Royal Ballet 2023/24 Season - predictions/wishes

[Guest oncnp]

At least a couple RB dancers will be performing Bayadere - in Hong Kong

https://www.hkballet.com/en/see-hkb/production/la-bayadere

[Scheherezade]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

These days anything can be racist or offensive. It’s getting ridiculous.  During the last run of Bayadere an older Hindu lady and her daughter were sitting in front of me.  I was standing and when they were leaving they were smiling broadly.  The older lady smiled at me so I smiled back and asked if they had enjoyed it.  They both loved it and said how great it was to see a classical ballet portraying part of their culture.  So no offence taken there…she had a positive approach.  I am sure she would be very disappointed now with people being “offended” on her behalf.  

I have friends who are Indian, Saudi, Chinese and indigenous Malay, Turkish, Lebanese and Syrian, plus those who have children with autism or learning difficulties. 

They, their families and friends have all enjoyed the works that are under discussion, from Nutcracker, through Fille, to Bayadere and everything inbetween.
None of them has been remotely offended and all are appalled that others who do not share their heritage or absence of social skills have the temerity to take offence on their behalf or to deny them and others the right to experience, enjoy or react in any other way to works of artistic merit or, for that matter, works with little or no artistic merit.
They take the view that they have the right to decide for themselves and they do not enjoy being patronised by professional offendees or the organisations that appease this vocal but unrepresentative minority. 

[Pas de Quatre]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

I saw Clockwork Orange when it first came out, and thought it was brilliant.  What made it controversial was the slow motion scenes of violence, accompanied by classical music.  I saw it again recently, and it looks positively tame in comparison to the violence portrayed  in many modern films.

 

Incidentally, I believe it was only banned in the UK because Kubrick lived here.  He was being absolutely pilloried by the media, and his whole family were receiving death threats from various loonies, so he pulled it.  

I too saw it when it first came out and it was indeed impressive. It has always been considered an Art House film in Europe, not a how to manual for thuggery. The sequel "O Lucky Man" was as good if not better, but never got general distribution, so only seen in a few cinemas.

By the way I don't like Mayerling, once was enough. 

 

[Pas de Quatre]

The system seems to have gone bananas and repeated my post. Mods can you delete the two extras!

[JNC]

4 hours ago, balletfanatic said:

I love Mayerling - nothing should ever be banned. You don't have to see it again if you don't like it but why stop other people enjoying it

I don’t like Mayerling but don’t think it should be banned. I don’t have an issue with it I just don’t enjoy the choreography. (I just probably haven’t seen the right cast and dates didn’t align so I missed Muntagirov!) 

 

I also didn’t have a problem with nutcracker’s Arabian dance, I find the new one boring in comparison and a bit awkward choreographic ally (again maybe casting)…

 

I can’t remember liking or disliking the previous Chinese dance but I don’t recall thinking it was offensive or racist (which I did feel slightly about Madame Butterfly at ROH)

[Blossom]

1 hour ago, Naomi M said:

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity.. 

 

I suppose I should be glad I have it on DVD to enjoy then! Hopefully the revisions won't be too major. I can imagine what some of them might be...

[JNC]

1 hour ago, Naomi M said:

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity.. 

 

they probably didn’t say, but I wonder which bits of the production?

 

I could just be being ignorant but I genuinely didn’t see any issue with it when I saw it a few years ago.

 

Genuinely baffled.

 

it’s also not a documentary!!! And doesn’t sell itself as such…! You could remove the description in the ballet and just not mention a setting and would we even know it’s “meant” to be set in India? Tutus are hardly Indian are they. If that’s the issue get rid of the turban Solor wears (not exclusively Indian anyway) and the tiger (?) and then could you even say where it’s set (if now?)…

[Jan McNulty]

This article I found in The I implies that Bayadere had been controversial in the past but the latest controversy, in 2018, seems to have been started by one man demanding an apology.

 

https://inews.co.uk/culture/arts/hindus-apology-royal-opera-house-la-bayadere-racism-cultural-appropriation-223861

 

Even if the whole ballet is not performed surely the Shades could be performed as part of a triple?

[Richard LH]

3 hours ago, balletfanatic said:

I love it because it's dramatic and its representing a real life story. Real life can be depressing and distasteful. Otherwise why not just show one fairy tale after the next. Art and culture are meant to make us think and react. We are adults and should be able to handle it imo

Yes real life is often depressing and distasteful..... personally I don't necessarily want, or need, to pay for  a ballet performance just to be reminded of that, but of course that's just my choice. I don't think it's a question of not being able to  "handle it" as an adult!

And there are plenty of wonderful ballet options without just relying on "fairytales". 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Richard LH
Bad punctuation

[LinMM]

Agree Jan!  This was often the case anyway before the Royal got the full Bayadere. 
I think it wouldn’t take much anyway to make “revisions” which could make it work successfully ….just hoping the somebodies who can get on with it ….so we can all see the whole ballet again in the not too distant future! 
Of course it’s not representative of modern day culture but then neither are the ancient stories from India about the various goings on of the Gods that representative though gloriously fascinating and interesting especially when depicted in performances of Indian Dance today. And English people have been welcomed into the Indian Dance groups I’ve known ….not a problem at all even for community performances. 
 

Edited April 4, 2023 by LinMM

[Richard LH]

42 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

The system seems to have gone bananas and repeated my post. Mods can you delete the two extras!

As you said, once was enough! 😂

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Naomi M said:

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity.. 

 

I have a feeling that many of us on here would very much like to see 'your' dancer (and others) as Nikiya.

And that's one of the very unfortunate 'unintended consequences' of all this - opportunities lost within careers and audiences deprived of the joy of seeing artists who are 'made for the roles'.

[Fonty]

Had the President of the Universal Society of Hinduism actually seen the ballet himself?  And how many people need to complain before the management rushes to remove it? 

My heart sinks when I see the name of Luke Jennings mentioned.  He seems to find everything offensive.  He once wrote that The Dream needed a serious overhaul, and that it was offensive to see Oberon going about looking camp with drag queen make up (or something like that.) Perhaps it was the fairies that complained.  These days they probably prefer to be depicted with designer stubble.

[Lizbie1]

I must be very lucky, because "drug use, sexual violence and suicide" have so far not been part of my "real life". IMO Macmillan seems almost to enjoy dwelling on the dark side of human nature as much as some other ballets may emphasise the upside. There is more light than shade in most people's lives.

 

And there is no shame in sending an audience out happy!

[Sim]

Looks like I’m a lightweight when it comes to violence.  Even if the Clockwork Orange clips show the worst of it, that is more than enough for me.  

[balletfanatic]

40 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Yes real life is often depressing and distasteful..... personally I don't necessarily want, or need, to pay for  a ballet performance just to be reminded of that, but of course that's just my choice. I don't think it's a question of not being able to  "handle it" as an adult!

And there are plenty of wonderful ballet options without just relying on "fairytales". 

I agree but everything seems to offend someone these days so that's what I meant that only fairy tales will end up being safe at this rate and maybe even they will offend someone.. cinderella and sleeping beauty being rescued by a Prince may offend some people! All this censorship has just all got out of hand in my view 

 

[MildConcern]

25 minutes ago, capybara said:

I have a feeling that many of us on here would very much like to see 'your' dancer (and others) as Nikiya.

And that's one of the very unfortunate 'unintended consequences' of all this - opportunities lost within careers and audiences deprived of the joy of seeing artists who are 'made for the roles'.

Yes, this is the main tragedy. Nikiya and Gamazatti are two of the most intriguing roles in the classical ballet repertoire, where the choreographic and dramatic demands are quite unique. Given that the RB has a very high number of female principals (I want to say a record high, but this might be easily disproven!), Bayadere could give everyone a 'run out', so to speak. As we have said extensively on other threads, the small amount of main stage performances for each principal is something that is hard to resolve. 

 

But alas! I was quite wistfully jealous at the Kaneko / Muntagirov / Naghdi Bayadere that was staged in Brno last year. 

[Mary]

I am rather sorry i might have inadvertently de railed the thread by mentioning Fille.

In the first place, Richard was right to remind me that I should get the facts first before complaining that it has been retired for reasons of sensitivity.

 

But, I was just observing that it seemed odd, if one was going to review the RB's rep for insensitive content, to start with Fille  mal Gardee  - and I still think so!

 

As regards 'sanitizing' or 'banning' the Macmillans I am not advocating either but would say that - it is the other way round in fact: it is the ballets which sanitize and are in danger of glamorising the content.  Because that is not what drug abuse,  suicide and sexual violence actually look like.

Macmillan was a genius choreographer but also a sensationalist and at times i do tire of the works.

 

But whatever your view, I don't think anyone can reasonably complain that they have not had enough opportunity to see Macmillan's representations of these themes on the ROH stage ( and in screenings and on DVD.)

 

Whereas there are many fine ballets which are adult, serious,  profound,- not just fairy tales, though they can be profound too -  without attempting to depict such events on stage: see the lists  people have given above- quite a few of which do not get staged any more/very often, while the Macmillans circle endlessly.

 

 

[capybara]

 

51 minutes ago, MildConcern said:

 

But alas! I was quite wistfully jealous at the Kaneko / Muntagirov / Naghdi Bayadere that was staged in Brno last year. 

With Kevin O’Hare in the audience !!!! 

[Richard LH]

2 hours ago, balletfanatic said:

cinderella and sleeping beauty being rescued by a Prince may offend some people!

Yes of course, all sorts of offensiveness to do with the entitled class system, informed consent etc......(yawn)! 🥱

Unfortunately some people seem obsessed with looking for problem social/cultural issues where none really exist.

[Benjamin]

7 hours ago, Naomi M said:

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity.. 

Interesting… Thanks for this! They better not get rid of Yolanda Sonnabends Designs!

[Benjamin]

5 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

This article I found in The I implies that Bayadere had been controversial in the past but the latest controversy, in 2018, seems to have been started by one man demanding an apology.

 

https://inews.co.uk/culture/arts/hindus-apology-royal-opera-house-la-bayadere-racism-cultural-appropriation-223861

 

Even if the whole ballet is not performed surely the Shades could be performed as part of a triple?

One person! They should ask the community, and I’ll say it again, get a cultural consultant. Shades would work well in a good Russian classic triple Maybe with Raymonda Act III and something else.

[Benjamin]

5 hours ago, Richard LH said:

Yes real life is often depressing and distasteful..... personally I don't necessarily want, or need, to pay for  a ballet performance just to be reminded of that, but of course that's just my choice. I don't think it's a question of not being able to  "handle it" as an adult!

And there are plenty of wonderful ballet options without just relying on "fairytales". 

I agree even though most people

can handle it, I think it’s still alarming and distasteful for some of those people that can handle it, but again if they really don’t like it, just don’t go and see it. 

[Benjamin]

5 hours ago, Fonty said:

Had the President of the Universal Society of Hinduism actually seen the ballet himself?  And how many people need to complain before the management rushes to remove it? 

My heart sinks when I see the name of Luke Jennings mentioned.  He seems to find everything offensive.  He once wrote that The Dream needed a serious overhaul, and that it was offensive to see Oberon going about looking camp with drag queen make up (or something like that.) Perhaps it was the fairies that complained.  These days they probably prefer to be depicted with designer stubble.

That’s does not add up, The Dream that’s one of the most family friendly and least offensive, it’s magical and a fairytale story and doesn’t have a princes that needs to find love, it’s perfect!

[Scheherezade]

4 hours ago, balletfanatic said:

I agree but everything seems to offend someone these days so that's what I meant that only fairy tales will end up being safe at this rate and maybe even they will offend someone.. cinderella and sleeping beauty being rescued by a Prince may offend some people! All this censorship has just all got out of hand in my view 

 

 

As they already have: Sleeping Beauty because she is kissed by the prince without giving permission; Cinderella for implying that unattractive people and stepsisters are more likely to be unpleasant and cruel; both because the idea of the princely saviour glorifies privilege and entitlement rather than toil and hard work.
I am surprised that objections have not been raised at the transformation of the mice and other animals for the sole purpose of facilitating Cinderella’s attendance at something as distasteful as a ball.

Let’s face it, we have already fully embraced the philosophy behind book-burning and the thought police. 

[jmhopton]

9 hours ago, Naomi M said:

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity.. 

 

I do get very angry that these days the wishes of a tiny vocal minority of protesters are often listened to and acted on. What about the vast majority of viewers who really enjoyed the ballet and would love to see it again? Presumably our wishes don't count. Why are management so terrified of offending anyone these days? Do they think they will sue the ROH because they don't like the way India is depicted on stage? It is just ridiculous, and if this is the case I'm really offended that my right to see a great nineteenth century classic ballet has been taken away from me. It's just the worst form of censorship because it masquerades as 'protecting' an audience from potentially 'offensive' material. Well, I don't want protecting, thank you very much. I know what I like and what I don't like and I'm quite capable of doing my own form of censorship and not attending performances I don't like, though it's more a matter of personal taste than being offended and I certainly wouldn't want anything I don't like not to be staged. If this iniquitous form of censorship goes ahead where will it stop, rape in Manon, drug taking in Mayerling, national stereotypes in the divertissments in the Tchaikovsky ballets, madness in Giselle, donkeys in The Dream. Any and every ballet (and any art form) can have something in it than can offend someone. If you censored anything that might offend a minority you'll end up with a tiny repertory that would probably please no one. So don't censor and let people make up their own minds and if anyone complains don't give into them but politely remind them this is a free country with a varied Arts sector which is the envy of many countries which don't have the freedoms of expression we take for granted, and we should be very grateful for this and celebrate it not censor it.

[Richard LH]

Well said @jmhopton!

[Angela Essex]

Totally agree @jmhopton

[Benjamin]

7 hours ago, jmhopton said:

 

I do get very angry that these days the wishes of a tiny vocal minority of protesters are often listened to and acted on. What about the vast majority of viewers who really enjoyed the ballet and would love to see it again? Presumably our wishes don't count. Why are management so terrified of offending anyone these days? Do they think they will sue the ROH because they don't like the way India is depicted on stage? It is just ridiculous, and if this is the case I'm really offended that my right to see a great nineteenth century classic ballet has been taken away from me. It's just the worst form of censorship because it masquerades as 'protecting' an audience from potentially 'offensive' material. Well, I don't want protecting, thank you very much. I know what I like and what I don't like and I'm quite capable of doing my own form of censorship and not attending performances I don't like, though it's more a matter of personal taste than being offended and I certainly wouldn't want anything I don't like not to be staged. If this iniquitous form of censorship goes ahead where will it stop, rape in Manon, drug taking in Mayerling, national stereotypes in the divertissments in the Tchaikovsky ballets, madness in Giselle, donkeys in The Dream. Any and every ballet (and any art form) can have something in it than can offend someone. If you censored anything that might offend a minority you'll end up with a tiny repertory that would probably please no one. So don't censor and let people make up their own minds and if anyone complains don't give into them but politely remind them this is a free country with a varied Arts sector which is the envy of many countries which don't have the freedoms of expression we take for granted, and we should be very grateful for this and celebrate it not censor it.

Agreed! Great response!

[Benjamin]

If the past seasons are anything to go by The 23/24 Season Should have just been announced (8:00am London Time and The First Wednesday of April) I wonder if we will see it later today, this week, or in the coming weeks, Someone said that according to the box office it would be announced on April 26 (3 weeks later than It usually is) Does anyone have any more info?

[Lizbie1]

If the box office said April 26th that's likely when it is.

 

I don't know where the idea that the first Wednesday of April is the "usual" date comes from. From my recollection it's highly variable; a look at press releases (which only go back a few years on the ROH website) has the 19/20 season announced on May 19th; then Covid happened; then 21/22 was "previewed" in late March and announced fully on 1st June.

 

(I don't have the stamina to check back through the forum for announcements before then.)

[Benjamin]

15 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

If the box office said April 26th that's likely when it is.

 

I don't know where the idea that the first Wednesday of April is the "usual" date comes from. From my recollection it's highly variable; a look at press releases (which only go back a few years on the ROH website) has the 19/20 season announced on May 19th; then Covid happened; then 21/22 was "previewed" in late March and announced fully on 1st June.

 

(I don't have the stamina to check back through the forum for announcements before then.)

Every day I believe more that the Date is April 26th (a Wednesday), but here are the past years dates:

2022/23 6 April 🟩 (Wednesday)

2021/22 1 June (Tuesday)

2020/21 I don’t know

2019/20 14 May (or there about)

2018/19 20 March (or there about)

2017/18 5 April 🟩 (Wednesday)

2016/17 6 April 🟩 (Wednesday)

Thank you for your Reply.

[Lizbie1]

I haven't looked into it but it could be that the "outliers" are related to the years when ACE's multi-year funding announcements fall.