Royal Ballet Promotion Predictions

[Mummykool]

And even Golding, I suspect, hasn't had the ballets which are his forte to show us what he can really do.

I cannot say I am his greatest fan, but his Onegin was absolutely wonderful

[penelopesimpson]

And please do not patronise me.

I didn't and I wouldn't. I expressed a personal point of view whilst wondering where the 'dislike' of Macrae referred to had featured.

Edited April 19, 2016 by penelopesimpson

[penelopesimpson]

And even Golding, I suspect, hasn't had the ballets which are his forte to show us what he can really do.

i

 

I'm sure you are right but don't know much about him other than that I can see the strength of his technique. Any ideas of roles that would play to his strengths? He is certainly lovely looking - real Prince Charming material.

[Sim]

I agree with Mummykool above. His Onegin was indeed excellent. However, I am struggling to think of anything else in which he has bowled me over, or even made me say 'wow'. He is a wonderful technical dancer, but in most things where emotion is involved he doesn't affect me. This is also how I feel about McRae. He is a truly fantastic dancer, no question, but has he ever come close to making me cry, or feel moved? No. Does it matter? It depends on the role. As an opposite example, I have never classed Thiago Soares as a great technical dancer, but my God he is a wonderful actor, and I remember that much more than whether or not he can jump, land or turn. He is the only Rudolf who has ever made me cry, and his Onegin was also incredibly moving. So whereas I wouldn't go to see him in any of the technical firecracker ballets, I would always go to see him as Rudolf or Onegin. I would always go to see McRae in the firecracker ballets where it's technique that counts, but I wouldn't go to see him in a ballet that requires fine acting. Before I get jumped on, this is my own opinion, is not personal criticism of any dancer, and also explains why I haven't posted in the favourite dancers and ballerinas posts: I very strongly feel that different dancers are good for different roles, and I therefore choose my favourites as to how they are suited for different ballets or styles of choreography.

[Anna C]

I agree, Sim. I would add that I thought Golding did a great job as Siegfried in Swan Lake which - let's be fair - wasn't a role one could do much with in the last production in terms of acting. Likewise in that production I wasn't overly keen on Osipova's Odette whereas her Odile was outstanding.

 

I don't think it's as clearcut as some dancers being "marmite" - surely they all suit different roles but not others? Like Sim, I adored Soares' Onegin and would love to see Golding's performance, but I wasn't moved by Soares' Romeo. Horses for courses and all that.

[capybara]

A dancer mentioned to me the other day that some audience members seem to 'fall so in love' with a dancer that they lose their ability to differentiate his/her wonderful performances from the average and even weak ones. I don't think I'm guilty (well, not yet anyway) but I found it a salutary comment nonetheless - I must be careful 

 

I would also like to say that I am feeling increasingly inhibited on here in terms of posting a personal review which is anything other than laudatory. I returned from the Osipova/Golding Giselle three weeks ago with thoughts that it would have been nice to share but I felt that the wrath of ages would descend on me even if any criticism was balanced with much praise.

[bridiem]

A dancer mentioned to me the other day that some audience members seem to 'fall so in love' with a dancer that they lose their ability to differentiate his/her wonderful performances from the average and even weak ones. I don't think I'm guilty (well, not yet anyway) but I found it a salutary comment nonetheless - I must be careful 

 

I would also like to say that I am feeling increasingly inhibited on here in terms of posting a personal review which is anything other than laudatory. I returned from the Osipova/Golding Giselle three weeks ago with thoughts that it would have been nice to share but I felt that the wrath of ages would descend on me even if any criticism was balanced with much praise.

 

That's a real shame, capybara. I think it all depends on how criticism is expressed - i.e. not cruel, dismissive, destructive or simply rude. I read very few such comments on the forum and ideally there would be none. It's like reviews/critics - there are some reviews that are simply nasty and personal. But thoughtful/appropriately expressed criticism should always be welcomed (even if it's in respect of one's own favourite dancer/s! And even we don't in fact agree with it).

[John Mallinson]

I have sometimes wondered whether it would be possible to set up a system on the forum so that when certain dancers' names are mentioned they could automatically be replaced by ************.

[aileen]

Was the dancer you spoke to referring to his/her own performances, capybara?

[capybara]

Was the dancer you spoke to referring to his/her own performances, capybara?

 

He is not a very famous 'name' and I think that he was mainly reflecting on the performances and audience reactions he sees around him. 

[Jan McNulty]

I think I have mentioned this before but when a group of us went to see Northern Ballet in Aberdeen performing Giselle we saw Jayne Regan in the title role twice.  At a theatre organised event we had the opportunity to chat to her and I mentioned that we had been completely blown away by her Thursday performance.  She commented that she had been a lot better on Tuesday and she had not been feeling that good on the Thursday.

 

How dancers perceive their performance and how the audience sees it can be two totally different perspectives.  In my experience too, dancers are always seeking perfection in their performances but, in their own opinion, they never achieve it.

[Sim]

A dancer mentioned to me the other day that some audience members seem to 'fall so in love' with a dancer that they lose their ability to differentiate his/her wonderful performances from the average and even weak ones. I don't think I'm guilty (well, not yet anyway) but I found it a salutary comment nonetheless - I must be careful 

 

I would also like to say that I am feeling increasingly inhibited on here in terms of posting a personal review which is anything other than laudatory. I returned from the Osipova/Golding Giselle three weeks ago with thoughts that it would have been nice to share but I felt that the wrath of ages would descend on me even if any criticism was balanced with much praise.

 

You should not feel that way, Capybara, and it bothers me that you do. Go ahead and constructively criticise. If anyone isn't man/woman enough to deal with it, then so be it. If people take criticism of a dancer they like personally, or as a personal insult to the dancer, then they should only be on fan forums, not ones such as this where ALL points of view are welcomed. We moderators feel very strongly that EVERYONE should be able to voice their opinions about ANY dancer, be those opinions positive or negative, WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING JUMPED ON by other posters. Anyone who disagrees with you is likewise free to disagree, but backed up with cogent opinion, not knee-jerk reaction.

 

Everybody should rest assured that you can express your opinions on here (as long as those opinions are expressed within the bounds of our AUP) without fear of being ripped to pieces. After the Osipova debacle in December we promised that we would be very vigilant about this kind of thing, and so we will be. When we set up this forum, we wanted it to be a place of lively debate, not just a fan site. Be in no doubt that if anyone posts up an opinion and they get disrespect for having done so, we will take immediate steps to stop it.

 

I for one would be very happy to hear your views on that Giselle, Capybara...unless you feel the moment has gone!

[alison]

Hear, hear.

[SPD444]

Well said, Sim. I like a good arguement as long as it doesn't finish up insulting folk.

[Jamesrhblack]

"How dancers perceive their performance and how the audience sees it can be two totally different perspectives.  In my experience too, dancers are always seeking perfection in their performances but, in their own opinion, they never achieve it."

 

​I remember from my own professional days (I sang rather than danced) that such a response is sometimes a knee-jerk to counter balance any embarrassment at praise - not all artists are very good at taking compliments. A colleague did once rebuke me for making such a response though saying that it wasn't necessarily courteous to the audience member who had liked what they had heard (or seen) and that a simple "thank you" could be more appropriate. 

[alison]

How dancers perceive their performance and how the audience sees it can be two totally different perspectives.  In my experience too, dancers are always seeking perfection in their performances but, in their own opinion, they never achieve it.

I read an interview, I think with Stuart Cassidy, many moons ago in which he said something to the effect that if he ever did the perfect performance he might as well give up, because he'd never be able to achieve it again. And various have said that there's no point in trying to compete against others, they can only try and better their previous performances.

I sometimes suspect that a dancer's assessement of his/her performance probably concentrates on execution, i.e. "I didn't land X properly/messed up Y/I did Z better the other night", while possibly not allowing for the fact that, "errors" aside, the overall impression to the audience may have been affected not one jot, or that, regardless, they took the audience e.g. on an emotional journey which elevated the performance beyond previous ones.

[capybara]

You should not feel that way, Capybara, and it bothers me that you do. Go ahead and constructively criticise. If anyone isn't man/woman enough to deal with it, then so be it. If people take criticism of a dancer they like personally, or as a personal insult to the dancer, then they should only be on fan forums, not ones such as this where ALL points of view are welcomed. We moderators feel very strongly that EVERYONE should be able to voice their opinions about ANY dancer, be those opinions positive or negative, WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING JUMPED ON by other posters. Anyone who disagrees with you is likewise free to disagree, but backed up with cogent opinion, not knee-jerk reaction.

 

Everybody should rest assured that you can express your opinions on here (as long as those opinions are expressed within the bounds of our AUP) without fear of being ripped to pieces. After the Osipova debacle in December we promised that we would be very vigilant about this kind of thing, and so we will be. When we set up this forum, we wanted it to be a place of lively debate, not just a fan site. Be in no doubt that if anyone posts up an opinion and they get disrespect for having done so, we will take immediate steps to stop it.

 

I for one would be very happy to hear your views on that Giselle, Capybara...unless you feel the moment has gone!

 

Thank you for this, Sim. The moment had passed but, in the circumstances, I felt that the least I could do was to 'give it a try'. So I am just about to post something on the Giselle thread.

[FLOSS]

I  think that we have to remember that we tend to write about the aspects of performances which interest us. Unlike the straight theatre where the audience attends a performance to see a play and the actors' performances in their allotted roles rather than to admire their technical skills some ballet goers attend performances because they are interested in ballet as theatre, some for the technical skills displayed in performance and others for a combination of the two elements. Those who regard ballet as a theatrical art form in which technique is a means to an end and not an end in itself are likely to be disappointed by a performance in which the dancers seem more concerned with the perfect execution of classroom steps than with the creation of mood and character or the  choreographer's performance style. Someone fascinated by the technical aspects of dancing  may be happy with such a performance as long as it is technically strong. Those who want both theatre and technique will like some of the performers admired by those firmly in the theatrical art form camp and some admired by the technician camp. I think this goes a long way to explain the range of views expressed about a dancer's performance in a particular ballet on a particular day. We see different things in performance  because we look  for different things.

[Nina G.]

I would like to see Yasmine Naghdi and Beatriz Stix-Brunell join Frankie Hayward as First Soloists.

 

Matthew Ball from First Artist to Soloist or even, in a perfect dream world, First Soloist (so that he can start dancing the roles that could lead to Principal).

 

Agree with Ruth; Anna-Rose O'Sullivan and Reece Clarke to First Artist.

 

Alexander Campbell from First Soloist to Principal. Perhaps Yuhui Choe to accompany him as they are such a delightful partnership.

 

 

 

There is a small group of outstanding Soloists at the RB I love watching but I agree with SIM, Yasmine Naghdi, and also Stix-Brunell, are the all-round stand-out Soloists who in my opinion deserve promotion to First Soloist. I also love Kaneko but I don't feel she is ready yet to go up a rank.

Certainly Ball to Soloist, and some of the very young Artists to First Artists. Magri also impressed this Season

[Timmie]

...Magri also impressed this Season

 

Indeed. It seems that once you notice a dancer in something you keep noticing them again and again.

[Nina G.]

The last ballet of Season 2015-16, the Triple Bill "Obsidian Tear/The Invitation/Within the Golden Hour" opens next week and I am really looking forward to seeing both casts in Macmillan's "The Invitation".

 

Promotion time must be hanging over the dancers' heads like a dagger by now and I wish them the very best! They are all great artists in their own right but some just do stand out far and above for various reasons.

 

Wishing them all a happy and great end to the Season. 

[capybara]

Having now seen a rehearsal for The Invitation and the pictures online, I think that the following promotions are on the cards:

 

Akane Takada to Principal (much as I love them and would be so happy to be proved wrong, I sense that this is not going to happen for Yuhui Choe and Alexander Campbell and Francesca Hayward and James Hay only became First Soloists last year)

 

Yasmine Naghdi to First Soloist (but I would also like to see Beatrix Stix-Brunell and Fumi Kaneko promoted to this level; I haven't yet seen Claire Calvert as Hermione)

 

Matthew Ball (and possibly Tomas Mock) to Soloist (although Matthew could readily jump to First Soloist); Mayara Magri also has a strong claim to such a promotion but maybe next year

 

Reece Clarke and Anna-Rose O'Sullivan (definitely), Isabella Gasparini and Benjamin Ella (probably) and David Donnelly (possibly) to First Artist

 

 

Fingers crossed for them and good wishes to everyone at what must be a difficult time of year.

[SPD444]

Given that Yasmine and Beatrix have been dancing the same roles as Frankie I would guess that it indicates there are plans to promote them. I watched Claire dance Hermione recently and she made a very good fist of it, as did Christina Arestis dancing Paulina. Olivia Cowley has been given more of a chance recently, unless my memory is playing tricks. I saw her at the recent BA visit to watch a rehearsal in the Clore where they were doing the Invitation, she looked really good in that.

 

It must be very hard to meet the dancers hopes and expectations when there is so much talent to choose from.

[Fonty]

Is First Artist what used to be called Coryphee?  What would someone promoted to FA normally be expected to dance? 

[Nina G.]

Yes, a First Artist or Coryphee (a term used in France, Russia,..) is a leading or senior/more experienced Corps de Ballet member. Usually an Artist showing potential will after 2,3,4 sometimes more years become a First Artist. They will start getting opportunities to dance minor soloist roles, usually in a group of 3 or 4 soloists. 

 

The same for Soloists: the best Soloists will gradually get opportunities to dance Principal roles, followed by promotion to First Soloist.

[loveclassics]

Yes, a First Artist or Coryphee (a term used in France, Russia,..) is a leading or senior/more experienced Corps de Ballet member. Usually an Artist showing potential will after 2,3,4 sometimes more years become a First Artist.

I'm pretty sure that the term was also in use in the UK.  I have some old RB programmes dating from the 70s & 80s which list coryphees and I think the touring company (SWRB then) also used it describe dancers one rank up from artists (or corps de ballet).  I must find them again and see how many of them went on to Principal rank.

 

Linda

[alison]

It was definitely used when I started going to the RB.  Can't remember when they dropped it.

[Geoff]

Not to be silly but exactly how useful is it to have so many different grades? An outside observer might see how the "hidden control" (as the Left or some sociologists might characterise this) provided by keeping almost everyone in a company on tenterhooks about their place on a ladder of many small steps - but just how many grades of performer are actually required for the smooth running of a classical company?

 

One analogy might perhaps be with the armed forces, where some levels of seniority seem to be there just so that troops can be motivated and/or rewarded and/or punished by promotion, the promise of promotion, and the witholding of promotion.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Geoff

[GTL]

I suppose it relates to salary as well as responsibilities, all but the smallest organisations have formal pay grades. If there is a pay freeze, "promotion" is the only way to award an increase. Plus, it keeps the Human Resources department occupied.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Grand Tier Left

[Nina G.]

Not to be silly but exactly how useful is it to have so many different grades? An outside observer might see how the "hidden control" (as the Left or some sociologists might characterise this) provided by keeping almost everyone in a company on tenterhooks about their place on a ladder of many small steps - but just how many grades of performer are actually required for the smooth running of a classical company?

 

One analogy might perhaps be with the armed forces, where some levels of seniority seem to be there just so that troops can be motivated and/or rewarded and/or punished by promotion, the promise of promotion, and the witholding of promotion.

 

 

I think the various ranks (or different grades as you call it) are very useful. The skills, technic,... of a Soloist or First Soloist and ultimately a Principal are on a much higher level than those of a Corps de Ballet member and that is rewarded within the ranking system, also resulting in a higher salary.

Some dancers are more ambitious, they work harder, they are more talented, they have a better technic, more stage presence, they are under more pressure at times taking over roles at very short notice without much of a rehearsal (not every dancer is capable of doing so) and their talent needs to be rewarded via promotion to a higher rank.

The ranking system is there to recognise their seniority, talent and years of experience.

[zxDaveM]

also, the jump up from soloist to first soloist means no more corps work (as well as a pay rise!). Plus more opportunities to do principal roles, though not always the case of course.

[Fonty]

Yes, I can remember the RB using the word Coryphee as well.  I think it was still in use in the 80s.  I rather like the term.

[Fiz]

One of our dds ballet teachers was a coryphee with the Royal Ballet in the late 1950s and early 60s. That was when I first heard the term.