Royal Ballet - Swan Lake 2024

[Sim]

2 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

Not the way I look at it.

The soliloquy between Acts 1&2 is gorgeous, his Act 3 variation can be spectacular. The rest is partnering an Odette or an Odile who completely obscures Siegfried from view for much of the time.

@Mary’s version (see above) would sort the dancing issue for me nicely. But not the ending 🤔

 

I agree.  I don't remember ever having seen a version of SL in the past 60 years where Siegfried has less to do than he does here!!

[Mary]

12 minutes ago, San Perregrino said:

As far as costumes go, I’d get rid of all black tights and shoes. A lot of the choreography especially in Act 3 is lost to view because black blends in to the richness of the Palace background rather than standing out. What’s the point of making all that effort for the audience not to be able to the skill involved? 

Thanks for reminding me- I left black tights off my list and Siegfried's black tights against black floor are indeed very annoying and absurd when we all want to see his legs so much.

[Sim]

Just now, Mary said:

Thanks for reminding me- I left black tights off my list and Siegfried's black tights against black floor are indeed very annoying and absurd when we all want to see his legs so much.

I have been griping about black tights in ballet for years.  I seem to remember that Nureyev tried to avoid them as often as possible as he wanted everyone to see his legs (but of course!).

[San Perregrino]

11 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

Not the way I look at it.

The soliloquy between Acts 1&2 is gorgeous, his Act 3 variation can be spectacular. The rest is partnering an Odette or an Odile who completely obscures Siegfried from view for much of the time.

@Mary’s version (see above) would sort the dancing issue for me nicely. But not the ending 🤔

 

As I said he’s got a lot to do once out of the starting gate. Partnering is dancing surely as it’s integral to the choreography? 

Another random thought is, in an era where obviously great store is given to chaperoning princesses and young women, why is Odile allowed to disappear alone with Siegfried running off after her and what could the pair of them possibly be doing together out of sight of their elders? 

[Dawnstar]

In terms of Siegfried not having as much to do as he could, apart from the ending the other part that annoys me is that he doesn't get a solo as part of the Act II pdd. I would much rather he had a solo either just before or just after Odette's & cut out the swans who occupy that space (in fact if I had a free hand with Swan Lake I'd be cutting out a lot of swans in general!). Though I assume that one is down to Tchaikovsky or Petipa or both rather than Scarlett.

[Kerfuffle]

I think the reason is that in the tradition of classical ballet format the Swan Lake grand pas de deux is between Odile and Siegfried in Act 3. This is when you get pas de deux, his variation, her variation then the coda. So Siegfried’s solo is saved until that act.

[Kerfuffle]

Just to add I think from an emotional story telling point of view Siegfried’s solo is one of triumph, the thinks he’s got his girl and is going to marry her. Before that he’s winning her trust and maybe a solo there would feel a bit strange as it’s so much about Odette’s internal struggles. When we saw Vadim he really communicated his joy at having won over Odile, oblivious of how he had been tricked. This makes the ballet properly tragic in act 4. Of course Marianela made a heartbreaking Odette too. 

[Balletfanp]

In the Nureyev version, Siegfried does get a solo in Act 1 (plus a lot of extra dancing all over the place - well, couldn’t have Nureyev sidelined!). The Act 1 solo was a bit jaunty and didn’t really work for me in the context of the rest of the Act - it was as though Nureyev was determined to shove Siegfried in whatever! That’s the version with (for me) the rather bewildering ending in Act IV where Odette drifts off with Von Rothbart as Siegfried quietly drowns - I think that’s infinitely worse than the Scarlett ending! 😁

[Missfrankiecat]

1 hour ago, San Perregrino said:

As I said he’s got a lot to do once out of the starting gate. Partnering is dancing surely as it’s integral to the choreography? 

Another random thought is, in an era where obviously great store is given to chaperoning princesses and young women, why is Odile allowed to disappear alone with Siegfried running off after her and what could the pair of them possibly be doing together out of sight of their elders? 

I always think that too - they are off alone for a long time.  Of course, in reality they are limbering up for the big climax!

[Fonty]

18 minutes ago, Balletfanp said:

In the Nureyev version, Siegfried does get a solo in Act 1 (plus a lot of extra dancing all over the place - well, couldn’t have Nureyev sidelined!). The Act 1 solo was a bit jaunty and didn’t really work for me in the context of the rest of the Act - it was as though Nureyev was determined to shove Siegfried in whatever! That’s the version with (for me) the rather bewildering ending in Act IV where Odette drifts off with Von Rothbart as Siegfried quietly drowns - I think that’s infinitely worse than the Scarlett ending! 😁

 

Ah, must have been that one I was thinking of when I mentioned it above.  I don't think Von Rothbard should win, a bit surprised Nureyev would do that.  However, it did give him a bit of extra stage time as he sank beneath the waves......

[Emeralds]

Funnily enough, the Royal Ballet's Swan Lakes have had Siegfried in black tights for Act 3 from as far back as the late 1970s (at least!) till now - in the Ashton/Morrice, Dowell and Scarlett productions. But Siegfried has been visible in the two older versions.

 

The difference has been the lighting and the set- this has been the darkest set and lighting we've had. I've been able to see Siegfried easily in the others but this one is really dark. (And I don't think our eyesight collectively deteriorated dramatically between 2015 to 2018!) Even if you watch the Act 3 pas de deux on DVDs of the 3 productions on the same day, the current production is too dark.

 

Perhaps they could reposition some courtiers further back and more centrally to add a bit of light colour to the background!

[Mary]

56 minutes ago, Balletfanp said:

In the Nureyev version, Siegfried does get a solo in Act 1 (plus a lot of extra dancing all over the place - well, couldn’t have Nureyev sidelined!). The Act 1 solo was a bit jaunty and didn’t really work for me in the context of the rest of the Act - it was as though Nureyev was determined to shove Siegfried in whatever! That’s the version with (for me) the rather bewildering ending in Act IV where Odette drifts off with Von Rothbart as Siegfried quietly drowns - I think that’s infinitely worse than the Scarlett ending! 😁

I've seen a Russian company's production with Siegfried drowning- years ago, I can't remember who it was, but I'm afraid the sight of a very bouffant wig slowly bobbing about just above the cardboard waves then disappearing was very funny and ruined the ending...

[Kerfuffle]

There is also a happy ending Russian version (Mariinsky maybe) where Siegfried fights and wins against Rothbart, whose wing he pulls off. Odette and  Siegfried are subsequently reunited. It kind of makes sense with the music , the ethereal harp and then final orchestral finish. 
Typical Nureyev to add solos in for himself - his Romeo and Juliet also switches the emphasis to the men as far as I recall! 

[JNC]

3 hours ago, Mary said:

I've seen a Russian company's production with Siegfried drowning- years ago, I can't remember who it was, but I'm afraid the sight of a very bouffant wig slowly bobbing about just above the cardboard waves then disappearing was very funny and ruined the ending...

This reminds me of the DVD production of Nureyev/Fonteyn which I believe is Nureyev choreography with the Vienna Opera ballet/orchestra. Lots to commend and enjoy about this performance but Nureyev at the end flinging himself up and down around a massive piece of fabric (“the lake”) I simply could not take seriously and ruined the tragic/dramatic ending.

 

For reference I’m in agreement re:

- get rid of black tights for Siegfried in Act 3 (and or improve lighting / change floor colour)

- More dancing for Siegfried, particularly Act 1 (feels like Benno gets a lot more in certain parts at least, not against extra opportunities for male dancers but it’s odd Benno seems to dance more certainly in Act 1 and even in Act 3 I feel it’s equally matched?) 

- I don’t like the ending where Odile turns back into a human. Partially because logical me can’t suspend disbelief as I know it’s not the dancer we’ve seen as Odile due to the tutu costume change and hair obscuring the face. Also does Siegfried throw himself into the lake to get her body? Or does it wash up on shore? I prefer the ones where they both throw themselves off the rock/into the lake (this can come with or without the reunion in the afterlife). Either way I think they should both die. Siegfried left alive feels a bit similar to Giselle or La Bayadere to me. Masculine stereotype or not I expect him to fight VR and die in the process, or be overcome with grief about Odile losing and how he broke his promise to her (sort of unintentionally but still) he doesn’t see the point in living anymore (similar to Romeo/Juliet). 
- not other ending but I don’t enjoy the prologue as I find it unnecessary (and again the use of two obviously different people just ruins it for me). Most people know the story of swan lake anyway but Odile also explains what happened in the mime scene! 
 

Pros of this production for me do outweigh a large part of Dowell’s - which while choreographically sound (from memory and I’ve only watched the DVD and haven’t seen it live) I couldn’t take it seriously as I didn’t enjoy the sets and costumes at all. And while more authentic the use of the original Act 4 music just feels like it’s missing an element of dramatic tension in the resolution. The new sets and costumes are fantastic, I do like the Benno role addition (though he shouldn’t overshadow Siegfried!) and Act 3 is pretty much perfect for me (I’ll be honest and say I find Act 1 a bit dull, this could be solved by giving Siegfried more dancing I think). 

[alison]

5 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Funnily enough, the Royal Ballet's Swan Lakes have had Siegfried in black tights for Act 3 from as far back as the late 1970s (at least!) till now - in the Ashton/Morrice, Dowell and Scarlett productions. But Siegfried has been visible in the two older versions.

 

The difference has been the lighting and the set- this has been the darkest set and lighting we've had. I've been able to see Siegfried easily in the others

 

Really?  I haven't in the Dowell production (haven't seen any earlier ones).  Obviously it will depend on where you sit what background the legs are merging with, but I certainly had trouble with Siegfried in his Act I/II dark blue costume (and there was one live relay, I think to Big Screens, so notoriously dark anyway, with Carlos Acosta in the lead and you could barely see him at all).  A similar problem with Onegin (Kobborg, I think?) in the mirror scene.  But Act III in the Dowell production often gave me problems.

[FionaM]

It’s been interesting to read the varied reactions to the ending of the RB’s current version versus the previous one.  

 

I’ve been reflecting on the version I first saw and grew up with in Cape Town (I don’t know whose choreography it was).  In that one Siegfried and Odette fight Von Rothbart together breaking one of his wings.  He then dies which breaks the spell and they are united as humans.   
 

I was subsequently shocked by the ‘both die’ version of RB when I first saw it.   And then I read up about different endings.  
 

I’m therefore not disappointed now by any ending.  Indeed when I go to a new version it is an intriguing anticipation for me.  How will this version end?  
 

I particularly like the emotional pdd that Liam added to this act.  The rehearsal of Liam with Marianela and Vadim was the most inspiring insight, revealing Liam’s intelligence in conveying his intentions to the dancers, and in showing his own dancing abilities. Sigh.

 

i also like the swans corps overcoming Rothbart, with their backs to the audience.  Very effective.  
 

And yes Siegfried is a flawed man duped by Odile and Rothbart. That’s real life right there! 

[alison]

4 minutes ago, FionaM said:

i also like the swans corps overcoming Rothbart, with their backs to the audience.  Very effective. 

 

That's not so uncommon, actually, to some extent or other.

[Geoff]

On 13/04/2024 at 13:53, Jake said:

As aspects of the ending seem so universally disliked, is there any chance that it could be revised one day, or is the choreographer’s ‘vision’ sacrosanct?
With whom would the ‘copyright’ lie, I wonder? Liam Scarlett’s heirs, or the RB which commissioned the version?

Good question Jake. If I might be allowed to refer back to some comments I made a few weeks ago, perhaps this is relevant:

 

https://www.balletcoforum.com/topic/29265-royal-ballet-swan-lake-2024/?do=findComment&comment=437074

 

[Sim]

There’s a lovely interview with Yasmine Naghdi in today’s Times, wherein she discusses (amongst other things) what it’s like to dance Swan Lake on a live broadcast, and the technical challenges of the role of Odette/Odile.  See today’s links…the article is there with a share token so is accessible to all.  She has also posted it on Instagram.

[capybara]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

There’s a lovely interview with Yasmine Naghdi in today’s Times, wherein she discusses (amongst other things) what it’s like to dance Swan Lake on a live broadcast, and the technical challenges of the role of Odette/Odile.  See today’s links…the article is there with a share token so is accessible to all.  She has also posted it on Instagram.

Great that Yasmine is featured in this way. Along with other RB stars in their thirties she does not get enough coverage to cement her in the public mind as a really great dancer.

[Roberta]

4 hours ago, Sim said:

There’s a lovely interview with Yasmine Naghdi in today’s Times, wherein she discusses (amongst other things) what it’s like to dance Swan Lake on a live broadcast, and the technical challenges of the role of Odette/Odile.  See today’s links…the article is there with a share token so is accessible to all.  She has also posted it on Instagram.

 

Small aside, short film of Yasmine Naghdi talking to Royal Ballet School students and book signing. If you're quick there's a screen of her photos from when she was very young! Sweet.

 

Worth remembering she was turned down at first attempt at While Lodge entry. Persistence pays. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Candleque]

5 hours ago, Sim said:

There’s a lovely interview with Yasmine Naghdi in today’s Times, wherein she discusses (amongst other things) what it’s like to dance Swan Lake on a live broadcast, and the technical challenges of the role of Odette/Odile.  See today’s links…the article is there with a share token so is accessible to all.  She has also posted it on Instagram.

Great to see Yasmine in this feature article. Thank you for the share token 🙏

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, Roberta said:

Worth remembering she was turned down at first attempt at While Lodge entry. Persistence pays

Wow, hope for me yet then? 😂

[Roberta]

39 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Wow, hope for me yet then? 😂

 

Never say never.  Go buy those tights. 

[Rachelm]

I was on a backstage tour at the ROH on Tuesday, when fortune smiled on me and we happened upon Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball rehearsing the Black Swan pas de deux. She was even wearing her black tutu! It was so beautiful to watch even for those few short minutes. I will be watching them live on Saturday afternoon and am so excited! (Incidentally Mayara Magri, Marcelino Sambe, and Reece Clarke casually walked past us. And we saw Darcey Bussell too. I would like to say I was cool as a cucumber, but I was totally starstruck!)

Edited April 17 by Rachelm

[Sim]

11 minutes ago, Rachelm said:

I was on a backstage tour at the ROH on Tuesday, when fortune smiled on me and we happened upon Yasmine Naghdi and Matthew Ball rehearsing the Black Swan pas de deux. She was even wearing her black tutu! It was so beautiful to watch even for those few short minutes. I will be watching them live on Saturday afternoon and am so excited! (Incidentally Mayara Magri, Marcelino Sambe, and Reece Clarke casually walked past us. And we saw Darcey Bussell too. I would like to say I was cool as a cucumber, but I was totally starstruck!)

I will be there tonight and on Saturday afternoon and I cannot wait to see these two dance together again, especially in this ballet.

[Sim]

17 hours ago, Roberta said:

 

Never say never.  Go buy those tights. 

And then take a photo and share it with the group! 

 

[LinMM]

Hee hee perhaps all those on the Forum who’ve had White Lodge ambitions at some point should do the same! 

[Roberta]

 Adults who take up ballet are not that rare!  See the 'Doing Dance' forum for inspiration! 

 

 

[zxDaveM]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

And then take a photo and share it with the group! 

 

 

😳

[Sim]

Well that was one sensational performance from Yasmine Naghdi.  I need to bring myself back down to Earth…so more tomorrow.  

[capybara]

15 minutes ago, Sim said:

Well that was one sensational performance from Yasmine Naghdi.  I need to bring myself back down to Earth…so more tomorrow.  

Yes please.🦢

[JohnS]

A hugely enjoyable evening and many congratulations to Yasmine Naghdi, Matthew Ball, and the corps. I thought their performance irresistible and with a bit more precision in some supporting roles, I think we’re in for a cinema relay treat.
 

It was very good to see Yasmine and Matt at the stage door and with dancers ever striving for perfection there was talk of further polishing/refinement from them. For my part, I’d happily settle for a repeat performance. What really impressed me was that they both seemed absolutely in time with the music and convincing in the roles.

 

I know there’s been a fair bit of criticism of Siegfried’s role in Act 4 but I wonder if there’s a bit of exaggeration? Siegfried is knocked out by Von Rothbart at exactly the same time as Odette’s fatal leap so it’s too late for him to save Odette. But he has resisted Von Rothbart up to the time of Odette’s sacrifice. I accept it’s very much Swan power that overcomes Von Rothbart but I’m more than happy with that. And I’ve always been touched by Odette’s spirit offering protection/solace to Siegfried in the closing moments: even if Siegfried isn’t conscious of Odette’s spirit, the audience (albeit those who can see Odette’s spirit) can think that in time Siegfried will appreciate and ultimately accept Odette’s blessing.