Cara in NZ

I'm so glad I read this thread! This year I've returned to adult ballet after 15 years away. I bought some second-hand shoes and they are too big. I had some Hanamis put away for DD but her feet stopped growing and they were half a size too big. I'm a whole size bigger than her but after reading that Hanamis were suggested here (she doesn't have wide feet), I tried them on and unbelievably they fit my wide size 4 feet just as well as they almost fit her average-width size 3 feet! So here is a huge endorsement for Hanamis! The 6.5 is a snug fit on my feet, as a guide for fitting

How far is the commute, Pictures? Possibly it might be easier to find lodgings once she knows some people at the school?

Bravo, Claudia! She certainly knows there's a huge audience of impressionable kids listening to her (I saw 25,000 views on one of her YouTube videos). I do wish she had defined 'full-time' though, as even the NZ private schools combining dance with academics do half and half study and dance classes for 13-15 year olds. Dancers we know of DD's age (14) who want to train for a career are definitely doing 20+ hours a week including Pilates, contemporary, body conditioning and anything else they add to the mix. Many dance 7 days a week, and may have weekly ballet privates with three different teachers (for technique, competition work, and extra RAD coaching for exams). They are at school as well. I certainly wonder where the balance is sometimes!

I've been reading this thread with interest, as Claudia Dean is very much 'flavour of the month' here in New Zealand, and parents of talented young dancers have been flying to Australia to do workshops with her (as well as begging her to come to NZ). She also appears to have a line of dancewear, as several young NZ dancers at the Asian Grand Prix tagged her in photos of them wearing her leotards to class. I've watched some of her YouTube videos, including the one about why she left the RB, and found her very personable and likeable. But I don't think there is any comparison really with Miko. My son works in Korea, and says that there and in Japan it's quite normal for kids to go to one 'academy' after the other as soon as school finishes every day, to study English or ballet or gymnastics or a musical instrument. So I think Miko's mother would be considered favourably in those societies and it's just our Western opinion of 'Asian tiger mothers' that influences how we feel. Miko says she lost the passion, and seems to have found a new one. As my DD has also lost her passion and wants to study medicine, I think she's made a brave decision after investing so much in ballet. Claudia seems to me quite a different kettle of fish, who is using her valuable dance experience to build a new 'empire'. She is obviously building her 'brand' successfully, and is gathering a good following of young dancers keen to benefit from her recent experience in the ballet world. I'm not critical of either young woman. You take the good things ballet has taught you, and hopefully learn to deal with the not-so-good aspects. I say good for them both for starting a new path!

It is a sad fact that we have tried many pairs (the worst being some sort of salmon pink on DD's lily-white legs). As fast as we found a 'good' shade, her teacher suggested a new brand of pointe shoes, which invariably didn't match. We have tan ballet flats and tights for her neo-classical solo; pale pink for her Freeds; and a darker pink for her Capezio ballet flats. She always knows which pair she needs and I just make sure I keep the drawer stocked. (And always pack two new pairs for competitions)

Just checked her LinkedIn profile and it says she is an undergrad pre-med student at Berkeley:

Loved reading this – indeed every career path has its 'trials' (sorry!). We are off to a competition tomorrow (only two more to go after this and we're done) and I tiptoe around DD the whole time as she finds being on stage by herself traumatic and literally shakes with nerves. This makes her pointe solos even harder!

I absolutely agree with angel. Because my DD was/is 'talented but not driven to want a dance career', we've always said to her 'Dance is something you do – it is not who you ARE'. The whole question of identity is so difficult because these kids grow up in a world dominated by dance from a young age, and just when they hit their teens and are sorting out 'who they are', is when the biggest pressures come on them to succeed, excel, etc. The ballet world is unnatural – my DD wants to be an anaesthetist and I noted that she might only be finishing her training as her dance peers were finishing their ballet careers! There's not many spheres where you train from childhood, start your professional career at 19, and hope to last 10 or 15 years doing it. Such a huge investment for the dancers AND their families. A beloved teacher of ours encouraged us to 'look at the bigger picture' back when DD was 11 and looking at auditioning for Scholars here. I didn't see her point entirely at the time (blinded by the heady possibilities LOL), but now I see she was trying to tell us to keep the rest of DD's life in perspective – that ballet might continue to be part of it, or might not. Either way nobody has failed or given up. Ballet is a tyrant, and many choose to walk away from its exhausting, beautiful, impossible standards. But our DC have all gained so much from their time with this art. Let's allow those DC who have had enough to walk away towards new possibilities that will be more rewarding for them. Crystaltips, I wish you strength and courage. Do follow your instincts!

Great idea, thanks alison. I think I've just followed your advice 😄

My DD does a pointe solo to Elgar's Nimrod from the Enigma Variations (edited to the right length). No idea if it's suitable but it's definitely powerful and builds. The other classic 'build to crescendo' would be Ravel's Bolero?

Just want to say how delighted I am at the lovely responses to this post. I've always wondered how important vocational school at 11 is, and the responses very much follow how I feel – that the talented dancer who is busting to have that whole immersive experience should go, and the family-oriented talented dancer can happily stay at home as long as they can access enough quality training. Hurrah for such supportive and encouraging parents out there!

Hi Dancer, you will get other more helpful replies but I just wanted to say that in New Zealand we don't even have vocational schools at age 11 and people still become professional dancers, some carrying on with normal school; some doing home-schooling or correspondence; and some go to private schools where they can dance and do school (but usually only from age 14 or 15). There's definitely more than one way to a dance career, thank goodness as I imagine there are plenty of 11-yr-olds not ready to go away to school! Yours is obviously very talented and so I encourage you to not feel that your DD is missing out 😁

I'm glad to hear you agree with me about Plume – who on earth would fit their XS then? Or is S their smallest size?

How I feel for you, Kat! My DD is in her last year of competitions, and possibly of dancing. She's in Year 10 and wants to focus on academics next year. We have gone from the 'talented but...' stage to her re-affirming that she didn't want a dance career. It was really after reading posts on here that I made a point of 'giving her permission' to stop. We never set out expecting her to do as well as she has, but reading others' experiences made me realise how we parents can be so proud of our DC's talent and run with it – to auditions, competitions, extra classes, intensives – and some of our DC get caught up in it all without ever checking if it's what they want. I'm also aware of that perfectionist in most talented dancers, that so easily translates into abuse of their bodies as they try to control them in that search for impossible standards. I watch my DD all the time for signs – but also remember how secretive I was in my teens! Now I am slowly getting used to the idea of her dancing coming to an end, while encouraging her to keep up a recreational class or two next year. I've started selling her costumes, and have also taken up adult ballet again after stopping when I was pregnant with DD aged 40. My poor body doesn't know what's hit it and it is HARD. But it's my way of keeping up some contact with the dance world, in my own way. This forum is another way, and I also encourage parents to keep popping in, even if their DC have stopped dancing. I wish you all well. PS: Just wanted to add that none of my post is aimed at anyone else. I'm aware of some of the mistakes I've made, but also know that we all want our DC to be happy and fulfilled and healthy. So I'm not criticising anyone except myself for getting carried away for a while!

I would just add a warning (or two): My DD (now 14, adult size 6, 160cm tall) usually wears XS but in some styles of WearMoi needs an Adult S, and in Plume definitely an Adult S. I agree with all the other comments about the teen sizes being too wide – DD has a 24in waist and age 12-14 is usually baggy in the waist and seat.

Our dance school has a policy that DC don't discuss what mark they got. The results are handed out in envelopes after class and most kids open them on the way home. We do hear occasionally about scores over 90%. I guess kids will talk, but my DD has never asked another student what mark they got. It's obviously important to each child individually to know how well they did, but exam marks only really show that a student has learnt the work and done a good job of presenting it. This year DD has said she doesn't want to do exams any more (she's doing Grade 7 and Adv Foundation classes), and that's fine with me. But I hear other parents complaining if their child doesn't sit an exam every year in each dance style their child does. I guess for some parents it's their only way of seeing progress? At our school the girls are usually starting pointework at 11-12 so would be at IF by then. DD sat IF exam at almost 12 and Intermediate at almost 13. The girls auditioning for full-time training at the end of Year 11 have usually sat Advanced 1 at 15 so I assumed that was a fairly standard progression, but perhaps it varies.

I often see girls just twist up a ponytail and use a scrunchie to hold it in place (could be black or leotard colour?)

Oh my heart aches for you and your daughter, dramascientist. I was initially sad when my DD lost all her joy in dance by the end of Year 8, and since then we have been slowly cutting back the ballet. Now she is in Year 10 and says this will be her last year of competitions (our school year goes from Feb to Dec). She has stopped doing vocational exams, and I'm not sure she will return to dance in 2019. I'm gradually getting used to the idea but it is so strange to try to visualise life without dance after 11 years! Our DD has also shown some destructive behaviour, along with that perfectionist tendency that so many dancers have. It's hard but we have to keep trying to get through to them that they can talk to us. They try to get through that transition from child to adult in a world of mirrors and such demanding schedules and work ethics! No wonder some (if not all) struggle with it. But resilience is such a valuable life skill, and I think that perhaps DC like ours have to step away from the dance world to be able to view it more objectively. Like the others, I wish you both well.

Our dance school has introduced PBT classes this year – junior for Grades 4 & 5, and senior for vocational levels (RAD). The teacher is also a ballet teacher, Pilates instructor and dance physio, who also sorted out DD's knees when she was having trouble with them. DD isn't doing the class but has a private lesson straight after the senior class and it looks excellent. (I think the biggest challenge is having somewhere to store a gazillion Swiss balls!) I think it's especially good for our DC who don't always understand the muscle groups and what they should be activating – gives them a chance to focus on all that without trying to remember steps at the same time.

Hi Aleksja Just wanted to say that I wanted to help but I can't really, as I and many on this forum are parents of dancers who are still growing. So my daughter has outgrown most of her pointe shoes before they 'died'. She's had about four pairs a year for three years but only worn them for 30-60 minutes a week. Hopefully you will get responses from dancers wearing them more consistently, rather than for a half-hour at a time!

Hi Sugarplummum, you don't say if your DD is doing RAD, but at 9 I would have thought she'd be a little further along than Grade 1. Is it possible for her to do Grade 2 alongside Grade 1 and maybe get extra classes that way? Just thinking that in the RAD system they start pointe at age 11 or 12 usually but she wouldn't get up to that level for another few years if she does one grade per year – ie Intermediate Foundation, where pointe starts, comes after Grade 5 so it seems that if she is very keen, she might want to move through the grades a little faster? (Not that I'm in favour of rushing kids, but if she did get into an associates scheme, the other kids are likely to be a couple of years ahead in technique. I know it's hard but sometimes you do have to speak up or do what's best for your DC even if it's difficult!)

Replying to MAK: DD has similar-sounding feet. She started in Bloch Sylphide (not good), then Aspirations (ok but looked very square and 'blocky'). Then Russian Pointe, which she was happy with... Now she has a teacher who likes Freed and she is wearing their Studio Pro in a EE (She's usually a B/C width in Bloch). The Freeds are hard to start with but wear in quickly and are lovely and quiet. The Studio Pros have a type of three-quarter shank that makes her not-very-bendy feet look better. (She is 14, en pointe 3 years)

Paula was the Artistic Director of our dance school until she was appointed to this job. She wouldn't have stepped down lightly, and we are waiting to see her back here in NZ. She is legendary in this country in the dance world! (She taught my DD for Intermediate, and DD was joking about getting her Grade 6 exam certificate with a handwritten note giving Paula's opinion of her marks!)

Lin, my husband is a hospital nurse and can now spot the young women doctors who have danced, just by their posture and way they walk. It certainly stays in your body after all those years!

NZ only has seven 'academic' universities (we only have about 4 million people) and she would have to find dance classes elsewhere. The performing arts are generally only offered at polytech-type places or at our national School of Dance (which only offers full-time classical or contemporary). She wants to study medicine, which is only offered at undergraduate level at two universities. As she'll be away from home, paying for dance classes is not likely to be high up on the budget! I also find that the girls often walk right away from ballet for at least a few years after finishing school, and may seek out adult classes after a break. The ones who aren't pursuing a dance career often seem to need to make that break, and then choose what they do when they're ready. So that's why we are encouraging her to try things like swimming and running that she can keep up as a penniless student. On the upside, more and more places are offering barre classes and Pilates type workouts, which were unheard-of when I was at uni.