Lizbie1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Talk on another thread about the difficulty of managing the RB's repertoire prompts me to wonder what I'd be content to see go - not necessarily because I don't like the piece, but because I don't think there's room for everything and so prioritisation is required. (Equally there are ballets I have no interest in seeing that probably should remain in the repertoire - one ballet I would retain, though I'm not a fan, is Alice, as it's native to the RB and seems to be very popular with children.) My main concern, apart from making the general public happy and keeping standards up, would be to retain the RB's distinctive character. I understand the point about wanting to see certain dancers in certain roles, but I like to think of the other parts there would now be room for them to take on For example, off the top of my head I'd be OK with dropping: Don Quixote and Bayadere (not really part of the RB "story"" and I think the Russians do them better anyway) Anastasia (but retain the Kschessinska pdd as a party piece) Jewels (this is borderline for me, but I'd sacrifice it to see more of the one-act Balanchines) Onegin (nobody said this was an easy job! I'd want to replace it with some RB/SWRB Cranko including Pineapple Poll and the Lady and the Fool) The Judas Tree Marguerite and Armand NB I'm talking about ballets which have had more than two runs, as I don't think it can be said to be in the repertoire until the third go round. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveclassics Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I'd add all McGregor - there are other companies in the UK that do contemporary works as well as (if not better) than the RB. I take the point about Jewels but I'd keep the Rubies section, perhaps as part of a mixed bill with other Balanchine 1-acters. And can we please have a break from Nutcracker for at least one season? I'd much rather see Ashton's Cinderella brought back though perhaps with a re-design. Linda 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Goodness - head above the parapet on this thread. Onegin and the 3 Act Anastasia have given me some of the most memorable performances in recent years and I'd be aghast at the prospect of losing them from the repertoire, particularly given the quality of the Royal Ballet. Putting to one side ballets which have not yet been revived, in looking back over the last few years I think I've only found three ballets which I'd choose not to see again - Untouchables, Strapless and Carbon Life. I'm not sure if Isadora is already culled as it's many years since I saw it but if it were revived I doubt very much if I'd be going to it. But there's a serious point to keeping the repertoire fresh, which is doing justice to the Royal Ballet's history and traditions and commissioning new work, whilst meeting financial targets. I think the Royal Ballet has the balance about right although I do wonder if there are too many Nutcrackers. I'd contrast the Royal Ballet with the Opera where I think there has been a tendency to put on far too many Toscas, Bohemes, Traviatas, Turandots etc with multiple casts jetting in and out and some pretty variable performances. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) I think what is needed ( if money were no object!) Is something like the reserve collected in a museum. Personally, I'd ditch the de Valois ballets, much of McGregor, Strapless, Sweet Violets, The Wind, the most recent Twyla Tharp for starters, although obviously records should be available for anyone interested in seeing them. And as to dumping Onegin -never never never! When I look at the list of ballets I've seen there are many that have vanished peacefully and thankfully, but it's very much a case of one man's meat. Edited July 29, 2018 by ninamargaret 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 The above should have been on the What would you cull thread, but I've no idea how to move it. Perhaps a kind moderator could help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyTaylor Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I'm glad someone else said - All McGregor - before I did... and I really have tried, but to no avail. This is the no 1 reason why I don't attend many Triple Bills, which means I miss out on some other gems, but I really can't bear it. I agree about too many Nutcrackers, though I love it, but it goes on for too long. I think Cinderella needs a complete rewrite whilst retaining the Ashton gems within it: ie. the Cinderella / Prince, it's the Ugly Sisters who are the problem - men in drag these days, probably not so funny any more - discuss. Perhaps Liam Scarlett's next project?? The music is lovely and there are some really magical bits. If the premise is to retain the RB's heritage, then we could also add some lost MacMillan / Ashton but I don't think that's the question. I'd be gutted it they dropped Onegin and I think you could argue a MacMillan/ Cranko link there to retain it, and I also love Bayadere and DonQ sheerly for the dancing alone. I'm wondering if heritage includes BRB productions. I see little synergy between London and Birmingham and feel that London missed out of some the BRB productions which we just don't see at all. Isn't this heritage too? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, JennyTaylor said: I'm glad someone else said - All McGregor - before I did... and I really have tried, but to no avail. This is the no 1 reason why I don't attend many Triple Bills, which means I miss out on some other gems, but I really can't bear it. I agree about too many Nutcrackers, though I love it, but it goes on for too long. I think Cinderella needs a complete rewrite whilst retaining the Ashton gems within it: ie. the Cinderella / Prince, it's the Ugly Sisters who are the problem - men in drag these days, probably not so funny any more - discuss. Perhaps Liam Scarlett's next project?? The music is lovely and there are some really magical bits. If the premise is to retain the RB's heritage, then we could also add some lost MacMillan / Ashton but I don't think that's the question. I'd be gutted it they dropped Onegin and I think you could argue a MacMillan/ Cranko link there to retain it, and I also love Bayadere and DonQ sheerly for the dancing alone. I'm wondering if heritage includes BRB productions. I see little synergy between London and Birmingham and feel that London missed out of some the BRB productions which we just don't see at all. Isn't this heritage too? Cinderella is an interesting topic Drag is Drag it's performance ... the bad press that drag has got of late is not per se to do with drag Chase Johnsey;s sagas with the Trocks is not aobut Drag it;s aobut the tTocks clinging to a view of drag ... the criticism of Drag acts at some ofthe Prides has been becasue the act while the 'humour' might go down well in a male gay bar , doesn;t go down well with a mixed LGBTQ+ and allies audience as you find enjoyign the carnival atmosphere that many prides have had of late ( when not being invaded by various fringe factions ) there are various version around , Northern have a Nixon /Feeney version in their current Repetoire which is getting an airing this winter , there's also a Gable / Feeney version ( different score ) which Northern don;t currently perform and hasn't from what i can find out been performed in full for quite a while although Ballet Central do use execerpts ... the Nixon version plays the step sisters straight with female dancers ... Ballet Ireland have a Cinderella with choreography by Morgann Runacre-Temple ( interestingly another Central alumnus) which appears to have the step sisters as drag ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 But aren't the Ugly Sisters part of the long tradition of Pantomime Dames? I always thought that when Ashton's Cinderella was first produced the feeling was more like seeing your school Headmaster and a teacher dressed up for the end of term Christmas show! If you look at old films the humour has more feeling and there is also definite pathos. Today's Ugly Sisters too often just go over the top! 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josephine Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, JennyTaylor said: I think Cinderella needs a complete rewrite whilst retaining the Ashton gems within it: ie. the Cinderella / Prince, it's the Ugly Sisters who are the problem - men in drag these days, probably not so funny any more - discuss. Perhaps Liam Scarlett's next project?? The music is lovely and there are some really magical bits. I'd be interested to know if you see Ashton's choreography for the Step-sisters as the problem, or just the fact that these roles are usually performed by men? I believe that the Step-sisters were performed by women occasionally in the early days of the production. Should this practice be revived whilst keeping Ashton's choreography intact? In men in drag are seen as the 'problem', then should Ashton's Widow Simone also be rewritten? Or Mrs Tiggy Winkle?!! Aside from Royal Ballet heritage I support the retention of (most of) Ashton's use of roles en travesti as I love the sense of it being a living link with British theatre/music hall performance history. I do hope that the Royal Ballet will revive Cinderella very soon. Likewise Onegin. I'm horrified by the idea of losing this from RB's repertoire!! Edited July 30, 2018 by Josephine 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LH Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Josephine said: I do hope that the Royal Ballet will revive Cinderella very soon. There is also the Wheeldon version as an option. I recently watched the recording of The Dutch National Ballet producion with Anna Tsygankova/Matthew Golding - I liked her, not so much him. Some very beautiful and inventive parts, but I thought some other parts (some of the "humourous" pieces) don't work so well and could be cut. I think the main issue I have with various Cinderellas is the discordant Prokofiev score. Recalling Matthew Bourme's version doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Josephine said: I'd be interested to know if you see Ashton's choreography for the Step-sisters as the problem, or just the fact that these roles are usually performed by men? I believe that the Step-sisters were performed by women occasionally in the early days of the production. Should this practice be revived whilst keeping Ashton's choreography intact? In men in drag are seen as the 'problem', then should Ashton's Widow Simone also be rewritten? Or Mrs Tiggy Winkle?!! Aside from Royal Ballet heritage I support the retention of (most of) Ashton's use of roles en travesti as I love the sense of it being a living link with British theatre/music hall performance history. I do hope that the Royal Ballet will revive Cinderella very soon. Likewise Onegin. I'm horrified by the idea of losing this from RB's repertoire!! You've beautifully articulated what I was going to try and say Jo. Thank you! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Richard LH said: There is also the Wheeldon version as an option. I recently watched the recording of The Dutch National Ballet producion with Anna Tsygankova/Matthew Golding - I liked her, not so much him. Some very beautiful and inventive parts, but I thought some other parts (some of the "humourous" pieces) don't work so well and could be cut. I think the main issue I have with various Cinderellas is the discordant Prokofiev score. Recalling Matthew Bourme's version doesn't help either. Except ENB are about to about to stage a version of the Wheeldon, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I love Cinderella the Ballet and the score. I never particularly liked the David Walker sets, and the latest version is no improvement. And I never ever found the Ugly Sisters shtick that amusing. But the rest of the Ashton is sublime...but balletic comedy is deadly. I’m looking forward to seeing the Nureyev with POB, and the Wheeldon with DNB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Vanartus said: But the rest of the Ashton is sublime...but balletic comedy is deadly. Interesting thought: do the RB actually need to start doing more comedy before Cinderella is brought back into the rep, to get their hand back in, so to speak? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Perhaps not what you had in mind Alison but there is The Concert in the Winter booking period - certainly appeals to my sense of humour. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 The Concert is funny - but ...funnily enough....I don’t find it as funny as I used to. Funny that... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthE Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, Vanartus said: The Concert is funny - but ...funnily enough....I don’t find it as funny as I used to. Funny that... In my experience, most things get less funny once none of the jokes are surprises any more! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_New Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) 'I'd be gutted if they dropped Onegin and I think you could argue a MacMillan/ Cranko link there to retain it' (Jenny) I'd be gutted too, and the RB do it so well! I'd be happy to drop most of McGregor, too. Edited July 30, 2018 by J_New Spelling mistake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, RuthE said: In my experience, most things get less funny once none of the jokes are surprises any more! Even if familiar there is the element of timing and the infectiousness of the audience - which was certainly very much in evidence last time I saw The Concert. Some jokes I've heard many times I still find very funny. It's always good to have a favourite joke to hand, in part because this can really catch people out in interviews - I can't imagine some politicians being able to offer their joke if asked, after all some desperately struggle simply to say how they relax. My favourite joke - 'What's the fastest cake in the world? Scone.' 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamk Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Anything choreographed by Alastair Marriott Acosta's Don Q, Carmen MacMillan's The Judas Tree, Anastasia Scarlett's Frankenstein, Hansel & Gretel, Sweet Violets, Age of Anxiety Pita's The Wind Dawson's Human Seasons McGregor's Multiverse Wheeldon's Strapless, Raven Girl 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 14 hours ago, ninamargaret said: The above should have been on the What would you cull thread, but I've no idea how to move it. Perhaps a kind moderator could help Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, alison said: Done Thank you Alison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Re Cinderella. I saw the version with the Ugly Sisters danced by women in 1958. If memory serves me right it worked well although I think it was performed by two dancers who had also had experience of working in musical theatre rather than members of the Royal Ballet. But generally, I would hate to lose roles like Simone - the panto dame is a very old tradition and shouldn't be lost because of political correctness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 It's not so much about political correctness but appropriate kindness. Widow Simone works because she's ultimately a good egg. Problem with the sisters is a) the term "ugly" and b) the fact the fact that the period costumes plus the choreography aren't the strongest mix in the Ashton ballet. Ultimately they're lonely and unhappy and spoilt and etc etc but there is redemption at the end. But it's hard to make it work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 ...in pure dance terms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, annamk said: Wheeldon's Strapless, Raven Girl I don't think it will make a difference to your 'cull' annamk know but Raven Girl is a McGregor ballet (which I really enjoyed last time). More generally I do think it's vital that the Royal Ballet nurtures new ballets as it has done through much of its history and is not a museum. MacMillan is now very much part of its heritage. I'm not sure what McGregor/Scarlett will be performed in 20 years or so but I'd have thought that some would become an important part of the developing heritage - Wolf Works, Obsidian Tear? I for one will be very interested to see the revived Frankenstein and what changes Scarlett might make as I was taken with much of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanartus Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Oh - and I am now in "hands off my Wayne" mode. Woolf Works a masterpiece! Chroma, Infra, the new Bernstein, Obsidian, Livefire...and the pdd from Raven Girl : ALL WONDERFUL!!! Edited July 30, 2018 by Vanartus Typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, Vanartus said: Oh - and I am now in "hands off my Wayne" mode. Woolf Works a masterpiece! Chroma, Infra, the new Bernstein, Obsidian, Livefire...and the pdd from Raven Girl : ALL WONDERFUL!!! Tend to agree,with you about those you have mentioned but would happily ditch Multiverse,Tetractys and probably,others. I don't think there is a choreographer whose entire output should be kept; having said that, I wonder how many ballet goers can claim to have seen every ballet by a specific choreographer? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, annamk said: Anything choreographed by Alastair Marriott Acosta's Don Q, Carmen MacMillan's The Judas Tree, Anastasia Scarlett's Frankenstein, Hansel & Gretel, Sweet Violets, Age of Anxiety Pita's The Wind Dawson's Human Seasons McGregor's Multiverse Wheeldon's Strapless, Raven Girl Raven Girl was McGregor, but otherwise agree with most of this list - though I don't mind Alastair's work (I really liked the last one he did), and did quite like Human Seasons. Don Q was quite fun - but if I never saw it again I wouldn't cry over it; same for Frankenstein I'd stick up for a lot of McGregor's work - notably Infra, Woolf Works and Chroma - but Multiverse was shockingly horrid I'd happily cull a good many of MacMillan's one act pieces (especially Judas Tree) such as Las Harmanas, The Invitation and the like. I'm much happier watching the likes of Gloria, Requiem, Song of the Earth, Rite of Spring or Concerto I hope they never do the clown one with the wailing woman in the pit (name escapes) or most of Glenn Tetley's come to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxDaveM Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 45 minutes ago, Vanartus said: It's not so much about political correctness but appropriate kindness. Widow Simone works because she's ultimately a good egg. Problem with the sisters is a) the term "ugly" and b) the fact the fact that the period costumes plus the choreography aren't the strongest mix in the Ashton ballet. Ultimately they're lonely and unhappy and spoilt and etc etc but there is redemption at the end. But it's hard to make it work. I think they'd work better as women with less ghastly costumes and makeup, and with less gallumping choreography 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annamk Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 minute ago, zxDaveM said: Raven Girl was McGregor, but otherwise agree with most of this list - though I don't mind Alastair's work (I really liked the last one he did), and did quite like Human Seasons. Don Q was quite fun - but if I never saw it again I wouldn't cry over it; same for Frankenstein I'd stick up for a lot of McGregor's work - notably Infra, Woolf Works and Chroma - but Multiverse was shockingly horrid I'd happily cull a good many of MacMillan's one act pieces (especially Judas Tree) such as Las Harmanas, The Invitation and the like. I'm much happier watching the likes of Gloria, Requiem, Song of the Earth, Rite of Spring or Concerto I hope they never do the clown one with the wailing woman in the pit (name escapes) or most of Glenn Tetley's come to that Yes silly me I don't why I thought it was Wheeldon duh ! I like Don Q but Acosta's version and the RB style don't work for me. I agree re other McGregor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I was pleased to see at least one contributor to this thread say "step-sisters", not "ugly sisters". The former is correct, as per the original dramatis personae and programme note. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trog Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 14 hours ago, JennyTaylor said: men in drag these days, probably not so funny any more - discuss The Trocks are very funny - always have been, always will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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