Royal Ballet: Romeo and Juliet, Autumn 2021

[Fonty]

28 minutes ago, LinMM said:

I had a reply already! From Sandra. 
she said after consulting with the managers they advised her to tell me that my browser may have an automatic time adjustment on it if in a different time zone and to use a different browser. 
Highly ironic as I haven’t left the UK now for over five years ( unfortunately) so certainly nothing to do with my browser! 
However it did occur to me that perhaps whoever sent the info out to my Events Page may have been in a different time zone at the time lol!! 
I did order them in August and an hour ahead suggests European time 🌞🧳🩱🏊🧉👒🏖

Or could just be a glitch on the ROH computer who knows!! 

 

 

I would say that response comes under the heading of Utter Rubbish!

[bridiem]

49 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

There are so many ways to say “we haven’t got a clue as to what has happened!!!”!! 

 

Usually involving the suggestion that 'it must be something wrong at your end'.

[JNC]

A bit late but have been reading your comments about Wednesday’s performance with interest. 
 

I too was underwhelmed by Naghdi and Vadim and I couldn’t quite tell why, both danced well and with Naghdi especially I noted she really brought out a dramatic element to her acting. 
 

I think for me it probably comes down to the fact I perhaps don’t really connect with MacMillan’s choreography, particularly being stuck in the amphi it’s difficult to see faces and I find the pas de deux quite short proportionality to the other scenes to establish that connection between the main couple (compared to a ballet like Manon for example) - Juliet doesn’t even appear at all in Act 2! 
 

There were moments in Act 3 were Naghdi’s acting felt a little OTT and elicited some laughs from the audience rather than the tragedy which broke the spell a bit. I have to say I love Naghdi in pretty much everything else I’ve seen her in and she danced brilliantly but I missed an emotional connection. I felt similarly about Vadim, I wasn’t ‘wowed’ by his dancing and felt they were lacking chemistry and a deep bond as a pair. 
 

I fear I may be being overly critical as R&J isn’t my favourite ballet and despite how much I try I always struggle to resonate with it emotionally the way others do. But hopefully some critical comments are welcome rather than always praise. Clearly I’m in the minority here and I admit I felt out of practice watching a full length ballet so struggled to hold my attention.

 

Despite the lack of chemistry on this occasion I would like to see Yasmin and Vadim paired more often - I think I recall I saw them paired for the le Corsaire pas de deux at the Fonteyn Gala and that was show stopping, so if they did something more classical together I would be interested to see that. 
 

And I did think the orchestra in particular were better tonight than I’ve heard before (maybe I’m just missing a full house and live music?). And it was great to see a fully packed appreciative auditorium! 
 

I’m really sad I missed Kaneko and Bracewell and would definitely book to see them next time round. 

[RobR]

Oh dear, @JNCI’m afraid you missed the Act 2 wedding 😟

Edited October 16, 2021 by RobR

[JNC]

12 minutes ago, RobR said:

Oh dear, @JNCI’m afraid you missed the Act 2 wedding 😟

Oh yes quite right! I feel I don’t count this as there is little to no ‘dancing’! 

[Dawnstar]

26 minutes ago, JNC said:

There were moments in Act 3 were Naghdi’s acting felt a little OTT and elicited some laughs from the audience rather than the tragedy which broke the spell a bit.

 

Despite the lack of chemistry on this occasion I would like to see Yasmin and Vadim paired more often - I think I recall I saw them paired for the le Corsaire pas de deux at the Fonteyn Gala and that was show stopping, so if they did something more classical together I would be interested to see that.
 

I’m really sad I missed Kaneko and Bracewell and would definitely book to see them next time round. 

 

I winced at that. Surely everyone there knew the plot, whether or not they'd seen it in ballet form before. How on earth could they find anything in that scene amusing, knowing she'll be killing herself in about 20 minutes?

 

I agree with you there. Given they've only been paired once together this season (at least on casting so far) to be honest it felt a bit of a waste of their strengths that this was the one ballet. The Nutcracker on Swan Lake would surely have been a better fit for them as a pairing.

 

I saw Kaneko & Bracewell, after booking at the last minute, but I got it the wrong way round in terms of seats: in hindsight I should have bought a better seat for Kaneko/Bracewell & a less good seat for Naghdi/Muntagirov. It's so difficult to know in advance which pairing will work for oneself & therefore which to get the best seats for. I did redeem myself from the last R&J run's error by getting a better seat for Hayward/Corrales this time round.

 

There only seems to be the one review of Naghdi/Muntagirov, in yesterday's links, but I was reassured that the critic voiced similar reservations about their chemistry that some of us have said on here. As an inexperienced ballet viewer, I'm always glad when I find my opinions conincide with at least some critics' as I have no confidence in my own views being correct!

[JNC]

@Dawnstar I wouldn’t worry about your views being “correct” or not, either with critics or others on the forum! 
 

It’s all quite subjective based on your own personal experience and I wouldn’t ever think my opinion was wrong because critics or others didn’t agree to me. And likewise don’t feel others are wrong when they see things differently to me. 

 

I do give some leeway to others when they are likely to be able to spot technical elements better but when it comes to overall feelings on a performance or a particular dancer it’s interesting to have your own opinions!

[capybara]

I would not be concerned to post a view which is at variance with other people's and one of the good things about BCF is that its ethos enables that.

However, out of respect for the dancer(s),  I think I might hold back on here from making  comments which lean towards the negative more than just the once. 

[Dawnstar]

8 minutes ago, capybara said:

However, out of respect for the dancer(s),  I think I might hold back on here from making  comments which lean towards the negative more than just the once. 

 

Is this directed at me? I apologise if I have repeated myself. I was only trying to agree with some of @JNC's comments. I'm not sure why that would be disrespectful to the dancers: I hardly think they're going to be reading any of these comments, let alone care what a self-confessed complete amateur may think of any aspect of their performances.

[capybara]

1 minute ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Is this directed at me? I apologise if I have repeated myself. I was only trying to agree with some of @JNC's comments. I'm not sure why that would be disrespectful to the dancers: I hardly think they're going to be reading any of these comments, let alone care what a self-confessed complete amateur may think of any aspect of their performances.

 

A number of dancers do read BCF.

[Dawnstar]

I'm surprised they have the time, given how busy their schedules seem to be.

 

I am afraid it is too late for me to remove my last but one post, as it is over the hour, so if @capybaraor anyone else are annoyed by it and would like it to be removed then it will require intervention from the moderators.

[JNC]

20 minutes ago, capybara said:

I would not be concerned to post a view which is at variance with other people's and one of the good things about BCF is that its ethos enables that.

However, out of respect for the dancer(s),  I think I might hold back on here from making  comments which lean towards the negative more than just the once. 

If this is directed at me I hope I didn’t say anything could be perceived as hurtful to any dancer reading it - I’m aware this is a public forum and dancers can access and read same as anyone else. I would hate to think any dancer would be upset to read anything here.
 

I think it’s ok to say you didn’t feel a connection or give an opinion on a dancer’s performance as long as it doesn’t step into being rude and cruel. (For example about a dancer’s physical appearance or personality which isn’t fair.)

 

Dancers are humans too and they will have certain things that will resonate more with them than others so realistically they will know that not everyone who watches them performs will ‘get’ it and what they are trying to convey. 
 

I know there have been incidents were perhaps some comments have crossed the line and I feel mods (and other members) are very good at stepping in when this happens. 
 

And to give a ‘negative’ comment and say you didn’t feel an emotional connection (for example) doesn’t (or shouldn’t) imply the performance was ‘bad’ and that no one else would have felt that way. Some people will have thought very differently and been very touched - I wish I was one of those people but unfortunately on this occasion I wasn’t.

 

It can be difficult to give a ‘critical’ viewpoint that to one person is just a fair opinion and to someone else is being mean to a dancer. I’m not a professional critic but I always try to explain why I maybe thought or felt a certain way and always note my opinion is very much that - one person’s subjective viewpoint! 
 

Always happy to be challenged if people feel I (or someone else) hasn’t got the balance right. 

[Lizbie1]

Dawnstar, FWIW I think yours were fairly mild.

 

The comments I'm least comfortable with are those which compare one dancer's personal appearance unfavourably with another's. It doesn't happen often, thankfully, though I've seen it recently.

[RobR]

I’m afraid that I think that the Mods have a big enough job running the Forum (voluntarily) without having to police or edit posts. 
 

Two points. First, a good rule might be not to post any remark that you wouldn’t be prepared to say face to face to the person about whom the post is written. 
 

Second, where critical posts are posted, I would be interested to know something about the poster and what experience they have about the subject matter or person they’re criticising. 
 

 

[JennyTaylor]

I haven't been offended by anyone's comments. It's factual to say there was a laugh at one point (Act 3, I think).  I was right at the other side of the auditorium from the action where it happened, so couldn't comment more on the action, but it was more than one person, that's for sure.  

 

We all have differing opinions, that's what this Forum is all about.  Only when comments become personal does it become unacceptable. 

 

I see this at work all the time, where people are now worried about writing or saying anything critical with the upshot that all feedback is glowing.  We now call areas for development "even better ifs".  So, I would say about Vadim and Yasmine.  The dancing was excellent, but it would have been even better if I had seen an emotional connection between them. That's my personal view, and I have no problem if others did see that connection: indeed I'm delighted if they did. 

[Rob S]

I heard a flutter of laughing on two occasions during Act III and feel pretty confident that, unless it was coming from Mr Bravo, those responsible completely misunderstood Juliet’s movements and was nothing to do with Yasmine. 

[Guest oncnp]

1 hour ago, capybara said:

 

However, out of respect for the dancer(s),  I think I might hold back on here from making  comments which lean towards the negative more than just the once. 

 

Never mind - it'll just get me in more trouble. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by oncnp

[Richard LH]

33 minutes ago, Rob S said:

I heard a flutter of laughing on two occasions during Act III and feel pretty confident that, unless it was coming from Mr Bravo, those responsible completely misunderstood Juliet’s movements and was nothing to do with Yasmine. 

Is this where Juliet dives under the bed covers to hide from Paris? Because that might be seen as a potentially (and an intentionally) humorous moment that people respond to.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Richard LH

[Balletfanp]

2 hours ago, capybara said:

I would not be concerned to post a view which is at variance with other people's and one of the good things about BCF is that its ethos enables that.

However, out of respect for the dancer(s),  I think I might hold back on here from making  comments which lean towards the negative more than just the once. 

Just to say that I think Capybara’s comment may have been misinterpreted. I don’t think she was saying that anyone here has made any disrespectful comments - everyone is entitled to their opinion, after all - but that if that opinion is repeated in several posts it might be a bit much. That’s how I read it, anyway.

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Two points. First, a good rule might be not to post any remark that you wouldn’t be prepared to say face to face to the person about whom the post is written. 
 

Second, where critical posts are posted, I would be interested to know something about the poster and what experience they have about the subject matter or person they’re criticising. 

 

Such conditions would go far beyond the existing conditions/guidelines for membership of the forum, which seem to me to be perfectly adequate.

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

I’m afraid that I think that the Mods have a big enough job running the Forum (voluntarily) without having to police or edit posts. 
 

Two points. First, a good rule might be not to post any remark that you wouldn’t be prepared to say face to face to the person about whom the post is written. 
 

Second, where critical posts are posted, I would be interested to know something about the poster and what experience they have about the subject matter or person they’re criticising.

 

What are ordinary posters to do then if a post more than an hour old is objected to by another poster? I thought after an hour only a moderator could do anything to a post?

 

The problem I can see with that is then people's expressed critical response may depend on their personal relationship, or lack of, with the performers involved. It is possible to make critical comments to performers one is acquainted with that one would not make were one meeting a performer face to face for the first time.

 

I'd be happy to do this but I suspect everyone would get very bored with reading everyone else's potted bios repeatedly!

[RobR]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

I'm surprised they have the time, given how busy their schedules seem to be.

 

I am afraid it is too late for me to remove my last but one post, as it is over the hour, so if @capybaraor anyone else are annoyed by it and would like it to be removed then it will require intervention from the moderators.

I imagine most do have busy schedules but many of them will also have friends and family who access BF as visitors or members and can helpfully convey the content of such posts 

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

What are ordinary posters to do then if a post more than an hour old is objected to by another poster? I thought after an hour only a moderator could do anything to a post?

 

The problem I can see with that is then people's expressed critical response may depend on their personal relationship, or lack of, with the performers involved. It is possible to make critical comments to performers one is acquainted with that one would not make were one meeting a performer face to face for the first time.

 

I'd be happy to do this but I suspect everyone would get very bored with reading everyone else's potted bios repeatedly!

It’s always helpful to know if a poster has experience other than being an audience member, when reading a critique 

[Sim]

This forum welcomes all constructive comments, be they positive or negative, and not about how a performer looks (other than their technique and interpretation).  It’s fine to say someone looks handsome/beautiful onstage, but we don’t want to see comparisons.  
 

No opinion is right or wrong.  What makes this forum so interesting is reading all the different opinions and interpretations of the same performance or ballet.   How boring it would be if everyone thought the same way!

 

As far as credentials are concerned, the only ones posters on this forum need are a love of ballet and dance, and the guts to post up their thoughts and opinions, whatever they may be.  So please keep them coming!

[Lizbie1]

I don't think it's realistic to confine ourselves to what we'd say to someone who would be in most cases be a stranger. Such self-censorship would probably only result in some very anodyne public comments and furious activity in the DMs.

 

Maybe a better guideline would be not to take criticism beyond what you'd expect from a reviewer.

 

10 minutes ago, RobR said:

It’s always helpful to know if a poster has experience other than being an audience member, when reading a critique

 

Unless it's been made clear otherwise I always assume a poster is a simple audience member - though that category covers such a vast range of knowledge and experience, I'm not sure how helpful it is.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Lizbie1

[Dawnstar]

5 minutes ago, RobR said:

I imagine most do have busy schedules but many of them will also have friends and family who access BF as visitors or members and can helpfully convey the content of such posts 

 

I'm afraid my feeling is that if they choose to do that then either they ask the friends & family to filter out anything negative or they accept that there are likely to be some critical comments, because no performance is going to be perfect for every audience member.

 

1 minute ago, RobR said:

It’s always helpful to know if a poster has experience other than being an audience member, when reading a critique 

 

Well, if it's any help to you I certainly have no other experience. As I said in my post in reply to JNC further up this page, I am an inexperienced ballet viewer. I have only been seeing the Royal Ballet live since autumn 2018, having previously only attended the ROH for opera performances. If anyone wants me to append this info onto any possibly critical post I make then I'm happy to do so but I suspect most people would find it a bit tedious!

[JNC]

I think the recent comments sum up a lot of my thoughts. 

 

I don't need to know anyone's background in order to find their comments interesting on an individual audience member level and a peer who appreciates ballet. If people want to share particular experience/expertise they might have (if they are for example a ballet teacher or someone who used to dance) to detail technique I always welcome this insight. I also enjoy reading posts from those who have a wealth of knowledge and history about various choreographers and their works as well as the history of ballet as I find it all fascinating.  

 

I like this forum as we are all treated equally and all opinions are valid - whether you have been watching ballet for 50 years or whether last night was the first time you watched ballet and you are excited to share your thoughts. Otherwise the only thing we would read would be the professional critics' opinions! 

 

12 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

I don't think it's realistic to confine ourselves to what we'd say to someone who would be in most cases a stranger. Such self-censorship would probably only result in some very anodyne public comments and furious activity in the DMs.

 

Maybe a better guideline would be not to take criticism beyond what you'd expect from a reviewer.

 

If I ever was lucky enough to meet a dancer I would want to focus on all the wonderful performances and happiness they had given, rather than one particular performance that may not have resonated with me. That doesn't mean my 'negative' criticism is invalid and or rude/unfair, rather that this forum is a place where we feel able to share diverging opinions which aren't always positive praise. 

 

We don't all need to agree with each other and only give positive feedback. Neither should we ask people to provide and validate their experience/opinion - the only purpose for this would be I fear to devalue some (members') opinions and create an elitist system. If you don't agree with someone you can either say nothing or (politely) engage in a conversation about it. That's why this is a discussion forum. 

 

I look forward to reading more interesting comments and reviews! 

[Sim]

17 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I'm afraid my feeling is that if they choose to do that then either they ask the friends & family to filter out anything negative or they accept that there are likely to be some critical comments, because no performance is going to be perfect for every audience member.

 

 

Well, if it's any help to you I certainly have no other experience. As I said in my post in reply to JNC further up this page, I am an inexperienced ballet viewer. I have only been seeing the Royal Ballet live since autumn 2018, having previously only attended the ROH for opera performances. If anyone wants me to append this info onto any possibly critical post I make then I'm happy to do so but I suspect most people would find it a bit tedious!

That won’t be necessary Dawnstar.  You post your opinions clearly and they are always welcome and interesting.  As I said above, this is a forum for ballet and dance lovers who want to share their love with others who feel the same way.   Those with professional credentials have the press to air their thoughts…the rest of us have this forum (and others)!  

[alison]

56 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Is this where Juliet dives under the bed covers to hide from Paris? Because that might be seen as a potentially (and an intentionally) humorous moment that people respond to.

 

It does seem to have become that way in recent years, although I don't remember it ever being like that when I first started watching the ballet.  It also depends very much on the context: there have been a number of performances where I don't think anyone would have considered laughing.  But I don't think it's ever been intentionally humorous.

[Dawnstar]

Thank you @Sim. Though I do sometimes wonder if I should append "autistic" to all my posts, as sometimes it means I look at things differently to normal people & can get into misunderstandings.

[Lizbie1]

3 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Thank you @Sim. Though I do sometimes wonder if I should append "autistic" to all my posts, as sometimes it means I look at things differently to normal people & can get into misunderstandings.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I agree that knowing someone is autistic makes you process their words and actions differently. (Once you're in the habit of it - my nephew is autistic, so I've had plenty of practice! - it comes very naturally.)

[Sim]

10 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

Thank you @Sim. Though I do sometimes wonder if I should append "autistic" to all my posts, as sometimes it means I look at things differently to normal people & can get into misunderstandings.

You should absolutely not do that, Dawnstar.  Your opinions are as valid, interesting and clearly put as everyone else’s.  If you see things differently from others, so much the better!  
 

And the term ‘normal’ is very subjective!  😉

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

Is this where Juliet dives under the bed covers to hide from Paris? Because that might be seen as a potentially (and an intentionally) humorous moment that people respond to.

That often happens and it did with Yasmine too but that isn’t the occasion I meant, it was during the pdd when Juliet is ‘dead’