Is it really still potential? (Royal Ballet School 2021 intake)

[Pups_mum]

Well said @Anna C

I completely understand the disappointment of not gaining a place. In some ways getting to finals and then getting a no must be tougher than getting a no from prelims. It's also natural to want to dissect the results and try to figure out what's going on - we've all done it.

But speculation really doesn't help anyone. I think social media makes us feel that we know people, but for the reasons already discussed on this thread and others, a lot of that isn't completely real. And I've said it before  but I'll say it again (in fact I've said it thousands of times in my working days!) Correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Even if people have correctly identified commonalities between a number of successful candidates those things may or may not have been factors in the decision - we simply don't know and probably never will. 

I also don't believe that the RBS, or any other school for that matter, take dancers to finals who have no prospect of a place. If your child has got that far they clearly have a lot of potential and did very well in the prelims. And please parents, don't blame yourselves - you all sound like lovely supportive parents but so much in this whole ballet world is beyond our control. Try not to think "if only I'd known or done XY or Z". My DD didn't go to a lower school so I don't have first hand experience but many friends whose children did have told me that its very much back to basics at the beginning of year 7. So its very unlikely that parents not being able to afford private lessons with "big names" etc will have much, if any impact. 

All the finalists have done wonderfully well, whatever their backgrounds. I'm sure that new and exciting opportunities will come the way of all your lovely little dancers if they keep on dancing with joy. Those opportunities might not be right now, and may look quite different to what you imagine now but these experiences are never wasted.

[Dancing Kitty]

1 hour ago, TwoDancers said:

You are making very big assumptions and speculating and generalising un-necessarily here - I can’t even begin to work out how you can say that all those children are “seasoned performance professionals” - honestly?  And so what if they are?

I am beyond baffled.  
How about we simply say well done to the children and wish them good luck at whatever school they may be attending, vocational or otherwise.  That old mantra - be kind.

 

I am sorry but I have obviously either misread or misunderstood something in the posts.  I was in no way taking anything away from the achievements of those who have places at WL or any other dance school, vocational or otherwise, for that matter.  I thought I was answering as to where the information about what training and experience dancers have was coming from.  To quote me as having said that the children are "seasoned performance professionals" is so far away from what I believe.  A child starting in year 7 at vocational school is only at the start of a journey and regardless of their prior learning and experience will go back to basics and schools are looking for someone with potential.  Apologies if I have offended anyone.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Dancing Kitty
Typo

[Mum of unicorn dancer]

Please accept apology for my previous post as I did not want to upset or offend anyone. On contrary, I want to celebrate all dancers and their parents hard work and dedication irrespective of outcome of finals/auditions. Good luck to everyone on their dancing journey.

[Anna C]

10 minutes ago, Dancing Kitty said:

 

I am sorry but I have obviously either misread or misunderstood something in the posts.  I was in no way taking anything away from the achievements of those who have places at WL or any other dance school, vocational or otherwise, for that matter.  I thought I was answering as to where the information about what training and experience dancers have was coming from.  To quote me as having said that the children are "seasoned performance professionals" is so far away from I believe.  A child starting in year 7 at vocational school is only at the start of a journey and regardless of their prior learning and experience will go back to basics and schools are looking for someone with potential.  Apologies if I have offended anyone.

 

Dancing Kitty, I think @TwoDancers thought you were Mum of unicorn dancer, because you answered TwoDancers’ question “how do you know” (the children are seasoned performance professionals) which TwoDancers was asking Mum of unicorn dancer. 

[Dancing Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Anna C said:

 

Dancing Kitty, I think @TwoDancers thought you were Mum of unicorn dancer, because you answered TwoDancers’ question “how do you know” (the children are seasoned performance professionals) which TwoDancers was asking Mum of unicorn dancer. 

 

Thank you @Anna C  I have to say I was a bit confused as to what had happened. 

[Anna C]

Just now, Dancing Kitty said:

 

Thank you @Anna C  I have to say I was a bit confused as to what had happened. 

 

Easily done, especially in writing. ☺️

[TwoDancers]

1 hour ago, Dancing Kitty said:

 

I am sorry but I have obviously either misread or misunderstood something in the posts.  I was in no way taking anything away from the achievements of those who have places at WL or any other dance school, vocational or otherwise, for that matter.  I thought I was answering as to where the information about what training and experience dancers have was coming from.  To quote me as having said that the children are "seasoned performance professionals" is so far away from what I believe.  A child starting in year 7 at vocational school is only at the start of a journey and regardless of their prior learning and experience will go back to basics and schools are looking for someone with potential.  Apologies if I have offended anyone.

Sorry, I was replying to an earlier message that you had replied to and quoting the original poster not you!

[Dancing Kitty]

21 minutes ago, TwoDancers said:

Sorry, I was replying to an earlier message that you had replied to and quoting the original poster not you!

 

Confusion all round, I think - glad it's all cleared up. 😊

[Kate_N]

4 hours ago, TwoDancers said:

How about we simply say well done to the children and wish them good luck at whatever school they may be attending, vocational or otherwise.  That old mantra - be kind.

 

Thank you so much @TwoDancers and @Anna C for your wise words. Some of the speculation about children on this thread is close to the bone at times.

[glissade]

On 28/03/2021 at 23:22, Pups_mum said:

Maybe there needs to be more development opportunities for dancers who don't aspire to a professional career? The process of selection as a potential professional starts so young, when a child can't possibly understand the implications. Really what is needed are enrichment opportunities- the chance to do more of what they love, without it being a precursor to, well, anything  - art for art's sake if you like. I

Yes, this - absolutely this. It's sadly incredibly difficult to find workshops etc without a vocational focus for teenagers dancing at Advanced level. And this vocational focus also seems to stimulate an element of competition among the participants, no matter how friendly they are .... and conversations that inevitably lead to questions such as "Where are you auditioning?" etc etc. For my own daughter, who isn't on a professional pathway, this whole atmosphere has put her off joining workshops and summer courses at a level that she would undoubtedly have enjoyed if there had been more of a focus on enrichment rather than vocation!

Edited March 31, 2021 by glissade

[taxi4ballet]

I know of two dc who have been offered places at WL this year. Both of them go to local schools I'm aware of, which are run by exceptional dance teachers. The schools have a strong track record of getting students into full-time training, both lower and upper (and by that I mean several each year, every year), and associate programmes. Neither school does competitions or festivals, and as far as I know, the young dancers do not have a big online presence themselves either.

 

The reason these two got offered places this year is down to their natural ability and potential, and the truly outstanding teaching they have received.

[MPatti]

To me the word “potential” has been very nebulous.  What does that really mean?  Having seen RBS summer parent observation, DD opportunity to take Summer class last year virtually with Powney, I came to at least part of the equation- your child’s ability to follow lengthy instructions for combinations, remembering them without watching other kids and staying on the music as they have the confidence to know what to do ( as they get older I am amazed at how some can do this so well), do a variation in time with the music with a group after having practiced it only a few times with said group and not having the benefit of a personal coach for weeks on end to teach you), and finally actually applying the corrections. And if after all that and more you can still manage to have some artistry, that is potential. Although these observations were for age 14 plus, they could be scaled down for age.  What other specific components of potential have others seen and observed with RBS? 

 

 

[Kate_N]

What you're describing @MPattisounds like a version of 'kinaesthetic intelligence.' An aptitude for learning in a particular way through physical cues (rather than words, or visually, etc etc)

 

Other things that determine 'potential': one might add the potential for a physique which is currently in demand in classical ballet companies. These are fairly well accepted: in girls/women: small head, long neck, legs in proportion to torso (or slightly longer), strength without bulk, as well as a fair degree of natural/passive turnout. 

 

For boys/men, probably slightly different, in that broad shoulders and probably more of a consideration of the proportions of strength/weight/bulk to size.

 

For both sexes, overall, it's about the dancer being able to create visually pleasing body movements & shapes, I suppose.

 

There's also possibly an issue of height - again, at age 11, it's potential, isn't it? My mother was at a vocational ballet school in the late 40s/early 50s (which is still going with an excellent reputation), and a schoolmate of hers was rejected for White Lodge because of potential physique issues (proportions of torso, spine, and legs) and the prediction that she would grow to be "too tall." I know a very talented teacher in the US who attended School of American Ballet all through his teen years, but because he's short for a man (I'd say he's under 5' 6") he was told that he probably wouldn't achieve a company position - although he has legs & turnout to die for when I've done class with him ... 

 

It's never a level playing field ...

Edited March 31, 2021 by Kate_N