Audience Behaviour - Thread 2

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Whoops sorry Jan. 

I credited his name to the photo in case it was a problem. I’m never sure about the rights of sharing photos but thought it’s okay as long as not profiting from it!! 

 

If in doubt it's best not to post photographs.

[Ian Macmillan]

Further news from the front line (though we may have heard some of it before):

 

Entitled theatregoers forget how to behave after Covid lockdowns

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0ec79ede-d19b-11ed-b5c3-54651fc826e9?shareToken=6a15074dad746e2effab71336b33038d

[Jan McNulty]

1 hour ago, Ian Macmillan said:

Further news from the front line (though we may have heard some of it before):

 

Entitled theatregoers forget how to behave after Covid lockdowns

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0ec79ede-d19b-11ed-b5c3-54651fc826e9?shareToken=6a15074dad746e2effab71336b33038d

Do ATG theatres still sell the little bottles of wine from the ice cream trolleys?  I feel quite sorry for the staff having to both cope with drunkenness and having to encourage it!

[Fonty]

I keep hearing excuses about people forgetting how to behave because of Covid lockdown.  I am fed up with it, time they were sharply reminded.  

 

On a slightly different tack, I had a standing ticket in the stalls circle for the first time.  Never done it before, is it normal for people to keep walking about?  Some chap appeared to be wearing hob nailed boots while he did so, and I noticed a couple appear to walk from one end to the other and back again during the second act.  Trying to get a better view?  It was only mildly distracting, but I was a bit surprised.

[Mary]

I'm still catching up on the world figure skating on i player, and the impeccably behaved, warmly supportive but exquisitely well mannered audience is greatly enhancing my enjoyment. Not a single person seems to be eating or drinking. They cheer every country , and they seem absolutely delighted with the skating ( as well they might be). It is a real master class in being a good audience.

 

[Geoff]

In terms of educating audiences in how to behave, what do we think of how this is done in Manitoba, Canada? Here is their young people’s study guide to the opera Turandot:

 

https://mbopera.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Turandot-Study-Guide.pdf

 

And here, for the purposes of comment and review, is a small section extracted from the 37-page document:

 

Audience etiquette
The following will help you (and those around you) enjoy the experience of a night at the opera:
• Dress to be comfortable. Many people enjoy dressing up in formal attire, but this is optional and people attend the opera wearing all varieties of clothing.
• Arrive on time. Latecomers disturb the singers and others in the audience. Latecomers will only be seated at suitable breaks - often not until intermission.
• Find your seat with the help of your teacher or an usher and remember to thank them.
• Remove your hat. This is customary and is respectful to the artists and to people sitting behind you.
• Turn off, tune in. Switch off all electronic devices including cell phones, smart phones, iPods, pagers, and digital watch alarms.
• Leave your camera at home and do not use the camera function on your phone during a performance. This can be very disturbing to the artists and audience members.
• Find the “EXIT” signs. Look for the illuminated signs over the doors. You always want to know where the nearest emergency exit is in a theatre.
• If you think you might need a breath mint or cough drop, unwrap it before the performance.
• Settle in and get comfortable before the performance begins. Read your program. This tells you what performance you’re about to see, who created it, and who’s performing in it. You might like to read a synopsis of the opera before it begins.
• Clap as the lights are dimmed and the conductor appears and bows to the audience. Watch as the conductor then turns to the orchestra and takes up his or her baton to signal the beginning of the opera.
• Listen to the prelude or overture before the curtain rises. It is part of the performance and an opportunity to identify common musical themes that may reoccur during the opera.
• Save all conversations, eating, drinking, and chewing gum, for the intermission. Talking and eating can be disruptive to other audience members and distracts from your ability to be absorbed by the show. The audience is critical to the success of the show – without you, there can be no performance.
• Sit still. Only whisper when it is absolutely necessary, as a whisper is heard all over the theatre, and NEVER stand during the performance, except in the case of an emergency.
• Read the English translations projected above the stage.
• Feel free to laugh when something is funny – this is a performance and you are expected to respond!
• Listen for subtleties in the music. The tempo, volume and complexity of the music and singing often depict the “feeling” or “sense” of the action or character.
• Notice repeated words or phrases; they are usually significant.
• Applaud (or shout Bravo!) at the end of an aria or chorus piece to show your enjoyment of it. The end of a piece can be identified by a pause in the music.

* Finally, have fun and enjoy the show!

 

 

 

 

[Sim]

From the clip above, I think it’s a great guide.  It emphasises both consideration for others and how to get the most from the performance. Bravo Manitoba!  👏👏

[alison]

3 hours ago, Fonty said:

On a slightly different tack, I had a standing ticket in the stalls circle for the first time.  Never done it before, is it normal for people to keep walking about?  Some chap appeared to be wearing hob nailed boots while he did so, and I noticed a couple appear to walk from one end to the other and back again during the second act.  Trying to get a better view?  It was only mildly distracting, but I was a bit surprised.

 

I assumed that must be where you were, given your comments on the performance.  No, it's not normal, although I have known people do it (noisily) at balcony level.  I think some of the ushers move around a bit, but presumably they wear quiet shoes.

[AnneMarriott]

10 hours ago, Fonty said:

 

 

On a slightly different tack, I had a standing ticket in the stalls circle for the first time.  Never done it before, is it normal for people to keep walking about?  Some chap appeared to be wearing hob nailed boots while he did so, and I noticed a couple appear to walk from one end to the other and back again during the second act.  Trying to get a better view?  It was only mildly distracting, but I was a bit surprised.

 

7 hours ago, alison said:

 

I assumed that must be where you were, given your comments on the performance.  No, it's not normal, although I have known people do it (noisily) at balcony level.  I think some of the ushers move around a bit, but presumably they wear quiet shoes.

In my experience of stalls circle standing, the ushers could occasionally be a real nuisance walking about, alone or in pairs,  wearing  audible shoes and apparently not bothering to be discreet.  They may have been following orders, perhaps to ensure the audience were behaving themselves, but it detracted from enjoyment of the performance.

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, AnneMarriott said:

 the ushers could occasionally be a real nuisance walking about, alone or in pairs,  wearing  audible shoes and apparently not bothering to be discreet.  They may have been following orders, perhaps to ensure the audience were behaving themselves, but it detracted from enjoyment of the performance.

Pre-Covid, years ago, I sent a letter of complaint to the then front of house team at ROH about thoughtlessly noisy footwear worn by some ushers. I received a decent reply. It seemed that action would follow.

 

However since then we had the great close down, a lot of staff moved on and it seems the senior team is now different. I notice that the ushers are something of a different breed (eg the girl who lied about a supposed ROH relaxed “policy” re underage toddlers, as reported on the Forum; the chap I asked a simple question of last week regarding the amphitheatre bar who went full John Inman on me, pointing and squealing “I’ll get right back to YOU!”, which of course he didn’t).

 

Others have noticed here that there is a chatty spirit of camaraderie between front of house staff, which would be good if it helped them do their jobs but (as others have written) one senses they sometimes care less about us and more about their jolly times at work.
 

In other words, noisy shoes are not the only problem front of house but of course silent footwear should be a basic requirement for auditorium work during performances. I suggest people write in and identify any culprits.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Geoff

[zxDaveM]

2 hours ago, AnneMarriott said:

 

In my experience of stalls circle standing, the ushers could occasionally be a real nuisance walking about, alone or in pairs,  wearing  audible shoes and apparently not bothering to be discreet.  They may have been following orders, perhaps to ensure the audience were behaving themselves, but it detracted from enjoyment of the performance.

 

it is at its worst when they do a changeover (for a shift or to give one a tea-break), as they seem to occur only in the quietest parts of the ballet...

clump-clump-clump

[San Perregrino]

15 hours ago, Fonty said:

I keep hearing excuses about people forgetting how to behave because of Covid lockdown.  I am fed up with it, time they were sharply reminded.  

 

On a slightly different tack, I had a standing ticket in the stalls circle for the first time.  Never done it before, is it normal for people to keep walking about?  Some chap appeared to be wearing hob nailed boots while he did so, and I noticed a couple appear to walk from one end to the other and back again during the second act.  Trying to get a better view?  It was only mildly distracting, but I was a bit surprised.

One is expected to stand at the designated purchased place for the duration. There are some who will look for the opportunity to move to a better place.
The ushers and sometimes authorised photographers will ‘patrol’ behind you during an Act, so there can be some noise. On one side there is a toilet located behind to SCS 50-54 and occasionally people use it for emergencies during an Act. Not everybody is fleet of foot.
If you’re referring specifically to the 1/4 evening performance, there was an unsettled person constantly moving about trying to get a better vantage which I myself found very disconcerting. 
 

If I am swept away by the music a little discreet barre work (as I see it in my minds eye) can pulse through me but never in a way such as to disturb my neighbours.
 

Edited April 5, 2023 by PeterS

[LinMM]

I am fascinated by what “discreet barre work” pulses through you PeterS 🤔…..a few plié’s and rises an excited little petit Battement or even a quick frappe’ perhaps even an exhilarated tiny sauté in 1st? 
Got my mind all a boggling now! 

[Fonty]

6 hours ago, PeterS said:

If you’re referring specifically to the 1/4 evening performance, there was an unsettled person constantly moving about trying to get a better vantage which I myself found very disconcerting. 
 

If I am swept away by the music a little discreet barre work (as I see it in my minds eye) can pulse through me but never in a way such as to disturb my neighbours.
 

 

It was the 1/4 evening performance, yes.  It didn't bother me that much, I just found it a bit surprising.  I did love the fact that my position allowed me to be one of the first to the bar in the Floral Hall during the intervals.

 

And I also indulged in a little barre work at various points.  A discrete plié or two, and the occasional battement tendu derrière on both sides to get the blood flowing while standing.  

[simonbfisher]

Quoting Geoff above: 

 

the chap I asked a simple question of last week regarding the amphitheatre bar who went full John Inman on me, pointing and squealing “I’ll get right back to YOU!”

 

How would you have preferred him to change his way of speaking, exactly?  

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, simonbfisher said:

Quoting Geoff above: 

 

the chap I asked a simple question of last week regarding the amphitheatre bar who went full John Inman on me, pointing and squealing “I’ll get right back to YOU!”

 

How would you have preferred him to change his way of speaking, exactly?  

Exactly? Ok I will try to be exact, but that will take a bit of explaining.

 

More quietly and less theatrically, for a start (people looked round at us, as if I had asked something unconscionable - it was in fact a seemingly simple question about the arrangement of the tables in the amphitheatre bar)

 

Also I was brought up not to point, as this is rude.
 

Also there seemed to be some kind of implication of a level of assumed intimacy which one might not think appropriate between a “customer” and a member of staff, at least not at the Royal Opera House (I must be several decades older than this chap). 

 

However I would probably not have bothered to note his undignified form of address (just as cheeky when I later checked with him if he had in fact obtained the information) had he actually done his job. He didn’t. I never got an answer.
 

My point - which if you read the rest of my post you will find is spelled out - is that there is a difference between doing a job and playing at it. And the current front of house culture seems not to be what it was. 
 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Geoff

[Dawnstar]

On 19/03/2023 at 20:56, Dawnstar said:

This article made me wince https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64999417

 

Any performances taking place that evening are going to be horribly disrupted as you can bet half the audience won't have their phones turned off so there will be alarms going off all over the place.

 

I see this has now been moved to 3pm, so more theatre performances will be affected. Time changed so it won't disrupt some football. Typical of this country that football is considered more important than theatre! https://www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/governments-national-emergency-alert-test_58706.html

[capybara]

43 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

And the current front of house culture seems not to be what it was. 

 

 

Couldn't agree with you more:
- ushers chatting among themselves rather than doing some obvious things like (e.g.) advising customers queueing for the two 'disabled' toilets to go downstairs instead if they are able to;

- 'joshing' together at the front desk (where there used to be friendly eye contact when approached by audience members);

- going in and out of the side doors at Stalls Circle level thus letting in distracting light.

 

Proper leadership is now missing where the front of house team is concerned.

[Scheherezade]

4 hours ago, Geoff said:

My point ... is that there is a difference between doing a job and playing at it. And the current front of house culture seems not to be what it was. 

 

3 hours ago, capybara said:

Couldn't agree with you more:
- ushers chatting among themselves rather than doing some obvious things like (e.g.) advising customers queueing for the two 'disabled' toilets to go downstairs instead if they are able to;

- 'joshing' together at the front desk (where there used to be friendly eye contact when approached by audience members);

- going in and out of the side doors at Stalls Circle level thus letting in distracting light.

 

Proper leadership is now missing where the front of house team is concerned.

 

And I long for the days when Searcys did the catering. The bar staff moved like lightning, remembered customers from previous visits and, with no loss of proficiency, conversed in a pleasing, unforced manner, giving every impression that they were happy to see you back. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Scheherezade

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, Scheherezade said:

And I long for the days when Searcys did the catering. The bar staff moved like lightning, remembered customers from previous visits and, with no loss of proficiency, conversed in a pleasing, unforced manner, giving every impression that they were happy to see you back. 

Or, even longer ago, when the Crush Bar was run by two of the fastest, funniest, most professional barmen in London. Immortalised in The House, if they recognised you heading their way, they would have your drink for you by the time you reached the bar. 
 

Or the delightful coat check boy who was perhaps the last voice we heard before the ROH stopped for redevelopment, ending the grand closing gala with an impassioned impromptu speech from a box about how the staff had been treated disgracefully. 
 

To coin a phrase, one just can’t get the staff. Or at least not staff like that. 

[San Perregrino]

My experience of the current ROH front of house staff at all levels is that they are always courteous, pleasant, friendly and efficient even under less than optimal working conditions.
[I have no in-depth experience of the bar staff per se, the ongoing rises in ticket prices left me having to prioritise performance over sustenance (to the benefit of my liver).]

Many staff old timers left as a result of the pandemic and patrons can sometimes be more knowledgeable than the ROH staff as many staff are relatively new hires. It takes time to acquire the collective wisdom of this forum for example so I wouldn’t expect a relatively new hire to immediately have the same knowledge as me.

 

I have always found that the staff I have had the good fortune to chat to are interested in learning more about the building and the respective ballet and opera companies both present and past.
As someone who regularly attends by myself, I have never felt ignored, slighted nor a bother in any way. Even at the busiest times I am always made to feel welcome with a smile and a few words. 

[capybara]

2 minutes ago, PeterS said:

My experience of the current ROH front of house staff at all levels is that they are always courteous, pleasant, friendly and efficient even under less than optimal working conditions.
[I have no in-depth experience of the bar staff per se, the ongoing rises in ticket prices left me having to prioritise performance over sustenance (to the benefit of my liver).]

Many staff old timers left as a result of the pandemic and patrons can sometimes be more knowledgeable than the ROH staff as many staff are relatively new hires. It takes time to acquire the collective wisdom of this forum for example so I wouldn’t expect a relatively new hire to immediately have the same knowledge as me.

 

I have always found that the staff I have had the good fortune to chat to are interested in learning more about the building and the respective ballet and opera companies both present and past.
As someone who regularly attends by myself, I have never felt ignored, slighted nor a bother in any way. Even at the busiest times I am always made to feel welcome with a smile and a few words. 

That’s good to hear @PeterS

[LinMM]

I have to say I’ve always found the staff very helpful in all areas.  Though the most I ever buy these days is a cup of tea (often hot foot from Neros) I’m always amazed their pay at one point and then round the corner to collect actually works!! Especially when busy! I’m always expecting my cup of tea to get lost in it all but it never does! 
The only minor irritation I’ve had is on entering at the cafe entrance when I’ve had my heavy “wheely”  with me on several occasions now one of the people on the door there says a tad gruffly can I please but my bag up on the table for inspection and I always say no I certainly can’t put it up on the table but he can if he wants to!! Which he never does want to! So the inspection then proceeds at floor level without too much fuss!  
 

[Fonty]

I am not sure if the first article has been posted before?  The Bodyguard at The Palace Theatre, Manchester.  


https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/theatre-news/show-audience-banned-singing-bodyguard-26626452

https://news.sky.com/story/police-called-to-disturbance-at-manchester-palace-theatre-during-the-bodyguard-musical-after-audience-tried-to-sing-over-cast-12852504

[MJW]

I found this letter published in today's Telegraph very amusing (hope its ok to publish in full - otherwise please delete) - 

 

SIR – I recently sat through the first half of a wonderful ballet with the very annoying distraction of the watch of the young lady next to me flashing a bright light every so often. At half time I remonstrated with her; she told me it was her smart watch reminding her that she hadn’t done any exercise for a few minutes. I asked her to turn it off and to remember never to do it again in a theatre. This she did with apologies and good grace.

I really thought I had brought up my daughter to know better.

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, MJW said:

I found this letter published in today's Telegraph very amusing (hope its ok to publish in full - otherwise please delete) - 

 

SIR – I recently sat through the first half of a wonderful ballet with the very annoying distraction of the watch of the young lady next to me flashing a bright light every so often. At half time I remonstrated with her; she told me it was her smart watch reminding her that she hadn’t done any exercise for a few minutes. I asked her to turn it off and to remember never to do it again in a theatre. This she did with apologies and good grace.

I really thought I had brought up my daughter to know better.

Thank goodness at least this father told his daughter to turn off her Smartwatch (or as a friend dubbed them, StupidWatch). So many just overindulge their grownup offspring. 

 

It’s a continued bugbear of mine when people don’t turn them off in theatres, cinemas, funerals, etc. If you’re meant to be exercising, don’t go to the theatre. Or cinema, church services, etc. 

[Sim]

From the BBC website today...it's just so depressing.  And for people like Hammond and Feltz to be so insensitive about the disrespect and disruption to the artists (especially since they are in the 'entertainment' biz) and the rest of the audience says it all, really.  I despair.  At least they apologised after being called out on Twitter...but they should have known better in the first place.  

 

Theatre etiquette in the spotlight after The Bodyguard incident in Manchester - BBC News

 

[Blossom]

19 minutes ago, Sim said:

From the BBC website today...it's just so depressing.  And for people like Hammond and Feltz to be so insensitive about the disrespect and disruption to the artists (especially since they are in the 'entertainment' biz) and the rest of the audience says it all, really.  I despair.  At least they apologised after being called out on Twitter...but they should have known better in the first place.  

 

Theatre etiquette in the spotlight after The Bodyguard incident in Manchester - BBC News

 

Feltz and Hammond should clearly be banned from attending musicals.

 

[Fonty]

That was the incident I was referring to in my own link.  Clearly been picked by the mainstream media now.  

 

Are the comments expressed by Feltz and Hammond really what they feel?  Or are they just being controversial?  So they think  it is fine to sing along at the top of your voice to every song you know the words to in a musical?  What about if you don't know the words but know the tune?  Is it ok to indulge in a bit of loud la la la - ing? 

 

These are supposed to be mature women.  Is this really what they want to encourage in theatres now?  I mean, why stop at musicals.  Why not expect to hear opera audiences singing along to well known arias.  Or people going to see Hamlet to chant out the words to his To be or not to be soliloquey?   I am sure we can all get at least some of the words right. 

 

 

[OnePigeon]

I wonder if it is, in part, the kind of musicals that are staged nowadays with the glut of jukebox and pop type musicals featuring songs that people have grown up singing along to and dancing to at parties and clubs etc?  I know Sondheim has his devotees, but I can’t quite picture those rowdy scenes and people singing along with such abandonment to something from Sunday in the Park with George, for example.  Sounding like the cultural snob I am, I do think the sophisticated metropolitan crowd who used to attend the theatre have disappeared with the passing of time and there is a sad lack of people being routinely exposed to the arts through the TV and the education system etc, leaving the audience for whom the music hall was once more the thing to take their place.  I say this as a working class person who grew up in the suburbs very much culturally alienated from my surroundings and peers.  Culture, taste and manners have no bearing on your class or bank balance.  Obviously it’s more than this, as we can all attest to with varying experiences at the ballet etc, but I do think it has something to do with it. 

[Richard LH]

13 hours ago, Fonty said:

Is this really what they want to encourage in theatres now?  I mean, why stop at musicals.  Why not expect to hear opera audiences singing along to well known arias.  Or people going to see Hamlet to chant out the words to his To be or not to be soliloquey?   I am sure we can all get at least some of the words right. 

I am sure no spoil-sports would mind if I tried out  a few of my own ballet moves in the aisle, to help Cinderella along later this week...🤣

[Fonty]

1 hour ago, Richard LH said:

I am sure no spoil-sports would mind if I tried out  a few of my own ballet moves in the aisle, to help Cinderella along later this week...🤣

I am sure the ushers won't mind you bringing in your own broom. 

 

I can't wait for the next round of Sleeping Beauty performances, so I can show everyone how those balances in the Rose Adagio should really be done.   

[Suffolkgal]

I’ve always fancied singing along with those opening chords in the dance of the knights!