rowan

The graded exams are aimed at children, though some adults may take them, too, of course. I would think labelling a class as "suitable for grade xx" would actually baffle a lot of adult dancers, for whom the grades might not have much meaning. I can see, however, that a child doing grade 5 might think that because grade 5 is about halfway through the graded syllabus, that would make them intermediate, or one doing grade 6 might think because that's near the upper end of the graded syllabus, that makes them advanced. Some might not even realise that there is a separate vocational syllabus (if studying RAD and the like) that has other "grades" labelled as Intermediate or Advanced. And even these Intermediate/Advanced grades don't correlate to intermediate or advanced classes at places like Danceworks. I do think labelling a class as "suitable for over 11s" does give the wrong impression, unless it is a set of classes specially designed for children of that age or a school holiday workshop. Classes at Danceworks/Pineapple and the like aren't in general geared up for teaching children, unless they are perhaps mid- to late-teens with vocational aspirations.

I agree. I can fully understand why students think another year of classical training and performance training might help give them an edge, whether that is on an official postgrad programme or in a junior company that you have to pay for. And what do you do if you audition and are not successful straight away? Do you take that as a sign that you're not good enough? Do you just give up there and then? Probably not just at that point. So you need to keep on with your training and keep trying - so that means considering some sort of post-graduate training. We know it is very hard to get a paid full-time classical ballet contract straight out of vocational school. It's probably harder for female dancers than male dancers, and harder for those who haven't attended RBS and the like. If you look at the graduate destinations from the various British schools, once you discount the postgraduate programmes, the unpaid traineeship/apprenticeships, the junior companies that you yourself have to pay for, or the contracts that only run for a few weeks in the year, you can see how hard it is to get paid classical work. There's just too much competition from others graduating from the top European schools.

Don't forget that there will be more post-grad programmes available that aren't called "such-and-such school". A lot of (though not all) the junior companies are actually programmes for which you are not paid, but which you have to pay for (after a successful audition). There will be a lot of competition for these places, but they're designed as bridging programmes between school and paid work, helping develop technique and stagecraft. You could look at the thread on Cinevox Junior Company in Switzerland, for example, and some of the ones Sam mentioned above. I second the opinion that Rosella Hightower is a fine school - and it will also have competitive entry requirements.

(from the credits)Lilac Fairy - Lucette Aldous Fairy Godmothers - Antoinette Sibley, Prudence Rodney, June Lesley, Audrey Farris, Judith Sinclair Four Princes - John Chesworth, Bob Stevenson, Peter Wright, Jelko Yuresha Pas de Trois - Prudence Rodney, Jelko Yuresha, Judith Sinclair Blue Birds - Brian Shaw, Antoinette Sibley Three Ivans - Terry Gilbert, Robert Harvey, Derek Westlake Puss In Boots - Keith Beckett White Cat - Audrey Farriss Carabosse - Yvonne Cartier King - Alfred Rodrigues Queen - Felicity Gray Countess - Greta Hamby Master of Ceremonies - Claude Newman

In case anyone is not aware, the repeat (first shown 2014, introduced by Darcey Bussell) of the 1959 TV version of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty featuring Margot Fonteyn and Michael Somes was on TV at 2am(!) today, and is currently available to see on iPlayer. Called Fonteyn '59:Sleeping Beauty. (edited to add title)

But getting a visa to study in a different country (outside of the EU) and getting one to work there are very different matters. And many British ballet students also wish to, and do, study abroad - we just don't hear so much about them. Even if you have studied, say, in America, it will still be very difficult to get a visa to work there as a corps dancer, anyway, even if you're offered a job. Once you're at principal status, it's of course a different matter altogether!

As far as I understand it, although they are not in the EU, they are both part of the Schengen area, and are part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA). Norway, though not Switzerland, is also in the European Economic Area. As part of the Freedom of Movement Act, almost all EU/EFTA nationals are allowed move to and work in the EU/EFTA area, and EU nationals can work in Norway or Switzerland, at least at the moment.

It has been notoriously difficult, and costly, though clearly not impossible, for arts performers outside of the EU to get visas to perform in the UK, even if the artists are unpaid or it is one-off performance. Some never get a visa granted. http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/mar/21/home-secretary-visa-rules-arts http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/27/britain-persecutes-visiting-artists-visa http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/society/10966838/british-visa-hell-russians.html

I do think finances have to be taken into consideration, both in terms of cost of training and also expected salary if the dancer manages to get a job. In terms of training, once you’ve exhausted all ways and means of reducing the cost through whatever scholarships and awards you can get, and it is still too expensive, I think you should stop. That stopping point will be different for different people. Mine never did things like master classes, private lessons, or things like EYB – all too expensive for us. In terms of salary expectations, young people need to look at what they want out of life – and that will change as they get older. It’s all very well to say “do what makes you happy”, but if they come from a background where parents can afford to run a car, or have holidays, or they assume that having a smartphone is “normal”, it might be a shock to realise that they might never be able to have these things themselves – even if they are “lucky and talented enough” to be a jobbing ballet dancer. Most don't even get that far. And at some point they will have to do something else - and they are likely going to need money to retrain for that, as well. How are they going to pay for it? "Marry someone rich," is DD's answer!

I do think you need to go into it with your eyes very wide open. I believe it’s a misnomer to regard the vocational schools as vocational schools – because the chances of dance/ballet becoming your vocation/job are so small. If we had full-time vocational schools at the age of 11 for teaching plumbing and carpentry, etc, you would be more likely to be employed in those fields and those truly would be vocational schools. The problem is that it takes so many years to train a dancer that it needs the specialised training from an early age to enable the one percent (whatever the statistic is) of the year group to have a chance of gaining employment as dancers. The vocational schools would be better regarded as being normal schools that have a specialism in dance, and thus expectations of them might be more realistic.

I've lived in London for many years now, and rent is very high indeed. I'd consider an area like Barons Court to be very desirable now and probably beyond the means of most young people in London at the time of their first job, even sharing. Young dancers at the RB/ENB will probably be earning more than most other dance jobs will pay. They will also have the advantage of having a longish-term contract. If you are employed on a freelance or ad hoc basis, even on a short-term contract, you might find it difficult to get somewhere to rent, unless you have someone to act as guarantor of the rent. A friend of mine, newly returned from Australia, had to spend six months living with her sister while she built up enough of an employment reference to be able to rent somewhere with friends. I would suggest that anywhere within Zone 1 or 2 is likely to be unaffordable, and Zone 3 is also now very expensive. The other thing in London is the distance you should be prepared to travel between your work and home. This can be a long way and take a long time, and is often very out of proportion to what people would be prepared to do in other parts of the country. I, for example, spend nearly three hours a day commuting, one and a half hours each way - and that's just between one part of London and another, and I work shifts, so not standard hours. These sorts of times and distances are normal. Travelling at night should be fine, as long as your daughter takes sensible precautions. Good luck! edited for typo

You're not really comparing like with like. With schools with a very small intake, the figures are distorted: one child's results can skew the figures hugely one way or the other. While the figures may be "accurate", they are not necessary "fair" in comparison with other, larger schools, whether that be the London Oratory or elsewhere.

I'm sure I'm behind the times, but I don't like this assumption that nowadays everyone owns a smartphone. Perhaps everyone does. Though I do have an ancient PAYG mobile phone, it certainly doesn't do email! Although I can see how it would be convienient in this case if you do have one.

Not ballet and not TV, but if you haven't heard this already, BBC Radio 4's programme Strictly Russian is still available to listen to on iPlayer. It was being touted at the end of the Ballroom and Ballerinas programme. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06rdxvj I thought this was one of the best dance programmes on in December, and it describes why and how the Russians have come to dominate the ballroom dancing scene, both as the professionals in programmes like Strictly and in the world championships. It was written and presented by the BBC diplomatic editor and was a fascinating quickstep through varying political, cultural and ideological backgrounds of Russian dance. Great.

Cara in NZ, there's an Australian/NZ franchise of the same product, called appropriately Diary Doll Down Under: http://www.diarydolldownunder.com/ Product is also available in Debenhams. Why have I never heard of this product before? I've got three adolescent daughters and will be investigating. I remember the days of compulsory bottle green knickers for PE in all weathers at school, and most girls wore pads then, at least when they first started their periods, and it was quite obvious. Today's modern pads are much less bulky. I don't remember anyone being that bothered if the pads were noticeable. I suppose everyone was in the same boat then.

I have to say, I found the camera work on the hip-hop final a little annoying. There seemed to be lots of shots of upper body and torso while cutting out the lower body, legs and feet. I'm going to re-watch this on iPlayer because I didn't see the beginning - maybe that was different.

Also, re the photos and the children's hair, etc, it's clear that some of these children have never done dance lessons before because they're wearing swimming costumes or shorts and T-shirts, and parents aren't necessarily going to know about buns and plaits - and what does it matter anyway? The SAB website says no prior experience or training is needed and that swimming costumes and T-shirts are fine to wear for the audition. It makes no mention of hairstyles. When my DD started ballet through a community programme, we were given the same message for the audition about swimming costumes or shorts/T-shirts and were just told to pull hair back off the face into a pony tail. It was only after a whole year in the progamme that buns were needed. https://www.sab.org/winterterm/admission/auditions_for_6_to_10_year_olds.php I have to agree with those who thought the children look sweet - like little children!

Here's the link: http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/apr/17/new-york-youngest-ballet-dancers-auditioning-in-pictures

One of the commentators under the original article (linked in Pas de Quatre's first post) says that the British dance school has three times more students than European counterparts, which raises the question, again, and unwelcome as it may be, of are we training too many dance students? It could explain why, proportionally, the success rates might not appear too great. Another commentator suggests that the sole purpose of HE-level dance is not necessarily to develop dance performers, but to open up the worlds of choreography, dance administration, etc, as well as other things. There are myriads of university subjects that one can study that don't lead directly into a job, but do those students face the same criticism if they study philosophy or Ancient Greek and those subjects aren't directly involved in the students' later employment? Well, maybe they do!

LCDS says 90% of its graduates are in further study or employment six months after graduating - but doesn't say what they are employed as. I've come across this article in which two Americans compare their training at LCDS to what they'd done in the States. http://www.4dancers.org/2012/09/london-contemporary-dance-schools-edge/ (from about halfway down the article) West described the teaching methods at LCDS as very“different from those…in the States because of the emphasis on freedom and personal artistry”. Most of West’s training “was mostly about uniformity in technique classes”, and in terms of the UK, West maintained that there is a “greater infusion of dynamics in the postgraduate classes and efficiency” rather than a sole focus on technique. Gracelynn Whyte agreed too that UK training is “focused more on personal style and less on technique” in developing an awareness of the self as a dancer of movement, which is given higher priority. Whyte argued, interestingly, that the focus on personal style has “become a shift from perfectionism” to finding out whom you are as a dancer...

Although this thread might have begun about Miko Fogarty in particular, I think it's changed somewhat, to one about the importance, or lack of it, of social media for dancers. If an AD has one contract to offer and a couple of dancers of similar ability to choose between, but one of those dancers has both a large public and press following, which would mean more seats filled in theatres and more productions reviewed in the press, which dancer would they pick? I think that's a valid question to ponder. No reference to Miko is implied in this! edited to add last sentence,

Although MF has trained in the States, she doesn't have US nationality, which could mean getting a work visa for the States virtually impossible at this stage in her career.

Alison, Miko Fogarty is the teenage student ballet dancer of British/Swiss/Japanese nationality with a big online following. She featured in the documentary First Position aged 12 and competes regularly in the big international ballet competitions and is often a prize winner. http://www.mikofogarty.com/

The ballet classes are the foundation for everything else. Your DD is doing very well if she's only doing one hour of ballet a week and achieved places at the CBA at Tring and London Studio Centre. I think she should definitely keep up the CBA and drop the festivals if that's possible. Unless she's not enjoying the CBA, which is another matter...

Cristalle, I don't understand how the percentage numbers are misquoted, although I take the point that Tring pupils can carry their MDS awards into the sixth form. Maybe that makes a significant difference, in which case, the guide is misleading with its statistics! From page 3 of the Dept of Education guide: TRING PARK SCHOOL FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS in Hertfordshire where 17% of its Dance and Classical Ballet pupils receive support from the MDS. THE HAMMOND SCHOOL in Chester is a leading Performing Arts education provider, with nearly 60% of its Lower School Dance pupils supported through the scheme I've got no personal interest in this, I'm just curious!