application form no one can really know whether the results were based only on dancing ability/technique or came about due to funding/academic qualifications/accommodation options/interview etc. Just too many possibilities to know for sure. 
Which isn’t unique to Voc Schools. Same happens at MT colleges. 
And we can’t forget Uni students. They too might secure a place at one Uni but then be rejected at another without any explanation. 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

[Crazylifecrazykids]

19 minutes ago, balletbean said:

In answer to your first question. Yes it is possible to receive a no from one school and and a yes from another. Without knowing the details of the application form no one can really know whether the results were based only on dancing ability/technique or came about due to funding/academic qualifications/accommodation options/interview etc. Just too many possibilities to know for sure. 
Which isn’t unique to Voc Schools. Same happens at MT colleges. 
And we can’t forget Uni students. They too might secure a place at one Uni but then be rejected at another without any explanation. 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

Thankyou for that. My general opinion is that there are alot of variables i guess for each school. It's a roller coaster journey and I was trying to see if logic can be applied at all (to help) but after you listing the variables it would seem it can't be worked out why a child's is given a no from one school or a yes from another. We are on this journey for Yr7 and I'm intrigued 🤔 as well as already feel we are doing loops on a roller coaster 🤣 xx

Edited February 7, 2021 by Crazylifecrazykids
To add more info

[balletbean]

7 minutes ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

Thankyou for that. My general opinion is that there are alot of variables i guess for each school. It's a roller coaster journey and I was trying to see if logic can be applied at all (to help) but after you listing the variables it would seem it can't be worked out why a child's is given a no from one school or a yes from another xx

It’s challenging I know but you could look at it the other way. Not all vocational schools suit all DC. Personally I approached the vocational US application process just like I did when choosing the academic schools for my 4 children. 
Whilst I’ve survived the vocational route I’m now embarking on my first uni application process for my youngest 😱 feeling slightly overwhelmed and completely outside my comfort zone 😅

[Crazylifecrazykids]

1 minute ago, balletbean said:

It’s challenging I know but you could look at it the other way. Not all vocational schools suit all DC. Personally I approached the vocational US application process just like I did when choosing the academic schools for my 4 children. 
Whilst I’ve survived the vocational route I’m now embarking on my first uni application process for my youngest 😱 feeling slightly overwhelmed and completely outside my comfort zone 😅

This is very true. We are on the year 7 journey at the moment and haven't even looked at the schools haha! So far we have one we think will really suit DC

Haha yet to do a uni application! Can't manage this lol 🙈 good luck for the university application xx

[balletbean]

17 minutes ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

This is very true. We are on the year 7 journey at the moment and haven't even looked at the schools haha! So far we have one we think will really suit DC

Haha yet to do a uni application! Can't manage this lol 🙈 good luck for the university application xx

Thank you and good luck on your yr7 journey of discovery. Xx

[Crazylifecrazykids]

1 minute ago, balletbean said:

Thank you and good luck on your yr7 journey of discovery. Xx

Thanks! What a fab way to put it 🥰

[margarite]

2 hours ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

I've enjoyed reading topics on this forum for a few years and I've become intrigued about something and that's what the schools look for because it seems to me it's not easy to work out! 🤣

So for getting an offer for finals, for examplea child can get a yes for Hammond but a no for Tring, does it happen the other way around? Or a no for Tring but yes for Elmhurst? or visa versa. Would one yes mean more yesses. So is a no from a school a good yard stick for the other schools? but not all?  I'm really unexperienced in this 🤣 Or do all 4 schools look for something different and you just can't second guess, or work out what they may do? I've also read on here that RBS is the one where no one seems to be able to second guess! 

Sorry for the ignorance!! Just interested and what no's form one dance school for DC might mean for the other schools applied for.

 I love this forum because there is so much experience and expertise on it 😁 I find it all really interesting.

There’s no rhyme or reason! I know of DC who’ve had no’s to Tring and Elmhurst finals but Yes to WL and Mids. Also yeses to Elmhurst, but no’s to the others. There are a few exceptions, who get a full house of offers to choose from, but the vast majority of applicants (if they’re lucky) get one or two finals places, with one place offered.
 

[Crazylifecrazykids]

3 minutes ago, margarite said:

There’s no rhyme or reason! I know of DC who’ve had no’s to Tring and Elmhurst finals but Yes to WL and Mids. Also yeses to Elmhurst, but no’s to the others. There are a few exceptions, who get a full house of offers to choose from, but the vast majority of applicants (if they’re lucky) get one or two finals places, with one place offered.
 

Ahhh ok.. thankyou for that. I've started this journey nievely I feel! 🤣 and well and truly on the roller coaster, just trying to make sense of it all xx

[TwirlyWhirly]

19 minutes ago, margarite said:

There’s no rhyme or reason! I know of DC who’ve had no’s to Tring and Elmhurst finals but Yes to WL and Mids. Also yeses to Elmhurst, but no’s to the others. There are a few exceptions, who get a full house of offers to choose from, but the vast majority of applicants (if they’re lucky) get one or two finals places, with one place offered.
 

Very interesting thread this and thank you for posing the question @Crazylifecrazykids! Yes, for any I've ever heard about (very limited experience though!) I've never heard of anyone getting the 'full house' as you nicely put it. It surely has to be connected to a 'fit'. The 4 or 5 UK dance schools that many of us hapless parents are applying for this year with our DCs do seem to provide a different dance experience and range of dance styles once you are there (if you get in) so I guess they are looking for a different range/ type of student from the outset. They also know the kind of dancer/ person who flourishes at their school, from lots of experience...and that may not be the same for all the schools. Not sure if that helps but good luck with the whole business anyway! 😊

[Crazylifecrazykids]

1 minute ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Very interesting thread this and thank you for posing the question @Crazylifecrazykids! Yes, for any I've ever heard about (very limited experience though!) I've never heard of anyone getting the 'full house' as you nicely put it. It surely has to be connected to a 'fit'. The 4 or 5 UK dance schools that many of us hapless parents are applying for this year with our DCs do seem to provide a different dance experience and range of dance styles once you are there (if you get in) so I guess they are looking for a different range/ type of student from the outset. They also know the kind of dancer/ person who flourishes at their school, from lots of experience...and that may not be the same for all the schools. Not sure if that helps but good luck with the whole business anyway! 😊

That really helps..... I'm just so clueless 🤣 any help gratefully received!! Xx 

[margarite]

12 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Very interesting thread this and thank you for posing the question @Crazylifecrazykids! Yes, for any I've ever heard about (very limited experience though!) I've never heard of anyone getting the 'full house' as you nicely put it. It surely has to be connected to a 'fit'. The 4 or 5 UK dance schools that many of us hapless parents are applying for this year with our DCs do seem to provide a different dance experience and range of dance styles once you are there (if you get in) so I guess they are looking for a different range/ type of student from the outset. They also know the kind of dancer/ person who flourishes at their school, from lots of experience...and that may not be the same for all the schools. Not sure if that helps but good luck with the whole business anyway! 😊

There was a child at my daughter’s school who was offered places at all four MDS schools - with funding! Pretty incredible achievement. 

 

[Whiteduvet]

1) You don’t need to get into all schools (or even more than one). You just need to get into the right school; which may not be the ‘biggest’ name or the one everyone assumes is the best (although obviously it may well be). Every child is different and every school is different: you need the best fit. Look at the bios for the Royal for example: not many did Ja’s/WL/US. Many different routes. The important thing is what suits your child at this point in his/her life. 
 

2) This is a marathon not a sprint. Most children who start even vocationally at 11 won’t make it professionally for many many reasons. And those who start off as the ‘favourites’ may fade over time. They may not but it’s not set in stone in year 7! Whatever they do has to be sustainable which is why (1) is so important. 

[TwirlyWhirly]

Of course @CrazylifecrazykidsIf your DC gets a place somewhere It's a fantastic achievement...but as with any school, it's worth thinking if DC will be happy there. It's just so difficult to form that kind of opinion this year isn't it? 

[The red shoes]

38 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

1) You don’t need to get into all schools (or even more than one). You just need to get into the right school; which may not be the ‘biggest’ name or the one everyone assumes is the best (although obviously it may well be). Every child is different and every school is different: you need the best fit. Look at the bios for the Royal for example: not many did Ja’s/WL/US. Many different routes. The important thing is what suits your child at this point in his/her life. 
 

2) This is a marathon not a sprint. Most children who start even vocationally at 11 won’t make it professionally for many many reasons. And those who start off as the ‘favourites’ may fade over time. They may not but it’s not set in stone in year 7! Whatever they do has to be sustainable which is why (1) is so important. 

You sound very anti - Royal if you don’t mind me saying. Can I ask why?xx

[Crazylifecrazykids]

40 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

1) You don’t need to get into all schools (or even more than one). You just need to get into the right school; which may not be the ‘biggest’ name or the one everyone assumes is the best (although obviously it may well be). Every child is different and every school is different: you need the best fit. Look at the bios for the Royal for example: not many did Ja’s/WL/US. Many different routes. The important thing is what suits your child at this point in his/her life. 
 

2) This is a marathon not a sprint. Most children who start even vocationally at 11 won’t make it professionally for many many reasons. And those who start off as the ‘favourites’ may fade over time. They may not but it’s not set in stone in year 7! Whatever they do has to be sustainable which is why (1) is so important. 

Yes I totally agree. I'm trying hard to understand and the whole process in order to effectively manage DCs expectations and to support  enough to have a go and have enough understanding to protect DC too, if that makes sense. I was curious about the schools. This year we haven't been able to even visit which makes decisions very difficult. I 100% agree the school has to fit the child and this is the most important 😊 i like to be informed to make informed decisions, the dance world does seem tricky to negotiate. So far DC has enjoyed the process and seems very grounded... so hopefully I've done something right 🙈😂x

Edited February 7, 2021 by Crazylifecrazykids

[Dance.Mum]

4 minutes ago, margarite said:

There was a child at my daughter’s school who was offered places at all four MDS schools - with funding! Pretty incredible achievement. 

 

DCs friend was in the same position with four offers.  They had a favourite school going into the process but then changed their mind after the offers were in.  Fast forward and they are now in the favourite school.  Not all schools are the right fit and there is some movement between schools.  Another friend had four finals and three offers with the no being from their preferred school. They are really happy with their final choice and can’t imagine bring anywhere else.

[Crazylifecrazykids]

22 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Of course @CrazylifecrazykidsIf your DC gets a place somewhere It's a fantastic achievement...but as with any school, it's worth thinking if DC will be happy there. It's just so difficult to form that kind of opinion this year isn't it? 

It really is.... its surreal applying for schools where I am relying on virtual tours and websites to get a "feel" 

DC seeming to enjoy the process so far and is quite grounded x

[balletbean]

57 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

1) You don’t need to get into all schools (or even more than one). You just need to get into the right school; which may not be the ‘biggest’ name or the one everyone assumes is the best (although obviously it may well be). Every child is different and every school is different: you need the best fit. Look at the bios for the Royal for example: not many did Ja’s/WL/US. Many different routes. The important thing is what suits your child at this point in his/her life. 
 

2) This is a marathon not a sprint. Most children who start even vocationally at 11 won’t make it professionally for many many reasons. And those who start off as the ‘favourites’ may fade over time. They may not but it’s not set in stone in year 7! Whatever they do has to be sustainable which is why (1) is so important. 

I’ve been very mindful of one particular reason for some leaving after entering vocational school at 11. On most applications for US that we filled in they ask for the height of the parents. I presume this would be the same for Lower Schools I presume it’s for the schools to predict pupils potential fully grown height.  If that had been the case with my four we would have had to throw out that rule book. At 11 yrs old all but my eldest were by far the smallest in their respective yr groups at school and continued to be so until their GCSE yrs then all of a sudden. 😮The eldest ended up being the shortest at 5ft5. Her 3 younger siblings are now 5ft8, 6ft and 6ft 2 with both parents are 5ft7! 😳

Nothing much any of us can do about good old Mother Nature. 
 

Edited February 7, 2021 by balletbean

[TwirlyWhirly]

1 minute ago, balletbean said:

I’ve been very mindful of one particular reason for some leaving after entering vocational school at 11. On most applications that we filled in they ask for the height of the parents. I presume this is for the schools to predict the possible fully grown height of the DC. If that had been the case with my four we would have had to throw out that rule book. At 11 yrs old all but my eldest were by far the smallest in their respective yr groups at school and continued to be so until their GCSE yrs then all of a sudden. 😮The eldest ended up being the shortest at 5ft5. Her 3 younger siblings are now 5ft8, 6ft and 6ft 2 with both parents are 5ft7! 😳

Nothing much any of us can do about good old Mother Nature. 
 

Interesting! I'm just glad they didn't also ask for the weight of the parents! 🤣

[balletbean]

Just now, TwirlyWhirly said:

Interesting! I'm just glad they didn't also ask for the weight of the parents! 🤣

Ha ha. Absolutely. 🤣

[Crazylifecrazykids]

5 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Interesting! I'm just glad they didn't also ask for the weight of the parents! 🤣

🤣🤣 and me! 

[TwirlyWhirly]

1 minute ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

🤣🤣 and me! 

Just hope we get to meet at an audition somehow this year @Crazylifecrazykids I think we might have a lot in common! Love reading this forum to hear about everyone's journeys with their DCs! 😁

[balletbean]

14 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Interesting! I'm just glad they didn't also ask for the weight of the parents! 🤣

Just as a ps on height. 
Phantom of the Opera were recently auditioning for classically trained female dancers for their cast. The information was quite strict on their maximum height requirement of 5ft6. Reality kicked in for my 5ft8 DD in her graduate year. More hurdles to jump over, with pointed toes obviously . 🙆‍♀️

Edited February 7, 2021 by balletbean

[WhatsThePointe]

My DD is at Elmhurst but didn't make finals for WL, or even get MAs (she got waitlist).  She often says she is so pleased as it wouldn't have been the right place for her. 

[taxi4ballet]

30 minutes ago, The red shoes said:

You sound very anti - Royal if you don’t mind me saying. Can I ask why?xx

I don't think that was the intention at all. The poster was just saying that even at Royal (which people think of as a feeder school into the company) only some students who start in Y7 will make it all the way through the system and become professionals.

[Crazylifecrazykids]

13 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Just hope we get to meet at an audition somehow this year @Crazylifecrazykids I think we might have a lot in common! Love reading this forum to hear about everyone's journeys with their DCs! 😁

Me too and that would be nice x

[Bluebird22]

Do parents heights on the form really make any difference ? What about those children who don’t know their parents ? It’s not like the schools can actually check the height of the parent matches what is on the form. 

[Lifeafterballet]

30 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Interesting! I'm just glad they didn't also ask for the weight of the parents! 🤣

I too previously would have laughed at your post, and don’t get me wrong, I’m not being horrid, but our experience has made us feel very cautious about the ballet world. 
 

As a family we didn’t even have scales in our home. Never calculated a BMI or felt the need too. Then Dd entered year 9 of vocational training, the stressful assessing out year, and her BMI became a huge part of our lives 😞 The following regular “heights and weights” in Med Centre and the threats to take her off dance and punishingly make her watch her peers😢 The monitoring and prescription build up drinks. The nasty comments, tears and isolation. Anyone would think that in ballet this was a new phenomenon. Disorders of eating and body dysmorphia are common place in our experience. That year was when the damage was done 😖 Six years on and we are still dealing with the ghosts of that time. All the perceived success in the world can’t put it right.

 

I really hate to be the grim reaper in what it seems are a majority of my posts but I feel that there isn’t a balanced sharing of experiences in the ballet world. Perhaps we need a breakthrough 🤔
 

[Lifeafterballet]

And on the actual topic in discussion, Dd got a no for WL and Elmhurst for year 7. We were very green, she only did one ballet class a week til aged 10, then JAs in year 6.  She  was spotted 3 months later and offered an MDS place. We thought we were the luckiest people in the world. We have seen a huge amount of students pass through her year group, moving on for a whole variety of reasons. Getting in is the first rung of a very tall ladder with an unknown destination xx 

[Whiteduvet]

8 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

I don't think that was the intention at all. The poster was just saying that even at Royal (which people think of as a feeder school into the company) only some students who start in Y7 will make it all the way through the system and become professionals.

Absolutely. I’m not anti Royal at all (I had a wonderful time there....;) ). I’m simply saying that believing a place there at year 7 guarantees the dream isn’t correct and people shouldn’t go into the process assuming that. The JA/WL/US was just an example of how people may assume everything is sorted based on what happens at 11, and that’s not true at all: reading through the threads on this forum will tell you that!

 

In the same way, believing that a place at WL is the be all and end all isn’t correct either: for some it is the best school, for others it isn’t, and parents and children should seriously consider which school best suits them, rather than the girl next to them at the barre!! Royal is a wonderful wonderful place in many ways, but so are the other schools, and all of them can lead to success. 

[Flower]

7 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

And on the actual topic in discussion, Dd got a no for WL and Elmhurst for year 7. We were very green, she only did one ballet class a week til aged 10, then JAs in year 6.  She  was spotted 3 months later and offered an MDS place. We thought we were the luckiest people in the world. We have seen a huge amount of students pass through her year group, moving on for a whole variety of reasons. Getting in is the first rung of a very tall ladder with an unknown destination xx 

Where was that MDA from please?

[Flower]

I know a boy who got a straight No from Hammond - but an MDA to Elmhurst! So no you can’t really tell what they want 🤔. Equally my dd got finals at all three that we applied to last year but no funding 😕. Do be prepared guys. It was all much harder than I expected. I think it’s actually easier emotionally *not* to go around the schools first.  X