Francesca Hayward in British Vogue (and others)

[JNC]

Not sure if this the right place to put this but Frankie Hayward is on the cover of Vogue’s September issue (she is one of 15 women on the cover). Very pleased to see her on there. It’s the issue guest edited by Meghan Markle, I imagine (hope) Hayward will have more photos and an interview inside! It’s our Friday. 

 

The BBC news story is here. 

 

[bangorballetboy]

The original posting in this thread contained a full cut and paste of an article from the BBC News website.  This is a clear breach of the AUP, particularly as the article contained images that were stated to be copyright.  I have replaced the article with a link to the item on the website.

 

On a completely different note, I do find it rather odd that some people continue to refer to a married woman by her maiden name when she doesn't do so herself.

[Fiz]

I agree about the repeated use of the maiden name of the Duchess of Sussex and even more ridiculously that of the Duchess of Cambridge who has been married for eight years now!

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

On a completely different note, I do find it rather odd that some people continue to refer to a married woman by her maiden name when she doesn't do so herself.

 

The article itself does so in one of the captions - I’m not sure whether this is just sloppy editing or whether the BBC has decided to mix things up a bit.

[JNC]

Whoops re the copy paste - noted for future.

 

I suppose it’s just what she was known as - much the way people still refer to Cheryl Cole by that name even though she hasn’t been married to Ashley Cole for some years. The alternative is to call her ‘Duchess of Sussex’ or ‘Megan Sussex’ (?) which sorry sounds a bit formal/odd to me. I didn’t mean any offence by it and as people do still refer to her by that name I don’t think it’s a major faux pas. 

 

I would imagine Kate/Catherine has similar issue as royals don’t have surnames much the way we ‘normal’ people do, you end up having to refer to them by their title which in day to day conversation seems a bit formal/deferential to me. 

[Jan McNulty]

The Royal Family's surname, since 1960, has been Mountbatten-Windsor.  George V had changed the surname to Windsor in 1917.

 

https://www.royal.uk/royal-family-name

 

 

 

[RuthE]

1 hour ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

The article itself does so in one of the captions - I’m not sure whether this is just sloppy editing or whether the BBC has decided to mix things up a bit.

 

So does the introductory piece on the Vogue website.

 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/meghan-markle-guest-editor-september-issue-british-vogue-2019

[bangorballetboy]

6 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

The Royal Family's surname, since 1960, has been Mountbatten-Windsor.  George V had changed the surname to Windsor in 1917.

 

https://www.royal.uk/royal-family-name

 

 

 

 

But technically only for those who don't have (or are entitled to) HM or HRH (e.g. Archie Mountbatten-Windsor).

[JNC]

To get back on topic, both British Vogue and Hayward herself have posted the pic that will be inside the magazine 

 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/gallery/forces-for-change-british-vogue-september-issue-cover

 

I’m so pleased to see Frankie featured but I wish the hair wasn’t covering the face! However, I like the non-stereotypical styling and that her leg looks so amazing and strong! 

 

I know she’s been featured in Vogue a few times so hope to continue to see her (and hopefully more other dancers) in magazines in this way.

[maryrosesatonapin]

Thank you for the heads-up, JNC.  I love the pic of Frankie on the cover but the one inside, not so much... I don't like ballerinas' legs to look too 'sporty' even though they have to do such hard work.  It's nice to see her being acknowledged.  I wonder if Meghan goes to the ballet much?

[SPD444]

29 minutes ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Thank you for the heads-up, JNC.  I love the pic of Frankie on the cover but the one inside, not so much... I don't like ballerinas' legs to look too 'sporty' even though they have to do such hard work.  It's nice to see her being acknowledged.  I wonder if Meghan goes to the ballet much?

 

I love seeing the muscleature, male or female. To me it encapsulates both strength and beauty. ( Hope the pin was removed safely )

[Colman]

3 hours ago, RuthE said:

 

So does the introductory piece on the Vogue website.

 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/meghan-markle-guest-editor-september-issue-british-vogue-2019

 

Search Engine Optimisation, I  suspect. That's the name people are most likely to search for her under. 

[JNC]

1 hour ago, maryrosesatonapin said:

Thank you for the heads-up, JNC.  I love the pic of Frankie on the cover but the one inside, not so much... I don't like ballerinas' legs to look too 'sporty' even though they have to do such hard work.  It's nice to see her being acknowledged.  I wonder if Meghan goes to the ballet much?

 

I agree the pic on the cover is lovely! I’m hoping it’ll be featured bigger in the magazine but have a feeling it might not be...sadly I’ll imagine it’ll be tiny on the cover!

 

I hope there’s a proper interview not just a quote!

[Richard LH]

From today's links, a pretty standard crass Mail Online piece about Francesca Hayward which informs us inter alia that  "A Royal Ballet principal dancer also stars as one of Meghan Markle's Vogue trailblazers."

and  "Joining the Royal ballet in 2010, Francesca went on to perform in classic ballets such as Romeo and Juliet and is now their Principle dancer"

 

So it seems she is both a "Principal" at the Royal Ballet, and their (one) "Principle"🙄 dancer ....

Edited July 30, 2019 by Richard LH

[JNC]

4 hours ago, Richard LH said:

From today's links, a pretty standard crass Mail Online piece about Francesca Hayward which informs us inter alia that  "A Royal Ballet principal dancer also stars as one of Meghan Markle's Vogue trailblazers."

and  "Joining the Royal ballet in 2010, Francesca went on to perform in classic ballets such as Romeo and Juliet and is now their Principle dancer"

 

So it seems she is both a "Principal" at the Royal Ballet, and their (one) "Principle"🙄 dancer ....

 

Seems like a bit of a pointless article that doesn't add anything to what is available through a google search on Hayward anyway...what drivel. 

 

I am intending to buy the Vogue when it's out. I don't mind photographing the pages and uploading them if my technical ability stretches to it, but presume this contravenes the forums rules anyway (?) so I'll stick to reporting back re comments if there's anything interesting said from Hayward re ballet and upcoming work. 

[Lizbie1]

Agree it's disappointing that the Mail article isn't better - but I'd rather that than nothing, and it should reach people who would otherwise never Google her in the first place.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Lizbie1

[ninamargaret]

Well, the Mail has done better than The Times which doesn't mention her at all, in spite of there being two,articles about the cover.

[bridiem]

If the aim is to make Francesca Hayward look like a boxer in boots, it's a great photo. Why anyone would want to do that beats me.

[Colman]

I’d say it was a very conscious choice to emphasise her raw strength - which most people have no idea of -  as well as her grace. Especially given the context of the shoot.

[RuthE]

Agreed, Colman. When a ballerina is wearing tights for a classical role, I think it’s fine only to see the beauty rather than the strength, as that’s what that genre of ballet wants you to see. But I think the Vogue pic is a great representation of what really constitutes a top ballerina.

[bangorballetboy]

53 minutes ago, bridiem said:

If the aim is to make Francesca Hayward look like a boxer in boots, it's a great photo. Why anyone would want to do that beats me.

 

Well, I think she looks beautiful, graceful and strong (and her own person) in that photograph.

[alison]

4 hours ago, JNC said:

 

Seems like a bit of a pointless article that doesn't add anything to what is available through a google search on Hayward anyway...what drivel. 

 

In that case, I'm doubly glad I didn't bother clicking on it  

[LinMM]

I can't remember the last time I actually bought a copy of Vogue!

Usually read from time to time in the hairdressers ....but even then only if there's no Hello or Okay Magasines lying around!! 

I don't think I will buy this one either....not even with the prospect of Francesca on the cover ....but might nip into the  hairdressers and ask to keep it around till at least September...next appointment!!!

[Fonty]

I had seen other headlines about this, and got completely the wrong impression.  From the publicity, I thought all the women featured were non white or mixed race, which is obviously not the case.  

 

Personally, the photo of Francesca is not to my taste.  If the idea was to show off her muscles, she could have done that equally well in ballet gear.  Not quite sure what the flapping coat and bovver boots are supposed to portray, apart from the fact that she is young and trendy?  Or that ballet dancers have a playful side?  Whatever it is, it didn't work for me.  Makes her look like a little girl who has raided her parents' wardrobe!  

[penelopesimpson]

Much as I like to see publicity about Francesca who is my top lady at RB,  I cannot understand her inclusion in Vogue - or indeed most of the other women whose presence (Greta Thurnberg excepted) seems to be based on their ethnicity, their bank balance and their membership of the virtue signalling brigade.  The title is Agents of Change - what exactly is it that Francesca has changed ?  She is an exceptional dancer whom I follow obsessively but a crusader of and for change?  How so?  Seems to me she is an exceptionally talented young lady with a wonderful work ethic who has applied herself energetically to the business of reaching a pinnacle of excellence.  

 

I don't know about others but I never think of her as mixed race or any colour.  She is a wonderful dancer and her ethnicity surely has absolutely nothing to do with anything and I cannot imagine that it has ever had much to do with her career.

 

As most of the women featured on this ill-advised front cover are black or mixed race, is Ms Markle  (and yes, for me she is Ms Markle and not DOS) saying that it is rare/extraordinary/unheard of for a non-white woman to be such a high achiever in dance?  The evidence suggests that it is uncommon but this is surely not because of any discrimination.  The ballet world has always struck me as being remarkably free from such prejudices with opportunities open to all as the current cosmopolitan line-up at RB demonstrates. 

 

Personally, I am sad to see Francesca in such company - actresses married to multi-millionaire fashion moguls who hold the Vogue purse strings and foul-mouthed commentators whose only claim to anything is their transgender.  We live in strange times.

[Colman]

1 hour ago, penelopesimpson said:

virtue signalling

 

What does that mean?

[penelopesimpson]

3 minutes ago, Colman said:

 

What does that mean?

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

"it's noticeable how often virtue signalling consists of saying you hate things"

 

I would add, often accompanied by behaviour which demonstrates the complete opposite, e.g. taking a private jet to New York whilst preaching climate change.

[Colman]

Uh-huh.

 

2 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

The evidence suggests that it is uncommon but this is surely not because of any discrimination.

 

I can only assume this is either bad humour or some sort of performance art.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Colman

[penelopesimpson]

10 hours ago, Colman said:

Uh-huh.

 

 

I can only assume this is either bad humour or some sort of performance art.

My turn to ask what that means?  My point is surely clear.

[Quintus]

13 hours ago, penelopesimpson said:

Much as I like to see publicity about Francesca who is my top lady at RB,  I cannot understand her inclusion in Vogue - or indeed most of the other women whose presence (Greta Thurnberg excepted) seems to be based on their ethnicity, their bank balance and their membership of the virtue signalling brigade.  The title is Agents of Change - what exactly is it that Francesca has changed ?  She is an exceptional dancer whom I follow obsessively but a crusader of and for change?  How so?  Seems to me she is an exceptionally talented young lady with a wonderful work ethic who has applied herself energetically to the business of reaching a pinnacle of excellence.  

 

I don't know about others but I never think of her as mixed race or any colour.  She is a wonderful dancer and her ethnicity surely has absolutely nothing to do with anything and I cannot imagine that it has ever had much to do with her career.

 

As most of the women featured on this ill-advised front cover are black or mixed race, is Ms Markle  (and yes, for me she is Ms Markle and not DOS) saying that it is rare/extraordinary/unheard of for a non-white woman to be such a high achiever in dance?  The evidence suggests that it is uncommon but this is surely not because of any discrimination.  The ballet world has always struck me as being remarkably free from such prejudices with opportunities open to all as the current cosmopolitan line-up at RB demonstrates. 

 

Personally, I am sad to see Francesca in such company - actresses married to multi-millionaire fashion moguls who hold the Vogue purse strings and foul-mouthed commentators whose only claim to anything is their transgender.  We live in strange times.

 I can relate to your views here. There does seem to be a conscious decision here to make a big thing about race, including people for whom it has never been an issue or major factor.  I am the father of two mixed race sons, and race just doesn't figure much at all in their self perception  - it's not one of the characteristics they would typically describe themselves by. It would annoy all of us if someone associated their personal or professional achievements with their ethnicity.  There are some dancers for whom race looms large - I'd say Misty Copeland has embraced that aspect - and that's fine as it's their choice, but I've never had any sense that Francesca is that interested in it. I may be presumptuous here but I'd imagine her primary self-definition would be seeing herself an excellent dancer, not as an ethnic ambassador.   The Telegraph also recently tried to spin up some nonsense about 'whitewashing' around Francesca's Cats character.  This trivialises their core achievements.

[alison]

I believe Hayward has said on a few occasions that she doesn't define herself/want to be defined by the colour of her skin, or something close to that (although she is of course entitled to change her mind in the future!)

[Scheherezade]

2 hours ago, alison said:

I believe Hayward has said on a few occasions that she doesn't define herself/want to be defined by the colour of her skin, or something close to that (although she is of course entitled to change her mind in the future!)

 

Exactly what I was going to say, Alison. I believe that she went as far as saying that when it was put to her in, I think, a BBC interview, she felt as though we had taken a step back of around 1,000 years as she had never considered herself to be in any way different from anyone else.

[Richard LH]

2 hours ago, alison said:

I believe Hayward has said on a few occasions that she doesn't define herself/want to be defined by the colour of her skin, or something close to that 

 

Indeed,  in fact she says in this Vogue edition "I’m very proud of the colour of my skin and that I’m inspiring people from all backgrounds, but I think it will be great for the next mixed-race or black female Principal dancer that she doesn’t have to be asked about that."  (my emphasis). 

 

Perhaps the best change she can inspire is for  people to respect the wishes of those, like her,  who don't want their racial background to be constantly  referred to or raised on their behalf  by others, for whatever motive.