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Is it really still potential? (Royal Ballet School 2021 intake)


Momapalooza

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After months of reading threads on this forum, especially during the lockdown months, I thought it was time to sign up so I can join the conversations . My DC is considering going through the whole audition madness next year, with applications I assume starting later this year, and I have so many burning questions since starting reading the posts on here and being exposed to social media.

 

My question is basically the title.  With 3 young ones, we have a very social media savvy fam and my teenage DCs are all exposed to social media although they themselves aren't active on it and are loathe to post and hate having their photos taken for mum to post on hers despite my account being private.  And so we have all seen Instagram posts of vocational schools acceptances over the last few weeks, mostly from the same DCs who actively post on their Instagram.  I remember years ago, during my teen DCs time (year 10) vocational schools used to stress that they offer places mostly based on facility, physique and...potential.  However, as I see the same kids offered places this year being posted by 2-3 different dance schools, by multiple private lesson teachers, and the same kids who post quite a lot about their training, I am really hesitant to even let DC try.  So much so one can easily guess that some if not most of them probably train more hours that current full time students!  I am also aware that some get training on the side and keeping it from their usual schools/teachers (god knows the sorts of trouble/drama this can get them into when teachers find out).  By the time these kids go full time in September, they will probably be cutting down the hours they train compared to the hours they have been doing the last couple or so years.

 

Obviously no disrespect to these determined, hardworking and beautiful kids who rightly deserve their places but I do wonder what chance a little boy or girl whose family cannot fund such extensive training pre-auditions but who has big dreams and dare I say it, massive potential, has?  I know some associates have funding for talented kids who need it, but what if their families cannot afford multiple privates a week, or to train in more than one school, take classes every day, apply for various intensives?  Back in my older DCs time, a lot of the kids who got in attended one associates and did maybe 2 graded classes a week, maybe a private a week the month leading up to auditions.  Back then, I still believed that it was potential.  These days, I think kids with simply potential can easily be overlooked when in a group with amazingly polished young dancers.

 

It looks like there is a move slowly and surely to places being offered to kids who already look like they're the "finished product" - or as finished as someone can be at 10/11 years old.  There is now an astounding choice of pre-vocational programmes/associates catering for this, the norm is now for a DC to attend 2, 3, even 4 associates.  Looking at the years 4 and 5 there are already kids who are intensely preparing for associates and auditions with still a year or 2 to go.  Where do they find the time to be kids?  Whilst social media posts are taken as a snapshot in time, it would appear they spend a lot of time in photo shoots, being ambassadors and training so many hours which surely cannot be good for such young bodies in the long run?  I am curious to see how this trend plays out and whether this will improve the statistics of kids completing all 5 years in a lower school, going on to upper schools and getting jobs in companies.  How do these kids cope once they start full time?  To keep up with their intensive training from before they start full time, and with the desire to stay there the whole way, I would say they would be tempted to still have private lessons on the side whenever they can despite vocational schools frowning on this.  I personally think this defeats the purpose of going full time.

 

Sorry for the long post but I guess it is just me typing away my thought of the last few weeks and trying to convince myself that it is okay to let my DC enter this whole thing, that it is ok for DC to try.  In my heart I want to protect DC because we do not have the means to prepare nearly as much as DC would need to from the looks of it.  I need to be convinced otherwise I think but seeing as me and my DCs managed to guess about 90% of a particular vocational school's offers of places this year based on social media posts alone, I think I may have a point in wanting to dissuade my DC from even trying to audition.

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My advice would be to get off social media. It's edited and "curated" (very annoying misuse of a term which indicates knowledge and expertise). It isn't the real world, and it's not particularly healthy if you take it seriously.

 

Presumably your DC are being taught by experts whom you trust. Talk to them.

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29 minutes ago, Momapalooza said:

After months of reading threads on this forum, especially during the lockdown months, I thought it was time to sign up so I can join the conversations . My DC is considering going through the whole audition madness next year, with applications I assume starting later this year, and I have so many burning questions since starting reading the posts on here and being exposed to social media.

 

My question is basically the title.  With 3 young ones, we have a very social media savvy fam and my teenage DCs are all exposed to social media although they themselves aren't active on it and are loathe to post and hate having their photos taken for mum to post on hers despite my account being private.  And so we have all seen Instagram posts of vocational schools acceptances over the last few weeks, mostly from the same DCs who actively post on their Instagram.  I remember years ago, during my teen DCs time (year 10) vocational schools used to stress that they offer places mostly based on facility, physique and...potential.  However, as I see the same kids offered places this year being posted by 2-3 different dance schools, by multiple private lesson teachers, and the same kids who post quite a lot about their training, I am really hesitant to even let DC try.  So much so one can easily guess that some if not most of them probably train more hours that current full time students!  I am also aware that some get training on the side and keeping it from their usual schools/teachers (god knows the sorts of trouble/drama this can get them into when teachers find out).  By the time these kids go full time in September, they will probably be cutting down the hours they train compared to the hours they have been doing the last couple or so years.

 

Obviously no disrespect to these determined, hardworking and beautiful kids who rightly deserve their places but I do wonder what chance a little boy or girl whose family cannot fund such extensive training pre-auditions but who has big dreams and dare I say it, massive potential, has?  I know some associates have funding for talented kids who need it, but what if their families cannot afford multiple privates a week, or to train in more than one school, take classes every day, apply for various intensives?  Back in my older DCs time, a lot of the kids who got in attended one associates and did maybe 2 graded classes a week, maybe a private a week the month leading up to auditions.  Back then, I still believed that it was potential.  These days, I think kids with simply potential can easily be overlooked when in a group with amazingly polished young dancers.

 

It looks like there is a move slowly and surely to places being offered to kids who already look like they're the "finished product" - or as finished as someone can be at 10/11 years old.  There is now an astounding choice of pre-vocational programmes/associates catering for this, the norm is now for a DC to attend 2, 3, even 4 associates.  Looking at the years 4 and 5 there are already kids who are intensely preparing for associates and auditions with still a year or 2 to go.  Where do they find the time to be kids?  Whilst social media posts are taken as a snapshot in time, it would appear they spend a lot of time in photo shoots, being ambassadors and training so many hours which surely cannot be good for such young bodies in the long run?  I am curious to see how this trend plays out and whether this will improve the statistics of kids completing all 5 years in a lower school, going on to upper schools and getting jobs in companies.  How do these kids cope once they start full time?  To keep up with their intensive training from before they start full time, and with the desire to stay there the whole way, I would say they would be tempted to still have private lessons on the side whenever they can despite vocational schools frowning on this.  I personally think this defeats the purpose of going full time.

 

Sorry for the long post but I guess it is just me typing away my thought of the last few weeks and trying to convince myself that it is okay to let my DC enter this whole thing, that it is ok for DC to try.  In my heart I want to protect DC because we do not have the means to prepare nearly as much as DC would need to from the looks of it.  I need to be convinced otherwise I think but seeing as me and my DCs managed to guess about 90% of a particular vocational school's offers of places this year based on social media posts alone, I think I may have a point in wanting to dissuade my DC from even trying to audition.

This is exactly how I think! great post thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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I think its more of a mix than it looks from social media. My daughter is y9 at one of the big schools and her year group was a total mix from kids who did 2 hours a week at a local dance school and had never done a festival or associates, to some who were seasoned professionals doing multiple associate schemes, private lessons, comps and photo shoots, and lots somewhere in between. 

 

I would say a good associate scheme can be a plus on a personal level, just because it puts them in a class with like minded peers, but isn't essential if it doesn't work with your circumstances. Private lessons with a trusted teacher can also be a help to focus on individual things, but again, it isn't the be all and end all. 

 

Ultimately, if its their dream, why not give it a shot. Go in with realistic hopes, remember that it isn't the end of the world (or the career) if they don't do Vocational at 11, and enjoy the experience! 

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I must admit, I have been thinking exactly the same recently! Its very hard not to get sucked up into the perfection of the Instagram world! Remember that most people only post the 'positive' stuff though.

 

I wouldn't let it stop your daughter from trying though, if that's what she wants to do. Shes got as much chance as anyone else 😁 as long as she is happy and enjoying the experience 

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43 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

My advice would be to get off social media. It's edited and "curated" (very annoying misuse of a term which indicates knowledge and expertise). It isn't the real world, and it's not particularly healthy if you take it seriously.

 

Presumably your DC are being taught by experts whom you trust. Talk to them.

 

Absolutely.  Social Media has just added to the pressure and unrealistic expectations on young people.  We were very strict with dd and social media; she didn’t have her own laptop, was not allowed a phone with internet access until year 9 (she was able to message her friends but not surf the web) and was only allowed SM accounts on or after the legal age requirement.  She also had to be my “friend”.  Now at uni, she does browse Instagram but rarely posts, and I’m glad this is the case as her time at full-time school definitely gave her some body image issues.   To see children and teenagers in extreme poses, over-stretching and so on is dangerous for both them and their young audience and I disapprove of it just as I disapprove of “competitive stretching” before auditions.

 

But back to should we let our children try - absolutely.  If you try, and don’t get any finals or offers, then at least you’ve tried.  If you don’t even try, you definitely won’t get an offer.  The audition experience should be looked on as just that - an experience; the chance to dance at different schools, the chance to take class with different teachers, a fun and exciting day out.  Auditioning for associates and/or selective summer schools/performances is great experience for later auditions for full-time schools, so perhaps start there.   My dd had an absolute roller-coaster of a ballet “journey”, sustaining a training-ending injury at 16, but although this was one of many extreme “lows”, she gained so much overall from ballet and it’s always been a comfort to me that she was never able to say “you didn’t let me try.”

 

Your question “is it really still potential?” has different answers depending on age.  For young ones - both junior associates and lower school from years 7-9, it absolutely is based on potential (plus physique and facility, obviously).  They don’t need to be at 2 or more Associates; training is always about quality over quantity, especially at this age. 

 

As Kate says, the best place to start when gauging audition chances is your dcs teacher/s.  

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13 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

Absolutely.  Social Media has just added to the pressure and unrealistic expectations on young people.  We were very strict with dd and social media; she didn’t have her own laptop, was not allowed a phone with internet access until year 9 (she was able to message her friends but not surf the web) and was only allowed SM accounts on or after the legal age requirement.  She also had to be my “friend”.  Now at uni, she does browse Instagram but rarely posts, and I’m glad this is the case as her time at full-time school definitely gave her some body image issues.   To see children and teenagers in extreme poses, over-stretching and so on is dangerous for both them and their young audience and I disapprove of it just as I disapprove of “competitive stretching” before auditions.

 

But back to should we let our children try - absolutely.  If you try, and don’t get any finals or offers, then at least you’ve tried.  If you don’t even try, you definitely won’t get an offer.  The audition experience should be looked on as just that - an experience; the chance to dance at different schools, the chance to take class with different teachers, a fun and exciting day out.  Auditioning for associates and/or selective summer schools/performances is great experience for later auditions for full-time schools, so perhaps start there.   My dd had an absolute roller-coaster of a ballet “journey”, sustaining a training-ending injury at 16, but although this was one of many extreme “lows”, she gained so much overall from ballet and it’s always been a comfort to me that she was never able to say “you didn’t let me try.”

 

Your question “is it really still potential?” has different answers depending on age.  For young ones - both junior associates and lower school from years 7-9, it absolutely is based on potential (plus physique and facility, obviously).  They don’t need to be at 2 or more Associates; training is always about quality over quantity, especially at this age. 

 

As Kate says, the best place to start when gauging audition chances is your dcs teacher/s.  

Hi Anna, yes I completely agree with letting them try for the experience, and there are times I am tempted to just tell DC to go for it.  Sadly, we are a family who cannot afford any extras, especially at the moment.  We were just looking at the incoming intake for Year 7 of one of the big schools and I would say about 80% or so have been trained extensively.  Not just based on what one can easily glean from social media but because my DC has encountered some of these in intensives and auditions.  The ballet world is extremely small, even for these young ones who are just about to start their journey.  It's funny actually because my DCs are very fascinated with politics and economics and current events (we are strange like this!) even from a young age and my DC mentioned that there is a noticeable north/south divide for one of the schools' incoming lower school intake.  An overwhelming majority were from schools or associate centres from the south.  This could of course be a coincidence and perhaps simply reflects the demographic of kids who actually audition.  At the moment, the odds and stats seem very much against some kids but as you said, the experience could be worth it.

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This year seems particularly intense with the riseof online super teachers (ex company dancers/ highly sought after ballet school teachers) being able to offer private zooms easily from their homes. Also how much in person prep would have varied hugely this year as some schools were continuing ‘elite’ associate programmes during lockdown and others not. Some teachers doing live audition prep as per the rules and others not.   I expect this will continue.
 

However, I don’t think it is just a new thing this year,  my dd got to WL finals last year and seemed to be one of the few who hadn’t been having almost daily private lessons and hadn’t applied to all the ballet schools. She had just started as a JA in year 6 and we hadn’t even considered ballet school until we realised to apply to MAs you it’s the same audition process as WL. With hindsight, I think on less than 2 hours ballet a week and alternate weeks as a JA from Sept - Jan, she did amazingly well to get to WL finals and get an MA place. If we”d gone all out maybe she would have got in somewhere but would it have crushed her love of dance?  I don’t know but I do think that realistically there is very little chance for those children (especially girls) who are auctioning based on potential with just a limited amount of hours of ballet in the week. 

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49 minutes ago, Springflower said:

I must admit, I have been thinking exactly the same recently! Its very hard not to get sucked up into the perfection of the Instagram world! Remember that most people only post the 'positive' stuff though.

 

I wouldn't let it stop your daughter from trying though, if that's what she wants to do. Shes got as much chance as anyone else 😁 as long as she is happy and enjoying the experience 

 Oh I know, Springflower - it can be very entertaining these days though.  People my age use it more to keep in touch with a wider range of friends and family but youngsters these days have to be monitored so carefully.  I made sure my DCs only signed up when they were actually the minimum age, I told them there was no way I would let them open an account even if they offered to put "parent or mum monitored" on it.  I remembered my youngest asking if s/he can have one too and I said the internet police will come knocking if anyone under the minimum age signs up for one 🤣  I am horrified how young ones these have lives that are so openly public in some cases.  As I said in my previous post, about a month or so ago, just for fun because both me and my DC love ballet we thought we would try to guess who would get into a certain vocational school just based on posts we've seen of these kids auditioning (either posted my themselves or their schools) and what we have heard about them.  The truly amazing yet worrying thing is that we correctly guessed 10 out of a potential 12/14.  That is how small and predictable this world has become!

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This is  a very interesting topic. I agree with everyone else try not to take social media too seriously as people post what they’re good at and you don’t see their struggles. However having said that my dd was accepted into White Lodge 8 years ago she only trained at a local dance school in a hall but also did royal ballet associates every Saturday. She had no privates and certainly didn’t do any summer intensives simply because we couldn’t afford them. She was definitely accepted into the school based on her potential and I do believe if she auditioned for White Lodge now I am certain she wouldn’t have gained a place. Back when she was 10 Or 11 yrs old it was very common for children to be accepted on potential and the international competition was also less. however recently I have become increasingly aware of children as young as 9 or 10 yrs old doing multiple private lessons with top industry professionals , associate schemes etc and they do seem to be the ones being accepted into the schools. I do worry about them doing too much at a young age they may be more prone to burnout especially if they continue to train privately alongside their vocational training. However having said all this let your dc apply see what happens because you never know if you don’t try.

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1 hour ago, Momapalooza said:

 

Sorry for the long post but I guess it is just me typing away my thought of the last few weeks and trying to convince myself that it is okay to let my DC enter this whole thing, that it is ok for DC to try. 

 

Hello and welcome. I don't have any experience of vocational schools etc but in respect of the above bit, I agree with what others have said in that it is right to let them try. As a parent you have a responsibility to protect and guide your children but if you stop them following a dream it could lead to regret, resentment and blame later on. I think the best option is to make sure they understand the realities and that it is a hard path with disappointment for many along the way but at the end of the day, they will never know if they don't try. Also, I strongly believe that rejection is part of life and sometimes learning to deal with that early on can really help. Those that get everything handed to them on a plate can then end up getting floored the first time they have an unsuccessful job interview or miss out on a promotion for example. Just be there to encourage and support, giving them the strength and courage to work towards their dreams, celebrate their successes but be there to pick them back up at the low points.

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5 minutes ago, Momapalooza said:

 Oh I know, Springflower - it can be very entertaining these days though.  People my age use it more to keep in touch with a wider range of friends and family but youngsters these days have to be monitored so carefully.  I made sure my DCs only signed up when they were actually the minimum age, I told them there was no way I would let them open an account even if they offered to put "parent or mum monitored" on it.  I remembered my youngest asking if s/he can have one too and I said the internet police will come knocking if anyone under the minimum age signs up for one 🤣  I am horrified how young ones these have lives that are so openly public in some cases.  As I said in my previous post, about a month or so ago, just for fun because both me and my DC love ballet we thought we would try to guess who would get into a certain vocational school just based on posts we've seen of these kids auditioning (either posted my themselves or their schools) and what we have heard about them.  The truly amazing yet worrying thing is that we correctly guessed 10 out of a potential 12/14.  That is how small and predictable this world has become!

“ Guessing who gets in “ gosh that feels like a bit of a blood sport especially with children so young . I’m glad that once these children are in vocational training their posts are monitored ,would leave them very vulnerable otherwise . When my DD was in year six and preparing for vocational auditions she trained two hours a week plus her junior associate classes . Nearer the time of auditions she increased the ballet slightly and put a hold on the tap and modern just so she didn’t burn out . She was lucky to get a place at WL and in her class there was a real mix of levels of training . However they did all have the necessary ingredients.As a ballet teacher and a ballet mum I would always say it’s a marathon not a sprint . With natural potential taking a student much further than hours of coaching . I’ve never believed in having extra coaching whilst in vocational school other than Easter / summer schools . Young bodies need to rest and grow . Of course everyone takes their own path and decides how best to achieve their goals this is just the recipe I believe has worked for my daughter. She’s now in her final year at the lower school . Good luck next year to your DC, take the pressure of comparison away and try and enjoy the process it’s not for the faint hearted 😂 but it’s a journey we would both take again . Xx 

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This was certainly something that we worried about when setting out on the Vocational school route. DD would follow all the girls at these “top” associates classes, having never been accepted herself. Constantly comparing herself to them & all their glory. She was not as flexible, had never done any competitions, didn’t even own a fancy tutu. But we knew she had talent, alongside a low self esteem from judging herself against others constantly. She did a couple of associates and as many lessons as we could but living in a rural area that was hard, so we struggled and managed 2 private lessons each week with a local but amazing teacher. 
We set about the process of auditions last year and to our absolute joy she was awarded an MDS, she was thrilled but looking at the social media profiles of her then to be class mates she was still convinced she would be the weakest, but she was not by far & she is doing fantastically and her confidence is soaring. So I would say potential is still seen, just go for it... 

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Yes, welcome to the forum, Momapalooza.  I must admit, as soon as I saw references to "finished products" and "professionals" at the age of 10, I thought: "Uh-oh, burnout incoming".  It seems to me that there are so many "professionalised" young dancers across the world, who have very impressive-looking social media presences and so on, but frequently they don't make it professionally, for whatever reason, and burnout often seems to be one of them (or injury, of course).  How many times have we asked "Whatever happened to [that dancer who was thought to be so promising]?", only to find they are no longer dancing for whatever reason.  Far better to take it slowly, let them have a relatively normal childhood and not be hothoused, in my opinion, with the knowledge that you can always give up if you want.

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I'm fascinated and intrigued by this topic, and have no issues offering myself up as a parent that could easily be accused of 'overtraining' a young dancer, and posting too much publicly etc.  In fact, I totally get the point of the opening topic, and even found myself thinking and agreeing with many aspects of that during my own DS's ballet journey. But I often think that the 'reality' of a situation sometimes exists halfway between 2 extremes.  As someone said, Instagram is a moment in time or a version of reality, and should be taken with a pinch of salt.  Even though I post about my own DS, (and will admit its more about his successes than failures), I am often concerned to see how social media suggests the 'right path'.  My first worry is seeing so much dangerous overstretching. Its littered amongst every post. But that level of stretch is not required for any of the vocational schools, or any of the associate programmes, so is very misleading.  Major associate schools (Tring CBA, JA, Elmhurst YD) actively and aggressively discourage it.  So no one should think that this is a prerequisite for those schemes.

 

Zoom has fortunately allowed me to see a lot more class content than dropping my son off at the studio and waiting outside.  I'm pleasantly surprised that its all rather simple and age-appropriate.  What a child can demonstrate on Instagram is not necessarily what they are being asked to do in class, and presumably not what they will be asked to do at audition, so it might look intimidating, but in reality what they are learning is very simple.  Fundamental foundations. 

 

Coming from the Midlands, I put my son into a ballet class at the age of 5 as he had an interest in dance and movement.  It was purely for pleasure.  When we moved to London, I couldn't help but feel that there was more of a class-element to ballet (not a dig at London, just an observation of the schools we found ourselves in), or at least, a much more competitive vibe to it all.  We moved ballet schools a number of times (and gave up some 'good names') to arrive at the best student-teacher dynamic.  In my personal opinion, the relationship with the tutor far exceed how 'known' they might be.  

 

The number of ballet classes my DS did snowballed out of loneliness and being bullied at school.  It was one of the few places he could be free from bullying and feel good about himself.  So to some people, that appeared to be over-training, but to me it was to put him in a happy space away from the horror of his school day, and somewhere he could feel respected. But it took time to arrive at the right number of lessons, and changing classes/school's until we found great nurturing relationships.

 

At the same time, I think its worth noting that many associate programmes are teaching the same thing.  So children who do multiple programmes might be accessing MORE frequency of training, but they're not accessing EXTRA knowledge that no one else can.  Although my son does a number of programmes, I am mindful that they are all similar, as there is no point doing training at one centre that counter-acts or contradicts training at another.  As someone in another topic said, 'practice makes permanent' in ballet, so quality is definitely more important that quantity.

 

I will agree, I have found it quite easy to 'guess' the children who get places.  But equally, a lot of the places go to children who's parents don't post or care for social media, and those children/parents will have taken a very private path that may or may not have been very different.

 

'Potential' is a word I frequently hear from teachers.  I still like to believe there's value and recognition in that.  When it comes to audition day, I'm hopeful the assessors will be looking at the potential in the room rather than the number of Instagram followers. 

 

 

 

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This year has become very apparent I have several social media accounts and I only use them to promote my business but I do feel that this year the audition process has become a divide,   My DC was given an hour in the studios to record the tapes and that was it where I’ve heard of Dc parents spending over £100 a week on privates, I couldn’t even afford that in a month! Well probably never atm.     I approached one vocational teacher and they wanted £35 per hour and a lot of others are around £60, until zoom and lockdown this wouldn’t of been the case at all and the auditions would of been more on an equal footing.    My DC Will leave it now and we will keep plodding and dancing and hopefully will apply again at 16 when all of this horrible time is long gone. 

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1 hour ago, Momapalooza said:

An overwhelming majority were from schools or associate centres from the south. 

 

I also noticed this!

 

We'll be trying out for vocational school next year and have a lot of the same thoughts. DD does attend multiple associates but this is only as a result of not expecting to get into any and hedging our bets 😀 They have very much opened our eyes. We know of people who travel to a different city to have take class at a top school in addition to privates with a big name teacher - my DD will never be able to compete with that. I am relatively sanguine about it all though, DD is either good enough or not!

 

I reckon I could have a reasonable punt about who will get in next year now 😂

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4 minutes ago, WrapsnBows said:

This year has become very apparent I have several social media accounts and I only use them to promote my business but I do feel that this year the audition process has become a divide,   My DC was given an hour in the studios to record the tapes and that was it where I’ve heard of Dc parents spending over £100 a week on privates, I couldn’t even afford that in a month! Well probably never atm.     I approached one vocational teacher and they wanted £35 per hour and a lot of others are around £60, until zoom and lockdown this wouldn’t of been the case at all and the auditions would of been more on an equal footing.    My DC Will leave it now and we will keep plodding and dancing and hopefully will apply again at 16 when all of this horrible time is long gone. 

I do agree, and feel grateful that my DS didn't have to do any filming for a vocational audition.  Its a cost and expense that seems inconsistent. I think this year has exposed an unbalance, and like you say pre/post lockdown, hopefully all auditions will be on an equal footing. I did make a home video for an intensive, and I also took some photos at home for White Lodge summer intensives.  They were very amateur and the best we could do. But (and returning to potential) they did what they needed to do, and didnt cost me a penny to make. His ballet teacher could not have opened her ballet studio to film/photo there as she was religiously following government restrictions.  Its quite clear that some images/videos on social media were taken in a studio, outside of the home environment.  People will do whatever they feel necessary to do, and I respect their decision to pursue whatever they feel necessary.  But I do hope that moving forwards, we wont be in a situation where people have to fork out money in the hope of making something 'more polished' than someone else.

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Thanks for posting this.
 

A quick # search and my DD can see the other children that have been offered places. She’s been very lucky to have received offers too however now feeling quite overwhelmed and not ‘good enough’.


We aren’t big on social media and I only let her have an ‘insta’ presence a few weeks ago following her continual requests. I should have timed it better in hindsight and delayed until all this audition frenzy is over!!! 
 


 


 

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17 minutes ago, BellaF said:

 

I also noticed this!

 

We'll be trying out for vocational school next year and have a lot of the same thoughts. DD does attend multiple associates but this is only as a result of not expecting to get into any and hedging our bets 😀 They have very much opened our eyes. We know of people who travel to a different city to have take class at a top school in addition to privates with a big name teacher - my DD will never be able to compete with that. I am relatively sanguine about it all though, DD is either good enough or not!

 

I reckon I could have a reasonable punt about who will get in next year now 😂

I noticed this too, and had a number of theories on this.

 

Having a son, I naturally pay attention to the journey of other boys a year or two ahead.  Were all treading a similar path in some way.....  The vocational students for Y7 did appear to predominantly come from the South/South East, or have access to classes in the South/South East.  Someone did remind me that of all the JA centres, London offer a boy-only class which might account for some of that.  And being a larger centre with more students too.... There is also a higher concentration of known schools around the M25 that have strong success getting students into WL.

 

I think I could put names into an envelope today for next year, and get 70% right!

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1 hour ago, NeverTooOld said:

 

Hello and welcome. I don't have any experience of vocational schools etc but in respect of the above bit, I agree with what others have said in that it is right to let them try. As a parent you have a responsibility to protect and guide your children but if you stop them following a dream it could lead to regret, resentment and blame later on. I think the best option is to make sure they understand the realities and that it is a hard path with disappointment for many along the way but at the end of the day, they will never know if they don't try. Also, I strongly believe that rejection is part of life and sometimes learning to deal with that early on can really help. Those that get everything handed to them on a plate can then end up getting floored the first time they have an unsuccessful job interview or miss out on a promotion for example. Just be there to encourage and support, giving them the strength and courage to work towards their dreams, celebrate their successes but be there to pick them back up at the low points.

 

Great post, NeverTooOld.  Learning that life is full of yesses and nos, passes and fails, teaches children that it’s not personal, that the world doesn’t end if you get a “no thank you” (these are sometimes a “not yet”), it can help give them resilience, and good things can come out of even the worst-seeming events.  Through her injury, my daughter was introduced to the most wonderful, nurturing, brilliant and naturally gifted teacher, who started off teaching her floor-barre, then guided her back to doing full class over the next year.  She’s now a wonderful, close friend even though dd is at university.  So you never know what will happen along the way, and 15+ years’ commitment to ballet is always interesting to have on your CV, regardless of whether you end up on a different path.

 

Even one good selective Associate scheme that assesses the students each year is excellent practice for auditions and interviews.  

 

The main thing is though to try to enjoy the journey though, without concentrating solely on the destination.  

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My DD (year 5) has recently asked for an Instagram account so she can follow other dancers who are as passionate as she is - among her peer group at dancing she’s the only one who is keen to pursue additional classes like associates and intensives and wanted the chance to connect a bit with others. It’s made me really aware of the opportunities that other dancers have had, especially over lockdown with online masterclasses etc! There does seem to be a high proportion of vocational successes among the dancers who have a large number of followers, are ambassadors etc but there must be many others who have a smaller online presence (or none at all!) so I remain hopeful that it does go on potential. 

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4 minutes ago, MamaFrosty said:

My DD (year 5) has recently asked for an Instagram account so she can follow other dancers who are as passionate as she is - among her peer group at dancing she’s the only one who is keen to pursue additional classes like associates and intensives and wanted the chance to connect a bit with others. It’s made me really aware of the opportunities that other dancers have had, especially over lockdown with online masterclasses etc! There does seem to be a high proportion of vocational successes among the dancers who have a large number of followers, are ambassadors etc but there must be many others who have a smaller online presence (or none at all!) so I remain hopeful that it does go on potential. 

I often say to my DS, even if he had 300 followers, he doesn't know 300 people!  3000 followers won't make his turnout any better than 3, or 30....  And no where on an application form does it ask for what brands you are an ambassador for.  I like and loathe social media; its bought many opportunities to my attention, but I am quite confident (and hopeful) it plays no part in selection at audition.  I'm with you, they are still only looking at potential.

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18 minutes ago, BalletBoysDad said:

I often say to my DS, even if he had 300 followers, he doesn't know 300 people!  3000 followers won't make his turnout any better than 3, or 30....  And no where on an application form does it ask for what brands you are an ambassador for.  I like and loathe social media; its bought many opportunities to my attention, but I am quite confident (and hopeful) it plays no part in selection at audition.  I'm with you, they are still only looking at potential.

So very true! I also think social media can be brilliant and does offer many great opportunities! Me and my daughter look together and really enjoy watching everyone's journey. All children who have had offers have worked incredibly hard and deserve to be able to celebrate their success. 

 

I think if we all had endless amounts of money we would also pay for our children to do extra classes and associate classes if that's what they wanted. Im not in that position so we just work with what we've got 😊 I like to think they are also looking for potential still

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1 hour ago, WrapsnBows said:

This year has become very apparent I have several social media accounts and I only use them to promote my business but I do feel that this year the audition process has become a divide,   My DC was given an hour in the studios to record the tapes and that was it where I’ve heard of Dc parents spending over £100 a week on privates, I couldn’t even afford that in a month! Well probably never atm.     I approached one vocational teacher and they wanted £35 per hour and a lot of others are around £60, until zoom and lockdown this wouldn’t of been the case at all and the auditions would of been more on an equal footing.    My DC Will leave it now and we will keep plodding and dancing and hopefully will apply again at 16 when all of this horrible time is long gone. 

Exactly this, WrapsnBows.  Just out of curiosity I tried to get quotations of how much privates/studio hire cost and was horrified.  Makes me think I'm in the wrong job. Over lockdown I knew of kids who were constantly having classes/privates several times a day, every day, leading up to auditions.  If you try and hazard a guess of the total spent every week, it boggles my mind how people can afford.  However, at the same time, I do understand that perhaps if one can afford it then why not.  As people say opportunities like this only come every so often so might as well give it your best shot.  For us, it's just not possible with other expenses and other kids' hobbies.  I would not feel it fair to inject so much financial support to one child's dream and not the others.  I am sure for others this is very possible given their circumstances but for us, it isn't.

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3 minutes ago, Springflower said:

So very true! I also think social media can be brilliant and does offer many great opportunities! Me and my daughter look together and really enjoy watching everyone's journey. All children who have had offers have worked incredibly hard and deserve to be able to celebrate their success. 

 

I think if we all had endless amounts of money we would also pay for our children to do extra classes and associate classes if that's what they wanted. Im not in that position so we just work with what we've got 😊 I like to think they are also looking for potential still

Absolutely!  Social media has been a great way to learn about some of the paths towards an education in dance.   I wouldn't have known about half of these schools ands schemes if it wasn't for social media and websites such as this forum. I've just been mindful not to let myself think that anything shown or discussed is the ONLY path towards dance.  Its good to see what children are good at on social media, my son enjoys looking too.  But people are often not sharing what they struggle at, and that might be the area that another child really shows potential with at audition etc.

 

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Wow - I'm so glad insta wasn't a thing when my dd was a child.

 

The thought of complete strangers being able to follow my child's progress sounds quite scary to me.

 

And I'm not surprised your dc's feel intimated by these glossy profiles - but please remind them that what people put on social media isn't necessarily a true representation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, BalletBoysDad said:

Absolutely!  Social media has been a great way to learn about some of the paths towards an education in dance.   I wouldn't have known about half of these schools ands schemes if it wasn't for social media and websites such as this forum. I've just been mindful not to let myself think that anything shown or discussed is the ONLY path towards dance.  Its good to see what children are good at on social media, my son enjoys looking too.  But people are often not sharing what they struggle at, and that might be the area that another child really shows potential with at audition etc.

 

 Oh same here! We do love a good browse through posts.  I think they can be equal parts inspiring and worrying.  Social media has been brilliant for us though because it has showed us lots of other opportunities we would not have easily found if it were not for Instagram!  Lots to even maybe put at the back of our minds for after a few years.

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2 hours ago, Dizzyballetmum said:

“ Guessing who gets in “ gosh that feels like a bit of a blood sport especially with children so young . I’m glad that once these children are in vocational training their posts are monitored ,would leave them very vulnerable otherwise . When my DD was in year six and preparing for vocational auditions she trained two hours a week plus her junior associate classes . Nearer the time of auditions she increased the ballet slightly and put a hold on the tap and modern just so she didn’t burn out . She was lucky to get a place at WL and in her class there was a real mix of levels of training . However they did all have the necessary ingredients.As a ballet teacher and a ballet mum I would always say it’s a marathon not a sprint . With natural potential taking a student much further than hours of coaching . I’ve never believed in having extra coaching whilst in vocational school other than Easter / summer schools . Young bodies need to rest and grow . Of course everyone takes their own path and decides how best to achieve their goals this is just the recipe I believe has worked for my daughter. She’s now in her final year at the lower school . Good luck next year to your DC, take the pressure of comparison away and try and enjoy the process it’s not for the faint hearted 😂 but it’s a journey we would both take again . Xx 

Sorry, this is my fault for maybe using the wrong phrase, I didn't mean to make it sound sinister.  I do apologise.  In reality it was more like a casual conversation that was along the lines of "oh, I think so and so will get in to X school, also so and so..."  It is true though that it is quite worrying how some kids are very active on social media at such a young age although I suspect for some of them, the posters are the parent/s.  The flipside to this is that I find it very freaky when a parent posts on a child's account but uses the first person voice, like they are the child actually writing the caption or comment.

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