serenade Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Dear all, I have been reading the forum for a while and have decided I should just join in the discussion! I was pretty disappointed myself when I saw this production. This is the first time I've seen this production and found it very flat in comparison to BRB or ENBs version. I am a huge fan of Osipova so treated myself to expensive seats for my birthday thinking it would be a great night. I am not knowledgeable about the technique of anything and in my view everyone danced to a brilliant standard but there was just no atmosphere to me and I found it quite dull. I went on the night it was filmed and read a lot of people saying how amazing it was but I was there and felt nothing which is unusual for me. Certainly think it's a good thing they are getting a new production. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Hello Serenade and welcome to the Forum. Thanks for your thoughts on RB Swan Lake. I do hope you will continue to join in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serenade Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thank you Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpop Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thoughts on Thursday performance... I agree with all the comments here about Vadim Muntagirov's performance. How he consistently turns out such good performances is beyond me - he hasn't faltered this season, which is particularly astonishing considering the number of debuts and his guest commitments (he seems to have been travelling a lot recently, judging from twitter). I have mixed feelings about Salenko. In some sections she danced beautifully, both solo and with Muntagirov. She has that magic feather-light illusion some ballerinas have - she just seems to float into some positions, looking like her feet barely touch the ground. On the other hand, some solo sections looked distinctly wobbly and on occasion she and the conductor seemed to be out of sync. I also found myself annoyed with one particular step - there's one step which is a pirouette on two feet, where the dancer bends one leg into their thigh on each turn. Every time she did it, she seemed really slow to raise the leg, which I found increasingly irritating! Also agree with the comments about the poor pas de trois in Act I - it looked really shaky. It'll be interesting to see what the new production is like. I think the creepy drunk tutor + children bit in Act I can definitely go, along with the gay disco throne room and the horrible orange/brown costumes in Act I. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I agree with all the comments here about Vadim Muntagirov's performance. How he consistently turns out such good performances is beyond me - he hasn't faltered this season, which is particularly astonishing considering the number of debuts and his guest commitments (he seems to have been travelling a lot recently, judging from twitter). And the number of partners and last minute changes of partner at the RB which have been referred to on another thread. He seems to have an absolutely winning mix of talent and temperament. Edited March 28, 2015 by capybara 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletfanp Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And the number of partners and last minute changes of partner at the RB which have been referred to on another thread. He seems to have an absolutely winning mix of talent and temperament. Totally agree. I find him enthralling to watch, both because of his beautiful dancing and his acting. I don't think the RB are making nearly enough of such a talent in their midst. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think that there is a growing number of fans who want to see Muntagirov in everything! For example, I have heard questions (and disappointment) that he is not cast in Song of the Earth and was not cast in Month of the Country last autumn. But we have to remember that dancers need to be 'paced' by management and there are other Principals who must not be neglected in favour of the latest wonderful acquisition. Anyway GO VADIM I say !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booklover89 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think that there is a growing number of fans who want to see Muntagirov in everything! For example, I have heard questions (and disappointment) that he is not cast in Song of the Earth and was not cast in Month of the Country last autumn. But we have to remember that dancers need to be 'paced' by management and there are other Principals who must not be neglected in favour of the latest wonderful acquisition. Anyway GO VADIM I say !!!! Yes, particularly after the criticisms that were levelled at management after Polunin left re: overburdening promising young dancers. I would take fewer performances of higher quality over seeing Muntagirov rushed into everything. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barton22 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yes, particularly after the criticisms that were levelled at management after Polunin left re: overburdening promising young dancers. I would take fewer performances of higher quality over seeing Muntagirov rushed into everything. And he may be a bit less used to juggling lots of different roles (particularly new ones) in a single season than someone who came up through the ranks at the ROH, given the much more limited rep/programming at ENB. I haven't looked back at exactly what roles he danced each season he was there, but given how few ballets they dance in any given year it is hard to believe he had to prepare more than three or four principal roles a season. If they "did a Polunin" on him it could push him too far and at the very least make him unnecessarily stressed and unhappy. (I am not suggesting he couldn't cope with it, as he is extremely talented and seems to be very level headed; but why take the risk?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booklover89 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And he may be a bit less used to juggling lots of different roles (particularly new ones) in a single season than someone who came up through the ranks at the ROH, given the much more limited rep/programming at ENB. I haven't looked back at exactly what roles he danced each season he was there, but given how few ballets they dance in any given year it is hard to believe he had to prepare more than three or four principal roles a season. If they "did a Polunin" on him it could push him too far and at the very least make him unnecessarily stressed and unhappy. (I am not suggesting he couldn't cope with it, as he is extremely talented and seems to be very level headed; but why take the risk?) Not to mention how bad it would be for my bank balance! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Whereas Muntagirov may not have danced in more that 5 ballets each year while he was with ENB, he was often guesting abroad in a different repertoire at the same time. And, from what one gathers, guests often have very little time to rehearse in productions which are new to them or to get used to dancing with 'strange' partners. BTW, since he joined the RB, he has already caused my bank balance to look decidedly seedy. But he's worth it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletfanp Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 One definitely wouldn't want to see him overburdened, or a repeat of the Polunin scenario. However, Muntagirov seems to be a completely different personality and in a recent interview (Dancing Times, I think?) appeared to be relishing the busier schedule and more challenging work pattern at the RB - sounded like he had become rather bored at ENB. There do seem to be certain principals at the RB who are constantly in the limelight, though, and I, for one, would like to see Muntagirov in the odd cinema broadcast or on DVD, and exposed to more people. He deserves it. Although you're right - my bank balance has already suffered since he joined the RB, so perhaps I should be careful what I wish for! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booklover89 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yes, he does seem happy there, as far as one can tell. It's lovely to see. I do hope he's used for at least one of the cinema broadcasts next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 However, Muntagirov seems to be a completely different personality and in a recent interview (Dancing Times, I think?) appeared to be relishing the busier schedule and more challenging work pattern at the RB Wasn't there one in Dance Europe? I'm glad if he's relishing the mix of works, because I did worry that he might get frustrated with a reduced number of performances compared with what he's used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yes, he does seem happy there, as far as one can tell. It's lovely to see. I do hope he's used for at least one of the cinema broadcasts next season. Sleeping Beauty, perhaps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamk Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Worth noting that Vadim's background is very different from Polunin's - he comes from a family of dancers. It seems to me that he has flourished at the RB with all the new roles he's been given: not a trace of nerves, outstanding dancing, and deeply thoughtful characterisation. In a single season he's established himself as the RB male principal I'd choose to see in anything . 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billboyd Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think the reasons for Sergei Polunin's departure from the RB were more complex than suggested in some of the above posts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Vadim is a principal guest dancer with National Ballet of Japan this year and this may have affected his availability for certain roles. There is plenty of time for him to learn the roles which have not been offered to him in the relatively short time that he has been with the RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As a matter of interest, has Muntagirov performed any of the contemporary roles? I don't mean with the RB, I mean anywhere? I see him as such a perfect example of a classical ballet dancer, I would consider it an outrage if I saw him jerking and distorting his body in one of Mr McGregor's offerings. Just my personal opinion, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) As a matter of interest, has Muntagirov performed any of the contemporary roles? I don't mean with the RB, I mean anywhere? I see him as such a perfect example of a classical ballet dancer, I would consider it an outrage if I saw him jerking and distorting his body in one of Mr McGregor's offerings. Just my personal opinion, of course! Muntagirov was wonderful with ENB in Song of a Wayfarer. Also he said - at an LBC meeting - that it was his (then) 'favourite role'. Edited March 30, 2015 by Bruce Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Song of a Wayfarer was made in 1971 and Bejart (at least from that period) was fairly neo-classical so I don't think it's really in the same category as a McGregor work. Although Bejart's work is "pretty", in my humble opinion, it is extremely conservative and lacks the kind of invention or innovation shown by other contemporary choreographers. I know offence is easily taken on here so this comment comes with the usual caveats that opinions vary, and McGregor is far from being the only thing on the contemporary scene (although I can see why the ROH faithful might be under that impression). However, I think it's key to any kind of sensible discussion that we don't lump everything that isn't the Nutcracker or Swan Lake into some kind of "contemporary" basket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Muntagirov also danced in Petite Mort with ENB in 2013. His performances in Song of a Wayfarer showed a (then) new dramatic side to his artistry - which is why so many of us are itching for him to be cast in various roles in the RB repertoire. I personally hope not to see him in MacGregor or the like. Edited March 30, 2015 by capybara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Song of a Wayfarer was made in 1971 and Bejart (at least from that period) was fairly neo-classical so I don't think it's really in the same category as a McGregor work. Although Bejart's work is "pretty", in my humble opinion, it is extremely conservative and lacks the kind of invention or innovation shown by other contemporary choreographers. I know offence is easily taken on here so this comment comes with the usual caveats that opinions vary, and McGregor is far from being the only thing on the contemporary scene (although I can see why the ROH faithful might be under that impression). However, I think it's key to any kind of sensible discussion that we don't lump everything that isn't the Nutcracker or Swan Lake into some kind of "contemporary" basket. Also he was featured in the second cast of the inaugural run of Wheeldon's 'The Winter's Tale' for the RB. Edited March 30, 2015 by Bruce Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletfanp Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I believe he is cast in Afternoon of a Faun soon, which should be interesting - hoping to see him in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 However, I think it's key to any kind of sensible discussion that we don't lump everything that isn't the Nutcracker or Swan Lake into some kind of "contemporary" basket. It is difficult to come up with an appropriate term for the type of choreography I had in mind. I was thinking of works such as those produced by McGregor, where the choreographer seems determined to make the body look as ugly as possible. I can't give any other examples of choreographers that I would also put in this category, apart from Ashley Page. I tend to avoid anything by these people, because I simply don't like them. Perhaps modern contemporary, as opposed to classical contemporary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I do agree that it is hard to draw fixed lines, Fonty. I tend to think of it in terms of a spectrum. Choreographers like Wheeldon or Scarlett, or even early-Forsythe, who use a "twisted" version of the traditional language of classical ballet, (e.g. on pointe and pulled-up with the odd flexed hand or foot, off-balance turn etc) are closer to the "neo-classical" end of that spectrum, and those like Schechter and McGregor who begin with the language of contemporary dance (e.g. grounded rather than pulled up, often turned-in, focus on contractions, gestures and dynamics of movement) as closer to the "contemporary" end. Of course that is a massive over-simplification, as there are endless different foundations for contemporary dance (and Schechter and McGregor are in many ways a very unlikely pairing!) but I just wanted to make the point that in the same way as Petipa/Macmillan/Nijinsky/Ashton/Balanchine are different, so are those choreographers who often get lumped together as "new/modern/contemporary" work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I do agree that it is hard to draw fixed lines, Fonty. I tend to think of it in terms of a spectrum. Choreographers like Wheeldon or Scarlett, or even early-Forsythe, who use a "twisted" version of the traditional language of classical ballet, (e.g. on pointe and pulled-up with the odd flexed hand or foot, off-balance turn etc) are closer to the "neo-classical" end of that spectrum, and those like Schechter and McGregor who begin with the language of contemporary dance (e.g. grounded rather than pulled up, often turned-in, focus on contractions, gestures and dynamics of movement) as closer to the "contemporary" end. Of course that is a massive over-simplification, as there are endless different foundations for contemporary dance (and Schechter and McGregor are in many ways a very unlikely pairing!) but I just wanted to make the point that in the same way as Petipa/Macmillan/Nijinsky/Ashton/Balanchine are different, so are those choreographers who often get lumped together as "new/modern/contemporary" work. I think this could be an excellent topic for a new thread, if anyone wants to start one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think the reasons for Sergei Polunin's departure from the RB were more complex than suggested in some of the above posts. Would love to know why he left...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Akane Takada to dance with Muntagirov April 2nd. Salenko April 9 http://www.roh.org.uk/news/cast-change-lauren-cuthbertson-unable-to-dance-in-swan-lake-on-26-march-and-2-9-april-2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmie Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Happy happy happy. (Going on the 9th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Very strange I posted here about an hour or so ago and seems to not be here now. So again ....Thankyou Bluebird for the info on the 9th the day I'm going and will be pleased to see Salenko as I have never seen her dance before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I think you posted in the Period 2 casting thread, Lin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm disappointed because I really wanted to see Salenko but have tickets for the 2nd and not the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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