Royal Ballet - Swan Lake 2024

[Roberta]

3 hours ago, RobR said:

I stand to be corrected but I think this present run has had artists, first artists, soloists and first soloists dancing these princess cameos 

 

Yes, it is at least a wonderful opportunity to dress up in their best, pout suggestively and cast shade on the others! 

 

Here I am look at my overload of sequins choose ME!  All rather a cattle market isn't it? I suppose it balances out (pun there) Aurora and her parading suitors.

 

It's an odd way to find a spouse. 

 

 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Scheherezade said:

I think that Reece Clarke answered this potentially thorny little matter rather effectively last night by visibly starting at Von Rothbart’s prostrate form draped over the rock, inducing him to check the area behind.

I was thinking during yesterday’s matinee that I am sure the girls’ arms used to point towards the lake as Siegfried wakes up, but they don’t seem to now. Maybe I am mistaken because I think that is what should happen so might have simply imagined it!  🤔

[zxDaveM]

4 hours ago, RobR said:

In the SL version prior to this present version (was it Dowell or Makarova) the dancing princesses performed a pas de six. There was minimal acting and the subsequent National Dances appeared a little random given the apparent lack of connection/context with the six dancing princesses. 
 

 

 

Six princesses turning up to the ball all wearing the same dress...FIGHT!!!

[zxDaveM]

38 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

It's an odd way to find a spouse. 

 

 

That's royalty for you

[Geoff]

7 hours ago, Buru said:

I see that most posts on the forum are written in superlatives which is fine but makes it a bit one sided.

Yes one function of this site is as an outlet for fanboys/girls, relatives and friends as well as enthusiastic newbies, to show their appreciation, and this is all well and good.
 

But that might get a little boring if this was all there was to read so thankfully you will also find objective criticism by experts and those with long experience, up to and including comments by dancers, choreographers, critics and others with professional experience, and even some academic scholarship. So please, keep watching keenly and sharing your opinions, negative as well as positive. For example I for one do not share the general view, sometimes expressed, that dancers these days are so much better than they used to be, or that all the RB does is wonderful.

[DVDfan]

Two things:- Critical posts are an important way in which I learn about ballet from this site, and the only issue I have with them is that they are sometimes expressed with too much vigour and too little detail. So please, keep them coming, but just do the exam question thing and justify the comments!  

Posts that praise a performance in superlative tones are nice to hear, but without similar justification...well, that's all that they are.

 

The other thing is that the princesses in Swan Lake don't make much sense in a 19th century setting because what is really going on is actually a medieval Russian bride parade. The Tsars didn't make arranged marriages with the daughters of foreign royalty until the 18th century. Before that all the unmarried Russian ladies of suitable rank were called to the court and inspected by the prince, who then chose one. This resulted in a surprising number of happy marriages, rather more than the later political arranged unions.

[zxDaveM]

12 hours ago, Buru said:

Well, not exactly that. I meant real solo dances, in which each bride gets to shine and showcase her talents. Again, I didn’t mind this interpretation and each culture was well presented in Act III dances, which is what counts. 

 

I think that the potential brides being so 'inconsequential' (especially to the Prince), is rather the point

[Sim]

With my moderator's hat on, I would like to emphasise (as I have many, many times over the years) that this is not a fan site, and that all comments and criticism are welcome (as long as they don't breach AUP).  I disagree that 'most comments on this site are written with superlatives.'  Some are, some aren't.  One just has to read this Swan Lake thread to see many comments that are not exactly positive.  

 

I think we should also remember that not everyone who posts on this site has English as a first language, and sometimes they might use English words in such a way that native speakers would not.  Please cut them some slack.  

 

There are many people on the site who have been watching ballet/dance avidly for many decades, and have a profound understanding and admiration for the art form.  They may not be academics or directly involved in ballet, but they often outclass the professional writers and others with their insights.  

 

I would also add that the voices of the 'fanboys/girls, relatives and newbies' are just as welcome and as important as everyone else's.

[DVDfan]

If it wouldn't be inappropriate, Sim, can I add this comment?

 

Over several years of reading this forum I have come to realise that people have different expectations of a ballet performance. For some, technical excellence is of paramount importance. For others, it is the emotional experience that matters. For many, it is the visual impact of a visual art that counts, but for a few, the music is paramount. Others want a good night out at the theatre, and so on, and so on.

Thus a performance that moves one audience member to tears by its dramatic impact may attract quite a bit of technical criticism from another. Yet another viewer may feel that the plot is peculiar or costumes distracting to the  point of failure etc, etc...

 

No one is wrong, they are just judging on different criteria.  

[San Perregrino]

19 minutes ago, Sim said:

There are many people on the site who have been watching ballet/dance avidly for many decades, and have a profound understanding and admiration for the art form.  They may not be academics or directly involved in ballet, but they often outclass the professional writers and others with their insights.

and, might I be so bold as to suggest that, once upon a time, the people who might now consider themselves to belong to the above categories might well have started out as ‘fanboys/girls, relatives and newbies' , their enthusiasm and curiosity for ballet subsequently engaging them so they added to their experience and knowledge over the course of time. 
IMHO an opinion is just an opinion. an interesting opinion is supported by rationale. the opinion of a fanboy/girl is equally as valid as that of someone who has spent a lifetime watching and studying something provided that the context is given. 

[Sim]

5 minutes ago, DVDfan said:

If it wouldn't be inappropriate, Sim, can I add this comment?

 

Over several years of reading this forum I have come to realise that people have different expectations of a ballet performance. For some, technical excellence is of paramount importance. For others, it is the emotional experience that matters. For many, it is the visual impact of a visual art that counts, but for a few, the music is paramount. Others want a good night out at the theatre, and so on, and so on.

Thus a performance that moves one audience member to tears by its dramatic impact may attract quite a bit of technical criticism from another. Yet another viewer may feel that the plot is peculiar or costumes distracting to the  point of failure etc, etc...

 

No one is wrong, they are just judging on different criteria.  

Exactly.  Art of any form is subjective;  there is no right or wrong.  

[Lindsay]

14 hours ago, Buru said:

Apologies, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful. You are right that I meant that the cygnets were not bouncy enough, which is all about technique, not the weight. 
 

By “disaster” I meant that the big swans were not in sync and their jumps were very slow; and that emotionally this was a low point of the afternoon for me personally. 
 

I stated at the beginning of my post that I actually enjoyed the performance and found it interesting to compare with my previous experience of other productions. It was not perfect or the best I have seen, but it had many nice moments.
 

By no means I purport to claim that I have seen as much as late Clement Crisp or have any similar expertise. Ballet is my passion and there were times when I went to see Swan Lake three times a week and cried in Act II as it was so perfect it hurt. But I do appreciate that it cannot happen often and still go and try to find new nuances and look for smaller details I like. I clearly identified that in yesterday’s performance these were the dialogue between Odette and Siegfried and Jo Jun as Benno. 

 

I see that most posts on the forum are written in superlatives which is fine but makes it a bit one sided. Though I appreciate that as Sim said, for each their own. Will keep it to myself going forward. 

I didn’t see Saturday’s performance Buru but saw the same cast on Wednesday - I posted about the lead performances but not in detail about the supporting cast partly because I shared the same disappointment as you, particularly with the Big Swans who were not in sync and frankly looked tired and lacking any elevation in the jumps.  I had some sympathy for the cygnets because there was a last minute unannounced cast change and the heights and spacing looked off but I assumed that was down to not having rehearsed as a team.  The conductor also took their dance very fast (by contrast to one of Siegfried’s sisters in Act 1 who seemed thrown by an unusually slow tempo).  So I gave the benefit of the doubt to all concerned - but will be interested to see how this cast goes in the cinema relay.  Other than Jun as Benno, I would have thought there were some stronger casting choices that could have been made for soloists in such a public event 

Edited April 22 by Lindsay
Typo

[alison]

13 hours ago, Buru said:

I see that most posts on the forum are written in superlatives which is fine but makes it a bit one sided. 

 

I wouldn't say superlatives, although I would agree that there are probably a lot more (very?) positive than (very?) negative comments on the forum, and some posters probably have quite a recognisable way of using words.  But everything comes from an individual poster's reaction to a performance, so if they want to post about a performance which made them go Wow!, but not one about which they were lukewarm, or even disliked, I guess it's understandable.  Different criteria, as DVDFan says.

[alison]

2 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

 

I think that the potential brides being so 'inconsequential' (especially to the Prince), is rather the point

 

9 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

 

Six princesses turning up to the ball all wearing the same dress...FIGHT!!!

 

I've always thought the "same dress" aspect (were they all identical, or just very similar?) was a reflection of your first post, Dave.  They might as well be identikit to Siegfried, because he's not interested in any of them.  Equally (and this applies e.g. to a former ENB/LFB production, where less-experienced dancers were sometimes cast initially as either Odette or Odile only), we need to see that Odette and Odile appear to the prince to be the same person, regardless of whether we the audience see them differently.

[Lindsay]

I do also find myself wondering a bit these days if regular RB goers were spoiled at the 'soloist' (i.e. in the sense of soloist roles rather than actual ranking) level a few years ago, when there were so many clear principals-in-waiting at that level and newly minted principals were still dancing soloist roles.  It felt as though, even when not seeing the opening night case, one was almost guaranteed a technically secure, musical performance in key solos.  First soloist cohorts of the quality of Kaneko, Magri and O'Sullivan don't come along all that often and I think Calvert's absence on maternity leave has perhaps highlighted the need for reinforcement at that level (although credit to Gasparini for covering almost everything and doing it beautifully!).  It will be interesting to see which of the very technically strong cohort of young dancers currently at artist and first artist level can turn their skills into consistent soloist performances across different roles.

[Geoff]

2 hours ago, DVDfan said:

Over several years of reading this forum I have come to realise that people have different expectations of a ballet performance. For some, technical excellence is of paramount importance. For others, it is the emotional experience that matters. For many, it is the visual impact of a visual art that counts, but for a few, the music is paramount. Others want a good night out at the theatre, and so on, and so on.

Thus a performance that moves one audience member to tears by its dramatic impact may attract quite a bit of technical criticism from another. Yet another viewer may feel that the plot is peculiar or costumes distracting to the  point of failure etc, etc...

 

Wonderfully - and succinctly - put @DVDfan (to use a superlative). Thank you!

 

Edited April 22 by Geoff

[JNC]

@Lindsay I agree that we had a few “golden years” just before the pandemic when we had first soloists with the calibre of Kaneko, Magri, O’Sullivan etc. 

 

This chimed with when I started to regularly attend ROH so I perhaps took it a little for granted at the time. Now I look back thinking I was spoiled with such casts (and the pricing back then!).

 

I think the RB is still an incredibly strong company across the ranks but I admit no one has really caught my eye at (first) soloist level the way Kaneko, O’Sullivan, Magri did on the female side to be honest. This is probably because I attend fewer performances now, and I also appreciate the pandemic years probably had some sort of impact. And I definitely think the talent is there - I think Gaspirani may be the one I would say comes closest - she really impressed me in Danses Concertantes recently. And Annette Buvoli and Ashley Dean are also a few that have caught my eye. On the male side of course Sissens and Hay (since Bracewell and Clarke have now been promoted). But (in my non technical opinion) I don’t think they’re quite principal level yet, although I’m sure many of them might be in a year or few years. (Hay is maybe the exception and should perhaps have been promoted a few years ago.)

 

What we essentially had before the pandemic/promotions was multiple principal level dancers on the male/female side dancing as first soloists in non-principal roles for a relatively sustained period of a few years, and this is unlikely to be the case again anytime soon. I look back on those years now to think how lucky I was to see some of those fantastic casts. Kaneko and Magri as big swans for example, O’Sullivan and Sambe in the Neapolitan dance…what a dream! 

[Suffolkgal]

I think this is largely a very supportive Forum where people can feel free to express views. I’m not sure I’d weigh in with negative comments though - probably would leave it as ‘underwhelming’ or ‘not ideally suited to the role’ …

[Roberta]

Yuhui Choe is missing also, maternity leave, always joy and a reliable, versatile  First Soloist. 

[Lindsay]

7 minutes ago, Roberta said:

Yuhui Choe is missing also, maternity leave, always joy and a reliable, versatile  First Soloist. 

True.  And I suspect Mariko Sasaki (who was a beautiful big swan on opening night of this run) has been focusing on her Odette/Odile debut so we haven't seen so much of her in soloist roles recently either

[Kerfuffle]

I really enjoyed Meghan Grace Hinkis in her pas de trois a couple of weeks ago. It was spirited and it felt like she brought something new to the variations. I saw BRB’s Sleeping Beauty last weekend and the first soloists were doing multiple roles really effectively. Maybe these dancers won’t become principals but they can be hugely enjoyable all the same. There are so many lovely solos in that ballet. 

[Scheherezade]

45 minutes ago, Suffolkgal said:

I think this is largely a very supportive Forum where people can feel free to express views. I’m not sure I’d weigh in with negative comments though - probably would leave it as ‘underwhelming’ or ‘not ideally suited to the role’ …

 

I think that most of us probably choose not to comment rather than posting unequivocally negative views. Personally I have to really dislike something before sharing my negative impressions but I am very happy to read the less than positive views of others. As well as giving a balanced spectrum of opinion, it makes me feel less of a grinch when I do so.

[Odyssey]

Interesting that the above discussion of the quality of dancers at first soloist level hasn’t mentioned Hamilton. I haven’t seen the current run, but several comments in this thread have commented positively on her as a big swan alongside with either Gaspirani or Sasaki . I know she wasn’t available last weekend as she was guesting in America, premiering a piece by Joshua Beamish at the Young America Grand Prix 25th anniversary gala. 

[Sim]

50 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

Interesting that the above discussion of the quality of dancers at first soloist level hasn’t mentioned Hamilton. I haven’t seen the current run, but several comments in this thread have commented positively on her as a big swan alongside with either Gaspirani or Sasaki .

And her Manon was sensational.  I loved her interpretation, and her understanding of, and technical ability in, the MacMillan repertoire alone elevates her.  She's not a classical dancer in the same vein as Nunez, Kaneko and Naghdi...but then Ed Watson wasn't a classical dancer either and had a wonderful career as a Principal.  

[art_enthusiast]

4 hours ago, Lindsay said:

True.  And I suspect Mariko Sasaki (who was a beautiful big swan on opening night of this run) has been focusing on her Odette/Odile debut so we haven't seen so much of her in soloist roles recently either

Yep, I was thinking that might be why she didn’t have a shot at the Mistress role in Manon (I imagine she would be amazing in that)

[Rachelm]

I love Hamilton, and I very much see her as a principal. I understand that she may not dance Aurora, or Odette/Odile, but her performances elsewhere more than make up for that as far as I’m concerned.

 

I still miss Beatriz Stix-Brunell very much from the First Soloist Ranks.

[Shade]

Very interesting comments. Personally, having seen many RB performances over the years I would say that the corps de ballet has increased in uniformity and coordination so that it is a real pleasure to watch traditional ‘white acts’. 
 

I also think there is strength in depth across the ranks. 

[Fonty]

I thought Hamilton was gorgeous in Requiem.  Not sure why she would be thought unsuitable for Odette/Odile or Aurora, but should that be an obstacle?  I don't think it is obligatory to dance those roles, is it?  Let's not forget that Laura Morera didn't dance them either, I don't think? Nor did other principal ladies of the past.  

Edited to add I am sure Morera would have made a wonderful job of either of those two roles, just that she was never cast in them.  

Edited April 22 by Fonty

[FionaM]

On 21/04/2024 at 15:57, RobR said:

I preface my remarks by making it clear that I have no particular connection to any of the dancers referred to in this this post, apart from having watched most of them dance and develop over the last twenty or so years.

 

I accept that this forum has members who have great experience and expertise in all aspects of ballet whether as watchers or with professional experience.

 

That said, I am concerned about this post. The poster may not have enjoyed this performance but I don’t understand what is meant by 'the cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy'. That seems to be critical but unclear. The poster may not have enjoyed it but without any information about the poster's critical experience or expertise I just don’t understand it.

 

 I am, however, more concerned by 'the two swans were a disaster'. This is criticism without clarity and worse, it comes across as a personal slight. Again we are given no clue as to why they 'were a disaster'. No explanation, just personal criticism.

it is this type of response to an honest personal and individual opinion that turns forum members away and scares others from commenting.  
 

It is irrelevant what anyone’s expertise is.  Any reaction is valid.
 

I didn’t take the original comments to be rude or disrespectful.  Everyone’s turn of phrase is different.  Perhaps we should ask for clarification first.

 

I took the word heavy to mean the cygnets were perhaps noisy or even thudding.  They can be, the choreography and music almost requires it.  The art is to transcend that. The cygnet quartet are not always successful.  
 

The disaster of the two swans I took to mean that they were not coordinated, had bad style or were poorly rehearsed.  Maybe there were other problems.  
 

I will finish with a quote from an audience member friend, who is hugely experienced and well traveled to the major theatres of ballet, who said of the opening night of Swan Lake at ROH :

 

”Vadim is the only swan on this lake”

 

That’s fairly damning of the staging of this production.   I do hope it has improved over the run.  

[Missfrankiecat]

36 minutes ago, Rachelm said:

I love Hamilton, and I very much see her as a principal. I understand that she may not dance Aurora, or Odette/Odile, but her performances elsewhere more than make up for that as far as I’m concerned.

 

I still miss Beatriz Stix-Brunell very much from the First Soloist Ranks.

Me too - she was a huge loss.

[Missfrankiecat]

2 minutes ago, FionaM said:

it is this type of response to an honest personal and individual opinion that turns forum members away and scares others from commenting.  
 

It is irrelevant what anyone’s expertise is.  Any reaction is valid.
 

I didn’t take the original comments to be rude or disrespectful.  Everyone’s turn of phrase is different.  Perhaps we should ask for clarification first.

 

I took the word heavy to mean the cygnets were perhaps noisy or even thudding.  They can be, the choreography and music almost requires it.  The art is to transcend that. The cygnet quartet are not always successful.  
 

The disaster of the two swans I took to mean that they were not coordinated, had bad style or were poorly rehearsed.  Maybe there were other problems.  
 

I will finish with a quote from an audience member friend, who is hugely experienced and well traveled to the major theatres of ballet, who said of the opening night of Swan Lake at ROH :

 

”Vadim is the only swan on this lake”

 

That’s fairly damning of the staging of this production.   I do hope it has improved over the run.  

Did your friend offer more detail - on the face of the comment I would judge it as damning of the overall standard of the dancing or at least characterisation rather than staging but maybe I misunderstand?  

[FionaM]

6 minutes ago, Missfrankiecat said:

Did your friend offer more detail - on the face of the comment I would judge it as damning of the overall standard of the dancing or at least characterisation rather than staging but maybe I misunderstand?  

It was a lack of elegance and grace in all the swans.  
 

I disagreed re Marianela (although there was occasional flatfootedness) but I saw her point about the corps of swans.  Some of this I’d say was due to the ‘busy’ and complex choreography for the corps.  It needed more rehearsal to my eyes.  And the swans generally needed more lightness in their action.  All of which should have been addressed before first night

Edited April 22 by FionaM
Add last sentence.

[Missfrankiecat]

19 minutes ago, FionaM said:

It was a lack of elegance and grace in all the swans.  
 

I disagreed re Marianela (although there was occasional flatfootedness) but I saw her point about the corps of swans.  Some of this I’d say was due to the ‘busy’ and complex choreography for the corps.  It needed more rehearsal to my eyes.  And the swans generally needed more lightness in their action.  All of which should have been addressed before first night

Gosh, I thought Marianela utterly superlative and I thought the swan corps very well rehearsed on opening  night.  The only raggedness I noticed was the men in Act One (and I do think the staging is very busy and crowded there, although I quite like it).  I thought the swans were a bit ropier in the Naghdi/Ball cast the other night (but I was much further away and higher and I do think viewpoint makes a difference - will be interesting how it looks on the Live stream.

PS - re the comment that Vadim is the only swan - I will say that the only 'disadvantage' of having Vadim in the RB is that almost anyone looks inferior by comparison.  And not just when dancing.  I can remember looking at him in Act 1 standing around doing not very much next to Benno (Luca Acri) and various others and, whatever their heigh, they all looked slightly muscle bound or otherwise 'chunky' next to those perfect lines.

Edited April 22 by Missfrankiecat