Royal Ballet's Swan Lake (Spring 2022)

[emmarose]

Yasmine posted on her Insta stories that she'll be performing in an early Swan Lake and wished Marianela a speedy recovery from illness, so perhaps it's illness rather than injury? 

[Guest oncnp]

Delete. Crossed in the ether

Edited March 1, 2022 by oncnp

[Sim]

Just now, emmarose said:

Yasmine posted on her Insta stories that she'll be performing in an early Swan Lake and wished Marianela a speedy recovery from illness, so perhaps it's illness rather than injury? 

Yes it is. 

[Sim]

8 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

I guess the ending won't change and so that's how we have to force ourselves to look at it but that means Siegfried fell in love with and continues to see only spellbound Odette, not the real one.....Albrecht fell in love with real Giselle

Yes…and Siegfried fell in love with spellbound Odette, which is why it’s that incarnation of her that will stay with him. 

[Sim]

12 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I think the fundamental problem for me is introducing Odette in her original form - if you're going to do that on the grounds that the spell has been broken by her death/sacrifice, to make coherent dramatic sense on a human level (which seems to have been the aim of this production) all the other swan maidens should surely also revert to their original form. (Which would of course be neither practicable nor desirable.) I do think there could also be a vision of the swan maiden Odette, representing the spirit of the dead girl who would be watching over Siegfried. But as is, I find the ending confusing. (But then, I'm easily confused...).

I think this is exactly what the vision is supposed to mean! 

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Sim said:

Yes…and Siegfried fell in love with spellbound Odette, which is why it’s that incarnation of her that she I’ll stay with him. 

 

Yes; but the big ending is inviting us to grieve with Siegfried about the original Odette, not the one with whom he (and we) fell in love!

[Sim]

1 minute ago, bridiem said:

 

Yes; but the big ending is inviting us to grieve with Siegfried about the original Odette, not the one with whom he (and we) fell in love!

But isn’t she a woman between midnight and dawn?  So he fell in love with both sides of her, the human and the idealised…

[emmarose]

9 minutes ago, Sim said:

Yes it is. 

 

Appears to be so, hopefully she's not too bad and will be back soon for those with tickets on the 5th.

[Rob S]

5 minutes ago, Sim said:

Yes…and Siegfried fell in love with spellbound Odette, which is why it’s that incarnation of her that will stay with him. 

 

Which is fine except real Odette shouldn't be seen at the end at the same time.

[Rob S]

3 minutes ago, Sim said:

But isn’t she a woman between midnight and dawn?  So he fell in love with both sides of her, the human and the idealised…

 

When do we see her with him as a human?

[AnticaFiamma]

Naghdi wished Nunez a speedy recovery from her illness on Instagram btw

[Timmie]

I was going to ask about the meaning of the ending today, but reading the comments no-one seems to really know what’s going on? That’s annoying, at the end I want to be wrapped up in the emotion, not trying to work out the logic of what’s going on 🙁.

[Timmie]

11 minutes ago, Rob S said:

When do we see her with him as a human?

 

I think it is dusk to dawn in human form, though ‘enchanted’, so we always see Odette as a human.

[Rob S]

7 minutes ago, Timmie said:

 

I think it is dusk to dawn in human form, though ‘enchanted’, so we always see Odette as a human.

 

But she flies away at the end of act 2

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Rob S said:

 

But she flies away at the end of act 2

 

I think that's the only point at which she's pure swan.

[Timmie]

I don’t think we ever see her as a swan, just a human with some swan-like characteristics (not flying though!). I got this from reading Cyril Beaumont’s book (not read for some time so I may be wrong).

 

The Mariinsky version has swan models leaving the stage and swan maidens entering in synchronicity with the transformation implied off-stage.

 

I’ll check the book and get back later.

[Timmie]

That didn’t take long 🙂. In Beaumont’s book he goes on at length about the dual nature of Odette but does say (page 70) “In interpreting the role of Odette it is a cardinal point for the ballerina to remember that in all meetings with Siegfried she is in her guise as a woman.”

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Timmie said:

That didn’t take long 🙂. In Beaumont’s book he goes on at length about the dual nature of Odette but does say (page 70) “In interpreting the role of Odette it is a cardinal point for the ballerina to remember that in all meetings with Siegfried she is in her guise as a woman.”

 

In which case it seems a bit over-literal and clumsy (and confusing!) to introduce her in a dress right at the end.

[Timmie]

5 minutes ago, bridiem said:

In which case it seems a bit over-literal and clumsy (and confusing!) to introduce her in a dress right at the end.

 Yep. I am going to try very hard to ignore that bit of the stage and focus elsewhere.

 

(Of course that is Beaumont's interpretation, which seems very logical and I'm not going to argue with it. There may be other interpretations).

[LinMM]

Personally I prefer the ending where Siegfried sacrifices himself ….far too many women sacrificing themselves on the whole!!….. and then with that lovely lilting music you see the both of them going off to some wonderful afterlife somewhere in that big Swan they used to use. Very dramatic and satisfying. Their sacrifice releases all the other “swans” so has a grand purpose. 
I do like aspects of Scarlett’s production though it’s a while since I’ve seen it but I didn’t like the ending last time and thought the Benno character was just a bit too much centre stage…..certainly confusing for anybody seeing it for the first time! 
It’s great to have a bit more male dancing of course but I did think he overshadowed the Prince too much on the whole. 
Glad to read that Nunez is not injured and so may be able to dance at a future performance after waiting all this time to dance the Odette/ Odile role again. 

[Sim]

2 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Personally I prefer the ending where Siegfried sacrifices himself ….far too many women sacrificing themselves on the whole!!….. and then with that lovely lilting music you see the both of them going off to some wonderful afterlife somewhere in that big Swan they used to use. Very dramatic and satisfying. Their sacrifice releases all the other “swans” so has a grand purpose. 
I do like aspects of Scarlett’s production though it’s a while since I’ve seen it but I didn’t like the ending last time and thought the Benno character was just a bit too much centre stage…..certainly confusing for anybody seeing it for the first time! 
It’s great to have a bit more male dancing of course but I did think he overshadowed the Prince too much on the whole. 
Glad to read that Nunez is not injured and so may be able to dance at a future performance after waiting all this time to dance the Odette/ Odile role again. 

Yes, my favourite ending is when they both die and then have the apotheosis so that they will be together for eternity.  I loved Dowell's ending in that respect.  And the music lends itself to exactly that kind of uplifting redemption.  

[emmarose]

6 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Personally I prefer the ending where Siegfried sacrifices himself ….far too many women sacrificing themselves on the whole!!….. and then with that lovely lilting music you see the both of them going off to some wonderful afterlife somewhere in that big Swan they used to use. Very dramatic and satisfying. Their sacrifice releases all the other “swans” so has a grand purpose. 
I do like aspects of Scarlett’s production though it’s a while since I’ve seen it but I didn’t like the ending last time and thought the Benno character was just a bit too much centre stage…..certainly confusing for anybody seeing it for the first time! 
It’s great to have a bit more male dancing of course but I did think he overshadowed the Prince too much on the whole. 
Glad to read that Nunez is not injured and so may be able to dance at a future performance after waiting all this time to dance the Odette/ Odile role again. 

 

The last time I saw it Marci was on as Benno, and to be honest, he could have had a bigger role as he was just amazing! 

[Jan McNulty]

2 hours ago, alison said:

 

Yes.  Wasn't the role of Siegfried created on (I think) Pavel Gerdt, who was very old in dancer terms at the time, so Benno was roped in for some of the partnering?

 

That's my memory from reading a lot about Swan Lake in its centenary year in 1995.

[Rob S]

1 hour ago, Timmie said:

I don’t think we ever see her as a swan, just a human with some swan-like characteristics (not flying though!). I got this from reading Cyril Beaumont’s book (not read for some time so I may be wrong).

 

 

 

In that case it should be called Swan Like!!🤔

 

[Guest oncnp]

Not a cast list but some info on the website for tonight including James Hay as Benno

 

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/swan-lake-by-liam-scarlett-dates

 

Also just noticed "Full Cast List" for quite a few future dates - they're not but I do love an optimist

Edited March 1, 2022 by oncnp

[Mary]

Mr Hay makes up for a lot. 

[LinMM]

One of these days I will have to pay again for a more expensive seat much closer to the stage to catch a glimpse of those lovely expressive blue eyes of his lol! Never mind the dancing! 

[San Perregrino]

26 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Not a cast list but some info on the website for tonight including James Hay as Benno

 

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/swan-lake-by-liam-scarlett-dates

 

Also just noticed "Full Cast List" for quite a few future dates - they're not but I do love an optimist

its up now

[MJW]

Just now, prs59 said:

its up now

 

Thanks for that - great to see James Hay as Benno. 

 

Just hoping it doesn't rain too hard as I walk along Waterloo Bridge later on!

[Fonty]

I remember reading an article once where a senior dancer was talking about how she had been coached as a youngster by either Markova or Fonteyn, I can't remember which.  When asked to outline the story, she started by saying that Siegfried sees and falls in love with a swan.  She was immediately corrected.   "No he does not fall in love with a swan.  He falls in love with a woman who has the characteristics of a swan."  

 

I've always thought the idea was that at certain times the actual human shows through, either because the magic is less powerful or because Von Rothbart taunts his victims by allowing them to see what they once were. However, he retains his hold so that they can never completely break free, hence all the swan like gestures.  That's the only way I can make sense of the story, anyway!

 

1 hour ago, Sim said:

Yes, my favourite ending is when they both die and then have the apotheosis so that they will be together for eternity.  I loved Dowell's ending in that respect.  And the music lends itself to exactly that kind of uplifting redemption.  

 

Me too, I always found that ending very moving, and is the most satisfying for me.  There was also another ending I have seen where Von Rothbart wins, Odette remains a swan for all eternity, and Siegfried dies by drowning.  

 

 

[bridiem]

24 minutes ago, Fonty said:

Me too, I always found that ending very moving, and is the most satisfying for me.  There was also another ending I have seen where Von Rothbart wins, Odette remains a swan for all eternity, and Siegfried dies by drowning.  

 

So that's all good then. 😧

[Tango Dancer]

1 minute ago, bridiem said:

 

So that's all good then. 😧

 

As Benno usually has more charisma than the prince, who always strikes me as a bit wet, I'd pay good money for an ending where Benno marries Siegfried's sister and becomes the new prince, Rothbart remains the power behind the throne and gets Odile into court as the sister's attendant.  Much more fun in my view.  

[alison]

1 hour ago, oncnp said:

Not a cast list but some info on the website for tonight including James Hay as Benno

 

Oooh!  Hoping he's still dancing it when it comes to the performance I had booked for this(ish) cast.

 

59 minutes ago, LinMM said:

One of these days I will have to pay again for a more expensive seat much closer to the stage to catch a glimpse of those lovely expressive blue eyes of his lol! Never mind the dancing! 

 

Are they blue?  I'd always thought they were darker than that.  (You can tell I don't spend much time near the stage, can't you?)  Either way, he uses them marvellously well - better than most other members of the company, I'd say, with a few exceptions.