ROH Autumn 23 booking

[emmarose]

I don't know if this helps anyone, but I check out separately. I have different windows open for each performance and then go through them separately. 

 

At least if there's a problem at the end it won't affect all of the tickets, you might be lucky with them all, or unlucky with one. But all of them in a basket together means if it all goes wrong you have to start all over again.

 

That's just what I've found and have had no issues.

[Blossom]

Is it particularly bad because of wider appeal for Nutcracker?

[San Perregrino]

On 14/07/2023 at 13:49, Linnzi5 said:

I want to know the casts before I book and am surprised there is not any information on casting yet.

 

if memory serves me correctly, for the last run of Dante there was no advance casting information beyond the Dante & Virgil characters, plus perhaps Beatrice?

for anyone not already familiar with Dante Project, this is very much an ensemble piece that includes a wide variety of the company's dancers from all levels.  on the night, casting wasn't a disappointment

 

e.g. on 14.10.2021 the cast included:

 

Edward Watson, Gary Avis, Sarah Lamb, Paul Kay, Joseph Sissens, Hannah Grennell, Melissa Hamilton, Meaghan Grace Hinkis, Mayara Magri, James Hay,  Lukas B. Brændsrød, Harry Churches, Ashley Dean, Leticia Dias, Leo Dixon, Joshua Junker, Sae Maeda, Katharina Nikelski, David Yudes, Luca Acri, Matthew Ball, Benjamin Ella, Giacomo Rovero, Marcelino Sambé, Stanisław Węgrzyn, Fumi Kaneko, Marco Masciari, Marco Betteridge-Jimenez  Francesca Hayward, Rose Milner, William Bracewell, Ryoichi Hirano, Calvin Richardson, Anna Rose O’Sullivan, Alexander Campbell, Olivia Cowley, Lauren Cuthbertson,  Yasmine Naghdi, Natalia Osipova, Romany Pajdak,  Akane Takada

[art_enthusiast]

52 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I think that if you got the 'thank you for your purchase' message it must be OK. I think I've sometimes had a long gap until the email confirmations came through, so I hope yours will arrive before long.

 

Thank you
It's annoying that their automated email response says - "If you have just booked - confirmation emails can take up to 30m to arrive on busy booking days.  Tickets will appear in your Upcoming Events in your ROH account around the same time."

 

It's way longer than 30 minutes!

[art_enthusiast]

14 minutes ago, PeterS said:

 

if memory serves me correctly, for the last run of Dante there was no advance casting information beyond the Dante & Virgil characters, plus perhaps Beatrice?

for anyone not already familiar with Dante Project, this is very much an ensemble piece that includes a wide variety of the company's dancers from all levels. 

 

I agree that it is very much an ensemble piece, which is great. I think the casting for Dante would sway me given that he is on throughout each Act. Still, I've booked blindly this time as I really like the whole ballet and score.

[LinMM]

Thankyou for your comment about trains Dawnstar but not having much luck there either! 
I decided to leave a bit earlier with the windy weather and all and hoping might be a bit more hassle free! 
Well have just waited on a train in the platform at Brighton for 25 mins ( was suppose to leave at 3pm) because they were “trying to find the driver” Now this train has just been declared cancelled and I’ve just done a mad dash to another platform to get the next train from there!

Todays saga goes on!! 
Just hoping there are no trees about to topple over 😳

[emmarose]

Good luck getting in safely LMM, have everything crossed the train goes smoothly! 

[LinMM]

Thankyou Emmarose!! 
Thank goodness for this Forum!! 
This next train is now on the move and we are now at Gatwick Airport so about half way!! 

[alison]

2 hours ago, PeterS said:

 

if memory serves me correctly, for the last run of Dante there was no advance casting information beyond the Dante & Virgil characters, plus perhaps Beatrice?

 

Yes, but you at least want to see who the Dante is, to have an indication of whether there are two (or more?) separate casts.  "Cast A" and "Cast B" would do at a pinch in this case.  We didn't have that last time, I think, as it was a new piece, and I booked blind and only got one Bonelli cast.  "Never mind, I'll see him next time", I thought - and we know what happened then!

[emmarose]

28 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Thankyou Emmarose!! 
Thank goodness for this Forum!! 
This next train is now on the move and we are now at Gatwick Airport so about half way!! 

Everything crossed!

[Sophie_B]

2 hours ago, emmarose said:

I don't know if this helps anyone, but I check out separately. I have different windows open for each performance and then go through them separately. 

 

At least if there's a problem at the end it won't affect all of the tickets, you might be lucky with them all, or unlucky with one. But all of them in a basket together means if it all goes wrong you have to start all over again.

 

That's just what I've found and have had no issues.

Absolutely, and thank you for the tip. However, when coordinating booking for a group (which I usually do), it can be very helpful to have 2 sets of tickets in my basket for about 20 mins to double-check that everyone is happy. Or putting a semi-expensive seated ticket in the basket while checking whether there's the option of SCS if I booked on that cast's other date... When the website *does* work as it should, it can be very handy for these situations! 

[emmarose]

1 hour ago, Sophie_B said:

Absolutely, and thank you for the tip. However, when coordinating booking for a group (which I usually do), it can be very helpful to have 2 sets of tickets in my basket for about 20 mins to double-check that everyone is happy. Or putting a semi-expensive seated ticket in the basket while checking whether there's the option of SCS if I booked on that cast's other date... When the website *does* work as it should, it can be very handy for these situations! 

 

Oh god, yeah that's when it's beneficial. I don't think I could deal with the stress of booking and having to check with others and go back and forth. You have my respect and I imagine the website really needs to be working in every way for you to successfully get through it all. 

[JohnS]

A number of people said they’d be interested in seeing any response from Alex Beard to the points made in my post above. Following further email exchanges I put together a draft précis of what Alex Beard told me about the ROH’s pricing policy which he is very happy for me to post on the Forum. I do hope it is of interest.

 

“Alex Beard makes clear that he very much appreciates feedback provided by Friends and patrons and welcomes the analyses and suggestions made which have been taken on board by himself and the executive team.

 

As regards pricing policy, Alex Beard sees fairness as vitally important: indeed it is front and centre of all the changes being made. The ROH needs to balance accessibility with the financial imperative. Its costs are affected not just by inflation but also the immense challenges of upgrading ageing backstage infrastructure, which itself requires millions of pounds of capital investment. Combined with changing consumer habits and other pressures on the ROH’s finances, the ROH must make some changes to a pricing model which has remained largely unchanged for many years. 

 

Alex Beard explains the broad sense of the changes being made: in short, the ROH is looking to better align demand with seats, which means changes to price bands for certain areas of the auditorium, and also the relative prices between productions. The ROH is doing this in a staged way to ensure there is an increase in overall yield, to cover ever-mounting costs, while at the same time ensuring it maintains a significant proportion of tickets at affordable prices to remain accessible. He is confident that the ROH’s pricing policy combines accessibility, fairness and the financial viability of the organisation which will enable it to navigate further financial uncertainty ahead.

 

Whilst there have been some teething problems in rolling out and testing changes, Alex Beard emphasises that the decisions and changes being made are not taken lightly, and are the result of rigorous internal and external scrutiny. The ROH approached this project initially by engaging expert consultants, who have subsequently, over many months, conducted a comprehensive review of ROH data, compared it with the rest of the theatre sector, and generated fully-costed and robust recommendations. This work has suggested that there may be advantage in moving to more compressed price bands (a somewhat reduced number of price bands with lower differentials between some of them), bringing the ROH more into line with most other theatres and arts venues. 

 

The specifics of these recommendations have subsequently been reviewed and interrogated by the ROH’s executive team, Finance Committee and the Board of Trustees, before being trialled on a test basis to evaluate the risks alongside benefits before wider roll-out and implementation. 

 

Alex Beard concludes by reiterating the rationale for change. Ultimately the aim is to optimise box office revenue at a time of sharply declining Arts Council funding and rising costs so that the ROH can continue to sustain its work on stage. The ROH is aiming to set prices which achieve maximum occupancy and yield with as little a headline price rise as possible, minimising discounting and continuing to ensure it remains as accessible as possible.”

[Don Q Fan]

After queuing for 45 mins I was looking at different shoes and after a while I got booted out saying max no tickets reached I hadn't booked any then I tried again and got an error code. So nothings improved has it! I got 1 ticket later today but £125 is eye watering for my preferred seat. 

I can ever see available seats on my smartphone with this new seat ticket system they've got,  any ideas what to do? It's all just grey. It briefly flashes the available seats but immediately goes grey so I HAVE to use a PC which is v annoying. World Class? Nope. 

[jmhopton]

9 hours ago, art_enthusiast said:

 can't see my tickets showing up in my events yet

A couple of times in the last month my upcoming events disappeared from my mailbox. The first time I emailed the friends and they sorted it. Then it happened again but they just reappeared eventually. Also, sometimes they appear on the computer but not when I login on my phone. The latter is a bit concerning for the actual event so I might print them out for the actual visit which I was really trying to avoid.

[bridiem]

Thank you for posting Alex Beard's comments, @JohnS. They all sound so reasonable and well thought-out, but the proof of the pudding... How could such alleged effort and scrutiny result in so many anomalies, 'mis-steps' and unreasonable price rises? All the right words, but not in the right order...

[RHowarth]

1 hour ago, JohnS said:

"The ROH is aiming to set prices which achieve maximum occupancy and yield with as little a headline price rise as possible, minimising discounting and continuing to ensure it remains as accessible sible as possible.”

I understand headline pricing as 'tickets from £x to £y' or sometimes just 'tickets from £x' - as opposed for instance to dynamic pricing where prices rise and fall in accordance with demand. So, it fits with what we are seeing - they are playing around with pricing *within* that range, raising prices in the mid and lower ranges of the house so as to maximise yield without impacting on the top price.

Edited August 2, 2023 by RHowarth

[capybara]

Thank you @JohnS. All very interesting but with perhaps too many phrases from Alex Beard which we have heard several times before.

 

One wonders whether these external experts

a) paused to contemplate the relationship between “certain areas of the house being popular” and the significance of the price point in making them popular; or

b) undertook an analysis such as yours to help inform their thinking.

 

We know that they did a survey which seemed to be about how much people would be prepared to pay but, actually, a small think-tank drawn from, say, BCF members might have yielded more of real value at far less cost to the ROH.

 

And why does an organisation like the ROH, which has so much internal data and staff knowledge to draw on, seem always to turn to expensive consultants to make fundamental recommendations for change?

 

[JohnS]

I know what you mean @bridiem. I don’t know what analysis was put forward to support the rationale for experimental pricing such as Don Q. I’d have hoped it included comparisons with other Autumn productions which were not part of the pricing experiment. But then if comparisons were made, how would it be possible to justify the fairness of the very high amphitheatre side prices (lowest price £52 and higher than all other productions save Das Rheingold) and the very low (£14) lower slips price which doesn’t really square with maximising box office revenue?

 

I think there’s another strand to your concern @RHowarth. If there’s a reduction in the number of price categories and the differentials between price categories are also reduced (even if the reductions are marginal), doesn’t that inevitably mean medium/lower prices must rise … unless top prices fall which seems unlikely?

 

But perhaps these questions illustrate the difficulties of trying to achieve the objectives of fairness, accessibility and maximising box office revenue as well as concerns as how that balance is being struck.

[Mary]

10 minutes ago, capybara said:

why does an organisation like the ROH, which has so much internal data and staff knowledge to draw on, seem always to turn to expensive consultants to make fundamental recommendations for change?

 

I think that is the main question...

 

But I am guessing the ROH,  like so many of our national organisations, has lost a lot of these well-informed, long- serving staff in recent years ( it is very obvious front of house and sadly in the box office) and there is a damaging  trend for employing incredibly expensive outside 'consultants' who deal in nothing but airy jargon and actually know nothing at all about the business in question. I saw it at my own place of work.

The recent advert for marketing staff - 'no knowledge of the arts required'  -exemplified the trend. They then move on, quite unscathed, and much richer,  after doing a lot of damage, leaving the organisation picking up the pieces for years. I hope very much that is not happening here but I do begin to worry.

 

 

[JNC]

3 hours ago, JohnS said:

the ROH is looking to better align demand with seats, which means changes to price bands for certain areas of the auditorium, and also the relative prices between productions.

Does Alex Beard not realise that certain seats were in demand BECAUSE they were a certain price/value and this strategy is eroding this. 
 

I really do not see any evidence in any of what Alex Beard is saying that fairness is at the heart of their policy. Only greedy grabbing squeezing every single maximum pound out of every possible seat. 
 

How much did these external consultants cost? I wonder if before engaging these people they considered doing focus groups with audience members, Friends and non-Friends who would likely have done it for free, or perhaps for a voucher to use towards a performance or a free programme and ice cream. 
 

I do appreciate Alex Beard is in a difficult position but his reply frankly stinks of corporate messaging. I guess in fairness to him he did bother to reply at least so I’ll give him that.

 

Sorry to hear lots of booking issues this morning - has anyone contacted ROH about this bizarre exceeded ticket allocation people are experiencing so they can attempt to fix it? (I presume going by previous experience it will take ages so they might as well start now and maybe it’ll be sorted by the opening of the 24/25 season).

 

Sorry to be so cynical but the prices just feel out of control and whilst data is important it feels pure data without understanding the consumer, and what is “fair” isn’t actually worth much. 

[zxDaveM]

50 minutes ago, JNC said:

 

Sorry to hear lots of booking issues this morning - has anyone contacted ROH about this bizarre exceeded ticket allocation people are experiencing so they can attempt to fix it?

 

Yes, I sent them a screenshot, and got a reply: "we're looking into it" (with a few lame 'try this' suggestions). Envisged 10-12 management types standing around a hole with a worker with a pick'n'shovel at the bottom of it

[Bluebird]

11 hours ago, JohnS said:

I think there’s another strand to your concern @RHowarth. If there’s a reduction in the number of price categories and the differentials between price categories are also reduced (even if the reductions are marginal), doesn’t that inevitably mean medium/lower prices must rise … unless top prices fall which seems unlikely?

 

But, when you compare the prices for Beauty and Cinderella to those for Don Q,  some top prices have, indeed, fallen:

 

For Beauty and Cinderella, the top price in the amphitheatre was £112.  For Don Q it's £104.

 

In the side stalls circle, the decrease is even greater: 

 

For Beauty and Cinderella,  the bench seats in Stalls Circle row B (16-27 and 86-97) were £112.  For Don Q these seats have two prices: £83 and £67

 

The explanation for the large reduction in price of these stalls circle side seats could be that they have a restricted view. However, if they can lower the price of these seats because of their restricted view,  how can they justify the very steep increase in price for the restricted view front side amphitheatre seats?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bluebird

[capybara]

9 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

The explanation for the large reduction in price of these stalls circle side seats could be that they have a restricted view. However, if they can lower the price of these seats because of their restricted view,  how can they justify the very steep increase in price for the restricted view front side amphitheatre seats?

But @Bluebird the Stalls Circle Row B sides bench seats virtually doubled in price (to £112) for Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella last season. Perhaps that overcharging was part of the experiment?

The disparity in treatment between that area of the House and the Amphi is beyond me.

[Bluebird]

37 minutes ago, capybara said:

But @Bluebird the Stalls Circle Row B sides bench seats virtually doubled in price (to £112) for Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella last season. Perhaps that overcharging was part of the experiment?

The disparity in treatment between that area of the House and the Amphi is beyond me.

 

Thank you for letting me know about that.  I've just checked the 2022 prices for Swan Lake and those same seats were £81 so it was a bit under a 40% increase to £112 (if my arithmetic is faulty I'm happy to be corrected). I agree this was a huge increase and I'm glad to see they've come to their senses! The better seats in these rows are now priced at £83 with the ones nearer the stage at £67.  It's good to be able to say something positive about the pricing - i.e. they've recognised that the restriction in view is greater, the closer the seat is to the stage. 

 

By the way, I also compared the 2022 Swan Lake prices to the 2023 Don Q prices for the bench seats in Stalls Circle Row C.  Those prices have been reduced.  They were £67 for Swan Lake and are £52 for Don Q.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bluebird

[LinMM]

I’ve just somehow realised that now public booking is open there is no updating of Nutcracker casting. 
Are we only going to get the sugar plum and Prince casting this year or does the other main casting come up at a later date? 
I’d like to book one other Nutcracker and there are several equally enticing Sugar Plums and Princes so I’d probably then book it according to which dancers are doing the other roles. 
Is it just too early for this additional casting or are we not going to be told this year? 
If not then I will probably not book until it actually starts in December so can get some idea of casting then. 
This must be a bit annoying for people having to fully pre plan a visit as live so far away. 
I know casting can change anyway nearer the time but having an idea of who might be chosen for certain roles would be helpful. 

 

[San Perregrino]

1 minute ago, LinMM said:

I’ve just somehow realised that now public booking is open there is no updating of Nutcracker casting. 
Are we only going to get the sugar plum and Prince casting this year or does the other main casting come up at a later date? 
I’d like to book one other Nutcracker and there are several equally enticing Sugar Plums and Princes so I’d probably then book it according to which dancers are doing the other roles. 
Is it just too early for this additional casting or are we not going to be told this year? 
If not then I will probably not book until it actually starts in December so can get some idea of casting then. 
This must be a bit annoying for people having to fully pre plan a visit as live so far away. 
I know casting can change anyway nearer the time but having an idea of who might be chosen for certain roles would be helpful. 

 

 

other members' memories may be better than mine, but my gut feeling is that it is way too early to know the casting for Clara, Hans-Peter or Drosselmeyer.  i pretty much recall that last year i booked the Sugar pairings i wanted to see when tickets went on sale and then bought additional tickets when further casting was announced so that i could see specific Clara/Hans-Peter pairings. as you say, the Nut season is prone to injury, illness and indisposition so it's always a bit of a lottery.  

[capybara]

Thank you @Bluebird for being more accurate than my memory 😁 It’s great to have you and @JohnS providing BCF with reliable data.

I have a feeling that the Swan Lake prices for those Stalls Circle bench seats already represented an increase on the norm but £112 was a real shock, especially for Cinderella where the set and arrangement of corps dancers obscured more of the stage than usual.

In fact, I complained so much about that that I might actually have worn the price-deciders back down to a more reasonable level.

[LinMM]

I see there is no additional casting for Don Q either …which I still haven’t booked. So will be interesting to see if this appears before the season starts. 

I did have a word with the box office in person yesterday about the Nov 7th “last minute invited guests event” and they said they knew nothing about the change either so were also caught out but the very helpful young lady noted my email and said she would see what she could find out about it and seemed to understand completely me wanting to know if there would be any likelihood of returns for this day at a later date. So will see if anything comes out of this enquiry. 
I still think it’s really cheeky and presumptuous of the powers that be so this had better be something REALLY special to justify their action. 
 

[bridiem]

21 minutes ago, PeterS said:

other members' memories may be better than mine, but my gut feeling is that it is way too early to know the casting for Clara, Hans-Peter or Drosselmeyer.  i pretty much recall that last year i booked the Sugar pairings i wanted to see when tickets went on sale and then bought additional tickets when further casting was announced so that i could see specific Clara/Hans-Peter pairings. as you say, the Nut season is prone to injury, illness and indisposition so it's always a bit of a lottery.  

 

I'm pretty sure that the casting info for these roles has been given in time for booking opening in the past, because it's always been a big influence for me on which performances to book. (cf wanting to see Gary Avis as Drosselmeyer, Romany Pajdak as Clara, etc.).

[Blossom]

Re 7 Nov, from the outset, the whole of the left hand side map of the auditorium was blocked out in grey bar 1 or 2 seats, so I think this had always appeared to be some sort of invited event, 

[LinMM]

Oh okay thanks. So only Friends would have had some inkling something was possibly up!! But nobody mentioned it though …pre public booking ….until Bluebirds mentioning the email received on Tuesday!!! ….perhaps not so many booking for that particular performance then. 

[Blossom]

If anyone wants a single ticket to Magri/Corrales on 7 Nov (Row B stalls circle centre, bar exit side, £125), my friend is no longer able to join me from abroad due to a work conference. I'm strategically holding onto the ticket because the date is off sale. No commitment needs to be made right now, but PM me if you want to be pencilled in on my spreadsheet...