rowan

My DD didn’t go to vocational lower school. She went to a normal comprehensive school and, after school, a good-quality local dance school which also could offer enough lessons. As it was local, it didn’t require any commitment from us as parents to fetch and carry, and she was on a large discount to help with the fees. She didn’t do any private lessons or take any ballet exams either. She did do a couple of summer schools in her early teens - more just to see if she felt she was on the right path. She’s now a professional ballet dancer.

I’m a ballet mum and will try to address some of your comments in the order you made them. Going to a good academic school and having high predicted grades is a great position to be in. Getting the best academic results you can is really important for the future - it will give you choices, because whether you become a dancer or not, at some point a dancer’s career ends. No doubt this is something your parents are aware of and why it might appear that they are unsupportive, or indeed actually are unsupportive. Many parents will be anxious about their child wanting to set out on a precarious and short career in the performing arts. Elmhurst does offer A-levels but the choice will be more limited compared to a normal school and it may not offer subjects which you wish to study or are good at. This is a valid concern of any parent. Have you looked to see what is on offer? Would those subjects appeal? Realistically, if you’ve only been dancing - I assume you mean just ballet - for two years, you will be at a big disadvantage, as most young dancers will have been training since at least the mid-primary years and competition for a place will be fierce. Your guide here should be your dance teacher. What do they think of your potential? Have you told them of your aspirations? Have you ever auditioned for any associate schemes or youth ballets? I would leave how you look out of the equation for now. However, some physical facilities are really important for ballet; some of those you have no control over, and others need to be worked on for years. You might not need every single one of them, but you will need some. In a school like Elmhurst, the fees are means tested for talented pupils, so in theory if you were offered a place with an award, your parents wouldn’t have to pay full fees if your parents are low income. However, you said you don’t think you’d qualify for a fee reduction, so that doesn’t really tie in with the low-income bit, but your parents might have all sorts of financial commitments that you might not necessarily know about. Elmhurst is a private school and your parents still might not be willing for you to attend, for all sorts of reasons, no matter what the fees are. When you say your parents say you will have to get the train to school, do you mean Elmhurst? Most pupils there will board and not travel in daily. I’m not sure that day pupils are an option. Why are you determined on Elmhurst as opposed to other dance schools? If your dance teacher supports you and thinks you have a chance/potential, perhaps he/she could talk to your parents about auditioning. There would be an audition fee to pay but it would be a waste of money and time if you have no chance of getting a place. Otherwise, you can start some dance courses after A-levels if you do A-levels at your current school. These are not so likely to be ballet-focused but other forms of dance. It will give you more time to hone your technique.

I know little about this company and have never seen them, but I’m not entirely comfortable with publicly describing any person, dancer or not, as a skeleton covered in skin. I don’t mean to start a bun fight, but would we describe a plumper dancer in a similarly derogatory manner?

The fact that one episode of The Magic of Dance may have been broadcast a few years ago doesn’t mean it could be broadcast now; the permissions and copyrights etc may have changed or become unobtainable.

It’ll be because they can only cater for dancers of a similar standard - which is why they say G4 as a minimum, not that they expect the vast majority of even talented nine-year-olds to be at that standard. And remember, there will be children who don’t take any exams at all - mine didn’t, and anyway she wouldn’t have been anywhere near G4 at age nine. The G4 is just to give an idea of the standard that they feel able to work with.

Chance to Dance was run by the Royal Opera House, not the Royal Ballet, but I suppose there would be close links. The Royal Ballet School developed its own outreach scheme called Primary Steps. Shevelle Dynott himself started dancing and benefitted from a scheme such as this as a child.

I really don’t know if it’s possible for a whole family to come to live in the UK on the back of a talented child student visa. I would think the parents would need a visa in their own right, but I’m no expert on this. Perhaps there is such a scheme. Does it exist in other countries?

I agree with Kate. Both academic education and ballet training are different in the UK and the States. Home schooling is very unusual here, though growing, and that means ballet training is done after school and at weekends. The school system is quite rigid and quite long - you won’t in general be able to leave early to attend dance classes. My understanding is that UK pupils are generally at least a year academically ahead of students from the States, certainly by the age of 18 - eg, the UK A level is at least college freshman level - though at age 11 this difference won’t matter as much. Will your daughter attend a state school here? Regarding ballet training, assuming you mean after academic school, in general most dance schools will not offer classes every day. You may need to find two schools - with the teachers’ approval. Lessons may be shorter than you are used to. An hour is quite standard. You can audition for some associate schemes, as mentioned above, which will have longer, more focused lessons, usually on a Saturday. Competition for these places is quite tough. Apart from the Vaganova-based schools mentioned above, the RAD is a big overseer of dance classes and exams. Dance exams are a big part of ballet culture here. An 11-year-old could take three or maybe four syllabus classes a week, one hour each, at their HQ. That would be regarded as quite a lot, though. The RAD also now seem to run some sort of associates course of their own - by invitation only. As has been said, London is a big place. Some schools might not be feasible, depending where you live. If you can give an approximation of where you live, people will be able to give more precise recommendations.

I’m pretty sure the RBS doesn’t teach the Cecchetti method. They have their own system.

Perhaps it is unusual for BRB. I wouldn’t know. However, it seems to me that a lot of advertised ballet jobs advertise for soloists and principals. I did a quick, completely non-scientific scout of ballet auditions, and seven out of eleven adverts specifically say they are looking for soloists and/or principals as well as corps, and no doubt there’s a lot going on behind the scenes too, even for ads that don’t specifically state that. At the large national company my adult dancer child works for, dancers from outside the company are hired at soloist and principal level as well as corps. Whether those dancers were previously working at soloist/principal level at their previous companies I don’t know. However, isn’t this how dancers get on? They move from company to company to progress or find a company that suits them better.

I’m very hesitant to ask here, but I don’t quite understand this thread. It’s surely quite normal for ballet job adverts to advertise positions for soloists and principals. What is it that BRB are doing differently?

I think going to normal school with plenty of normal, non-ballet options is a benefit in many cases. It means your child can have more of a genuine choice; they aren’t shoehorned into pursuing ballet if it’s no longer a good fit for them. In our case, things were made simpler because of two things. Firstly, we had never applied for vocational school, and no teacher had ever suggested it, so our expectations of a ballet career were virtually nil in the first place; dancing was a very, very keen hobby. Secondly, we had good-quality local training which was easy to access, good availability of classes, and generally within walking distance - handy, as we don’t have a car. We did not do things like EYB or LCB. Certainly, my child did give up some teenage “stuff” in order to do ballet - but this was her choice, and yet she still managed to go out with school friends, go to parties, do her schoolwork to a high standard, play her musical instrument etc. To be honest, there didn’t seem to be a huge difference in teenage experience between my non-dancing child and the dancing one. The dancer had to be more focused and disciplined, perhaps.

Mine went to normal school, trained locally after school, didn’t have any private lessons, was on an associate scheme for about a year or so, but has been a professional ballet dancer for a few years now.

Congrats!

I have had no involvement with any of these schools, so cannot comment on that. I know you asked for first-hand experiences, but just be aware that those with less favourable things to say may not be willing or able to comment publicly here at all - for a variety of reasons. It would be worth looking at the pinned thread at the top called Please Read Before You Post, if you haven’t already.

DaDas are only for some diploma courses. You can’t get them for degree courses. There are 17 institutions on the DaDa list, some of which are drama schools or MT schools.

Yes, Jewel is right. LSC is a private college and runs its own course, but it can’t award degrees. Although the degree is validated by Middlesex University, LSC students aren’t actually Middlesex students and therefore can’t get the normal student loan. As it’s a private college, there’s also no cap on the fees, hence why it’s more expensive.

I’ve not heard of this school either. However, despite the heading of “degree” in professional dance, it clearly isn’t a recognised degree. The website then does go on to refer to a “diploma” - but a diploma recognised by whom? The IDTA don’t have diploma in dance, only a level 4 diploma in dance teaching, and a lower level 3 one for dance teaching assistants.

Shevelle Dynott left ballet last year - or left ENB, to be more precise.

Re Equity membership - it’s quite straightforward for dancers. You need to earn £500 from any area of work covered by Equity - it doesn’t have to be on an Equity contract - and the earnings threshold is less if you are below a certain age. Also, a contract from work abroad also counts for making you eligible. You can also join as a student. For others in the creative industries, more working behind the scenes, so possibly not directly useful to dancers per se, there is also the BECTU union - Broadcasting, Entertainment, Communications and Theatre Union.

Prompted by this thread, I have written to my MP. Thanks, all.

There is a template in a link by the organisation OnedanceUK which may be of help: https://www.onedanceuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Write-to-your-MP-template-message.docx

Ah, had that always been the case? I didn’t know that. Yes, I agree, most ballet dancers surely want a full-time contract, not a temporary one where they are freelance.

The latest temporary short-term contracts advertised by ENB actually did say you needed to have the right to live and work in the UK and they were unable to sponsor visas.

I don’t think this is true. While I’m sure it’s easier for RBS graduates to find jobs, the chances of any of them obtaining an “illustrious” career - depending on what is meant by that -will still be tiny.