Royal Ballet - 2018/19 new season wish list

[Xandra Newman]

I am frankly sick and tired reading his/her patronising "my dear", his/her tone, his/her arrogance, his/her labelling me as "fascist" (see his/her 3rd or 4th locked Topic!), 

his/her attack on Matthew Ball ("he should not be a principal, he is just a soloist"),

on Yasmine Naghdi ("...sunny disposition but should not be a principal, she's a tat too hyperextended"),

on Francesca Hayward (" vastly overrated and deeply insipid mediocrity of Hayward").

 

Whatever...

 

6 hours ago, SPD444 said:

 

So he/she signs off with another “opinion” on a dancer that is held in high regard with the description of being “deeply insipid” . This is a troll, ...... I have seen this style before on this forum, the best thing for everyone to do is to ignore it all, do not respond.

 

Yes absolutely! 

[Fiz]

A piece of advice. Do not feed the troll. Do not engage with the troll.

[Coated]

9 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

So we have someone with strong views who is not prepared to back those views up with the benefit of telling us her experience.  That is hardly opening up debates.

 

 

It really does not, but it did remind me that this forum has a block function.

[Fiz]

 It’s extremely useful, I find.

[capybara]

I  think that it's a good thing on a Forum such as this to have people who are prepared to challenge other's perceptions. 

 

At least two once regular contributors have disappeared this year, possibly because they put forward contrary views and felt 'hounded'. Others have described BCF as having become a 'fan site' , especially in relation to 4 or 5 RB dancers. There have been occasions when I have held back because I could foresee the reaction.

 

I really value BCF because it informs me and differing views interest me. We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves and I would like to think that we can absorb idiosyncrasies of communication as well as contrasting opinions - provided that we work within BCF's code, of course.

[Richard LH]

11 hours ago, Livia said:

I shudder to think of what will be put on stage under the guise of Symphony in C. The Royal's treatment of Ashton its own towering genius is parlous, they're barely able to cobble together one cast to do a halfway decent performance of Symphonic Variations these days.

My anticipation for the 18/19  RB season certainly  includes  newly promoted Matthew Ball and Francesca Hayward dancing the new Unknown Soldier,  as well as the corps in Symphony in C,  on the same bill, so I just hope all these overrated and mediocre dancers can somehow cobble  together some kind of half-decent display on that occasion. 

 

Putting aside the sarcasm, I don't think it is correct to suggest that critic Luke Jennings has the same level of apparent antipathy to the RB - e.g. in his 2018 review of Giselle he said:

"At ensemble level, individual performances are vivid and detailed, even if the Royal seems to have abandoned the notion of performing Giselle in the delicate romantic style of the mid-19th century, opting instead for a more generic classicism. While this is a matter for regret, the immaculately drilled precision that the corps de ballet bring to the big set pieces is both powerful and theatrical".  And for 2016, in his  Top 10 Best Dance - "The Royal Ballet corps in Act 2 of Giselle - Hauntingly beautiful".

 

And regarding Francesca Hayward, Luke Jennings' views are pretty clear : 

'British critic Luke Jennings tweeted: “Francesca Hayward dances Juliet and British ballet is remade."'

RB Manon 2018 - "As vixen, coquette and victim, the Royal Ballet’s Francesca Hayward, Natalia Osipova and Marianela Nuñez all touch greatness in the coveted role of Kenneth MacMillan’s tragic heroine"

Back to the RB corps, I am no technical expert but I note some other critics took a very different view to Jennings on Swan Lake; for example: 

Zoe Anderson, Independent (5 star review) - "The corps de ballet’s dancing combines poignant swan softness with attack and thrilling speed".

Debra Craine, The Times  (5 star review) "The swans amazed (and how silent were their pointe shoes), but everyone danced their hearts out for this historic occasion".

Anyway, I  absolutely loved everything I saw from the RB corps last season and  so I am looking forward very much to what 2018/19 brings, especially  Mayerling, La Bayadere,  The Nutcracker, Don Q, and Romeo and Juliet. If there are imperfections in the RB corps, I did not spot them; if they have room to improve still further on their techinique I expect I would  be even more delighted. No doubt  all dancers and companies strive for perfection even if absolute perfection is unobtainable. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Richard LH

[Rob S]

3 minutes ago, Livia said:

Sadly many agree with me and have privately messaged me to say so and that they're too afraid to speak out for fear of receiving the same abuse as I have. Think on that Xandra, dear.

 

Liv

 

How many is ‘many’? You sound like Donald Trump.

 

You’re going to find this place awfully annoying if you only consider two dancers at the RB worthy of Principal status. 

 

And do do try to stop sounding so patronising with the dears, it’s just about every post now

[Rob S]

1 minute ago, Livia said:

 

And BRAVO to you, my dear Richard, it's thanks to the sterling support of acolytes and amateurs who go and enjoy in the name of love, however ignorant and blind that love may me, that the doors of the ROH remain open. Thank you, dearest Richard and I mean that most sincerely. 

 

And this gains you Patroniser Assoluter status here (and probably everywhere else) Well done Madam

[Rob S]

6 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

 

Those are fighting words! Bravo dear Rob, bravo. And rather that I sound like Trump, than Stalin, I'm being roundly attacked by party members on all sides! 

 

Sorry, how many is ‘many’, again?

[Rob S]

3 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

 

*Assoluta

 

Too late I’m afraid, Assoluter is what’s on your certificate and the life sized statue beside the fire exit. 

[Vanartus]

...interesting that the dancers Livia mentions of being "not worthy" have mixed heritage. Just a thought...

[Shirley]

7 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

And BRAVO to you, my dear Richard, it's thanks to the sterling support of acolytes and amateurs who go and enjoy in the name of love, however ignorant and blind that love may me, that the doors of the ROH remain open. 

 

I could be wrong but are you implying that amateurs are not allowed to go and enjoy a performance because they can't see the faults that you see? Should only experts be allowed and if so how does one qualify as an expert? Must you have been a professional dancer, trained as a dancer but not danced professionally or participated in classes for so many years? 

[alison]

19 minutes ago, capybara said:

I  think that it's a good thing on a Forum such as this to have people who are prepared to challenge other's perceptions. 

 

[...]

 

I really value BCF because it informs me and differing views interest me. We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves and I would like to think that we can absorb idiosyncrasies of communication as well as contrasting opinions - provided that we work within BCF's code, of course.

 

Precisely, provided that.  When you signed up to this forum a few weeks ago, Livia, you agreed to abide by the forum's "Guidelines" - aka AUP - located here http://www.balletcoforum.com/guidelines/, in case anyone needs a reminder.  Since those already include "Contributors must be respectful to others.", there is certainly no need for us to "find and implement" any new ones.  Patronising all and sundry does not count as being respectful.

 

[alison]

And this thread has already gone way off-topic - and downhill.  If it degenerates any further, it is likely to be locked.

 

Right, now I really need to go and get on with some work, otherwise I won't be able to afford to go and see the Royal Ballet next season.

 

[Vanartus]

7 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

Dear Vanartus

 

if you're going to accuse someone of being racist, have the back bone to come out and say it. Yes, indeed Naghdi and Hayward are mixed race and their mediocrity is apart from their race, or rather Hayward's mediocrity and Naghdi's competency. I would never NEVER discriminate, attack or exclude based on race. And it is sick and nasty that you would intimate so. One can see the lunacy of the Left throughout the world mounting in attacks of ever more self indulgent nastiness. And the pattern it always follows includes accusing your object of hate of racism or fascism. While conversely demanding their right to freedom of speech be curtailed, which is the soul of fascism.

 

Shame on you, Vanartus and thank you, I was feeling bad thinking perhaps I'd gone too bitchy in retaliation to the constant attacks, you've proved quite rightly I haven't. Shame on you.

 

 

Gotcha! 

[Rob S]

4 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

Well, exactly, there only seems to be about ten regular posters on this board, any proportion of that is a significant percentage. I wonder why so few new people feel like they wish to join?

 

How about a straight answer? You said many, how many? Obviously we don’t expect you to name them ( dear X, dear Y and dear Z)....how many?

[Shirley]

Just now, Livia said:

 

Yes, indeed. That is exactly what I'm suggesting. 

 

I'm not sure why you would think that?  Can you explain why?

 

Looks like I had better not attend any more shows as I don't fit your criteria so not worthy of my seat 😟

[Rob S]

14 minutes ago, Shirley said:

 

I'm not sure why you would think that?  Can you explain why?

 

Looks like I had better not attend any more shows as I don't fit your criteria so not worthy of my seat 😟

 

Don’t worry, the Royal Opera House does tolerate blind, ignorant amateurs 

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, capybara said:

Others have described BCF as having become a 'fan site' , especially in relation to 4 or 5 RB dancers. There have been occasions when I have held back because I could foresee the reaction.

 

I also worry that things can get rather partisan here in relation to a couple of dancers, to the degree that even the casting of other dancers is seen through that filter. I know that I'm occasionally quite careful about how I word things here, and sometimes have to hold myself back from expressing scepticism at some of the more extravagant praise dealt out.

 

That said, there's a lot to be said for maintaining civility, not least because you're unlikely to win anyone over by just telling them they're ignorant, stupid and wrong!

 

And that's it from me

[ninamargaret]

19 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

Don’t worry, the Royal Opera House does tolerate blind, ignorant amateurs 

Will happily join the rest of the daft, ignorant members of the forum who pay their hard earned cash to enjoy performances by the wonderfully mediocre dancers that we like watching.

[Legseleven]

I have no problem with anyone expressing any opinion they hold and no problem with anyone disagreeing with that view and explaining why. There have been passionate debates on the forum where each ‘side’ has robustly expressed firm opinions and I hope that this continues.

 

I do however have a problem with patronising, hectoring supercilious rudeness as displayed here. Your views are just as valid as anyone else’s, ‘my dear’ Livia, but they are no MORE valid, despite your intimations (but not, I see, confirmation) of a vastly superior knowledge of ballet compared to that of anyone who disagrees with you here. If you find this forum so appallingly amateur and ill-informed in that members are daring to praise dancers or performances which you have decided are unworthy, then you don’t have to participate in its discussions. 

[Rob S]

2 minutes ago, Livia said:

 as the increasing number of private messages thanking me for my bravery prove.

 

That’s at least the third time you’ve mentioned it, I’ll ask you again....how many different posters have thanked you in a private message?

[taxi4ballet]

4 minutes ago, Livia said:

 

I started with a very reasonable statement that I don't think Matthew Ball a principal and that I'd like to see the corps de ballets standards in the classics improve. 

You didn't exactly word it like that though, did you? None of your derogatory comments regarding the dancers have been worded reasonably, or with any degree of politeness, good manners or courtesy.

[Fiz]

If we aren’t careful this thread will be totally derailed or locked. I am increasingly annoyed at the number of bad mannered posts that cause this action but the poster is still free to go on being obnoxious.

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

1 minute ago, Fiz said:

If we aren’t careful this thread will be totally derailed or locked. I am increasingly annoyed at the number of bad mannered posts that cause this action but the poster is still free to go on being obnoxious.

 

We are trying our best to ensure inappropriate actions are not taken.

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

A post on this thread has been hidden whilst the moderators consider a potential breach of AUP.  Posts relating to the hidden post have also been hidden.

[Lindsay]

Disingenuous calls for civility, in the context of a barrage of barbed, patronising remarks and the casting of aspersions on the intelligence of other posters does not demonstrate the generosity of spirit which supports productive discussion Livia.   

[Rob S]

41 minutes ago, Livia said:

 and indeed by the many private messages I've received thanking me, it would seem many wish to say the same things but are afraid to

 

Really? How many?

 

it would seem those people are even too afraid to appear to ‘like’ your posts 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Rob S

[LinMM]

I would genuinely like to know which dancers ...apart from Muntagirov and Nunez ( definitely couldn't disagree there both wonderful dancers with fine and  expressive technique) ....and can be from the past if necessary ...that you would consider worthy of principal status Livia and why you like these dancers.

Though can't help thinking this is for a different thread as its way of topic at mo etc!! 

[FLOSS]

We now know what the 2018-19 season holds in store for us and I am far from sure that it is really the sort of repertory which the company should be dancing if it is to become a truly great classical ballet company once more. Putting the quality of the corps de ballet to one side for one moment and apologising in advance if this is an unpalatable statement but neither Royal Ballet company has a really good Lilac Fairy let alone one with the technical command and stage presence of a Bergsma or a Grey nor an outstanding Myrthe either. Part of the problem is the choice of repertory which is far too wide in terms of style and choreographic content to enable the company to concentrate on the technical and choreographic basics which are fundamental to becoming and remaining a world class classical ballet company. But of course it does not aspire to be only that it also aspires to be a company at the forefront of creativity and innovation. As the artistic world in which many choreographers seem to work today is one of asymmetry, extreme physicality and extreme non classical movement it places every member of the company who participates in the creation of new works in the two competing aesthetic worlds of classicism with its emphasis on balance, symmetry, musicality, nuance  and effortlessness on one hand and modernism on the other and inevitably the modernism seeps into and is absorbed into the company's performance style across the board.

 

One of the reasons why the company achieved so much artistically in the first fifty years of its existence was not simply that the chosen core repertory which it was dancing regularly was a very demanding one which presented and continues to present technical challenges to every subsequent generation of dancers because it exposes their skills to close scrutiny, it was the fact that its first three directors were choreographer's who believed  whole heartedly in classical dance and went out of their way to cast those ballets with care and ensured at each revival  there was at least one exemplar cast performing it. This approach ensured that the entire company and its audience knew what the ballet in question should look like in performance. The aim was to achieve the best performance of a work that the company could manage rather than performances which were good enough.Now of course I know that casting people according to the relatively lax rules of employ which the company used to apply is deeply unfashionable but it is far less damaging to the quality of a performance which the audience experiences than proceeding on the basis that when it comes to casting anyone can do anything. If you operate on that basis for any length of time than you reduce the audience's ability to distinguish between an indifferent performance of a ballet and an outstanding one. If you think that I am being unfair search out and watch the recording of Ashton's La Valse made more than fifty years ago with a cast which included Park and MacLeary and the company's more recent recording of the same work. 

 

Here is my suggestion for the 2019-20 season.

 

As Kevin seems to need an excuse to stage any Ashton ballet except Marguerite and Armand perhaps he could use the Fonteyn centenary as his excuse for reviving a wider range of the founder choreographer's works than he can usually summon up the courage to stage. The company could  programme most of the works which were danced at her final performance namely Birthday Offering, Symphonic Variations and Façade. I don't think that Salut d' Amour which was created for the occasion should be included as it was far too dependant on Fonteyn's presence to be effective with any other dancer. It might  be a short evening but it would be one which would reveal quite a lot about the company and its state of technical health. A second mixed bill of Daphnis and Chloe, Scenes de Ballet and Les Patineurs ; another including Nureyev's staging of La Bayadere with a full compliment of thirty two shades, A Wedding Bouquet and a ballet in which Fonteyn would have appeared in her early years Les Rendezvous plus the following full length works Cinderella, Sylvia and Sleeping Beauty.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by FLOSS

[RuthE]

3 minutes ago, FLOSS said:

neither Royal Ballet company has a really good Lilac Fairy let alone one with the technical command and stage presence of a Bergsma or a Grey nor an outstanding Myrthe either.

 

Just out of curiosity, did you see Mayara Magri's Myrthe in the last run of Giselle?  If so, what did you think?  I thought she was outstanding, and have been wondering if she might make a good Lilac Fairy too.

[fashionista]

23 minutes ago, FLOSS said:

We now know what the 2018-19 season holds in store for us and I am far from sure that it is really the sort of repertory which the company should be dancing if it is to become a truly great classical ballet company once more. Putting the quality of the corps de ballet to one side for one moment and apologising in advance if this is an unpalatable statement but neither Royal Ballet company has a really good Lilac Fairy let alone one with the technical command and stage presence of a Bergsma or a Grey nor an outstanding Myrthe either. Part of the problem is the choice of repertory which is far too wide in terms of style and choreographic content to enable the company to concentrate on the technical and choreographic basics which are fundamental to becoming and remaining a world class classical ballet company. But of course it does not aspire to be only that it also aspires to be a company at the forefront of creativity and innovation. As the artistic world in which many choreographers seem to work today is one of asymmetry, extreme physicality and extreme non classical movement it places every member of the company who participates in the creation of new works in the two competing aesthetic worlds of classicism with its emphasis on balance, symmetry, musicality, nuance  and effortlessness on one hand and modernism on the other and inevitably the modernism seeps into and is absorbed into the company's performance style across the board.

 

One of the reasons why the company achieved so much artistically in the first fifty years of its existence was not simply that the chosen core repertory which it was dancing regularly was a very demanding one which presented and continues to present technical challenges to every subsequent generation of dancers because it exposes their skills to close scrutiny, it was the fact that its first three directors were choreographer's who believed  whole heartedly in classical dance and went out of their way to cast those ballets with care and ensured at each revival  there was at least one exemplar cast performing it. This approach ensured that the entire company and its audience knew what the ballet in question should look like in performance. The aim was to achieve the best performance of a work that the company could manage rather than performances which were good enough.Now of course I know that casting people according to the relatively lax rules of employ which the company used to apply is deeply unfashionable but it is far less damaging to the quality of a performance which the audience experiences than proceeding on the basis that when it comes to casting anyone can do anything. If you operate on that basis for any length of time than you reduce the audience's ability to distinguish between an indifferent performance of a ballet and an outstanding one. If you think that I am being unfair search out and watch the recording of Ashton's La Valse made more than fifty years ago with a cast which included Park and MacLeary and the company's more recent recording of the same work. 

 

Here is my suggestion for the 2019-20 season.

 

As Kevin seems to need an excuse to stage any Ashton ballet except Marguerite and Armand perhaps he could use the Fonteyn centenary as his excuse for reviving a wider range of the founder choreographer's works than he can usually summon up the courage to stage. The company could  programme most of the works which were danced at her final performance namely Birthday Offering, Symphonic Variations and Façade. I don't think that Salut d' Amour which was created for the occasion should be included as it was far too dependant on Fonteyn's presence to be effective with any other dancer. It might  be a short evening but it would be one which would reveal quite a lot about the company and its state of technical health. A second mixed bill of Daphnis and Chloe, Scenes de Ballet and Les Patineurs ; another including Nureyev's staging of La Bayadere with a full compliment of thirty two shades, A Wedding Bouquet and a ballet in which Fonteyn would have appeared in her early years Les Rendezvous plus the following full length works Cinderella, Sylvia and Sleeping Beauty.

 

Dear Floss,  

So totally agree with all that you say here.  I do believe that the RB is essentially a classical company with an unequalled wealth of wonderful ballets in their repertoire, most of which were created by the founding choreogrpahers, namely De Valois, MacMillan and Ashton.  I am concerned, as you are, that the rep is leaning too heavily on new works, many of which appear for one season and are never performed again as they are not worthy of being revived.  I fully appreciate that one cannot live in the past and must move forward, and I do sincerely hope that the new improved Linbury could be used for more experimental contemporary works, and that the RB on the main stage could serve up some of the seminal works that made the RB so unique.  

 

It is a shame that the Fonteyn centenary seems to be bypassed - as you say, Floss, this would be an ideal opportunity to revive some wonderful Ashton works.  My concern is that if the Ashton works are not danced, the Ashton style will be lost.  This was my concern with the RBS matinee this year (and in the last few years) - too much reliance on new modern works and not enough heritage works.  These works need to be taught to the students as part of their training.  Leave it too long, and there will not be the "old" Ashtonian dancers left to pass on the style.

 

I do appreciate that it is a difficult balance - heritage/contemporary, but the balance currently seems to weigh too heavily on the contemporary.  I do so hope that this may be addressed going forward - there are some lovely "jewels" in the rep which do need to be passed on to today's generation of dancers. 

[CheerwellMaker]

33 minutes ago, FLOSS said:

Here is my suggestion for the 2019-20 season.

 

As Kevin seems to need an excuse to stage any Ashton ballet except Marguerite and Armand perhaps he could use the Fonteyn centenary as his excuse for reviving a wider range of the founder choreographer's works than he can usually summon up the courage to stage. The company could  programme most of the works which were danced at her final performance namely Birthday Offering, Symphonic Variations and Façade. I don't think that Salut d' Amour which was created for the occasion should be included as it was far too dependant on Fonteyn's presence to be effective with any other dancer. It might  be a short evening but it would be one which would reveal quite a lot about the company and its state of technical health. A second mixed bill of Daphnis and Chloe, Scenes de Ballet and Les Patineurs ; another including Nureyev's staging of La Bayadere with a full compliment of thirty two shades, A Wedding Bouquet and a ballet in which Fonteyn would have appeared in her early years Les Rendezvous plus the following full length works Cinderella, Sylvia and Sleeping Beauty.

 

 

As much as I'd love to see the season you're suggesting, why the Nureyev La Bayadere over the current production?