RBS/WL , Elmhurst, Tring first hand lower school experiences please

[Dancers Dad]

6 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

But how well things go will be down to personalities (as well as their physical and mental health needs) -  your child’s, their teachers, their classmates. Those things you can’t predict. The teacher that caused my ds so much difficulty in the early years was loved by many others pupils.  

Well, this is very true. You can plan and think and consider all you like but much remains in the lap of the gods. I suppose that's why I tend to like the idea of sending your child off with the tools to manage whatever comes along: a bit more awareness of themselves, who they are, their strengths and weaknesses - and, crucially, that just because one adult in a position of power says something, it's not gospel. 

[Anon2]

5 minutes ago, Dancers Dad said:

Well, this is very true. You can plan and think and consider all you like but much remains in the lap of the gods. I suppose that's why I tend to like the idea of sending your child off with the tools to manage whatever comes along: a bit more awareness of themselves, who they are, their strengths and weaknesses - and, crucially, that just because one adult in a position of power says something, it's not gospel. 

It’s hard to send an 11 year old off though with the tools to manage things that you cant anticipate or maybe we were naive. We thought she would be cared for, small school wonderful reputation on paper. 
Things like your room mate will wake you in the night to terrorise you with comments about your hair colour, clothes etc. The pastoral staff tell you not to get out of bed after lights out even if you need a wee or start your period - everytime you do will get a point against you and when you reach a certain number will miss a weekend event. That when you are feeling unwell the medical staff are not available and you don’t have access to your mobile to call home. That the dance staff’s attitude towards you can turn on a pin. That the inspectors for Independent schools would scoff when your child and their peers raised issues and instead told them they should stop moaning as very lucky to be there - they were randomly picked for the meeting. 

[Dancers Dad]

16 minutes ago, Jane said:

It’s hard to send an 11 year old off though with the tools to manage things that you cant anticipate or maybe we were naive. We thought she would be cared for, small school wonderful reputation on paper. 
Things like your room mate will wake you in the night to terrorise you with comments about your hair colour, clothes etc. The pastoral staff tell you not to get out of bed after lights out even if you need a wee or start your period - everytime you do will get a point against you and when you reach a certain number will miss a weekend event. That when you are feeling unwell the medical staff are not available and you don’t have access to your mobile to call home. That the dance staff’s attitude towards you can turn on a pin. That the inspectors for Independent schools would scoff when your child and their peers raised issues and instead told them they should stop moaning as very lucky to be there - they were randomly picked for the meeting. 

That sounds truly dreadful. You're right, there's no 11 year old in the world who can be prepared enough to deal with that. It would test most adults.

[Balletmummy18]

Can only whole heatedly agree with Jane’s comments. How do you also prepare a 13 year old for being the football in the most bizarre game of intense staff politics - artistic staff v AD?? We had times when I knew as a secondary senior teacher I could not have coped with some of the situations my daughter found herself in  regarding these internal politics.

 

However ,  that issue was particular to us  and no one else in her year had that experience either so I don’t want to imply it happens every year - but it was definitely something that no book on teaching resilience and confidence to young adults / children mentions!!

 

Interestingly ,her recent experience at ENBS has been the opposite of her lower school  - far more caring in every way - they have been amazing . However  ,brutalised , we cynically wait to see if that will be sustained throughout her time there. 

 

[Lifeafterballet]

49 minutes ago, Jane said:

That the inspectors for Independent schools would scoff when your child and their peers raised issues and instead told them they should stop moaning as very lucky to be there - they were randomly picked for the meeting. 

When the school was inspected two children from each year group were selected by the leadership team to be interviewed. It certainly wasn’t going to be any of mine. They had a meeting prior to their interview and were coached on what questions they would be asked and their answers. The other children and parents completed an anonymous questionnaire about the school. We and others were honest about our experiences every time but the school always came up smelling of roses 🤔 The AD and principal were always very charming, helpful and approachable. But deep down I sadly don’t think they have the first clue as to what goes on in the ballet studio or what their pupils have to endure. 

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, Jane said:

…and instead told them they should stop moaning as very lucky to be there

 

It’s this all-too-pervasive attitude that keeps people silent.  “Don’t cause trouble as the ballet world is small and if you don’t want to be here, there are plenty of others to take your place.”  It needs to change, but I’m not optimistic.

[Anon2]

7 minutes ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

When the school was inspected two children from each year group were selected by the leadership team to be interviewed. It certainly wasn’t going to be any of mine. They had a meeting prior to their interview and were coached on what questions they would be asked and their answers. The other children and parents completed an anonymous questionnaire about the school. We and others were honest about our experiences every time but the school always came up smelling of roses 🤔 The AD and principal were always very charming, helpful and approachable. But deep down I sadly don’t think they have the first clue as to what goes on in the ballet studio or what their pupils have to endure. 

When mine was chosen she must have been early yr 9, she wasn’t aware until pulled out of class with a couple of peers, she was told randomly picked from class list. We weren’t aware until after the event. From what she said about answers they gave the inspector didn’t want to hear what they had to say - it was a tick box exercise 

[Anna C]

I really appreciate people’s efforts thus far to stick to forum rules on this thread - so that we don’t have to lock the thread, may I just remind everyone of our rules regarding discussion of schools, in particular:

 

https://www.balletcoforum.com/topic/18707-from-the-moderators-forum-policy-for-discussion-of-all-vocational-schools/

 

Many thanks, 

 

Anna C

 

 

 

[Lifeafterballet]

On a very positive note …….

The academic staff at my children’s vocational school were fabulous. Not only in their subject teaching but in their emotional support. None of them had a dancing background, they were there to just listen without judgement. 
They have remained in contact after graduation too 😊 Without that support my daughter would not be having the most wonderful time at University. They really went the extra mile and I feel are the unsung heroes that don’t get a mention on the graduation destination list. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by cotes du rhone !

[Neverdancedjustamum]

I remember going through a lot of these threads when my DD was in years 5/6 as I knew this question would come up and the possibility of her wanting to go “full time” at 11 was likely because a lot of peers at dance school were very intense and focused with a single goal in mind. Thankfully my DD was never that committed to going full time, and perhaps strangely, was never really interested in going to what I believe is the top school of choice for most at age 11. However, my point is that in speaking to a LOT of parents in the last few years, despite knowing full well of these concerns and being aware of threads such as this, if given the offer to a certain school, I’d say 99% would accept regardless of whether they think their child will cope. Even those who I spoke to who voiced concerns about 11 being too young to go away seem to forget this when they get the golden ticket, especially to a certain school where they know most people would think it nuts to turn down a full time offer from. Even when they read threads like this, I don’t think it will change their decision and they probably believe their child won’t go through the same and will get “used to it”. I know a lot of parents who are aware of these stories and many more but I also know these same parents won’t turn down an offer given the chance. They will then revert from “11 is too young to go away” to “it’s character building” or “it’s good for them to know the dance world is tough early on” or “it’s the opportunity of a lifetime”.  As someone quite removed from this, I actually don’t know what’s right or wrong but I guess for some it works and their child thrives (or would seem to).  Bottom line is that I have to admit I don’t envy those who have to make this decision soon.

[MamaFrosty]

The more threads I read like this, the more inclined I am to not do the auditions this time round and wait til she’s 16. The thing that means this isn’t an easy decision is because the girls she dances with do it very much as a hobby so there’s no real benchmark of what the other girls her age with the same aspirations are like. She does a couple of associates but she’s very new to those so we’ll see how much of a difference they make in her. She does work at home on her own but it’s not the same thing as being with other like minded kids who are as driven in her weekly classes. She’s not the most resilient of kids though, and we highly suspect she has autism which makes the social and emotional side of things much more challenging so I don’t think she’d thrive in a boarding school environment. It’s a really tough position for everyone to be in! 

[SissonneDoublee]

36 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

 for some it works and their child thrives (or would seem to)

And this is it. For some it works, and the child thrives, and for others it doesn’t. But if your child is not thriving, you can bring them home. Children leave vocational school every year, and return to regular school. There is always lots of coming and going. And children in regular school are not exempt from bullying and mental health difficulties, sadly. We have always taken the attitude that DD is there for as long as it is working for her, and I monitor this carefully every time she is home. She is thriving at a school that other people upthread have been unhappy with because different children have different needs, and wherever your child is at school (vocational or not) you need to keep communication channels open to monitor how they are doing. It’s not a permanent decision, and for the vast majority of applicants not even a decision they will have to make. But it is important to be aware of bullying and mental health issues in teens whatever your child does for secondary school, and to bear in mind that competitive, perfectionist children are much more likely to have certain issues.

Edited October 3, 2021 by SissonneDoublee
Clarity

[Neverdancedjustamum]

19 minutes ago, SissonneDoublee said:

And this is it. For some it works, and the child thrives, and for others it doesn’t. But if your child is not thriving, you can bring them home. Children leave vocational school every year, and return to regular school. There is always lots of coming and going. And children in regular school are not exempt from bullying and mental health difficulties, sadly. We have always taken the attitude that DD is there for as long as it is working for her, and I monitor this carefully every time she is home. She is thriving at a school that other people upthread have been unhappy with because different children have different needs, and wherever your child is at school (vocational or not) you need to keep communication channels open to monitor how they are doing. It’s not a permanent decision, and for the vast majority of applicants not even a decision they will have to make. But it is important to be aware of bullying and mental health issues in teens whatever your child does for secondary school, and to bear in mind that competitive, perfectionist children are much more likely to have certain issues.

 
Yes, that is true. But I do think that if your child is one of those lucky ones who get in, and the child starts to perhaps show signs of not thriving, how soon after this would:

 

- the child admit to this without feeling guilty that he or she is giving up, especially since these DCs would have been told how fortunate, special, talented and privileged they are to be in that school?

 

- the parent/s notice it if the DC tried to put on a brave face. 

 

- the parent thinks it’s time to leave as things are beyond the usual feeling homesick, settling in issues etc

 

It’s true that all the bullying, eating and mental health issues also exist in normal schools but how many children (with the exception maybe of those who are primed to go to top ranked private or specialist schools) have been prepared to spend the next 5 years of their lives working towards a single goal almost? Most of these kids, and I believe that increasingly this is becoming to be the case, have had a lot of time and money invested in them to get to that stage where they get a full time offer. I would say these kids are more likely to think twice about admitting to struggling when they know full well that mum and dad has spent a lot of money on lessons, classes, privates, associates, petrol and a lot of time waiting for them and taking them places. Of course I could be wrong and this is only my opinion but I think leaving (for example) WL would take a lot more thinking and family decision than someone who’s moving from one comprehensive secondary school to another.
 

 

[SissonneDoublee]

3 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

 
Yes, that is true. But I do think that if your child is one of those lucky ones who get in, and the child starts to perhaps show signs of not thriving, how soon after this would:

 

- the child admit to this without feeling guilty that he or she is giving up, especially since these DCs would have been told how fortunate, special, talented and privileged they are to be in that school?

 

- the parent/s notice it if the DC tried to put on a brave face. 

 

- the parent thinks it’s time to leave as things are beyond the usual feeling homesick, settling in issues etc

 

It’s true that all the bullying, eating and mental health issues also exist in normal schools but how many children (with the exception maybe of those who are primed to go to top ranked private or specialist schools) have been prepared to spend the next 5 years of their lives working towards a single goal almost? Most of these kids, and I believe that increasingly this is becoming to be the case, have had a lot of time and money invested in them to get to that stage where they get a full time offer. I would say these kids are more likely to think twice about admitting to struggling when they know full well that mum and dad has spent a lot of money on lessons, classes, privates, associates, petrol and a lot of time waiting for them and taking them places. Of course I could be wrong and this is only my opinion but I think leaving (for example) WL would take a lot more thinking and family decision than someone who’s moving from one comprehensive secondary school to another.
 

 

We have always approached this from the point of view that it’s a great opportunity, but only while it is working. DD is only fortunate and privileged to be there if it is right for her, and the rest is just spin. The children are indeed special and talented, and stepping back from vocational school wouldn’t make them any less so, but the set-up has to be right.

 

If they are losing weight, or seem withdrawn and edgy, it is time to get to the bottom of it. If they seem quiet or worried when you talk to them, or just don’t seem right.

DD hasn’t struggled with homesickness at all, so I wouldn’t be able to say how you can tell when this stops being an acceptable level, but i know that friends of hers have overcome homesickness with support (at school and at home).

 

It is difficult to risk a setup that could prove to be wrong for a child. And parents stress hugely over which secondary school to send their child to, so how much more so when it is a high-pressure environment far away from home? The investment of time, money and effort involved in getting a child to the point where they are able to secure a place at vocational school brings so many other benefits in terms of their broader life. You can’t view them as an additional pressure to complete their training, otherwise the fear of an injury would be unbearable. It is so important to go into the school with the mentality that it is just a year (or a term?) at a time, and that stepping away from it isn’t a failure, just a change of direction.

 

The stories of DC that have struggled are heartbreaking, and I really hope that they are now doing something that they love and that they have recovered from their experience. Children that dance at a high level often have personality traits that really increase the risk of anxiety and EDs whether they are in a high-pressure environment like a vocational school or not, but being in such an environment means things can get far more out of hand. This isn’t the case for everyone, or even most children there, but it is definitely something to have in mind.

[Ruby Foo]

I feel this is one of the most valuable and honest threads on this forum.

The fact we can discuss these important issues means we can be more aware of the pitfalls, empowered in asking questions and making  good decisions that fit our values. It doesn’t mean that schools will magically change because it seems they are frustratingly slow or unwilling to learn lessons, the school being more important than the students. On a positive, they HAVE changed beyond recognition since my day, (the old days) and definitely for the better. And there have been some very positive accounts of kindness and good practice on here which is good to hear.
It breaks my heart to think of those talented and enthusiastic yr 7s ( on this thread) who’s chosen schools were not ‘with them’ on their journey. 

However much our kids connect with ballet, love it, appreciate it, and see it as their future,  it surely cannot override our desire to give them a loving, healthy and nurturing childhood. One where they are at the center and their needs are met emotionally and physically, and lead to mental well-being and potential happiness.
 A growing child, a developing brain. Through 5 years of training, a child will progress through adolescence, often a tricky time when boosting confidence and self esteem is so important. Especially in this pressurised environment where body image and being ‘perfect’ is emphasised and blown out of all proportion. If only schools recognised this and there was a genuine willingness from all, to step up support.
We would not hire a childminder after meeting them for 10/15 minutes which is around the time we will meet our child’s carers at an open day and still may not get to speak to them in person. 
For those who are not sure, and are able to access reasonable training, associates etc then waiting another year might be the answer? Going  a year later is another year at home, another year of discussion and another year of maturity.

 

 

[Dancers Dad]

11 hours ago, SissonneDoublee said:

And this is it. For some it works, and the child thrives, and for others it doesn’t. But if your child is not thriving, you can bring them home. Children leave vocational school every year, and return to regular school. There is always lots of coming and going. And children in regular school are not exempt from bullying and mental health difficulties, sadly. We have always taken the attitude that DD is there for as long as it is working for her, and I monitor this carefully every time she is home. She is thriving at a school that other people upthread have been unhappy with because different children have different needs, and wherever your child is at school (vocational or not) you need to keep communication channels open to monitor how they are doing. It’s not a permanent decision, and for the vast majority of applicants not even a decision they will have to make. But it is important to be aware of bullying and mental health issues in teens whatever your child does for secondary school, and to bear in mind that competitive, perfectionist children are much more likely to have certain issues.

This is a good counterpoint (and your following post) to some of the posts, like mine, that are perhaps more worried about the lower school experience. It really does depend on the child - and the parents. That the child always knows there is a way out, no matter how prestigious the school or how much money spent, is critical.

 

One other separate point: I don't know about the really big name schools but there are several schools who take not only 16 year olds but 17, 18 and even 19, 20 year olds, so your child can start at the right point for your them.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

33 minutes ago, Dancers Dad said:

This is a good counterpoint (and your following post) to some of the posts, like mine, that are perhaps more worried about the lower school experience. It really does depend on the child - and the parents. That the child always knows there is a way out, no matter how prestigious the school or how much money spent, is critical.

 

One other separate point: I don't know about the really big name schools but there are several schools who take not only 16 year olds but 17, 18 and even 19, 20 year olds, so your child can start at the right point for your them.

This is absolutely true and a fantastic point. My DD at the moment is not interested in going full time but at the moment still dances quite a lot of hours as she does love it even if she’s not preparing for anything as such. At the same time and while I know it’s unlikely and almost impossible, I’d like to keep her opportunities open should she change her mind 4 years down the line. Selfishly, a little part of me wishes she would as there are fantastic schools overseas for someone age 15/16. Depending on whether it’s right for the child and if they really want it, I think studying overseas opens up a whole world of opportunities (and fees I’ve seen in Europe are cheaper!) and I’d love for her to explore this having studied overseas myself (although not for dance). At 15/16 she can make an informed decision on her own and we will just be there to support her. At the moment, what she wants to be and where she wants to be changes from week to week but she does have the next few years to figure it out slowly.

[alison]

Hmm, in that case perhaps you could encourage her to start learning an appropriate European language just in case?   From what I understand, not all the European schools use English, and it might potentially, so to speak, cushion the landing if she did go to one of them, rather than turn up in a new school and country where she doesn't speak the language.  And language skills are rarely wasted, should she need a career change. 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

10 minutes ago, alison said:

Hmm, in that case perhaps you could encourage her to start learning an appropriate European language just in case?   From what I understand, not all the European schools use English, and it might potentially, so to speak, cushion the landing if she did go to one of them, rather than turn up in a new school and country where she doesn't speak the language.  And language skills are rarely wasted, should she need a career change. 

She’s on it, although purely by chance because of school! Two languages that might potentially help 🙂 Luckily she’s keen on learning languages so likes doing it for fun too x

[Jewel]

It really is different for every child.  For my child they had a hellish Year 8 and was put on notice to improve.  Then Year 9 was wonderful and they won one of the year group prizes! Go figure.  I found on the whole that teachers and management and teachers  were caring and always responded to issues in the best interests of the child although there were a few maverick comments from the odd ballet teacher regarding size/shape etc.  Unfortunately it was in Upper School where it all started to go pear shaped.   I can't fault the teachers on the whole but a change of management and structure meant the ethos totally changed for the worse. Covid played a part, but I was on the verge of removing them in February 2020 before it all kicked in.  We were actually threatened at one point.

 

We struggled locally to access the kind of training needed to enter upper school/college and balance it with normal academic school, that's why my child went and they don't regret it at all.  But I do wish they had gone somewhere else at 16.

[Glissé]

14 hours ago, SissonneDoublee said:

Children that dance at a high level often have personality traits that really increase the risk of anxiety and EDs whether they are in a high-pressure environment like a vocational school or not, but being in such an environment means things can get far more out of hand. This isn’t the case for everyone, or even most children there, but it is definitely something to have in mind.

Exactly right, my dd is naturally a big perfectionist which most people may think is good for ballet but went against her in vocational training leading to further issues down the line. She’s a lot happier now away from ballet I think it became like an unhealthy addiction and being in that environment wasn’t right for her but it may be right for someone else’s dc. So  yes experiences can come down to the personality of the child but I think all the children in vocational training  experience some kind of set back at some point in their journey and as a parent you need to know what is right and what is wrong and to never be afraid of removing them from the environment no matter how prestigious the school is and ‘how lucky they are to be there”. As a family we fell into that trap I don’t think we realised how unhappy dd was when she was boarding away from home. Dd was concealing her emotions on the phone because she felt like she couldn’t give up her place because she felt so lucky to be there and as a parent you know your dc has worked so hard to be offered a place at the school so there’s almost this guilt if it doesn’t go to plan. We only wished we took dd away sooner. So if your dc has been unhappy for an extended period of time at a school and it isn’t just homesickness like we thought it was remove them from the environment. There is always somewhere else better suited to your dc or they may find happiness away from ballet like my dd. 

[Lifeafterballet]

32 minutes ago, Glissé said:

Exactly right, my dd is naturally a big perfectionist which most people may think is good for ballet but went against her in vocational training leading to further issues down the line. She’s a lot happier now away from ballet I think it became like an unhealthy addiction and being in that environment wasn’t right for her but it may be right for someone else’s dc. So  yes experiences can come down to the personality of the child but I think all the children in vocational training  experience some kind of set back at some point in their journey and as a parent you need to know what is right and what is wrong and to never be afraid of removing them from the environment no matter how prestigious the school is and ‘how lucky they are to be there”. As a family we fell into that trap I don’t think we realised how unhappy dd was when she was boarding away from home. Dd was concealing her emotions on the phone because she felt like she couldn’t give up her place because she felt so lucky to be there and as a parent you know your dc has worked so hard to be offered a place at the school so there’s almost this guilt if it doesn’t go to plan. We only wished we took dd away sooner. So if your dc has been unhappy for an extended period of time at a school and it isn’t just homesickness like we thought it was remove them from the environment. There is always somewhere else better suited to your dc or they may find happiness away from ballet like my dd. 

I totally agree with what you are saying. It’s so hard though when the thing that they love/loved the most makes them so unhappy 🙁 and they just won’t give it up. Like your Dd mine too has found happiness away from ballet. She should have left sooner and not prolonged the physical and mental torture. It’s so damaging to keep hammering away when you are a square peg trying to fit into that round hole. Recovery takes time too and requires a lot of support and patience. I’m pleased your Dd is happy 😊 

[Paquita]

Our DD started as a yr 9 boarder on lower school dance at another well known school, we chose it because it's less prestigious than one or two others so we felt she'd be more nurtured with less pressures put on her, thus allowing her love of ballet to remain.  The school have been amazing with every aspect of her care and always respond promptly to my e mails and phone calls and endeavour to do whatever they can to keep her happy and challenged in her vocational training. There have been a few hiccups with boarding....mainly teenage girls just finding their way with friendship groups as there are a few strong characters, but nothing out of the ordinary.  My daughter had a couple of poorly days and the house parent offered her a hug and told her to go back to bed and rest...she was checked on throughout the 2 days she was off school ill. We live 7 hours from the school so it's a HUGE deal that she's happy, not pressured, and well cared for. Ask curfue times (bed times) and how they ensure these are adhered to, ask if sleepovers can happen in the boarding house between rooms (we had one time my daughter was left alone in her room as her room mate decided to sleep over in another room), ask if they are supervised for trips into town at weekends etc, what the eating arrangements are at weekends etc. This particular school sort out taxis for the students to and from the station for exeats and holidays. They are open to requests of pupils leaving a bit earlier on exeat weekends if they have a long way to travel home (some pupils have 8 hour train journeys). Ask what the MDS includes...ours includes medical insurance, £500 towards dance uniform, £550 towards instrumental or singing lessons and also includes travel on public transport but only if on very low income. 11 would have been too young for us to send our daughter away, but every child and family circumstance is different. She had just turned 13 when she started at vocational school and its been the perfect age for her (we are missing her dreadfully though!!).

[glissade]

On 03/10/2021 at 19:27, Neverdancedjustamum said:

I remember going through a lot of these threads when my DD was in years 5/6 as I knew this question would come up and the possibility of her wanting to go “full time” at 11 was likely because a lot of peers at dance school were very intense and focused with a single goal in mind. Thankfully my DD was never that committed to going full time, and perhaps strangely, was never really interested in going to what I believe is the top school of choice for most at age 11. However, my point is that in speaking to a LOT of parents in the last few years, despite knowing full well of these concerns and being aware of threads such as this, if given the offer to a certain school, I’d say 99% would accept regardless of whether they think their child will cope. Even those who I spoke to who voiced concerns about 11 being too young to go away seem to forget this when they get the golden ticket, especially to a certain school where they know most people would think it nuts to turn down a full time offer from. Even when they read threads like this, I don’t think it will change their decision and they probably believe their child won’t go through the same and will get “used to it”. I know a lot of parents who are aware of these stories and many more but I also know these same parents won’t turn down an offer given the chance. They will then revert from “11 is too young to go away” to “it’s character building” or “it’s good for them to know the dance world is tough early on” or “it’s the opportunity of a lifetime”.  As someone quite removed from this, I actually don’t know what’s right or wrong but I guess for some it works and their child thrives (or would seem to).  Bottom line is that I have to admit I don’t envy those who have to make this decision soon.

This is so true. Well said. Reality often turns out to be different from imagination .... it's so much harder than can be imagined to find yourself in the position of having to actually make that choice. Kind of like the bystander effect in psychology - everyone says, yes! Of course I'd intervene! But the reality is .... that the reality of the situation erodes those imagined choices of action, and very few act in reality as they would in their imagination. It's just human nature - I'm not judging anyone here. Just saying perhaps that it's something to look out for if you're in that position of having to make a choice.

[Out-the-other-side]

Even without all of the very valid issues raised, if I were a parent of a child (with only U.K. citizenship) embarking on year 7 auditions this year, I would strongly consider holding back for a year or more to see how the European job market settles over the next few years. Without wishing to get political (and seeing how threads discussing this have previously been shut down) I do think a wise eye would be on graduate destinations more than ever before. 

[glowlight]

To me there seem to be a couple of clear messages coming out of this thread:

 

1) If it's going awry - don't be afraid to take your child out of the school. It doesn't have to mean the end of their dance training.   If they want to continue dancing - there will always be other options for these talented children.  But if they've had enough, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

2) Year 7 isn't the only option.  There are plenty of children who join vocational schools in later years, and 16 is always an option if you can maintain good dance training at home.

 

3) Whatever age your child is, never make them feel that they 'owe you' for what you have invested in their training.  For this reason I would always caution against taking huge loans or remortgaging your home to pay for vocational training.  

 

 

[Emmabclarke]

I'm reading these comments and I don't recognise these experiences. I realise each family's experience is different and every child's ballet journey is different.

 

However:

 

My experience of RBS and my child's experience bear *no resemblance* to these accounts.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the pastoral care my child has received, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help my child become a grounded, rounded, happy, well-educated young person I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help and support my child when difficulties, illnesses and injuries arise, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith that the school would listen to any concerns and react positively and quickly, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

I wouldn't have let my child stay in an environment where I didn't believe my child's best interests were being served.

 

I will make no further comment because honestly, this is everything I want to say.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Emmabclarke and welcome to the forum.

 

Just to point out that this thread covers more than one school and it should not be assumed that the comments of other posters refer to just one of them.

[Dancers Dad]

8 hours ago, Emmabclarke said:

I'm reading these comments and I don't recognise these experiences. I realise each family's experience is different and every child's ballet journey is different.

 

However:

 

My experience of RBS and my child's experience bear *no resemblance* to these accounts.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the pastoral care my child has received, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help my child become a grounded, rounded, happy, well-educated young person I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help and support my child when difficulties, illnesses and injuries arise, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith that the school would listen to any concerns and react positively and quickly, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

I wouldn't have let my child stay in an environment where I didn't believe my child's best interests were being served.

 

I will make no further comment because honestly, this is everything I want to say.

 

 

 

 

 

I think everyone on the thread has agreed that some children will thrive at dance school and it's great that yours is/was thriving. It's helpful for parents considering dance schools to be able to see the whole range of views, including yours.

[Ruby Foo]

I would assume that every parent who has sent their child to vocational school trusted that the school would do their best by them, otherwise, as you say, you wouldn’t have sent them there in the first place.

However, as this forum thread points out, some experiences, and definitely not all, broke that trust.

[Drdee]

12 hours ago, Emmabclarke said:

I'm reading these comments and I don't recognise these experiences. I realise each family's experience is different and every child's ballet journey is different.

 

However:

 

My experience of RBS and my child's experience bear *no resemblance* to these accounts.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the pastoral care my child has received, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help my child become a grounded, rounded, happy, well-educated young person I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith in the school's ability to help and support my child when difficulties, illnesses and injuries arise, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

If I didn't have total faith that the school would listen to any concerns and react positively and quickly, I'd have taken my child out of the school.

 

I wouldn't have let my child stay in an environment where I didn't believe my child's best interests were being served.

 

I will make no further comment because honestly, this is everything I want to say.

 

 

 

 

Emma

Thank you for sharing your experience. Whilst my daughter did not study at a lower school I could echo every single point you have said here in relationship to the three positive years my daughter had at the ballet school in the West of Scotland that was reported on by ITV and then closed. I was ignorant to a lot of what went on but also I did not have a good understanding of the breadth of what safeguarding actually entails.  I do not think there is enough education around this let alone productive discussion. It really is complex and complicated.

 

For those of you who want to join in the conversation please have a look at the work 'Saferdance Working Group' are doing.  This came out of the events from last year and RAD leading the way. Whilst specifically focussed on dance in out of hours settings, it is where dance educators, dance examining bodies and government organisations, dance parents, dance students and safeguarding experts are working collaboratively.  Have a look here:  https://www.dsswg.org.uk/resources. It is an ongoing learning experience for all of us and of course an under researched area. 

Denise

[alison]

Welcome to the forum, Drdee.

[Peony]

Very few situations in life are black and white it comes down to a fine balancing act of positives against negatives. I’ve never felt any school to be totally perfect with no downsides. I feel for all the parents as it’s so difficult to know what is really going on. Teens are secretive and embarassed and immature, abusers are cunning and hide their behaviour. I think it’s a big mistake as a society to put the responsibility purely on parents, that’s why we have safeguarding to try and pick up patterns of behaviour that may seem insignificant alone. Parents are not going to be party to confidential safeguarding reports so are making decisions on very little information