Vocational schools yesses and no's

[Lifeafterballet]

58 minutes ago, Flower said:

Where was that MDA from please?

The MDS offer was from Elmhurst. They had already chosen their 12 girls in the March, Dd was number 13. This was from a time when they had a set number of students for year 7 x

Edited February 8, 2021 by cotes du rhone !

[Raquelle]

Thanks all the posters so far. Watching this thread with interest as another prospective year 7...we can only afford it if DD gets MDS so we are going in with low expectations. She didn't dance competitively at all last year and only joined JAs this year so I suppose I feel we are quite late to the table. We have gone into the process with low expectations, but having said that, it is already a bit of en emotional rollercoaster! Thanks for everyone's honesty and to @cotes du rhone !I have been reading your life after ballet thread too and think it is important that we all go into the process with eyes wide open. Xx

[Bunny]

This all makes for really interesting reading, thanks for posting this thread! I wish there was a way we could tell, but I agree in that I don’t think there is and all we can do is see what happens! At least it’s only a few weeks now until we know if our DDs and DSs have made finals at RBS and Elmhurst. Then hopefully we can all move on to stressing about final auditions! 😂🤞🏻

[Bunny]

Just now, Raquelle said:

Thanks all the posters so far. Watching this thread with interest as another prospective year 7...we can only afford it if DD gets MDS so we are going in with low expectations. She didn't dance competitively at all last year and only joined JAs this year so I suppose I feel we are quite late to the table. We have gone into the process with low expectations, but having said that, it is already a bit of en emotional rollercoaster! Thanks for everyone's honesty and to @cotes du rhone !I have been reading your life after ballet thread too and think it is important that we all go into the process with eyes wide open. Xx

I have often worried about this too in the past. My DS had never set foot in a dance studio until 3 years ago. He did start JA’s in Y5 but definitely doesn’t have the long years of experience some children have by 11. All they can do is their best and I’m sure your DD is really talented  I think they’re all amazing kids to be so hardworking and determined!

[rowan]

Just to emphasise some points above - ballet is a long game. What happens with an 11-year-old may have little relevance to the outcome at 19. Most British dancers I know did not go to vocational school at 11, and, of those that did, most left partway through their time there. My DD got noes for JAs, MAs and summer school.  She never went to vocational school at all. Yet she is a successful professional ballet dancer.  If you’re looking at yesses and noes, the only ones that really matter are the ones for jobs. I have seen many, many talented young dancers (much more talented than mine at a young age) fall by the wayside. Most have to/ want to take up other paths. Do not think that just because you get into school x at 11, that it means you’ll end up on pathway x. 

[Farawaydancer]

It’s impossible to second guess what will happen. My ds didn’t start until he was 8, three classes a week when he auditioned at 10 and got an mds from one and no finals anywhere else! Dd has an mds at her school but looking at her classmates I see few reasons why some of them got funding and others didn’t.  

[Ms Sunshine]

No for Tring CBA then a yes the next year. Then finals for Tring and a mds offer. Hammond mds offer. Royal ja no for year 4,5 and 6. No for all intensives. Yes for royal finals and call back. Yes for BRB Nutcracker child. Yes for Elmhurst Young dancers and Elmhurst mds offer. Lots and lots of other yes and no along the way.

[margarite]

2 hours ago, Farawaydancer said:

It’s impossible to second guess what will happen. My ds didn’t start until he was 8, three classes a week when he auditioned at 10 and got an mds from one and no finals anywhere else! Dd has an mds at her school but looking at her classmates I see few reasons why some of them got funding and others didn’t.  

Funding decisions aren’t always right. One of DDs friends didn’t get an MDS for year 7, which DD couldn’t understand as she was clearly one of the best at ballet (and other genres) and hardworking, too. I saw for myself at parents evening how good she was. Luckily it was rectified as she was awarded one further up the school. 

Maybe she didn’t perform as well in the auditions? Or her potential bloomed between auditions and starting year 7? Who knows. 

[balletbean]

3 hours ago, Raquelle said:

Thanks all the posters so far. Watching this thread with interest as another prospective year 7...we can only afford it if DD gets MDS so we are going in with low expectations. She didn't dance competitively at all last year and only joined JAs this year so I suppose I feel we are quite late to the table. We have gone into the process with low expectations, but having said that, it is already a bit of en emotional rollercoaster! Thanks for everyone's honesty and to @cotes du rhone !I have been reading your life after ballet thread too and think it is important that we all go into the process with eyes wide open. Xx

A local teenager from my area was accepted at an US having only trained locally. We aren’t eligible for any funding for LS’s. She’s embraced the opportunity with both hands. Having since undertaken additional holiday programmes within the Uk and Europe (before our life was put on hold😷). 
Just seen images of her recent photo shoot 😳. The transformation is phenomenal  👏🏻
I am certainly not disrespecting LS but trying to show some positivity out of what can some be seen as a devastating blow to a child and the end to a dream, it’s not the the end. A NO could be seen rather as a ‘not at this moment in time’ which can be a motivating factor to strive harder, dig a little deeper to know it will happen. Using the experience that every dancer will no doubt receive at some point in their future career. 
Never give up. 
Good Luck to all those embarking on their LS/US journey this year. 🤞🏼

 

[Farawaydancer]

1 hour ago, margarite said:

Funding decisions aren’t always right. One of DDs friends didn’t get an MDS for year 7, which DD couldn’t understand as she was clearly one of the best at ballet (and other genres) and hardworking, too. I saw for myself at parents evening how good she was. Luckily it was rectified as she was awarded one further up the school. 

Maybe she didn’t perform as well in the auditions? Or her potential bloomed between auditions and starting year 7? Who knows. 

Yes, who knows is quite right. I can’t work it out so I’ve stopped trying. Luckily my two have been on the right end of the decisions but I still don’t understand them sometimes. 

[TwirlyWhirly]

14 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I too previously would have laughed at your post, and don’t get me wrong, I’m not being horrid, but our experience has made us feel very cautious about the ballet world. 
 

As a family we didn’t even have scales in our home. Never calculated a BMI or felt the need too. Then Dd entered year 9 of vocational training, the stressful assessing out year, and her BMI became a huge part of our lives 😞 The following regular “heights and weights” in Med Centre and the threats to take her off dance and punishingly make her watch her peers😢 The monitoring and prescription build up drinks. The nasty comments, tears and isolation. Anyone would think that in ballet this was a new phenomenon. Disorders of eating and body dysmorphia are common place in our experience. That year was when the damage was done 😖 Six years on and we are still dealing with the ghosts of that time. All the perceived success in the world can’t put it right.

 

I really hate to be the grim reaper in what it seems are a majority of my posts but I feel that there isn’t a balanced sharing of experiences in the ballet world. Perhaps we need a breakthrough 🤔
 

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Clearly there is a much unhappier, darker side to the ballet world which I had not really been aware of (being quite a novice). I'm sorry to hear about your distressing experiences and it is important that these are shared so, as parents, we can be prepared for what may come. This forum is a good place to have that balanced view seen and discussed. My apologies, I did not mean my remarks to make light of anyone else's situation. I wish your DD well and hope she is on the road to recovery... 

Edited February 8, 2021 by TwirlyWhirly

[Lifeafterballet]

13 minutes ago, TwirlyWhirly said:

Thanks for the heads-up on this. Clearly there is a much unhappier, darker side to the ballet world which I had not really been aware of (being quite a novice). I'm sorry to hear about your distressing experiences and it is important that these are shared so, as parents, we can be prepared for what may come. This forum is a good place to have that balanced view seen and discussed. My apologies, I did not mean my remarks to make light of anyone else's situation. I wish your DD well and hope she is on the road to recovery... 

 

You don’t have any reason to apologise ☺️ We too were very novice when we first started on our journey. We don’t want to put people off vocational training, just try to help parents and their dc prepare for the inevitable bumps along the way. There is so much shame and embarrassment around struggling, “ It is ok, not to be ok.” We need to start talking about and sharing our experiences no slopping off quietly into the night. Dds journey had its up and downs and she had some fantastic and inspiration teachers, ballet and academic ones, along the way. And then there are the ones who just shouldn’t teach, it obviously pains them 😏x

[WrapsnBows]

My DD Studied local never tried for associates as her dance teacher told her she wasn’t strong enough, even at 16 was told it was not for her but she carried on and carried on and turned up to class even when she was ignored by the teacher and @18 she applied for 4 collages as we couldn’t afford any more she got offered a foundation at Laine and that was it her dreams were gone until I met a local dancer who was in her 2nd year at

the Hammond told my DD to apply so she did late August for the BA, asked to send in self tapes and she’s never looked back she’s now in her 3rd year now and loving it, who knows what her future holds,  Vocational schools are not all what they seem to be I have seen so many drop out or not progressed as much as they are required to, the extra pressure builds up.     

 

[Farawaydancer]

How easy/difficult is it for U.K. dancers to get US visas? Slowly realising graduation is on the horizon in the next two years and I know nothing about all of this! 🤦🏼‍♀️

[Lifeafterballet]

40 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

How easy/difficult is it for U.K. dancers to get US visas? Slowly realising graduation is on the horizon in the next two years and I know nothing about all of this! 🤦🏼‍♀️

Dd flew to Florida last February to audition for 3 companies. Her brother was already at one of them. She was offered a junior contract at another and the ballet company applied for the visa petition in March. It cost us just short of $1000 and took until October to come through.
Ds flew home at the end of March following the closure of his company due to Covid. His visa, for this season, was paid for by the company and his petition came through in May. The US embassy in London, where you have to arrange a face to face interview, following receiving your visa petition, more £££, kept rescheduling his appointments until they finally closed with a proposed opening date of August 2021. So nether could fly to the US. Dds company have been performing since before Christmas and Dss have not yet recalled their international dancers and continue to perform with the 12 local ones they kept on. I can’t see anything changing in the US for some time yet. 
Also, flying to the US for auditions isn’t cheap and most are very very busy open ones. You need to do your research thoroughly before getting in a plane. I am happy to share our experiences xx
 

[Farawaydancer]

3 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

Dd flew to Florida last February to audition for 3 companies. Her brother was already at one of them. She was offered a junior contract at another and the ballet company applied for the visa petition in March. It cost us just short of $1000 and took until October to come through.
Ds flew home at the end of March following the closure of his company due to Covid. His visa, for this season, was paid for by the company and his petition came through in May. The US embassy in London, where you have to arrange a face to face interview, following receiving your visa petition, more £££, kept rescheduling his appointments until they finally closed with a proposed opening date of August 2021. So nether could fly to the US. Dds company have been performing since before Christmas and Dss have not yet recalled their international dancers and continue to perform with the 12 local ones they kept on. I can’t see anything changing in the US for some time yet. 
Also, flying to the US for auditions isn’t cheap and most are very very busy open ones. You need to do your research thoroughly before getting in a plane. I am happy to share our experiences xx
 

 Thank you, it sounds like a complete nightmare tbh! I’m really not looking forward to it. 

[Lifeafterballet]

2 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

 Thank you, it sounds like a complete nightmare tbh! I’m really not looking forward to it. 

Ds is now in Europe, which was a lot easier, but that was pre-Brexit x

[rowan]

When mine was first auditioning, she had offers of auditions in the US. We turned them all down on cost grounds. We were also concerned about the difficulty of getting a visa. 

[Lifeafterballet]

5 minutes ago, rowan said:

When mine was first auditioning, she had offers of auditions in the US. We turned them all down on cost grounds. We were also concerned about the difficulty of getting a visa. 

I think it depends on the company. Dss company paid for his application and Dds didn’t, but both were passed by the home office. I think the difficulty is in the audition process and the quantity and level of the competition x

[rowan]

Sorry, I meant the cost of the flights to audition, not the cost of a visa. The cost of flights to the US was too much for us.

[Pirouette]

16 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I think it depends on the company. Dss company paid for his application and Dds didn’t, but both were passed by the home office. I think the difficulty is in the audition process and the quantity and level of the competition x

The company should pay for this.  The problem always used to be that US visa applications for company contracts often got turned down, not that the company didn't want the dancers.  A certain US ballet company used to do an annual audition in London/Paris and there were always stories of dancers being offered contracts but later denied visas, even from RBS, Paris Opera School etc, because the authorities said no.  The reason given was usually that they didn't have enough experience.  This was a while back and may have changed since then though.  

[Lifeafterballet]

50 minutes ago, Pirouette said:

The company should pay for this.  The problem always used to be that US visa applications for company contracts often got turned down, not that the company didn't want the dancers.  A certain US ballet company used to do an annual audition in London/Paris and there were always stories of dancers being offered contracts but later denied visas, even from RBS, Paris Opera School etc, because the authorities said no.  The reason given was usually that they didn't have enough experience.  This was a while back and may have changed since then though.  

I think it depends on the size of the company as to whether they pay for the petition or not. Both my children were graduates and there was no problem with the visa, just Covid closing the London US Embassy. A lot of the dancers in both companies were not from the US, they were all listed on the same petition. 
I think this year the US ballet company jobs will go to Americans as no one else can fly in to complete 😞

[Pirouette]

3 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

I think it depends on the size of the company as to whether they pay for the petition or not. Both my children were graduates and there was no problem with the visa, just Covid closing the London US Embassy. A lot of the dancers in both companies were not from the US, they were all listed on the same petition. 
I think this year the US ballet company jobs will go to Americans as no one else can fly in to complete 😞

That's good to hear, that sounds a lot more hopeful for UK graduates, once the covid crisis resolves.  The US has some great companies.  

 

Congratulations to your children for getting the offers! 

[Lifeafterballet]

https://ibb.co/BKJV80g
https://ibb.co/NK16vLr
https://ibb.co/ygVNCV6
https://ibb.co/X2mc8mB

I hope that this has come out in the right order.

 

I just wanted to share with you how important Easter and summer schools are in your child’s development. It’s not all about vocational training, yess and nos. My Ds would not be where he is today without the support and encouragement of MBS. They believed in him. This is what it meant to him in his own words on Instagram ❤️
Read in order 1,3,2,4 x

Edited February 9, 2021 by cotes du rhone !

[Lifeafterballet]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CF-QUQ-g1L6/?igshid=17m4kbt6vfdz4

[BellaF]

8 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CF-QUQ-g1L6/?igshid=17m4kbt6vfdz4

 

A friend whose daughter is final year US also raves about MBS. DD was booked on Easter and Summer last year until the obvious happened 😪 Think Easter will almost certain be written off now but really hope summer goes ahead, not just for us but for the lovely person who runs it.

Edited February 9, 2021 by BellaF

[Lisa O`Brien]

On 09/02/2021 at 00:54, cotes du rhone ! said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CF-QUQ-g1L6/?igshid=17m4kbt6vfdz4

Is this your son, cotes? Fab photo. 

[Lifeafterballet]

7 minutes ago, Lisa O`Brien said:

Is this your son, cotes? Fab photo. 

Yep ☺️

[Lara Eschler]

On 07/02/2021 at 17:11, Crazylifecrazykids said:

I've enjoyed reading topics on this forum for a few years and I've become intrigued about something and that's what the schools look for because it seems to me it's not easy to work out! 🤣

So for getting an offer for finals, for examplea child can get a yes for Hammond but a no for Tring, does it happen the other way around? Or a no for Tring but yes for Elmhurst? or visa versa. Would one yes mean more yesses. So is a no from a school a good yard stick for the other schools? but not all?  I'm really unexperienced in this 🤣 Or do all 4 schools look for something different and you just can't second guess, or work out what they may do? I've also read on here that RBS is the one where no one seems to be able to second guess! 

Sorry for the ignorance!! Just interested and what no's form one dance school for DC might mean for the other schools applied for.

 I love this forum because there is so much experience and expertise on it 😁 I find it all really interesting.

This whole process is really hard on parents, isn't it? I try to be very objective about my dc, but obviously that is not that easy. My DS got in Tring but no funding, to be fair he did not have a proper solo and initially I had said we did not need funding on the application (but asked to add him later). In my opinion, Tring looks for children who are already performers and maybe for children who have performing experience (such as festivals competitions, or even musicals). Anyway, so we are very happy to have an offer albeit without funding.  The Hammond, we are delighted to have been considered for funding and to have a place as with the jazz, solo and vocals requested I really did not think he would be considered. 

[Crazylifecrazykids]

1 minute ago, Lara Eschler said:

This whole process is really hard on parents, isn't it? I try to be very objective about my dc, but obviously that is not that easy. My DS got in Tring but no funding, to be fair he did not have a proper solo and initially I had said we did not need funding on the application (but asked to add him later). In my opinion, Tring looks for children who are already performers and maybe for children who have performing experience (such as festivals competitions, or even musicals). Anyway, so we are very happy to have an offer albeit without funding.  The Hammond, we are delighted to have been considered for funding and to have a place as with the jazz, solo and vocals requested I really did not think he would be considered. 

It tougher than I expected. I too entered into this as objective as I could and did DC we were so happy to receive a place at Hammond and mds final like yourselves. Congratulations for both your results 😊 i think we've written off the other 2 now as DC got a no for Tring. Xx

[Lara Eschler]

2 minutes ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

It tougher than I expected. I too entered into this as objective as I could and did DC we were so happy to receive a place at Hammond and mds final like yourselves. Congratulations for both your results 😊 i think we've written off the other 2 now as DC got a no for Tring. Xx

I think the other two might be more about body type and facility as especially for boys you hear of children getting places with very little previous dance training or from a gymnastics background. I think I have made a decision and it isn't for any of the schools listed above but I think it is the best fir for my ds. 

[Crazylifecrazykids]

2 minutes ago, Lara Eschler said:

I think the other two might be more about body type and facility as especially for boys you hear of children getting places with very little previous dance training or from a gymnastics background. I think I have made a decision and it isn't for any of the schools listed above but I think it is the best fir for my ds. 

We have an idea what would suit our DC best too and that's what its all about 😊 

[Bunny]

30 minutes ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

We have an idea what would suit our DC best too and that's what its all about 😊 

It’s so hard! I feel a bit like we are in limbo at the moment with not knowing if they’ve made finals at the other two schools. And it’s hard to know which school is the right fit when we haven’t been able to visit. My DS knows where he wants to go, he has from the very start, but I wonder if had he visited the schools would he still think the same? It’s hard to know!