Royal Ballet 2023/24 Season - predictions/wishes

[Blossom]

3 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Yes being in the studio for that one was very memorable....Makarova coaching Takada and Naghdi. At the end Akane threw a knife at Yasmine...perhaps taking her part too seriously! 🤣

Yes remember this! They both got worked really hard too!

[Fonty]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong with the Bronze Idol in La Bayadere?

 

 

[Benjamin]

20 minutes ago, Fonty said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong with the Bronze Idol in La Bayadere?

 

 

To be honest I don’t know but I believe that The High Jumps and finger movements could be racist (not that I have asked an Indian)

[Sim]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

To be honest I don’t know but I believe that The High Jumps and finger movements could be racist (not that I have asked an Indian)

These days anything can be racist or offensive. It’s getting ridiculous.  During the last run of Bayadere an older Hindu lady and her daughter were sitting in front of me.  I was standing and when they were leaving they were smiling broadly.  The older lady smiled at me so I smiled back and asked if they had enjoyed it.  They both loved it and said how great it was to see a classical ballet portraying part of their culture.  So no offence taken there…she had a positive approach.  I am sure she would be very disappointed now with people being “offended” on her behalf.  

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Benjamin said:

I completely agree, I’m glad they change a bit of the nutcracker, choreography which was made by Russian interpretations of other countries is so stupid to me. La Bayadere isn’t any better but If they cut Bronze idol and made the production a better Indian representation of India Then I think it would be fine. I won’t even get into Turnadot. I haven’t seen Maddaddam and won’t see it but from what I’ve heard it’s pretty bad but Isn’t that the Margret Aatwood Style? Because it’s “MoDeRn DaNcE” it should be more appropriate to keep up with todays culture. They can’t change anything because the choreographers still alive. Manon made me a bit uncomfortable but Mayerling Should be banned, It’s wildly horrific. 

What would a better representation of India be in the context of a 200 year-old piece of fiction?

[balletfanatic]

1 hour ago, Benjamin said:

I completely agree, I’m glad they change a bit of the nutcracker, choreography which was made by Russian interpretations of other countries is so stupid to me. La Bayadere isn’t any better but If they cut Bronze idol and made the production a better Indian representation of India Then I think it would be fine. I won’t even get into Turnadot. I haven’t seen Maddaddam and won’t see it but from what I’ve heard it’s pretty bad but Isn’t that the Margret Aatwood Style? Because it’s “MoDeRn DaNcE” it should be more appropriate to keep up with todays culture. They can’t change anything because the choreographers still alive. Manon made me a bit uncomfortable but Mayerling Should be banned, It’s wildly horrific. 

I love Mayerling - nothing should ever be banned. You don't have to see it again if you don't like it but why stop other people enjoying it

[Bruce Wall]

2 hours ago, Benjamin said:

I completely agree, I’m glad they change a bit of the nutcracker, choreography which was made by Russian interpretations of other countries is so stupid to me. La Bayadere isn’t any better but If they cut Bronze idol and made the production a better Indian representation of India Then I think it would be fine. I won’t even get into Turnadot. I haven’t seen Maddaddam and won’t see it but from what I’ve heard it’s pretty bad but Isn’t that the Margret Aatwood Style? Because it’s “MoDeRn DaNcE” it should be more appropriate to keep up with todays culture. They can’t change anything because the choreographers still alive. Manon made me a bit uncomfortable but Mayerling Should be banned, It’s wildly horrific. 

 

Methinks, Benjamin, you'd have an absolutely 'horrific' field day should you ever see Scarlett's 'Sweet Violets' or 'Hansel and Gretel'.  Both were built in the 'late McMillan' tradition.  Heaven forefend that you should ever reach unto the latter Master's 'Judas Tree'.  I sometimes wonder - and it may just be me - if other core Royal choreographers don't sometimes feel pressured by Lady M's seeming dominance at that address into more extreme corners as those - it would appear - are, what have come to sell there in the name of 'modern art'.  It is, of course, blessedly different elsewhere.  Variety is, as is oft mentioned hereabouts, the SPICE of LIFE.  
 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Bruce Wall

[bangorballetboy]

Just now, Bruce Wall said:

 

Methinks, Benjamin, you'd have an absolutely 'horrific' field day should you ever see Scarlett's 'Sweet Violets' or 'Hansel and Gretel'.  

 

I'd like to see Sweet Violets again.  It's one of those pieces that needs some homework but works well once one understands the different characters (a bit like Mayerling in that respect?).

[Sim]

15 minutes ago, balletfanatic said:

I love Mayerling - nothing should ever be banned. You don't have to see it again if you don't like it but why stop other people enjoying it

Exactly. If anyone is offended by anything no-one is making them go to see it.  But don’t take away the freedom of choice from the rest of us.  For example, from the clips I have seen, A Clockwork Orange looks like one of the most appalling things ever committed to film. I have therefore chosen never to sit through it.  However, it has never occurred to me to suggest that others shouldn’t be able to see it if they so choose.  I don’t know why anyone would choose it, but to each their own.  

[Richard LH]

22 minutes ago, balletfanatic said:

I love Mayerling - nothing should ever be banned. You don't have to see it again if you don't like it but why stop other people enjoying it

I think is possible to imagine productions that should/would  be banned for illegality but of course Mayerling comes nowhere close to this, simply for the sins of being (IMO) distasteful and depressing. Anyway ( back on topic) it won't be performed next season.

[Benjamin]

51 minutes ago, Sim said:

These days anything can be racist or offensive. It’s getting ridiculous.  During the last run of Bayadere an older Hindu lady and her daughter were sitting in front of me.  I was standing and when they were leaving they were smiling broadly.  The older lady smiled at me so I smiled back and asked if they had enjoyed it.  They both loved it and said how great it was to see a classical ballet portraying part of their culture.  So no offence taken there…she had a positive approach.  I am sure she would be very disappointed now with people being “offended” on her behalf.  

I’m please to hear, I feel most People that have their culture featured in La Bayadere would be okay with it, But we can assume It’s the Royal Ballet executives that think this is inappropriate, not properly representing the culture and possibly racist. They should get a Cultural Consultant as a permanent position at the Royal Opera House.

[alison]

I suspect it may only be one or two people leading the objections to Bayadère - I've certainly not seen any indications of anything more widespread.

[Benjamin]

44 minutes ago, balletfanatic said:

I love Mayerling - nothing should ever be banned. You don't have to see it again if you don't like it but why stop other people enjoying it

Ok maybe I’m over exaggerating, but I think it should be toned down, Strongly warned.

[Benjamin]

Just now, alison said:

I suspect it may only be one or two people leading the objections to Bayadère - I've certainly not seen any indications of anything more widespread.

I hope so, It’s a Russian Classic and a staple of the ballet repertoire. They can’t really not perform it.

[Benjamin]

15 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

I think is possible to imagine productions that should/would  be banned for illegality but of course Mayerling comes nowhere close to this, simply for the sins of being (IMO) distasteful and depressing. Anyway ( back on topic) it won't be performed next season.

That’s fair, It’s not that bad all things considered but it’s definitely not good, I’m glad we are past it on the MacMillan rotation. (Until approximately 2025/26

[balletfanatic]

1 minute ago, Benjamin said:

That’s fair, It’s not that bad all things considered but it’s definitely not good, I’m glad we are past it on the MacMillan rotation. (Until approximately 2025/26

I love it because it's dramatic and its representing a real life story. Real life can be depressing and distasteful. Otherwise why not just show one fairy tale after the next. Art and culture are meant to make us think and react. We are adults and should be able to handle it imo

[Sim]

2 minutes ago, balletfanatic said:

I love it because it's dramatic and its representing a real life story. Real life can be depressing and distasteful. Otherwise why not just show one fairy tale after the next. Art and culture are meant to make us think and react. We are adults and should be able to handle it imo

Absolutely.  And if you can’t handle it, don’t go.  I can’t handle certain things, so I don’t go.  But if others want to, that’s entirely their choice.  

[Benjamin]

52 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said:

 

Methinks, Benjamin, you'd have an absolutely 'horrific' field day should you ever see Scarlett's 'Sweet Violets' or 'Hansel and Gretel'.  Both were built in the 'late McMillan' tradition.  Heaven forefend that you should ever reach unto the latter Master's 'Judas Tree'.  I sometimes wonder - and it may just be me - if other core Royal choreographers don't sometimes feel pressured by Lady M's seeming dominance at that address into more extreme corners as those - it would appear - are, what have come to sell there in the name of 'modern art'.  It is, of course, blessedly different elsewhere.  Variety is, as is oft mentioned hereabouts, the SPICE of LIFE.  
 

I have had the opportunity to watch Judas Tree and turned it down, will never know if Carlos, Leanne where  good in it (I asumme they were)

 

I see that these works are a rarity but even though I (and some others) most likely dislike them they should still be programmed.

[Pas de Quatre]

21 hours ago, Beryl H said:

I would like to see more mixed triple bills, not 3 ballets by the same choreographer, Apollo and Daphnis and Chloe spring to mind.

Some years ago Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra tried some concerts featuring one of the great composers in each one. It didn't work. Even Beethoven becomes indigestible if it is his works for the whole evening. They reverted to normal programming for the following season. Constructing a balanced programme of works for a concert is an art. I wish more could be done programming ballet triple bills that are interesting and not just thrown together.

[Benjamin]

4 minutes ago, balletfanatic said:

I love it because it's dramatic and its representing a real life story. Real life can be depressing and distasteful. Otherwise why not just show one fairy tale after the next. Art and culture are meant to make us think and react. We are adults and should be able to handle it imo

I’m glad that these ballets depict real situations unlike your sleeping beauty, and real situations aren’t filtered, I admire them from afar. Thank you for your insight.

[Guest oncnp]

18 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Ok maybe I’m over exaggerating, but I think it should be toned down, Strongly warned.

It was 

GUIDANCE

Suitable for ages 14+

This production contains depictions of drug use, sexual violence and suicide. There are gunshots in each act.

Edited April 4, 2023 by oncnp

[Benjamin]

Just now, oncnp said:

It was 

 

GUIDANCE

Suitable for ages 14+

This production contains depictions of drug use, sexual violence and suicide. There are gunshots in each act.

That’s More like it, I’m not great at reading websites then option 1, or option none! Thank you for sharing this!

[Benjamin]

2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

Yes being in the studio for that one was very memorable....Makarova coaching Takada and Naghdi. At the end Akane threw a knife at Yasmine...perhaps taking her part too seriously! 🤣

Now that’s really getting into character, Akane is an amazing dancer and actress.

[Benjamin]

Thank you all for making this thread be called “HOT!”

[zxDaveM]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

Exactly. If anyone is offended by anything no-one is making them go to see it.  But don’t take away the freedom of choice from the rest of us.  For example, from the clips I have seen, A Clockwork Orange looks like one of the most appalling things ever committed to film. I have therefore chosen never to sit through it.  However, it has never occurred to me to suggest that others shouldn’t be able to see it if they so choose.  I don’t know why anyone would choose it, but to each their own.  

 

A Clockwork Orange had a lot of things to say about the way society was heading at the time the book was written (hopefully headed off for now), and seeing the whole film put those horror sections into their place. Film clips always accentuated and sensationalised the appalling aspect (and there are a lot worse in many films out there sadly). Anthony Burgess wanted Kubrick's film banned because of the copycat violence it spawned (and the way thugs in the real world copied the stylised costumes etc). It is a tough watch, but not as bad as the clips imply; but the horror of the thugs 'ultra-violence' almost pales compared to the horror inflicted upon them by 'the state'. Saying all that though, not watching it is perfectly valid of course

 

There are now a good few of MacMillan's 'rapey' works that if they occur in a triple bill, I'll be sitting out, as I've had enough of them ta very much. But I certainly wouldn't ban them, or stop other people seeing them ('enjoying' them would not be the term I'd use!). I suppose if they do shock/upset, one can do the same as me and not watch them again (even if my fave dancers are cast)

[zxDaveM]

53 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Some years ago Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra tried some concerts featuring one of the great composers in each one. It didn't work. Even Beethoven becomes indigestible if it is his works for the whole evening. They reverted to normal programming for the following season. Constructing a balanced programme of works for a concert is an art. I wish more could be done programming ballet triple bills that are interesting and not just thrown together.

 

There are choreographers whose works are so varied, you could possibly get away with it, selection being all. Generally speaking though, I'd agree with the sentiment. Getting a mixed bill to 'gel', whether themed or not, is indeed an art in itself

[Fonty]

I saw Clockwork Orange when it first came out, and thought it was brilliant.  What made it controversial was the slow motion scenes of violence, accompanied by classical music.  I saw it again recently, and it looks positively tame in comparison to the violence portrayed  in many modern films.

 

Incidentally, I believe it was only banned in the UK because Kubrick lived here.  He was being absolutely pilloried by the media, and his whole family were receiving death threats from various loonies, so he pulled it.  

[zxDaveM]

6 minutes ago, Fonty said:

I saw Clockwork Orange when it first came out, and thought it was brilliant.  What made it controversial was the slow motion scenes of violence, accompanied by classical music.  I saw it again recently, and it looks positively tame in comparison to the violence portrayed  in many modern films.

 

Incidentally, I believe it was only banned in the UK because Kubrick lived here.  He was being absolutely pilloried by the media, and his whole family were receiving death threats from various loonies, so he pulled it.  

 

oh - that's right, it was Kubrick, not Burgess that wanted it banned.

And as you say, compared to today, it is now pretty tame in comparison

[art_enthusiast]

1 hour ago, Benjamin said:

Now that’s really getting into character, Akane is an amazing dancer and actress.

Indeed.

So can they please bring this back and cast her!

[Jan McNulty]

11 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

 

oh - that's right, it was Kubrick, not Burgess that wanted it banned.

And as you say, compared to today, it is now pretty tame in comparison

 

I tried to read the book once - I think I managed about 8 pages before I gave up - I just didn't like the stylised English at all.

[capybara]

This thread has become quite depressing and, maybe, a bit of an insight into why this country is so quick to cave in on 'sensitive' issues in ballet where others (in Europe) have not.

 

 

 

[zxDaveM]

3 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I tried to read the book once - I think I managed about 8 pages before I gave up - I just didn't like the stylised English at all.

 

yes, you had to do a lot of back and forth to the translations of the terminology at the back of the book! I did eventually finish it, and perhaps would have gotten more out of it by rereading it with the terminology fresh in the mind

[Naomi M]

I really don’t want to say depressing things and I love La Bayadere, but I was interviewing one certain RB dancer a couple of months ago (I am a journalist) and she said RB won’t be doing La Bayadere without revising some of the production, as they are saying about complaints from the audience which was very sad for that dancer who was hoping to get a major role in this ballet that she also likes. (again!) What a pity..