Royal Ballet - Swan Lake 2024

[Buru]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

I think in this version that he states his love for her, but doesn't make the vow, and she thinks that's enough.  He then betrays her by swearing eternal love to Odile.  This is intentional;  none of the Siegfrieds in this version swear eternal love to Odette in Act 2.  To me this makes sense;  Odette has just told him that when someone comes and swears eternal love for her, she will be a swan no more and the spell will be broken.  So if Siegfried swears this in Act 2, wouldn't that automatically break the spell?  

Thanks Sim. This is a sensible explanation, and I acknowledge that my perspective may be biased. I was brought up with a different story and saw it so many times, that it grew on me. I guess both versions can be justified as long as danced well. I saw Vadim two weeks ago and must have missed this moment, as it didn’t strike me as unusual then. 

[Silke H]

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[San Perregrino]

To see Sarah Lamb dance anything is a memory to cherish.  Her performance last night is another such cherished memory as will be her two upcoming performances. I urge anyone who wants to see her dance Odette/Odile to do so during this run.  Much as we want dancers to go on forever, Time waits for no man or woman.

Reece Clarke as Siegfried literally enveloped her with his love at points during the evening as their connection was both visible and emotional. 

Was it my imagination or had the courtiers withdrawn or receded more than usual from the stage in Act III in order to create the space needed for Reece to soar in his solo sequences?

Edited April 21 by San Perregrino

[RobR]

13 hours ago, Buru said:

 

Unfortunately, after a very strong first act with a fantastic Jo Jun as Benno and decent (albeit with visible challenges in jumps) Siegfried’s sisters, followed by a touching first meet and adagio of the prince and Odette, the final part of the second act fell apart for me. The cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy, the two swans were a disaster, Odette’s solo not convincing. And I’m not sure I saw Matthew rising two fingers as a sign of love vow in this act. I may have missed it but my companion didn’t see it either. 

 

I preface my remarks by making it clear that I have no particular connection to any of the dancers referred to in this this post, apart from having watched most of them dance and develop over the last twenty or so years.

 

I accept that this forum has members who have great experience and expertise in all aspects of ballet whether as watchers or with professional experience.

 

That said, I am concerned about this post. The poster may not have enjoyed this performance but I don’t understand what is meant by 'the cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy'. That seems to be critical but unclear. The poster may not have enjoyed it but without any information about the poster's critical experience or expertise I just don’t understand it.

 

 I am, however, more concerned by 'the two swans were a disaster'. This is criticism without clarity and worse, it comes across as a personal slight. Again we are given no clue as to why they 'were a disaster'. No explanation, just personal criticism.

[Tango Dancer]

@Silke H I love your photo of Rothbart.  He looks so creepy and effective in it.  You forget when you see it at a distance quite how scary he looks.  That's a great shot! 

[MAB]

47 minutes ago, RobR said:

 

That said, I am concerned about this post. The poster may not have enjoyed this performance but I don’t understand what is meant by 'the cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy'. That seems to be critical but unclear. The poster may not have enjoyed it but without any information about the poster's critical experience or expertise I just don’t understand it.

 

Had the late Clement Crisp made such a remark would you have accepted it?  Buru seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice.  Surely it is best to be honest about what you see, after all it's only by experiencing the less good that you recognize the exceptional when you finally see it. 

[Roberta]

3 minutes ago, MAB said:

Had the late Clement Crisp made such a remark would you have accepted it? 

 

I think it unlikely he would have described the two swans as a 'disaster' without any explanation. Did they fall into the orchestra? Crash into each other?  I think we should be told!

 

As for the cygnets, I've always found that part of the ballet risible (in a ballet where I fear I find a great deal risible to be honest) though I can't imagine the dancers being any more 'heavy' than any other cast. 

 

Some expansion and explanation I agree with @RobR would aid our understanding...  

[RobR]

14 minutes ago, MAB said:

 

Had the late Clement Crisp made such a remark would you have accepted it?  Buru seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice.  Surely it is best to be honest about what you see, after all it's only by experiencing the less good that you recognize the exceptional when you finally see it. 

Thanks @MAB,

 

I'm entirely happy to adopt @Robertas response but would add two things.

 

First, we all knew Clement Crisp's reputation and he posted under his own name and not a pseudonym. You suggest that @Buru ‘seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice'. Who knows?
 

Second, whilst you may be right I can’t imagine Clement Crisp or any other professional critic, much less a fan on a forum such as this, singling out a particular and identifiable dancer (or two in this instance) in the way the original post did. 
 

 

[Roberta]

39 minutes ago, Tango Dancer said:

@Silke H I love your photo of Rothbart.  He looks so creepy and effective in it.  You forget when you see it at a distance quite how scary he looks.  That's a great shot! 

 

It is indeed a great shot and the costume is a triumph of design and manufacture. However the makeup around the mouth looks as though Rothbart is around 105 and forgot his dentures.

 

 

Rothbart

German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname for someone with a red beard, from Middle High German rōt ‘red’ + bart ‘beard’, German ... 

 

A red beard signalled the baddie, see also Giselle? 

[Silke H]

50 minutes ago, Tango Dancer said:

@Silke H I love your photo of Rothbart.  He looks so creepy and effective in it.  You forget when you see it at a distance quite how scary he looks.  That's a great shot! 

Thank you @Tango Dancer

Gary loves it too and has used it in his latest post. ☺️

[Silke H]

12 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

It is indeed a great shot and the costume is a triumph of design and manufacture. However the makeup around the mouth looks as though Rothbart is around 105 and forgot his dentures.

 

 

Rothbart

German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname for someone with a red beard, from Middle High German rōt ‘red’ + bart ‘beard’, German ... 

 

A red beard signalled the baddie, see also Giselle? 

Thanks @Roberta

Also, a “von” in front of a last name in German used to in (the olden days) signify a kind of nobility (landed gentry?): “von” meaning of or from. So our SL baddie is likely from a place called Rothbart

[Rachelm]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

I preface my remarks by making it clear that I have no particular connection to any of the dancers referred to in this this post, apart from having watched most of them dance and develop over the last twenty or so years.

 

I accept that this forum has members who have great experience and expertise in all aspects of ballet whether as watchers or with professional experience.

 

That said, I am concerned about this post. The poster may not have enjoyed this performance but I don’t understand what is meant by 'the cygnets danced in sync but felt heavy'. That seems to be critical but unclear. The poster may not have enjoyed it but without any information about the poster's critical experience or expertise I just don’t understand it.

 

 I am, however, more concerned by 'the two swans were a disaster'. This is criticism without clarity and worse, it comes across as a personal slight. Again we are given no clue as to why they 'were a disaster'. No explanation, just personal criticism.

There was one incident I noticed with the Two Swans in their duet where one (won’t say who) seemed to stumble and the second nearly collided. Other than that they were beautiful. With the cygnets I noticed no heaviness personally.

[Roberta]

14 minutes ago, Silke H said:

signify a kind of nobility

 

Yes he's Baron von Rothbart   https://www.alastairmacaulay.com/blog/spjs2ilspbnnh0k5ozg3fbfco1dc73

[Roberta]

1 minute ago, Rachelm said:

There was one incident I noticed with the Two Swans in their duet where one (won’t say who) seemed to stumble and the second nearly collided. Other than that they were beautiful.

 

Well it happens.  Stages can be slippery,  sequins or a random feather drop off costumes,  dancers are human and sometimes dancing with an injury.  Steps are difficult to execute. It's hardly a disaster is it?  Falling flat on your rear or your face is unfortunate, what is possibly a 'disaster' of sorts is if it means a dancer is injured so badly they can't carry on. 

 

The greatest of dancers have stumbled. They get up usually and carry on like the professionals they are. 

 

Sounds as though the two big swans dealt with a minor incident admirably.  

 

 

[Rachelm]

6 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

Well it happens.  Stages can be slippery,  sequins or a random feather drop off costumes,  dancers are human and sometimes dancing with an injury.  Steps are difficult to execute. It's hardly a disaster is it?  Falling flat on your rear or your face is unfortunate, what is possibly a 'disaster' of sorts is if it means a dancer is injured so badly they can't carry on. 

 

The greatest of dancers have stumbled. They get up usually and carry on like the professionals they are. 

 

Sounds as though the two big swans dealt with a minor incident admirably.  

 

 

I totally agree. It wasn’t a disaster and they recovered well. 

[JNC]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

First, we all knew Clement Crisp's reputation and he posted under his own name and not a pseudonym. You suggest that @Buru ‘seems familiar with the ballet and has seen other productions and is therefore not an SL novice'. Who knows?
 

Second, whilst you may be right I can’t imagine Clement Crisp or any other professional critic, much less a fan on a forum such as this, singling out a particular and identifiable dancer (or two in this instance) in the way the original post did. 
 

I think the mods on this forum do an excellent job of deciphering what is opinion (critical or not) vs things that overstep in unacceptable ways (dancers’ appearances for example as well as perhaps sharing of personal/confidential information).

 

I personally don’t see an issue with the original post. I don’t think it’s unfairly personal - of course when we talk about individual dancers on here it is personal to an extent they are individual humans! But also they are performers, professionals and we comment on them here in that capacity. 
 

Pseudonyms are accepted on this forum. We comment as not professional dance critics but audience members (a spectrum from those who may be well versed in technique like dancers, teachers, parents etc to those with no training or discernible eye). 
 

We also single out dancers for positive criticisms, so I really don’t see the issue with the same for negative criticism (as long as it falls within the rules as above, eg nothing on personal appearances or anything overtly cruel etc…)

 

To say the swans are a disaster might not be nice and could be on the borderline of too far/harsh but it is a valid opinion and I don’t think it’s overstepped the line both in terms of forum rules but also valid opinion? The heaviness of the cygnets is a bit more tricky as that risks potentially being a comment on weight (which definitely breaches forum rules and is a very personal comment that has nothing to do with technique/dancing), so that’s something that perhaps should be avoided without clarification. Even this though at this stage is probably not quite overstepping the mark as it could also mean the cygnets were not as “bouncy” as one might prefer (for example) so giving benefit of the doubt it’s not about weight, I think it’s fine to stand. 
 

As much I enjoy reading glowing reviews I also find the more critical reviews insightful. I don’t agree with them all (the same way I don’t agree with the positive ones sometimes!) but I find the different viewpoints the benefit of this forum. Professional critics tend to only review one cast of each performance so coming on here and reading various reviews of different casts, and different people finding different points to comment on (both good and bad) and contributing to the discussion is why I come here. 
 

It’s unclear from your post what you think the resolution is? If you think that the comment should be deleted? (Because it’s broken forum rules?) then report the post. If you disagree with a post, you can reply accordingly, which you have done - fair enough. 
 

But what I take issue with is expressing concern about whether or not someone’s post is valid because we don’t know whether they are “qualified” to make such comments and because they haven’t provided the detail for this feels a bit unfair to me and risks people only posting positive and glowing reviews on here. By way of similar example, I could say “I didn’t enjoy Naghdi’s performance” and I don’t need to give a justification for this if I simply wanted to post that. 

 

(I didn’t see this performance, it’s just an example!)

 

I really hesitated whether or not to post this but in the spirit of the lively discourse of the forum decided to do so. If the mods/others feel that the comments were overly harsh / unfairly personal and therefore breaking forum rules I’ll go and refresh myself on the forum rules and also would be interested to know why this did fall into that category, as I don’t think it had crossed that line so open to being challenged on that but would need a bit of rationale. 

Edited April 21 by JNC
Clarification on cygnet comment

[Roberta]

Here is the wonderful Makarova talking with huge humour about her 'dancing disasters.

 

I think falling into the prompter's box trapped in your crinoline at the Kirov is possibly pretty disastrous.   🙂

 

 

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, JNC said:

The heaviness of the cygnets is a bit more tricky as that risks potentially being a comment on weight (which definitely breaches forum rules and is a very personal comment that has nothing to do with technique/dancing), so that’s something that perhaps should be avoided without clarification. Even this though at this stage is probably not quite overstepping the mark as it could also mean the cygnets were not as “bouncy” as one might prefer (for example) so giving benefit of the doubt it’s not about weight, I think it’s fine to stand. 

It didn’t occur to me that the post in question might be referring to the weight of the cygnets. I automatically assumed that the poster felt that they were heavy on their feet. 

[Jan McNulty]

Just now, Scheherezade said:

It didn’t occur to me that the post in question might be referring to the weight of the cygnets. I automatically assumed that the poster felt that they were heavy on their feet. 

 

That's what I'd assumed too.

[Buru]

10 hours ago, zxDaveM said:

 

The Princesses do have a part where they dance to and with the Prince for him to 'assess' his options. Short pieces invidually, and other parts together

Well, not exactly that. I meant real solo dances, in which each bride gets to shine and showcase her talents. Again, I didn’t mind this interpretation and each culture was well presented in Act III dances, which is what counts. 

[JNC]

25 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

It didn’t occur to me that the post in question might be referring to the weight of the cygnets. I automatically assumed that the poster felt that they were heavy on their feet. 

I was trying to see things from all potential perspectives/interpretations. I don’t think it was a weight comment either but I just wanted to clarify if it was (which is very much not likely) that obviously wouldn’t be acceptable. 

[JNC]

5 minutes ago, Buru said:

Well, not exactly that. I meant real solo dances, in which each bride gets to shine and showcase her talents. Again, I didn’t mind this interpretation and each culture was well presented in Act III dances, which is what counts. 

I think the first time I watched this production I was surprised how little dancing the princesses did. Given they’re credited individually on the cast sheets I expected a bit more.

 

I think more actually dancing is given to those in the “national dances” segment. Not a problem but I just found it at odds with the way the cast sheet displayed the princess casting more prominently.

 

I can’t recall how this compares with other productions as I’ve not seen too many others live (and certainly not recently).

 

Now I’m used to it I do enjoy Act 3 (in fact I think it’s my favourite act in this production) and the presentation of the princesses and the fact they don’t do too much dancing does make sense in the context of the plot. And the national dances give excellent opportunity for soloists/artists to shine. But I do feel the casting of the princesses is a bit wasted! 

[Roberta]

5 minutes ago, JNC said:

But I do feel the casting of the princesses is a bit wasted! 

 

Yes! Usually First Soloists in gorgeous costumes doing not a lot. 

[RobR]

In the SL version prior to this present version (was it Dowell or Makarova) the dancing princesses performed a pas de six. There was minimal acting and the subsequent National Dances appeared a little random given the apparent lack of connection/context with the six dancing princesses. 
 

The Scarlett princesses (four rather than six) carry an element of the story.  They are in competition with each other for Seigfried’s hand and resent the arrival of Odile as a competitor, hence the ‘side-eye’ towards Odile, referred to in an earlier post. 
 

I have seen other SLs but enjoy Scarlett’s princesses more than the others. 

[RobR]

12 minutes ago, Roberta said:

 

Yes! Usually First Soloists in gorgeous costumes doing not a lot. 

I stand to be corrected but I think this present run has had artists, first artists, soloists and first soloists dancing these princess cameos 

 

Edit: but the tutus are really lovely 

Edited April 21 by RobR

[Buru]

Apologies, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful. You are right that I meant that the cygnets were not bouncy enough, which is all about technique, not the weight. 
 

By “disaster” I meant that the big swans were not in sync and their jumps were very slow; and that emotionally this was a low point of the afternoon for me personally. 
 

I stated at the beginning of my post that I actually enjoyed the performance and found it interesting to compare with my previous experience of other productions. It was not perfect or the best I have seen, but it had many nice moments.
 

By no means I purport to claim that I have seen as much as late Clement Crisp or have any similar expertise. Ballet is my passion and there were times when I went to see Swan Lake three times a week and cried in Act II as it was so perfect it hurt. But I do appreciate that it cannot happen often and still go and try to find new nuances and look for smaller details I like. I clearly identified that in yesterday’s performance these were the dialogue between Odette and Siegfried and Jo Jun as Benno. 

 

I see that most posts on the forum are written in superlatives which is fine but makes it a bit one sided. Though I appreciate that as Sim said, for each their own. Will keep it to myself going forward. 

[RobR]

Thanks @Buru,

I now get and appreciate your post. I’m afraid I sometimes just get caught up in the moment. 

[bridiem]

16 minutes ago, Buru said:

I see that most posts on the forum are written in superlatives which is fine but makes it a bit one sided. Though I appreciate that as Sim said, for each their own. Will keep it to myself going forward. 

 

All I can say is, please don't keep it to yourself, @Buru!

[Rachelm]

13 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

All I can say is, please don't keep it to yourself, @Buru!

Yes- I really enjoy hearing lots of different opinions too.

[Scheherezade]

1 hour ago, bridiem said:

 

All I can say is, please don't keep it to yourself, @Buru!

 

1 hour ago, Rachelm said:

Yes- I really enjoy hearing lots of different opinions too.

I totally agree with @bridiem and @Rachelm. Please let us have your true thoughts, @Buru.

[Linnzi5]

1 hour ago, Rachelm said:

Yes- I really enjoy hearing lots of different opinions too.

Me too! I don't necessarily agree with some, but I never mind as it's so interesting to read what other people think and how they interpret things.  @Buru, please keep expressing your thoughts  

[Dawnstar]

10 hours ago, Scheherezade said:

was impressed by Ella Newton Severgnini in the Neapolitan dance. Was this also a debut? And there were two bits of falling fabric last night: the ribbon in the Neapolitan dance and then again in the Czardas which, fortunately, didn’t cause anyone to slip as they stepped over and around it. What little imp was wreaking havoc from the netherworld?

 

No, she first danced it on 1st April & has done it several times since. I think last night was the first time she was partnered with Acri though. There seems to be a lot of mixing up of pairings in the Neopolitan this season. I think both pieces of fabric were ribbons from the Neopolitan costumes but while Acri removed one as he left the stage the other one stayed there until Harris Bell retrieved it after the Czardas.

 

Sorry, I don't currently have the mental energy to comment properly on last night's performance but I just want to say that, given I regrettably don't usually find Swan Lake moving, last night I was pleasantly surprised to find that towards the end of Act IV Odette's gesture that she had to now die & Siegfried's reaction to it made tears spring to my eyes.

 

Further to the quite extensive discussions on the ending of the RB's production & how the sidelining of Siegfried is problematic, it occurred to me after watching it again last night that it could possibly be improved by making the relatively small change of, rather than Siegfried be knocked out by Von Rothbart before Odette runs to the rock & throws herself off, have Siegfried struggle desparately with Von Rothbart as Odette runs to the rock so he sees what she is doing, then Von Rothbart knocks him out as Odette jumps off. That way it would, at least for me, I think be more moving because we would get more emotion from Siegfried, plus it would make more sense as to how he knows where to go to retrive Odette's body.

[Scheherezade]

4 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

plus it would make more sense as to how he knows where to go to retrive Odette's body.

I think that Reece Clarke answered this potentially thorny little matter rather effectively last night by visibly starting at Von Rothbart’s prostrate form draped over the rock, inducing him to check the area behind.