Ashton's Cinderella - new Royal Ballet production

[LianneEva]

Just dropping in to say that I attended the Sleeping Beauty-themed tour today, and towards the end we dropped in to the auditorium for about 5 minutes to sit in the amphitheatre - it just so happened that they were doing a lighting test for Cinderella, so we were able to see one of the sets in situ (It looked the the outside of the Prince's palace, with a very grand backdrop and lots of footstools down the side of the stage) 

 

It looked beautiful and there was a lot of lovely floral detail (as per the promotional images) and made me very jealous that I haven't got a ticket for this run of Cinderella! 

[JNC]

On the timing question, I've noticed more performances than usual (?) seem to start at 7pm - particularly all the Saturday ones I think. Wonder if they are targeting a younger audience (i.e. children rather than 20s!) and hoping a weekend early start time will help. 

[alison]

I think the "old" timing might have been 2 hours 50 minutes, but whether that will have changed I don't know.  It hasn't been on for so long that my programme is in storage

[FLOSS]

 I can't help thinking that it is a mistake to judge the quality, effectiveness and the aural acceptability of a score written for use in the theatre  solely on the basis of whether it appeals to you on first hearing if you encounter it out of its intended theatrical context. The composer of a ballet score expects the audience to encounter his music in the theatre where they will experience it in the context of stage designs; the choreographer's response to the score and the dancers'  interpretation of the music and dance text. I think that ballet scores can really only be fully appreciated and judged in performance in their intended theatrical context. The score of Cinderella is particularly difficult to appreciate in its first eleven or twelve minutes without some idea of what sort of stage action the music accompanies as deprived of its theatrical and narrative context it can seem full of unconnected apparently random bars of music.

 

The first two and a half minutes of the score are an overture in which we meet several themes we will encounter later in the ballet. The first few bars, it seems to me, are an expression of Cinderella's profound melancholy a theme we hear repeated several times in the first scene. Much of the ten minutes of music following the overture are used to introduce and establish the character of the step sisters, their quarrelsome nature; their selfishness; their relationship with each other and and their relationship with Cinderella and her father  all of which is depicted in short sections  of stage action.

 

I can't help thinking that if the opening bars of the overture had appeared towards the end of the score of a serious ballet that included a death or two in the third act scarcely anyone would object to the dissonances those bars contain. It seems to me that it is the fact that these opening bars are unexpected and somewhat startling in a ballet score devoted to a fairy tale which lies at the root of the difficulties which some seem to have with the music for this ballet.Perhaps it is a problem for anyone whose ideas about what is appropriate to ballet music have been formed by early and regular exposure to ballets like Don Q and Nutcracker. What we have to remember us that by the early 1940's Prokofiev had extensive experience of working for the theatre and would have been fully aware of the ballet audience's musical expectations and equally aware that that audience would be over represented among the commissars who sat in judgement on his artistic endeavours and those of his fellow composers.

 

The score he produced is an unapologetic mid twentieth century score written by a twentieth century composer who had experience of writing music for opera and ballet as well as for the concert hall and cinema. In other words he knew how to create theatrically effective scores.Of course the music for Cinderella is not the sort of undemanding, tuneful score you might have expected to be churned out by one of the nineteenth century musicians employed as ballet composers in  St Petersburg such as Minkus or Pugni and their ilk and we should be eternally grateful that the score is as far removed from a schmaltzy Disney film score as it is possible to be. It is a score by a twentieth century master musician which self-consciously observes many of the conventions of nineteenth century ballet dressed in a twentieth century sound world which he uses to depict the ballet's characters; their emotional states and the stage action. In order to judge the score you really have to experience it in the theatre.

 

Of all the ballet versions if Cinderella I have seen,and I have seen quite a few, I still think that Ashton's version of the ballet is the most imaginative and theatrically effective of the lot. Ashton embraces and uses the music's quirkiness to create character. Where others  hold back he is not afraid to use the big tunes and luxuriate in Prokofiev's waltz music. Prokofiev was a dab hand at writing really memorable waltzes. In fact it often seems to me that one of the problems for Royal Ballet alumni who set out to make their own version of Cinderella  is that they spend a great deal of time and energy avoiding the big  tunes in order to avoid comparisons with Ashton.  Ashton's Cinderella is a work in which the choreographer uses the composer's  homage to the past as a way of justifying his return to Petipa style classicism. The score enabled him to harness the past in order to build a firm artistic foundation for the company in which expressionism would  play little part.

 

Persevere with the score. Each stage of the narrative is accompanied by music which is appropriate for the action depicted and the characters who are involved in it. The Jester's quirky character is depicted in equally quirky music. One of the musical highlights of the score has to be at the end of the second act as the clock strikes midnight.At this point the tone switches from happiness to nightmarish and menacing as Cinderella tries to escape before her clothes turn back into rags but finds all escape routes are barred.

 

I have no idea whether i shall like the new production. The last one Ellis-Somes staged was marred by some pretty garish costume designs and some coarse and unfunny stage business for the step sisters which no one staging a provincial pantomime would have found acceptable.That being said I am looking forward to seeing Ashton's choreography restored to the Covent Garden stage. I hope that this time round the Jester's costume and make up encourage the dancers cast in the role to create a character rather than play him as a soviet style leg machine.None of the roles in this ballet are merely about technique. I am certainly looking forward to seeing the version of the Summer solo which Vyvyan Lorrayne danced again.

 

The only commercially available recording of the ballet in a stage performance, as opposed to a recording of the ballet adapted for television, was filmed in the late 1960's.Its age should not put you off buying the DVD as the entire cast led by Sibley and Dowell dance the choreography idiomatically. At this point Alexander Grant was still able to do justice to his created role of the Jester and if Ashton and Helpmann are a little past their prime that is forgivable in the circumstances. 

 

[Guest oncnp]

On 16/03/2023 at 18:21, jmhopton said:

Rather off topic but thinking of Cinderella starting at the end of March and continuing through April makes me think of the RB new season announcement which is usually made in March/April. Has anybody any idea when the announcement will be made this year?

April 26 according to the box office

[Sim]

It seems to me that it is the fact that these opening bars are unexpected and somewhat startling in a ballet score devoted to a fairy tale which lies at the root of the difficulties which some seem to have with the music for this ballet .Perhaps it is a problem for anyone whose ideas about what is appropriate to ballet music have been formed by early and regular exposure to ballets like Don Q and Nutcracker. 

 

I'm afraid that's a bit of a patronising statement.  I have been watching ballet for 60 years, in various countries and all types of styles, music and genres of dance.  Music is simply a matter of taste, as is any art.  I have seen Cinderella numerous times as a ballet, so have heard the music as it was intended to be heard.  I just don't like it.  It doesn't appeal to me.  I like other complex music, just not this.  It has nothing to do with what I have been exposed to in the past.  

[Fonty]

@Sim  I've never warmed to the music either, it just isn't my cup of tea, although I can appreciate how clever it is.  

 

On a different topic, I assume the DVD of the ballet filmed in the 1960s is the copyright of the ROH?  If so, do they tend to withdraw older versions when they release a new one?  I only ask because on numerous occasions in the past people have mentioned older versions of various ballets, only for them to suddenly become very hard to get hold of.  I can't think of a specific example at the moment, unfortunately, but it has happened to me before.  

[JNC]

4 hours ago, oncnp said:

April 26 according to the box office

Seems quite late…?!

 

re the score my only experience with it was watching the recorded for TV performance with Fonteyn. I just didn’t get on with it at all - I appreciate it was filmed during a different technical era but the quality was poor, and I guessed much of Ashton’s choreography may have been cut (due to it being adapted/filmed for tv), and I just didn’t get on with the music at all - I found it so jarring and almost aggressive, and actually just quite intense (not in a good way) that made everything feel sort of on edge (Prokofiev wrote it during a rather tumultuous historical time and I wonder if that bled into the score?)

 

I’m really hoping I can maybe come round to it, or at least tolerate it for the sake of the wonderful dancing and costumes but it’s the only score I’ve ever heard that makes me feel actively uncomfortable (for lack of a better word), as opposed to simply not liking it. I found it didn’t suit the mood of the lavish ball (I suppose there is a timing countdown tension it suits maybe) or any of the other scenes exactly but I appreciate this was a while ago I watched it and the adaptation probably didn’t do the ballet or the score much justice (though Fonteyn is lovely).

 

it’s not that scores have to be “happy” or “Disney” or “simple” but this just feels so spiky and tonally wrong and almost dystopian for me I find it distracting rather than harmonising and elevating the choreography.

 

would love to prove myself wrong in a month or so!

[OnePigeon]

2 hours ago, Fonty said:

@Sim  I've never warmed to the music either, it just isn't my cup of tea, although I can appreciate how clever it is.  

 

On a different topic, I assume the DVD of the ballet filmed in the 1960s is the copyright of the ROH?  If so, do they tend to withdraw older versions when they release a new one?  I only ask because on numerous occasions in the past people have mentioned older versions of various ballets, only for them to suddenly become very hard to get hold of.  I can't think of a specific example at the moment, unfortunately, but it has happened to me before.  

I’m not sure, but the Dowell/Sibley Cinderella DVD is easy to get hold of at the moment.  It’s released by Opus Arte who seem to release all of the RB DVDs.  I suspect they stop printing (probably not the right term and I’m showing my age) copies of the older ones and a contract is made to release the new versions, which then makes them harder to get hold of as the shops run out of stock.  Those old BBC ballets released by ICA classics can be very expensive, such as Pineapple Poll and Nerina’s Fille Mal Gardee, but I suspect they have different copyright issues.

[Jamesrhblack]

I grew up listening to a Suite from the score (an RCA Victrola LP with Romeo and Juliet on the other side) and am looking forward to hearing the score in the theatre again. As I recall the minor key waltz at the end of Act 2 hinting at imminent disaster and the drama of the clock striking have a nightmare quality that looks right into the darkness at the heart of most fairy tales and the soaring melancholy of the opening is deeply touching.

 

i’d second all the praise for the Sibley, Dowell DVD. The latest remastering is much clearer than the old (which I still have somewhere as well). They are, of course, truly glorious, but it’s a particular pleasure to watch Vyvyan Lorrayne as Summer. 

 

 

[Geoff]

My parents had extracts of the Cinderella music on 78s so I grew up listening to it. Always loved it and can hardly wait for the run to start. 

[jm365]

Yes - I actually like the Cinderella score better than R & J.

[Sim]

Interesting as always to read the differing opinions on the same piece of music/art.  I recently read that the conductor of San Francisco Ballet's orchestra said that the Cinderella score is for the head, and the R&J score is for the heart!  An interesting take.

[LinMM]

Well I don’t mind the Cinderella music at all but would definitely rate R and J score more ….it’s just so associated now with all those wonderful ballet performances I would definitely rescue it from the waves before Cinderella lol! 

[Guest oncnp]

For those going on Friday. Gary Avis has strongly hinted on IG he will be dancing 

[Jan McNulty]

I really like the score for Cinderella but it did take me a while to get into it, whereas R&J, for me, was more immediate.

 

I love the melancholy feel of the Cinderella score.

[capybara]

I have just been told (albeit with some caveats) that the running time for Cinderella is 2 hours 55 minutes including intervals.

[Blossom]

I know that it's not usual to comment on the general rehearsal from a performance perspective, but will the moderators allow any mention of set design and costumes? Not sure I can wait til next Wednesday and it seems that all creative assets have been very closely guarded by the company!

 

Also unsure if it's been covered further up the thread but I wondered if the lack of teasers is perhaps connected to the ownership of the ballet and what decisions Wendy Ellis Soames may have taken personally as to how to remount this ballet. I can't even quite remember what we might have seen connected to The Dante Project premiere. 

 

[MJW]

Just received a Friends offer for 25% off certain dates next week - presumably these aren’t selling well?

[Guest oncnp]

15 minutes ago, MJW said:

Just received a Friends offer for 25% off certain dates next week - presumably these aren’t selling well?

Read not at all

[zxDaveM]

15 minutes ago, MJW said:

Just received a Friends offer for 25% off certain dates next week - presumably these aren’t selling well?

 

sadly not - quite a few dates where the tickets aren't 'flying out the door'

 

[JohnS]

First time I’ve received such an offer: 28, 29, or 30 March 25% discount for stalls and top 4 price bands.

 

My first tickets are for 10 April but Euston is closed all over Easter and the alternative route Avanti offers is horrendous. I could potentially go via Carlisle and Newcastle but it’s still 5 plus hours making the matinee very tight.

 

I’d be tempted to try 30 March but it’s a strike day.

[FionaM]

Nice offer, but I can’t get the discount to work.  

[Blossom]

I have booked tickets for 2 of these dates but miffed to be excluded as was contemplating taking my daughter on the night I was due to be alone if there were any offers.

I don’t understand why Friends offers don’t go out to all.

[capybara]

Given the starry casts on the dates involved, the number unsold seats at some performances beggars belief.

 

Maybe, once they reveal the costumes and sets, sales will pick up. In my view keeping the designs under such tight wraps has been an error of judgement.

[FionaM]

it proves the pricing is wrong 

[Blossom]

6 minutes ago, FionaE said:

it proves the pricing is wrong 

I wrote to say as much. Alex Beard responded suggesting the issue was driven by transport strikes among other things. 
My bugbear is that if they end up selling tickets well below face value they will be worse off than they could have been if they had found the sweet spot pricing wise. This all given the fact that Sir Lloyd Dorfman cited in his Times interview a number of months ago that they need to be 95% sold to break even.

[FionaM]

🤣🤣 to blaming transport strikes  

[FionaM]

I’d say the website is a problem too … this is the next big thing on the main stage and it’s about item 15 when scrolling down ‘what’s on’ without filters.  

[alison]

Plus the website is still misbehaving.

 

I've booked 9(!) shows - I think that's probably enough, anyway.

 

Wendy Ellis will be on Radio 3's In Tune (5-7 pm) tomorrow, I think I heard.

[FionaM]

Finally got the discount to work. Thanks for 25% off! 

[Linnzi5]

1 hour ago, FionaE said:

Nice offer, but I can’t get the discount to work.  

You need to make sure you click on the reduced ticked price option called 'member option', it's above the full price one. If you don't, you pay full price. It only shows on my laptop and not on my iPhone. Bit cheeky really as it's not easy to see, in my opinion.

[Linnzi5]

3 minutes ago, FionaE said:

Finally got the discount to work. Thanks for 25% off! 

Ah. I see you've found it!