DoItForFree Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 interestn also that many of yr11 boys not taking dance any further - WL must really have inspired them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 interestn also that many of yr11 boys not taking dance any further - WL must really have inspired them I'm not sure that is fair. I know boys really struggle around this age with who they are and what they want out of life and start to test the water elsewhere. It's not necessarily a reflection of the school. Also, when one or two do it, it makes it easier for others to follow. I find it unfair that Whiite Lodge gets this level of scrutiny when no-one seems to comment on student destinations in other schools or whether their students are continuing with ballet. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 The Royal Ballet School/ White Lodge is one of the worlds best schools. It is a real achievement to attend the school. People are naturally curious and want to ask questions. Most people would not turn a place down there, even if they knew that nothing is guaranteed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetanotherdancemum Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think it is entirely appropriate that WL receives this level of scrutiny...it is after all held up to be the "pinnacle " of classical ballet training in the UK if not the world? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Regarding getting a place in different upper schools, how does that work? I assume that everyone who wishes to continue down the ballet route would have had to apply to other upper schools before they heard about whether they got an US place, just in case they didn't. I am also interested to know whether WL students audition alongside external candidates or whether there is a separate audition/ assessment class for them. We'll never know the answer to this, but it would be interesting to know how many from WL applied to US and did not get a place. With the possibility of some choosing not to continue with ballet, wanting to go to a different school for US, injuries etc, it might not be as many as we think. Still difficult for those affected though, I hope they will all gain places at other great schools. This is not the end of the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm not sure that is fair. I know boys really struggle around this age with who they are and what they want out of life and start to test the water elsewhere. It's not necessarily a reflection of the school. Also, when one or two do it, it makes it easier for others to follow. I find it unfair that Whiite Lodge gets this level of scrutiny when no-one seems to comment on student destinations in other schools or whether their students are continuing with ballet. I think it is entirely appropriate that WL receives this level of scrutiny...it is after all held up to be the "pinnacle " of classical ballet training in the UK if not the world? I for one am curious to know the how many from other lower schools achieve US places at the same school (even if they turn them down) and how many ultimately go on to gain contracts in ballet companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I hope the disappointed WL students do get some positive news from other schools soon - makes it even worse when the 'no' for US comes before news from other schools and they are left in the vacuum. I agree Ribbons it is perhaps unfair that White Lodge gets this level of scrutiny but this thread is about White Lodge and people are curious as it is the perhaps the most well known classical ballet school. I think over the years I've been on this forum most of the other schools have come in for various levels of scrutiny and criticism as well. We perhaps all need to remember that nowhere and no one is perfect and for all our DC who get to attend any of the upper school vocational schools there are literally hundreds of dancers out there who either do not get a place or do not get the funding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I for one am curious to know the how many from other lower schools achieve US places at the same school (even if they turn them down) and how many ultimately go on to gain contracts in ballet companies. I think that you will find it varies year on year …. you are able to research graduate destinations at the Upper Schools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think this level of scrutiny is fair. All WL students are supported by MDS (depending on income level) i.e. supported by all of us who pay taxes. Even if you don't pay income tax, practically everything you buy (apart from food) is subject to VAT. So it is not unreasonable to ask if our money is being spent wisely, quite apart from the fact that members of this forum have their own particular interest in ballet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Yes I think it is the tax situation that makes people feel they can give the Royal more scrutiny perhaps than other schools......Not that I worry too much about this personally...... but some people care more about exactly what their taxes are doing!! Perhaps the Royal has become a bit of a victim of its own success that these days so many aspiring dancers want to go there from all over the world .......so it is impossible for it to ignore this world wide talent pool......at least for Upper School .......though of course there are quite a few very talented youngsters already at WL who have been offered places from across the Globe. Just out of interest I wonder what the situation is these days at other world class schools such as Vaganova in St Petersburg. Through the years from 11-18 how many are asked to leave and how many join later. I imagine there is quite a bit of to and throwing there. Do they offer students from abroad many places at 16? I wonder how many finish their training there all the way from 11-18. And do they expect to get into the Company if they do? The numbers on all this may be interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Actually I care very much what my taxes are doing! There are so many deserving individuals and organisations that are in desperate need of funds, whether in the Arts, Health care, Education or many other fields. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I agree but in a general way. All I meant was that one could drive oneself mad trying to account for how every single penny is spent!! For example where the Royal Ballet School is concerned I accept that part of my taxes are going to support a Centre of Excellence like them......and that talented children get a chance to go there who might otherwise not have that chance but for this support. And of course I hope that the school produces at least its fair share of truly excellent dancers. But nevertheless I'm not sure how far I would feel I could criticise the running of it........one hopes the people in place know what they are doing and why they are doing it! I do have other friends whoever who may resent their tax money being spent on the Royal Ballet School because as you say Pas de Quatre there are many other deserving people and organisations who would benefit from funding. In the end there will be many differing opinions about this but personally I'm happy to support the RBS and other centres of excellence connected to the Arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'd would quite like to support them but as I don't earn enough to pay Tax I look on in awe! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Actually, I would hazard a guess that the very very vast majority of tax payers have no idea whatsoever that some of their money goes to RBS and the other schools! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Actually, I would hazard a guess that the very very vast majority of tax payers have no idea whatsoever that some of their money goes to RBS and the other schools! And if we`re being brutally honest I would imagine the vast majority of the population would be horrified to find out .!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamala3 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 As a year 11 White Lodge parent I find many of your comments extremely hurtful. Our children have worked extremely hard and have always strived to be the best they can be and I am extremely proud of them all. I am horrified to discover they are the topic of gossip and speculation. They are real children and we are real parents. Thank you to those of you who have offered encouragement and support. I am confident that the children who are continuing their dance studies, thanks to their training and dedication, will have successful careers ahead of them. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I sincerely hope so mamala. I agree that the school should be subject to scrutiny as a whole but what has made me uncomfortable about this thread is that it is about a very small group of individual children, wheras other threads in the past have been much more general. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miracle Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Mamala3 Pm sent.x Edited March 18, 2015 by Miracle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 These students will do well, they are very talented individuals x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I think forum members were trying to point out that these students are very talented, so why is the Royal not taking their own. I felt strongly for these students my heart goes out to them especially if they wanted to continue in the classical field. They are very talented and I know will do well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Exactly Tulip - everyone hopes these students will go on to be successful in whatever career path they follow. It is the establishment and the way it is being run that is under scrutiny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAIRBELLES Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 My heart goes out to the children very upset this week. This is the first time I have personally known Mums and children on both sides of Royal US choices. What I find dreadful is the timing of such devastating results for the ones hoping to stay. I wish them positive thoughts to find the resilience needed to get through the rest of the finals , GCSEs and school year . Going off at a tangent I feel the whole process of lower school should be more transparent right from the first lesson of JAs . The results this week should not have come as a shock to anyone wishing to stay on . I feel the school has a duty to prepare the students who will not be staying so they can do their absolute best to secure their next choice of school/ college, instead of dropping a bombshell a week or two before . 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I have reread the whole thread and don't think anyone has been unkind about any of the children involved. In fact, there has been a great feeling of sympathy and support for the children that are in this difficult position - like SO MANY in the past. The commentary is mostly about the RBS - as started originally, and has been discussed, with lots of views and opinions. The school should be held up for scrutiny, goodness, last year 8 year 9 girls were 'assessed out', how is that right? As I understand it only 3 were aware there was a query about their progress, 5 got hit with a bolt out of the blue! No one is questioning their dedication, effort or desire - like many other children who are at full time school striving for this elusive career, or the ones who stayed at home who are juggling academic pressure, travel, dance training at night, auditioning while trying to juggle a less than supportive school. All work hard, make sacrifices and have a dream they are persuing with passion. RBS have a very narrow, specific criteria and they do as they please. Anyone who walks through their doors must know they are on borrowed time, but for a small few it is worth it. They walk out with an experience that is unique, a training that will hold them in good stead, probably open a few doors that are closed to everyone else. The children are not in question, but the school should be, in the way it deals with their charges, the expectation placed on the children and the duty of care it has for the very unique few it deals with. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I know none of the WL Yr 11s - nor have I seen any of them dance - and I do not speak to any WL parents in any year. Even so I had heard on the grapevine it was not as a total year group a strong year this yr at WL so I wasn't at all surprised to hear this result. If I knew that, how come this wasn't known by the parents in the school generally. Is there no feedback, even tactful feedback, on a child's chances? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 There may be plenty of feedback from WL (I would certainly hope that those students who are thought not to be at the standard required by the upper school are warned) but at auditions the RBS US just prefers students from elsewhere. It's all very Darwinian. It's very tough to get disappointing results so close to GCSEs. Could the auditions not be completed in the autumn term? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its her Life Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 My heart goes out to all the WL year 11's and their parents this week. It must be an absolutely terrible week for them all, even the ones who have got places at US as they have now got to live and train with their friends who have received the devastating news that they haven't got in. I do think WL must prepare them for this in advance though, as the year before last when my dd was auditioning everywhere, WL students were at all the finals of auditions at other schools and also many were at some of the open days. I can't remember exactly how many got in US that year (think it was 5 or 6 girls), but the ones that didn't, then got places at other schools. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I know none of the WL Yr 11s - nor have I seen any of them dance - and I do not speak to any WL parents in any year. Even so I had heard on the grapevine it was not as a total year group a strong year this yr at WL so I wasn't at all surprised to hear this result. If I knew that, how come this wasn't known by the parents in the school generally. Is there no feedback, even tactful feedback, on a child's chances? Flora, this seems to me to be speculation, as you have stated that you have not seen the students dance, nor have you spoken to any parents. Please remember that these are actual people, teenagers at that, and either they or their parents could well be reading the forum. To be stating that as a year group they are "not strong" is speculative, hurtful, and not at all helpful. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebell Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I agree with you Aileen and feel that the timing of the results for the year 11 students is terrible..the other final auditions are in the next week or so...they are only 15/16 years old and even tho those who have been at vocational school for a long time are quite independant individuals they are still young teenagers who have their important gcses looming... It is almost unbelievable how these kids-and in my mind they are still kids-are expected to dust themselves down and get on with their lives..their vocational school has been their second home and family-it's heart breaking for them. However I do strongly believe that all things are meant for a reason-I sincerely wish every year 11 ballet student going thro the audition process at the moment all the very best-regardless of whether they gain a place at vocational sixth form or not...ballet training is never a waste of time as it teaches you so many important life skills and makes you stand out from the crowd. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Mamala3 I'm sorry your child and others and their parents are going through this stressful time. I would say most posters have been supportive of the dc and their parents and questioning of the school. There is a very difficult balance to be struck between protecting the children and the (valid) interest of tax payers. The timing is of major concern in the dc educational welfare. I hope they all achieve their potential both in their GCSEs and their dancing careers - clearly they are extremely talented. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Welcome to the forum Mamala3. I am sorry that your first time of posting is to express hurt at opinions you have read on this thread. I agree with Sarahw above in that most posters have been, or intended to be fully supportive of the current Yr11 WL students. No one doubts that they are hard working dedicated individuals and that this is a very stressful time for them all. Please post again and give us more insight to the process and to update us on the good news that I am sure is to be received by each and every one of these talented students in the coming months. I wish them all the best of luck with their future dancing career (or what ever path they choose to follow). 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Merely saying that the WL year 11'a are not a strong year makes it personal. This is a very small group of individual children who are heartbroken, confused and hurt that the new director has changed the goal post right at the end. There is nothing they have been asked to do that they haven't accomplished. I watched their audition class and believe me I was impressed by their talent, obvious hard work and determination. They are the victims of change. The students who made it to the end would, I strongly believe, have been given places last year. Having Diane van Schoor leave just before their year 11 was disastrous but each and every one of them have done their best and deserve to achieve their ultimate goals. The timing of the news, three days before the next audition is so tough. Wishing them all the strength to believe in themselves again x 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hear hear angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdance Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I am sure that any young person in year 11 at WL is supremely talented, driven and will excel in whatever they put their minds to. They are some of the creme de la creme of this countrys artistic talent and while they are indeed the victims of change at RBS, I hope that they are resilient enough to cope with this news and go and bag themselves some places at some of the worlds other wonderful schools. The timing is cruel, they are only 15/16 and in some respects still so young, but also they will already be so mature having faced the threat of being assessed out every year in 7-9 and various other setbacks (injuries, castings etc) already in their careers. I wish all of those wonderful bright young people the very best in the coming months. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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