RBS/WL , Elmhurst, Tring first hand lower school experiences please

[Julsgalaxy]

My DC is yr6 and so we will soon be embarking on the whirlwind of vocational school applications and auditions which if I’m honest, I’m a bit apprehensive of the rollercoaster ride of emotions I’ve heard it to be.

im still unsure whether I’d actually want my DC to attend a vocational school even though they really want to if they were lucky enough to be offered a place. 
So I’m looking for first hand experiences of the good , the bad and the ugly of your children’s experiences of vocational training at one of those 3 schools (feel free to DM me) so that I can go into this all with open eyes before making informed decisions as we have no experience of vocational schools, what it’s really like living away from home from 11 , the schooling , the training etc so feel a bit clueless as to what we’d really be in for if indeed we were lucky enough and decided to take this route. 
I’m hoping that by hearing some of your honest experiences , we may have more of an idea of whether to actually even try to go for auditions or whether to decide as a family that it’s not for us.

 Thanks 

[Farawaydancer]

I’m sure you’ll get lots of advice. I have two dc at different vocational schools, and their experiences have been as different from each other as they have been similar, and also different again from their friends. There is no one particular experience, even within the same class, so much of it is down to your child’s personality. So listen to everyone, and have your questions answered, but their experiences will not be that of your child. 
 

Enjoy the auditions, it’s a lot of fun if you approach it with a ‘let’s see what happens’ attitude. 

[Julsgalaxy]

3 minutes ago, Farawaydancer said:

I’m sure you’ll get lots of advice. I have two dc at different vocational schools, and their experiences have been as different from each other as they have been similar, and also different again from their friends. There is no one particular experience, even within the same class, so much of it is down to your child’s personality. So listen to everyone, and have your questions answered, but their experiences will not be that of your child. 
 

Enjoy the auditions, it’s a lot of fun if you approach it with a ‘let’s see what happens’ attitude. 

Thanks so much for replying. It’s a very daunting prospect to even consider sending DC “away” for schooling xx 

[Crazylifecrazykids]

We did the 4 schools audition process last year a very different experience due to covid. DC is now newly into vocational school. My advice would be to do as much research as possible and enjoy each audition and see it as a fun day out. It's a big decision for a family to make so take it a step at a time. Good luck to your DC  xx

[Julsgalaxy]

7 minutes ago, Crazylifecrazykids said:

We did the 4 schools audition process last year a very different experience due to covid. DC is now newly into vocational school. My advice would be to do as much research as possible and enjoy each audition and see it as a fun day out. It's a big decision for a family to make so take it a step at a time. Good luck to your DC  xx

Thanks so much . Is your DC happy so far , I know they will have only just started xx

[Fudge]

Dd attended vocational school. There were lots of ups and downs -  she left after GCSEs and is now at University, after wanting a secure career. Do also consider the distance from home, extra expense of nights in hotels for school performances etc... fuel, hours spent on the motorway until they are ready to take the train. 

[Raquelle]

Hello. My daughter is a year 7 newbie in Elmhurst. Such a good idea to ask for different perspectives..... It's probably a bit early to tell for us but so far our experiences have been very positive. At this point last year we weren't even sure whether to apply and she had only just started associates...in the end we applied just to keep options open and it was only during auditions when my dd saw the school that she decided she wanted to go. Even when we got results it took a good few weeks of mulling it all through before we made the hard decision to let her go...its not easy and we all miss her terribly but she seems happy and I can't believe all the experiences she has had already in just a few weeks! X  

[Julsgalaxy]

3 hours ago, Raquelle said:

Hello. My daughter is a year 7 newbie in Elmhurst. Such a good idea to ask for different perspectives..... It's probably a bit early to tell for us but so far our experiences have been very positive. At this point last year we weren't even sure whether to apply and she had only just started associates...in the end we applied just to keep options open and it was only during auditions when my dd saw the school that she decided she wanted to go. Even when we got results it took a good few weeks of mulling it all through before we made the hard decision to let her go...its not easy and we all miss her terribly but she seems happy and I can't believe all the experiences she has had already in just a few weeks! X  

Oh that’s lovely that she’s happy so far xx

[Raquelle]

2 hours ago, Julsgalaxy said:

Oh that’s lovely that she’s happy so far xx

Aw she is...moments of home sickness bit generally loving it...feel free to pm me further down the process if you have any questions...Good luck with everything x 

[Julsgalaxy]

1 hour ago, Raquelle said:

Aw she is...moments of home sickness bit generally loving it...feel free to pm me further down the process if you have any questions...Good luck with everything x 

Thanks so much , I will do ...you must be so pleased that shes enjoying it xx

[Crazylifecrazykids]

8 hours ago, Julsgalaxy said:

Thanks so much . Is your DC happy so far , I know they will have only just started xx

Yes so far thankyou but as already said there's things to take into account that we didn't see straight away... the exeat weekends etc and travelling and other things. Ask away on thus forum, I'm sure people will be happy to share, every journey is individual but still useful to know others experiences xx

[rowan]

I have had no involvement with any of these schools, so cannot comment on that. I know you asked for first-hand experiences, but just be aware that those with less favourable things to say may not be willing or able to comment publicly here at all - for a variety of reasons. It would be worth looking at the pinned thread at the top called Please Read Before You Post, if you haven’t already.

[Lifeafterballet]

My daughter attended vocational ballet school from 11 to 19. We are not from a dancing background and were very naive about the whole thing. At 10 she very quickly went from one/two local ballet classes a week to JAs and then full time boarding. If we knew then what we know now we wouldn’t have accepted that offer and got on that rollercoaster. We didn’t do our homework and regret that decision. Our Facebook and Instagram posts and photos of amazing opportunities and exciting successes hide the reality of our day to day experience. Although today she is a beautiful, confident, resilient and able young woman there are physical and mental scars that will live with her for a long time to come. In our experience she is not a minority. As a previous poster rightly said, people are less willing or able to share their less favourable experiences. We are happy too and to help others make the right decision for their children. 
We also have a son who went to the same vocational school at 17. Did the same local classes then associates and SAs. Personally I feel that not going at 11 as his sister did was better. He was less affected and didn’t have his love of ballet sucked out of him in the three years he was there. Although that first year was awful 😢. He is now a professional ballet dancer in a National company and is loving it 😊 I personally feel that we should have kept our daughter at home and accessed associate classes, private coaching and intensives. Nurturing her love of ballet and building up her self esteem and confidence not having it chipped away at 😔 

I think the key is to ask the right questions, listen to the answers and go with your gut feelings. Don’t get overwhelmed with the prestigiousness. Choose what feels right for your daughter and your family x

[Dancing unicorn]

We also wish we’d have kept dd at home and attended weekend classes at the fabulous dance college she is at now!
Our dd got into JA’s year 4 and had 3 fabulous years of classes building her confidence ready to go away at 11! Then she had all that stripped away in the next 3 years 🥲 The following 2 years at another voc school we stood still and it’s only these last 3 years (this last year in particular!) that she has flourished and found her passion again at the amazing college she is at now! So much so that she’s gone back for another year in the hope that the industry gets better these next 12 months. 😁 But the scars are still there and I don’t think will ever go away 🥲

Edited September 27, 2021 by Dancing unicorn

[Whiteduvet]

I would stress that you need to look behind the websites and the social media posts and the general pedestal these schools are put on. In my experience few year 6 parents seem to ask (for whatever reason) the important questions: how is my child cared for emotionally? How much will I know about what’s happening to/with my child and how they are progressing? What are the odds of success (destinations at age 16 do not necessarily reflect the destinations of year 7 joiners: the members of two groups are often very different)? Are children encouraged to develop in areas outside of ballet (this for me is crucial)? Etc etc. 
 

Don’t be intimated: ask questions just like you would any other school. My DD is away now at vocational school and my sadness at her not being here is helped by how I know as far as I believe I reasonably can (since every school, vocational or not, carries risks!) she is being well cared for in every aspect. I did so so much research (people on this forum kindly pm-Ed me their experiences amongst things): all I can suggest is that you do the same. Don’t go down this route because everyone else is and/or the school is one of the well known ones.  

[Pointeshoesarethedream]

25 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

I would stress that you need to look behind the websites and the social media posts and the general pedestal these schools are put on. In my experience few year 6 parents seem to ask (for whatever reason) the important questions: how is my child cared for emotionally? How much will I know about what’s happening to/with my child and how they are progressing? What are the odds of success (destinations at age 16 do not necessarily reflect the destinations of year 7 joiners: the members of two groups are often very different)? Are children encouraged to develop in areas outside of ballet (this for me is crucial)? Etc etc. 
 

Don’t be intimated: ask questions just like you would any other school. My DD is away now at vocational school and my sadness at her not being here is helped by how I know as far as I believe I reasonably can (since every school, vocational or not, carries risks!) she is being well cared for in every aspect. I did so so much research (people on this forum kindly pm-Ed me their experiences amongst things): all I can suggest is that you do the same. Don’t go down this route because everyone else is and/or the school is one of the well known ones.  

It’s a minefield but the bit about how they will be cared for is a really significant point for us. DD will be doing the audition rounds this year and has 2 schools at the top of her list, one very prestigious and one less known at the moment. The lesser know we love everything about it, including how DD was cared for in the summer, the other I’m not so sure beyond the shiny facade. 
 

A couple of very random questions that are in my mind this week following social media posts:

 

1. How do each of the schools deal with homesickness in those first few weeks / months?

2. Do girls at WL have to have their hair a certain length?

3. Do WL only fit Freed pointe shoes to their lower school students?

4. All the lovely trips that take place in this first term, that I assume are to help the children settle in (London eye this weekend for WL pupils) do the parents get billed for these?

 

 

[Danceonthrough]

4 hours ago, Dancing unicorn said:

We also wish we’d have kept dd at home and attended weekend classes at the fabulous dance college she is at now!
Our dd got into JA’s year 4 and had 3 fabulous years of classes building her confidence ready to go away at 11! Then she had all that stripped away in the next 3 years 🥲 The following 2 years at another voc school we stood still and it’s only these last 3 years (this last year in particular!) that she has flourished and found her passion again at the amazing college she is at now! So much so that she’s gone back for another year in the hope that the industry gets better these next 12 months. 😁 But the scars are still there and I don’t think will ever go away 🥲

Would you mind sharing which college your daughter has had such a positive experience attending. My daughter is determined to attend somewhere post 16 but I’m apprehensive. Many thanks

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Danceonthrough and welcome to the Forum!

[Julsgalaxy]

8 hours ago, cotes du rhone ! said:

My daughter attended vocational ballet school from 11 to 19. We are not from a dancing background and were very naive about the whole thing. At 10 she very quickly went from one/two local ballet classes a week to JAs and then full time boarding. If we knew then what we know now we wouldn’t have accepted that offer and got on that rollercoaster. We didn’t do our homework and regret that decision. Our Facebook and Instagram posts and photos of amazing opportunities and exciting successes hide the reality of our day to day experience. Although today she is a beautiful, confident, resilient and able young woman there are physical and mental scars that will live with her for a long time to come. In our experience she is not a minority. As a previous poster rightly said, people are less willing or able to share their less favourable experiences. We are happy too and to help others make the right decision for their children. 
We also have a son who went to the same vocational school at 17. Did the same local classes then associates and SAs. Personally I feel that not going at 11 as his sister did was better. He was less affected and didn’t have his love of ballet sucked out of him in the three years he was there. Although that first year was awful 😢. He is now a professional ballet dancer in a National company and is loving it 😊 I personally feel that we should have kept our daughter at home and accessed associate classes, private coaching and intensives. Nurturing her love of ballet and building up her self esteem and confidence not having it chipped away at 😔 

I think the key is to ask the right questions, listen to the answers and go with your gut feelings. Don’t get overwhelmed with the prestigiousness. Choose what feels right for your daughter and your family x

Thanks so much for replying…that’s wonderful your son is dancing professionally now. Do you mind me asking what you feel was the cause of the mental scars….was it the hard training or the environment? I can totally imagine that it’s damaging in ways and that must be hard to deal with xx 

[Julsgalaxy]

6 hours ago, Whiteduvet said:

I would stress that you need to look behind the websites and the social media posts and the general pedestal these schools are put on. In my experience few year 6 parents seem to ask (for whatever reason) the important questions: how is my child cared for emotionally? How much will I know about what’s happening to/with my child and how they are progressing? What are the odds of success (destinations at age 16 do not necessarily reflect the destinations of year 7 joiners: the members of two groups are often very different)? Are children encouraged to develop in areas outside of ballet (this for me is crucial)? Etc etc. 
 

Don’t be intimated: ask questions just like you would any other school. My DD is away now at vocational school and my sadness at her not being here is helped by how I know as far as I believe I reasonably can (since every school, vocational or not, carries risks!) she is being well cared for in every aspect. I did so so much research (people on this forum kindly pm-Ed me their experiences amongst things): all I can suggest is that you do the same. Don’t go down this route because everyone else is and/or the school is one of the well known ones.  

This is very good advice, thank you xx

[Danceonthrough]

3 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

Hello Danceonthrough and welcome to the Forum!

Thank you Jan 🙂

[Julsgalaxy]

Thank you so much for all your replies, it’s very much appreciated.

this is just such a hard decision to make , it feels life changing and without actually knowing “what it would really be like” it feels an even harder decision.

11 really is still so young to go to boarding school I feel and it’s not something I would ever have chosen if it wasn’t for the love of dance so as a parent, it’s my DC welfare I suppose that I worry about the most so it’s just good to know of some experiences wherever good or bad to have an idea of the kind of things to expect or look out for going into this whole process.

I feel it’s very easy to be swept along in the process of auditions and be enticed by the popular prestigious schools without actually knowing what it would really be like to go there , day to day experiences etc . 

[glowlight]

@Julsgalaxy - the fact that you are asking these questions now, and recognise what a life changing decision this is puts you streets ahead.  Use all the information available to you, and your own 'gut feel' when you have contact with the schools to inform your decision.  Recognise that what is good for one child may not work for another, and vice versa.  

 

On the other side of the coin - another consideration is, if your dd really wants to be a dancer, do you have access to suitable quality teaching close to home?  As she gets older, are you willing and able to spend most of your weekends travelling around the country to access the level of teaching she wants.  

[Lifeafterballet]

1 hour ago, Julsgalaxy said:

Thanks so much for replying…that’s wonderful your son is dancing professionally now. Do you mind me asking what you feel was the cause of the mental scars….was it the hard training or the environment? I can totally imagine that it’s damaging in ways and that must be hard to deal with xx 

Both. My daughter said that for 8 years her waking thought and her last before sleep was of ballet. Every action, meal, glance in the mirror, there it was haunting her. It becomes an obsession, an addiction. Supported by the environment. Fear too, of change, of injury, of being judged, of failure 😞 

Sometimes I catch sight of myself in a full length mirror, eeek, I pull a face at what I see, then I pull on my clothes and move on with my day. I can’t imagine looking at myself every day and feeling disappointed with my reflection, comparing myself constantly to the others in the class. The constant struggle to fit your square peg into that round hole. To push your body to do things that it’s just not designed to do. To fight against what Mother Nature intended for you instead of embracing growth. Every day from year 9 on was a struggle. We felt unprepared and unsupported during our journey x 

[Blue Box Ballet]

I am very sorry to hear that some students have had such negative experiences of dance/ ballet training. 
As a dance educator myself I am hopeful that ‘the big schools’ are a lot more sensitive to the growing dancer these days, especially at such a vulnerable age. 
I have been pleased to hear the message of ‘child first, dancer second’ being promoted. Although a subtle shift, this can do a lot to ensure that teachers don’t simply train and instruct young students as if they were simply smaller adult dancers.

I’m pleased to hear that accredited dance teacher training courses now take child development & psychology very seriously. 
Sadly this was a huge problem with previous versions of the RAD’s PDTC, where you would cram learning their syllabus into a 3 month intensive, do a bit of writing and call yourself a ‘teacher’. 

We have to acknowledge that there are A LOT of ex professional dancers out there who now ‘teach’ who are themselves the product of institutional bullying, neglect etc and are repeating the cycle. 
As a prospective parent of a large institution I would be asking what qualifications the faculty have. Are these accredited qualifications, have they actively engaged in broader educational pedagogy, what are the safeguarding procedures…? 
Although I am optimistic that the next generation of teachers are well equipped for the challenges ahead, there is likely to be a delay in in-studio practice until they break through and start being employed by the ‘big schools’. 
I am hopeful for the future but let’s not be afraid to proactively demand better right now. 
 

[Ruby Foo]

When you send your child to boarding school, the school becomes the ‘parent’. They look after your child when they are ill, injured, when they’ve fallen out with all their friends, when they’ve been picked on unnecessarily by teachers, had their ballet shoes stolen, feel like there is no- one on their side. And plenty, plenty more. Who is your child going to talk to when she is sharing a room with someone who has developed an eating disorder for example? Can you imagine the pressure of worrying about your friend whilst carrying on in the best way you know?   It’s a huge ask. Who is going to listen? Who can your child express their feelings and emotions to? Who is going to make sense of the confusion of emotions? Who is going to notice your child’s body language when they’ve had a terrible week?

Even in the best boarding schools this sort of care is often inadequate. But in a Vocational setting such as a ballet school which is 24 hours of  intense pressure ( described so lucidly by Cotes du Rhone) and coming from every direction - the constant evaluation by staff, friends, yourself, then checking credentials of the staff is only going to go so far, even if they’ve done the full range of safeguarding procedures. We have experienced illness, where no member of staff offered support ( or was even in the building) and fortunately I was close enough to bring my child home after a frantic phone call where they told me they felt so ill they felt they were dying. All this during Covid and not a member of staff in sight. No Covid test taken. My child’s temperature was off the chart and they were obviously extremely poorly indeed. I had no call from any member of staff to say my child was ill. No one spoke to me at the school when I picked her up - she was quietly passing out on the front steps.
There have also been plenty positive times, quietly working away, good friends, laughter, plenty to celebrate and joy of learning with some lovely, supportive, wonderful teachers. But I definitely want to draw your attention to the nurturing side of Vocational schools ( or lack of it) ( we have experienced 2) and to emphasise the need for HUGE parental support in this area ( however you can ) because otherwise students learn very quickly to suppress their emotions with consequences later down the line. Students come from very different backgrounds, this and their different personalities will impact on how they deal with these very tricky experiences.

 

[alison]

I have no experience in this, of course , but I'm wondering whether it's worth asking what the school is looking for in a student - particularly physically, but also in terms of character, personality and so on - and what sort of dancer they're aiming to turn out.  After all, there's possibly no point in going for a school which has an aesthetic of long, leggy dancers if your family history suggests that shorter and stockier is how your child is likely to end up.

[Ruby Foo]

Just to add to my previous post, I do want to stress that the houseparents try their best and were a positive stepping stone to bringing bullying within the class to a halt and very supportive in other areas too. But often the students feel they can’t bother them ( particularly through Covid when they had so many extra duties) and evenings are such a rush with tea, homework, showers etc. Anxieties tend to go unnoticed and unaired (and magnify)  unless they can chat somewhere private ( and in peace) to their parents/ guardian. I don’t want to seem negative but I hope it’s helpful  to understand the issues.

Maybe a diversion from the original post, but it is interesting that junior boarding ballet schools are rare in the rest of the world, apart from Russia of course.

[Anon2]

11 hours ago, CMcBallet said:

We have to acknowledge that there are A LOT of ex professional dancers out there who now ‘teach’ who are themselves the product of institutional bullying, neglect etc and are repeating the cycle. 

As @valentina states the school becomes the parent and although our experience is now from a number of years ago we found a number of the pastoral/boarding staff were also performers, ex or looking for roles, with the attitude described by @CMcBallet for dancing staff. Those that came from the ‘real’ world didn’t last long. 

[Glissé]

On 27/09/2021 at 20:58, cotes du rhone ! said:

Both. My daughter said that for 8 years her waking thought and her last before sleep was of ballet. Every action, meal, glance in the mirror, there it was haunting her. It becomes an obsession, an addiction. Supported by the environment. Fear too, of change, of injury, of being judged, of failure

This is exactly one of the reasons why my dd has stopped ballet after 7+ years of vocational training. We too had a very negative experience when dd was at lower school. She arrived in yr 7 so confident and with a real passion for ballet and by the end of her time there it was all stripped from her. She wanted to carry on into an upper school hoping a different environment would help her but unfortunately the scars from her previous training were still there. As Valentina said they can become skilled at suppressing their emotions which is what my dd did after lower school training which only led to severe mental health issues in her upper school training thankfully she is ok now. If I had a child in yr 6 now and with my current knowledge and experience of boarding schools I would be keeping her at home. It is also funny how the most confident, and successful dancers in my dd’s year at upper school did not go through lower school training and they still had a very deep passion for ballet and are still trying to continue in the profession. Whereas my dd who had been to a top lower school has had to end her career early. I truly believe you can still become a very successful dancer without lower school training look at the other countries many don’t have ballet boarding schools for 11 yr olds. I think many foreign successful dancers are privately coached with a very supportive teacher  which makes all the difference not someone who bullies and name calls day in and day out for 5 yrs.. 

[Julsgalaxy]

Thank you so much for all your input and PM’s . I’m so sorry for all the bad experiences and it’s good to hear of some of the good.

this is all so very helpful and you’ve brought up things I haven’t even thought of but it’s also making me extremely hesitant to enter into this journey.

I do so wish we could do day pupil as I truly believe that would be for the best and I really, really don’t want my DC to go away to boarding school but we simply live too far for a daily commute.

I would also consider not doing boarding at all and going to “regular” school till 16 and then contemplating upper schools but my DC is a boy and I suspect being a boy teenager at regular school, he may not want to continue dance at all with all the pressures of being a boy dancer socially amongst teenagers.

Im feeling so unsure about this all …the thought of as you say “the school becoming the parents” is a heartbreaking one for me but it’s also hard to just decide not to enter on this journey with a talented dancing loving child.

I fear if we get swept up in the auditions and subsequent (hopeful)potential  offers of a place somewhere, it’s going to be very hard to turn down….this all feels like life changing decisions not only physically and logistically but also potentially the future mental state of my child and not knowing how that would all go , it’s hard to make that decision.

sorry for my rambling but it’s just been great to hear some actual experiences of parents and children who have gone through all this before embarking on this journey.

For us logistically, it would only really be WL (and the chances of getting in are slim) or Tring so any more experiences of those 2 schools are very welcomed.

 Thanks so much. 

[akh]

1 minute ago, akh said:

 

Hopefully things have changed as in the 80's my child was being bullied at a Vocational School and when I spoke to them about it the response from the Houseparent was" Never mind it will be someone else's turn next week" ! Thankfully an older pupil sorted it out. 

[Balletmummy18]

Well things hadn’t changed re bullying in the last 5 years in my dd last voc school. My dd underwent horrible bullying from one member of her year especially in the last 2 years of her time at voc school. She tried to ask for help but was also dismissed by house staff who were fond of that particular student. 

 

I think you need to get a feel from others’ experiences for the general atmosphere of a school. In our case, the general pressure and competitiveness amongst artistic staff brought out the worse in both house staff and pupils. It was not their fault but being in a toxic environment 24/7 inevitably means that a survival  instinct kicks in and traits like kindness and morals are forgotten.