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rowan

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Everything posted by rowan

  1. @Kerfuffle I’m afraid I can’t help re contemporary. DD did all her classes at her dance school. She didn’t do any master classes or SIs. Well, she did the week summer course in her mid-teens once at Elmhurst and once at ENBS. But that was it. Nothing abroad. I’m a bit -very - woolly on the distinctions between contemporary, modern ballet and neoclassical ballet. She was offered jobs in modern ballet companies and neoclassical companies, so what she had was enough for those, but she definitely felt contemporary per se was a weaker area for her. She danced in Balanchine ballets, and newly choreographed works, as well as the traditional classics, so was OK for those too. As an aside, I wouldn’t necessarily focus on the Russian method as being the be-all and end-all - ie, learn that and you’ll be successful. To me, there seems to be a bit of a craze going on. It doesn’t work like that. Loads of Russian-method-trained dancers aren’t successful either. There just aren’t anywhere near enough jobs to go round.
  2. Thanks @Pas de Quatre Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack the thread!
  3. I will say that DD is now at the stage of pulling away from ballet. She had her contract renewed for the third time but isn’t going to continue. She has danced professionally full time in good companies with good conditions and wages for four-five years, mainly corps but some soloist roles. Whether you think that is a decent amount of time, it’s hard to tell. Many of her friends lasted much less. I once read that the average life of a dancer (not sure if that’s ballet specific or not) was seven years. I have been on this forum for many years and I always said when the end was in sight, I would say. And here it is.
  4. No, her classes were always group classes, never one to one, and there was a vocational stream. In her teens, she was one of the weaker members of the ballet group for years. Instead of three years that is normal at an upper school in the U.K., she took four years post-16 doing academics and ballet and a part-time job, so she was older than most graduating ballet students. But as lots of ballet students now seem to do a post-grad year or junior company, that seemed not to matter much. Yes, she has a very classical-looking physique, but has weak points too that she really has to work on. I wouldn’t focus on physique as an issue - as I said, you can be “too classical”, and that can be disadvantageous when looking for jobs. Yes, her teachers were either Russian or from former Soviet bloc countries. They don’t work any more, so the system that DD trained under isn’t available. DD happened to be there at the right time. You don’t need to be super good at 14 or 16. No one’s hiring children. Why it worked for us was the frequency and quality of classes and that it was close by and they offered bursaries and scholarships. DD could come home from school, do two-three hours of ballet an evening, and most of Saturday. She got all A, A* in all GCSEs and A levels. We didn’t expect DD to make it. It was a slightly all-too-consuming hobby. Still, yet again, I’d say be careful what you wish for. Easier said than done, but best not put all your heart and soul into ballet. I’ve said it endlessly on this forum before -if you send your child to vocational school from age 11, best regard it as a normal school that specialises in dance. And keep in mind that most children accepted won’t make it as a classical ballet dancer. That applies to any vocational school in the world.
  5. Yes, style and director preferences can make a difference. DD made at least the last round everywhere she auditioned, so something in general was right. But to bring back to the subject of vocational school or not, the difference between US training and UK is that most dance schools here don’t offer in general anywhere near enough classes of the right level to be able to progress. You need to have class five-six days a week, and of a decent length. 45 minutes twice a week isn’t going to cut it. And for those wondering why DD didn’t go to vocational school - and did we make a studied choice over what to do - she simply wouldn’t have got in. Definitely not at 11. She’d only been dancing for a couple of years. At 16, no way would she have got RBS or ENBS she thinks. She wasn’t good enough. Possibly could have got the likes of Central -we don’t know, though. But she was sure at that point that if she went there, she wouldn’t make it as a classical ballet dancer. She didn’t apply to any vocational schools, ever. It was only when she started auditioning for jobs that we realised it could work out.
  6. @Kerfuffle She just applied for every audition going. She was very dedicated and organised. We ruled out anywhere in the US, as it was too expensive to travel there. Her teacher helped her get a couple of auditions, but no job offers came from those. I’m sure there were auditions she was never offered, because she had not attended a known school, but she had to do the best she could. Her auditions were virtually all cattle call. She seemed to get enough audition offers and had a (small) choice of job offers. At the auditions, it doesn’t matter where people trained. Her first ever audition, one of the big German companies, she made the final five, and they wanted four. Those places went to Vaganova graduates and one from elsewhere -don’t know where. That’s the level expected. Remember, at auditions, dancers are up against not just new graduates, but established dancers from other companies, even soloists. But company life can wear thin. Dancers quit, quite often. DD was Russian-method trained. She still thinks if she had been to a well known upper school like the RBS, or possibly ENBS, it would have been easier.
  7. I mean Russian schools abroad. I know of non-Russians who attended these schools who never found a job, or who left ballet after one year of company life. In DD’s company, they only took I think only one new company member from the national affiliated ballet school, but several foreigners. So, obviously, there’s mutterings there about the quality of training or the quality of the graduating students - the same as everywhere else. Having a big-name school on your CV will open doors, though, at least for auditions. Once in the audition, that’s a different matter.
  8. I would be wary about foreigners training at the big Russian schools too. It’s not necessarily a marker of future success either, though it may feel like it, I’m sure, at the time. Again, it may be different for girls than boys. DD has known a few along the way who trained this way -not necessarily British - and although it may be the case that the very talented get jobs with relative ease, it’s also the case that some quit ballet within a year or so - as with many, many ballet students, no matter their nationality or where they trained.
  9. No, my DD didn’t go away to train at 16 either. But she was at a very, very good local school. I would also say that she was never accepted as a JA, MA or offered RBS summer school or do any competitions. She didn’t do an apprenticeship or junior company. One thing I would say is the importance of contemporary ballet. It’s really important. DD is very “classical” but you can be “too classical” and that will narrow your job options, or if you get hired, you might not be cast in those contemporary performances. Even large national ballet companies will do contemporary.
  10. I don’t comment so much on this forum these days, but I’ll say here that my DD is a ballet dancer and didn’t go to vocational school or have any private lessons either. Whether it’s harder now, I can’t say for sure, as I’m not in the loop. But what’s interesting to me is that out of all the companies DD has worked for -two of which are large national companies abroad - she was the only British female dancer employed. In a couple of them, there was a British male dancer, I think from RBS. On the audition circuit, she did come across other British girls, but they never ended up at the same company she was at. Perhaps that’s to be expected -so many dancers chasing so few jobs. However, within her companies, other countries had several of their nationalities employed. Brazilians and Italians seem to do very well.
  11. I know of someone who was in the “wrong” year. They were put in the year below and they stayed in that “wrong” year all the way through, including upper school (at a different school).
  12. Meant to add, we did not top up DD’s salary, but it’s probable that some dancers were topped up, judging by the sort of flats they rented. It’s also worth considering, if abroad, the cost of trips home.
  13. This is a bit of a “how long is a piece of string” question and depends on the living costs of the country and what might be included in the salary. A few years ago now, but DD didn’t do an apprenticeship or post grad training course and went straight into paid employment. One job paid well -about 25k, I think. Another job (national company) paid much less and looked awful on paper, but accommodation in the capital city was provided, and all bills, including broadband, were paid for her. Imagine a sort of university halls set-up, but she had the whole flat to herself. Also, access to staff canteen with three meals a day at a nominal charge. A lot of support by the company in general. This job needed a visa, which the company sorted and paid for. Another job (national company) paid much more, enough to rent a large flat by herself in the centre of a European capital city, but she needed to set up and pay all bills herself. Two of the jobs had performance fees, where you are paid on top of your salary depending on if you are cast and the role you dance on stage. A run of 30 Nutcrackers can add a lot to your salary. At no stage was DD living out of a suitcase and sleeping on a sofa.
  14. I can’t share personally, but the handful I know that did go to vocational school and were assessed out all still became professional dancers.
  15. rowan

    Fingers

    What a brilliant post, Valentina.
  16. 45 minutes weekly - but that isn’t a really a lot - if that’s the only dancing they are doing and there are no other classes.
  17. What kind of training did she do? She did Russian method, but didn’t do any exams.
  18. Dd became a professional ballet dancer without doing any exams.
  19. The problem is the focus on exams and the hold that the RAD in particular has. It’s endemic in the UK, but irrelevant in most of the rest of the world. I can see lots of good reasons for exams, but also huge downsides.
  20. My DD did levels, much as described, through an outreach scheme. She started mid-way through y3 and finished at the end of y6. There were three levels, I think, and all children moved up the levels at the same time. Classes were an hour long, I think, once a week. No way did it take 100 hours to complete a level. Amongst the ballet technique classes, they also did workshops, choreography, creative dance, costume design, theatre tours etc. At the end of level 3, we were told the next type of class to do would be RAD grade 5. After the outreach scheme finished, and some trial and error to find classes that suited, we ended up at a Russian-method school.
  21. Even with famed schools such as this, I know graduates from top schools who went straight into jobs in major national companies but still quit dancing relatively quickly. It’s been quite an eye-opener to me.
  22. Also worth remembering that many/some dancers who do get contracts, even in well-established companies with good conditions and pay, decide to stop dancing after quite a short time. I know of several who chose to stop after just one or two years of dancing professionally.
  23. I know a few who were offered this, but none who took it up.
  24. We didn’t pay for costumes or pay production fees. The school had lots of costumes but we still didn’t have to pay to borrow them. All we did was buy tickets for shows - in a theatre - which weren’t particularly cheap, but fine.
  25. But dancers can’t wait five years after graduation. It’s a young person’s job and has a short shelf life. It’s not the same as being an actor, painter or writer.
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