rowan

Perhaps I am simplifying but it seems to me that big differences are: 1:After school - after the age of 18 - music students can go on to either university or a conservatoire, whereas dance students need to look for work. OK, dance students get an extra third year at school which I assume music students don’t. 2:A levels. Music students seem to have a full cohort of A levels open to them that they can/must study alongside their music, which keeps doors open for them. 3: Music, unlike, dance is more usually regarded as a proper academic subject at university, so going on with music is much less likely to close off other options. If dance students could have more of those options, perhaps it would be better for dance students.

I was wondering about the music schools, Meadowblythe, and how they might differ to dance schools. Do they all go on to be musicians? I assume not.

As we all know, and as we are all told, the chance of becoming a ballet (specifically) dancer is tiny. And yet we carry on on the journey, until there’s an end, and that end is often forced upon us - often by not being able to get a job. I suppose people might slink away, as if ashamed, as if you’ve publicly fallen victim to a well-known scam, such as the foreign prince who wants to put millions in your bank account, and, hoping against hope, you fall for it. It’s so worth while for people to bravely post here to explain what really happened afterwards. I’ve sometimes thought that there should be no vocational schools at all, and I do wonder about the future of some of them.

Can you provide a link? I’m absolutely no expert, but I’ve never heard of a barrel jump, so have nothing to go on.

Cotes, I think it is so important that stories like your DD’s are shared. I know of some ballet dancers who technically “made it” - they got a ballet job, but they often lasted one or two years, at most, before stopping. This isn’t necessarily because they were injured, but because sometimes the life of a working ballet dancer isn’t quite what they imagined it to be in the rose-tinted hope of youth - and that of their parents. It’s important that they feel they have the freedom to say, “Enough,” with no pressure or guilt about the money and time spent.

Oakley, mine followed an unconventional route, but has never had a private lesson or done a competition. It is possible. But you need a good ballet school/teaching, and you also need to learn contemporary and character and pas de deux as a minimum. The idea of a young person having all their teaching done one to one with one teacher doesn’t sit well with me at all - if that’s what you mean. How would you do pas de deux or learn to work in a corps? There is an advantage with flexibility, though, not being tied to the confines of a three-year course. The issue of contacts is valid, but can be surmounted, but of course you don’t know what additional auditions you would have been offered if you had attended a big-name school. I’m sure that attending a world-famous school would help get that initial audition, but as long as you have good video clips, that seems to have been enough in reality. Once at the audition, where applicants studied doesn’t make a difference. It’s all on merit. There are a lot of ballet schools and teachers around the world, many of which most of us won’t have heard of, and all these students will be competing for jobs, as well as those going for their second or third jobs.

Radio 4’s “Something Understood” on the subject of Obsession has an interesting small segment with Deborah Bull on what makes a ballet dancer.

I’m still around as a retired ballet mum and drop in here from time to time. My DD is a professional ballet dancer in a national company, but I think there’s as much, if not more, value in hearing about those who have taken up other pathways. I can’t add information about vocational schools or youth dance programmes, as mine didn’t do these, but can talk about auditioning for jobs. Mine swapped ballet jobs mid-pandemic and moved countries, so there are still companies hiring, working and rehearsing - to give hope for those looking for jobs.

Do they not add a cheering and applause soundtrack?

Guinness World Records say it was 7th Jan 1973. https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/69625-fastest-entrechat-douze However, if you look at the archive, there wasn’t an episode that day. There was one on 5th Jan, and the next was 12th. There is no guest listed for 5th, and I suspect this was the actual day. https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/search/0/20?order=asc&q=Record+breakers&svc=9371541#search Either way, I don’t think it’s available to see.

In regards to competition becoming fiercer, I suspect this is true. There are many, many more associate schemes around now compared with when my DD was younger, and this will cause many more to audition for the various schools. When my DD was young, there was JAs in London, and I think one other centre. There wasn’t even an Elmhurst scheme at all, I believe. I’d be interested in knowing if anyone can put dates as to when the various associate schemes started. In addition, forums like this and the internet in general make many more people aware that the various vocational schools actually exist, and hence there will be more competition.

Boarding will not suit many children at age 11. I know one family who turned down WL because of this, and because they didn’t want a school where you were only guaranteed one year before maybe having to leave and then find another (academic) school.

This is spot-on. I tend to think the vocational schools should not be referred to as such. It’s misleading and possibly unhelpful. They would be better regarded as normal schools with a specialism in dance - just like many schools have a specialism in art, or sport, or languages, etc - with many outcomes and pathways for pupils, only some of which may be dance related.

I thought I would add a little more to the brilliant advice up thread. It is best to regard dance as a hobby, even a serious one. Do not expect it to lead to employment. That way madness lies. If your child can get accepted into an auditioned-for programme, that shows a degree of potential and talent. Bear in mind, though, that there’s a proliferation of such schemes now, lots more than when my child was young. If that gives more children access to good training, that’s great, but I’m slightly wary of it encouraging lots more to think dance careers are likely. There are lots of different types of dance. It can be easy to fall into a trap of thinking ballet is the “best”, in a rather elitist way. Parents often aren’t good at judging their child’s talent. The requirements for ballet include a few physical attributes which can seem rather barmy to the uninitiated. My child is a ballet dancer in a large national company. We didn’t stop wondering if she had real potential until the job offers came in. Before that, she was rejected for JAs, MAs and RB summer school. She did not go to vocational school. It can be easy to get swept up in a your child’s hobby world, but as parent you are raising a person, not a dancer. Raising a dancer is not your job.

You need to be tall. I know of someone who auditioned and was a good fit -very tall, the right look, Russian-method trained, fluent speaker - and I think was with them for a few days doing auditions, taking class etc. They were clearly interested in her. But in the end it didn’t come to a job offer. I don’t know the exact particulars, though.

I wonder if it could be the Lydia Kyasht company Ballet de la Jeunesse Anglaise. They were active in the World War II years performing in theatres in the U.K, and their advertising posters and programmes refer to the production as Russian Ballet.

Lots of teachers actually won’t have these qualifications, especially not the PGCE, in the independent sector, and maybe not even a degree. And many teachers in both state and private won’t have a degree in the subject they teach.

Thinking back, it might be that it was some sort of special school bursary but only available to someone in that borough, but I don’t think it was. I think it was a council thing. Pupil definitely did not apply to any of the main dance schools.

I know of someone who was funded by their council - Hammersmith and Fulham, I think - for a lower school place. It was for Arts Ed, Chiswick, so not one of the main schools and no government funding, I think. This was quite a few years ago. There was only one piece of funding available - and it wasn’t just for dance - maybe it was for any type of specialist education - so there was stiff competition and stringent eligibility criteria. I don’t know if funding was available for just that school or if such a scheme still exists. Nor do I know if it was fully funded or topped up with other bursaries etc.

It has already created problems for those I know auditioning this year, because (some?) auditions have been cancelled this spring. So that means whenever things get back to normal-ish again, there could be two years’ worth of dancers looking for jobs.

In case some might not know, there is a large set of watchable archive programmes here. You can use the menu to sort by Collections. There are some very interesting programmes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive

Cancellations in TV. Filming of EastEnders, Casualty, Holby City and Doctors has ceased. Broadcast episodes now decrease from four to two days a week using footage already filmed. That will leave considerable gaps in the schedules, especially if added to the televised sport that is no longer going ahead.

Sorry, David. Cinemas won’t have the rights to issue DVDs.

The change regarding the BBC licence fee for the over-75s has been suspended for a while. A small plus there. (I do not work for the BBC.)

Just the political issues relating to it or the medical aspects of it on some parts of the forum, I think.