Sim Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 39 minutes ago, LinMM said: Yes saw a video of her performance yesterday as a friend had posted it! I really enjoyed her performance so graceful but very strong. She really finished her jumps off with confidence and looked fully in control with beautiful extensions. I’ve never seen her before but she has rare qualities. She does indeed. Those quad jumps (love the way she raises her arms to do them)! Those amazing spins! And she’s only 15. A rare talent. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 And she did it to Torvill and Dean's music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnstar Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Sim said: She does indeed. Those quad jumps (love the way she raises her arms to do them)! Those amazing spins! And she’s only 15. A rare talent. The Russian girls in recent years all seem to be competing at the top level by 15. The sad thing is that then most of them seem to retire by the time they're about 20. I remember at the last world championships hearing one of the commentators refer to one of the Russian skaters as a "veteran" - when I looked up her age she was 22! I know sport views age differently but in most sports "veteran" would at least be someone over 30, not someone of 22! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) I’ve just realised that the clip I saw the other day must have been her short programme as wasn’t to Torvil and Deans Bolero music! In this clip she is wearing a flowing purple and pink dress. I was wondering why people said she fell over! Have now seen the Bolero performance also very good but I prefer this shorter programme also part of this years competition. It’s to a piano piece but not sure what it’s called. I’ve not been much of a fan of the “quad” only because trying to get too many triples and quads in usually meant just skating from jump to jump and not much in between but this young lady does appear to have it all. though I’d still like to see more of that beautifully extended arabesque held for slightly longer while travelling on the ice! Anyway definitely worth a look at her short programme too. The piano piece is by a young Russian pianist Kirill Richter and is called “In Memoriam” I think she chose this piece as it’s very personal to her. Edited February 8, 2022 by LinMM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Yes, I preferred her short programme, too. But then, given my allergy to "Bolero" that may not be surprising 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 The music for the Valieva’s short programme is by a Russian composer called Kirill Richter. The piece is called ‘In Memoriam’ and was premiered on 11 October 2019 at the extraordinary red Julier Tower in Switzerland. It is part of Kirill’s composition Russian Requiem, dedicated to all GULAG victims and his great-grandfather. https://www.instagram.com/p/B3eVNCcnPHz It’s the Richter Trio who perform the piece … Kirill Richter (piano), Alena Zinovieva (violin), Avgust Krepak (cello). Kirill is a regular collaborator with Sergei Polunin and is the composer of the music for his ballets ‘Rasputin’, ‘Dante Paradiso’ and ‘Little Red and the Wolf’ as well as at least 3 solos ‘The Frames’ to ‘The Songs of Distant Earth’, ‘The Spear of Mars’ and an excerpt from ‘Chronos’. Interesting co-incidence that Sergei’s partner Elena Ilinykh is an Olympic ice skating champion. Maybe she introduced Kirill to Valieva’s team. Some of Kirill’s music is on Spotify. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 On 06/02/2022 at 17:06, alison said: Kamila Valieva - wow! and now reportedly (Dail Mail, take with pillar of salt) disqualified along with her team for illegal substance use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, oncnp said: and now reportedly (Dail Mail, take with pillar of salt) disqualified along with her team for illegal substance use. More widely reported in the press now. Blummin' 'eck what a tragedy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Jan McNulty said: More widely reported in the press now. Blummin' 'eck what a tragedy. Thanks. The Mail was the only report I saw that named her specifically as the "offender". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, oncnp said: Thanks. The Mail was the only report I saw that named her specifically as the "offender". It is so tragic because Russian competitors have to compete under the ROC banner as Russia itself was banned because of persistent drug usage (voluntary or not) and now here we are again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I don’t know what drug she is supposed to have used but in a performance of quality like that I can’t think of any drug that would have enhanced it except if it was to calm nerves!! If it’s a team thing then shame on her team as she is only 15 so gross exploitation. Considering the position that Russia is in regarding this it seems hugely negligent. What a shame for a young skater with the talent of Valieva. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oncnp Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, LinMM said: I don’t know what drug she is supposed to have used but in a performance of quality like that I can’t think of any drug that would have enhanced it except if it was to calm nerves!! If it’s a team thing then shame on her team as she is only 15 so gross exploitation. Considering the position that Russia is in regarding this it seems hugely negligent. What a shame for a young skater with the talent of Valieva. Trimetazidine and Doping: Angina Drug Banned in Sports Emerges in Olympics News – NBC New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Some quite disturbing reporting in this article (if you can get past the rather silly headline): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/winter-olympics/2022/02/10/dark-truth-behind-beauty-figure-skating/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: Some quite disturbing reporting in this article (if you can get past the rather silly headline): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/winter-olympics/2022/02/10/dark-truth-behind-beauty-figure-skating/ Very disturbing. (I also wonder why such a drug should even be allowed out of competition, unless there's clear proof of medical need which I simply don't believe would be the case for young people like this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 hours ago, bridiem said: Very disturbing. (I also wonder why such a drug should even be allowed out of competition, unless there's clear proof of medical need which I simply don't believe would be the case for young people like this.) I wonder that too. Presumably there's an (unfair) advantage to be had from using it to allow more intensive training? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: I wonder that too. Presumably there's an (unfair) advantage to be had from using it to allow more intensive training? I assume so. Giving unnecessary medication to minors is basically child abuse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Some much clearer and apparently confirmed details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60329120 I don't know what Rusada are playing at. I also feel very sorry for Valieva, who may well have had little to no say in any of this. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 It really is very sad. Now knowing who her coach is this lady’s name comes up not infrequently in the skating world as she seems to choose very young girls to peak at the age of 15 and career over by 17 as mentioned in the above article. It’s the quads which score the points and why such young girls are required. We don’t then hear about all the injuries. Perhaps the skating world needs to look at this. There is something hugely wrong with it all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I do know that certain Russian and other Iron Curtain skaters and gymnasts were given tablets with the bland explanation that they were vitamins and take them. They now wonder what they really were. Plus ca change… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 30 minutes ago, Fiz said: I do know that certain Russian and other Iron Curtain skaters and gymnasts were given tablets with the bland explanation that they were vitamins and take them. They now wonder what they really were. Plus ca change… Olga Korbut springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meetmeatthebarre Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 hour ago, LinMM said: It really is very sad. Now knowing who her coach is this lady’s name comes up not infrequently in the skating world as she seems to choose very young girls to peak at the age of 15 and career over by 17 as mentioned in the above article. It’s the quads which score the points and why such young girls are required. We don’t then hear about all the injuries. Perhaps the skating world needs to look at this. There is something hugely wrong with it all. I was pointed to a Russian article which claims that the Council of the ISU has put forth a proposal to raise the age limit over the next 2 years, which will be considered by the Congress this summer. I don't speak Russian, but have posted the Google Translate below. I think this unfortunate situation has highlighted another reason to do so, beyond the protection of physical and mental health. If athletes aren't old enough to be held responsible for their actions, should they be old enough to compete on the biggest stage? (Yes, there are Worlds, junior competitions etc. but none seen as prestigious as the Olympics.) If ROC can keep their Team Gold and Valieva is allowed to compete in the Women's Singles on the basis that she is a minor, there's even more incentive to field younger skaters. I think it unlikely that a 15 year old could and would think to obtain performance-enhancing medication of her own accord, especially with how closely the Eteri squad are monitored; I feel bad for her either way. Even if she is allowed to skate, any victory will be clouded. At least most of the commentary I've read appears to be sympathetic towards her herself. https://matchtv-ru.translate.goog/figure-skating/matchtvnews_NI1484050_Sovet_ISU_vystupil_za_poetapnoje_podnatije_vozrastnogo_cenza_v_figurnom_katanii__istochnik?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I think it’s the points system which needs changing though too. If too much value is given to a quad so that say one quad means you can win a competition ( no matter the quality of the skate) then there’s no incentive to change practice. If they put the senior age up ( a good idea though) then you just look for skaters who fit the “quad body” ideal (if no doubt delaying puberty still plays a part in all this) If there wasn’t such a huge point differential between a triple and a quad then probably fewer skaters would go for the quad because of the extra risks involved and the overall skating quality …hopefully …would go up. Valieva is more unusual in that inspite of all the jumps she still skates beautifully. The extra power being that much older would bring to the ice in normal circumstances would enhance most skaters quality even hers! Otherwise you just have to accept that times have changed and give in and let skating go the way of gymnastics and other more acrobatic sports (including some snow boarding for example) which definitely suits smaller and younger bodies and just agree that in some sports your career will be over by the age of 18!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Jason Brown of US is a good example. No quads but beautiful skate. He didn’t win of course 😥 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Another thing they could do is limit the number of hours under 16s (or whatever) are allowed to train, but it would have to be quite aggressively policed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 The mental toll on Valieva right now must be unimaginable. I am so sorry for her. I’d like to believe she is a victim in this situation. The whole thing is just too awful. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 6 hours ago, Meetmeatthebarre said: I think this unfortunate situation has highlighted another reason to do so, beyond the protection of physical and mental health. If athletes aren't old enough to be held responsible for their actions, should they be old enough to compete on the biggest stage? But then of course that will extend far beyond just figure skating - what about Sky Brown and her fellow competitors in skateboarding, for example? The same would have to apply to them. Hmm ... What does this imply, if anything, for the rest of the Russian Olympic Committee team? I thought the whole point was that their athletes were all untainted from any Russian doping programme? If one turns out not to be, are they all tainted? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meetmeatthebarre Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, alison said: But then of course that will extend far beyond just figure skating - what about Sky Brown and her fellow competitors in skateboarding, for example? The same would have to apply to them. Hmm ... What does this imply, if anything, for the rest of the Russian Olympic Committee team? I thought the whole point was that their athletes were all untainted from any Russian doping programme? If one turns out not to be, are they all tainted? Not necessarily. Each sport governs themselves outside of the IOC. And I would argue that the following combine in women's skating in particular: a) the anatomical incentive to field pre-pubescent athletes due to the physics isn't quite the same in other sports (except perhaps gymnastics), b) the strain is different - more risk of acute injuries from accidents in snow sports than wear and tear as seen in skating, and c) skating a programme is intense cardio/stamina as well as skill for those jumps. Skateboarding is a bit too new to judge, but if we take snowboarding, and women in particular (because of puberty and the strength to weight ratio), it is entirely common for competitors in their mid to late 20s to medal at the Olympics. Gravity works with you in obtaining the speeds needed to clear the air time in the snow sports aerials before it works against you in landing the elements; gravity only works against you in skating. For snowboarding, being repeat Olympians is common; in figure skating it's a bit hard to compare as the quad revolution has been so recent (and even before then, retiring in the teens and early twenties was common), but podiums where the Russians (with the quads) are eligible to compete by geography skew overwhelmingly young. One finds older female elite skaters in e.g. pairs and ice dance, but it's a different story (very few quads, and limited benefit to being tiny in the pairs exclusive elements except perhaps the twists - I speak as someone who has skated, albeit at a low level, and managed to have pairs spins and death spirals capable of scoring well above the jumps that my partner and I used to do). I'm not saying that all sports should be limited to the age in which one is considered responsible for one's own actions. But if there are also other reasons to skew young for the particular sport: the incentive to delay puberty, long term physical toll on athletes doing too much too young, AND the need for intense bursts of energy, then the incentive to dope grows for either the athlete (or their team, if a minor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 What seems ridiculous is that the test in question was done on Christmas Day but apparently the result only came a few days ago. Surely the results of tests should be available more quickly, and especially with top sportspeople and above all BEFORE big competitions not in the middle of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meetmeatthebarre Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, bridiem said: What seems ridiculous is that the test in question was done on Christmas Day but apparently the result only came a few days ago. Surely the results of tests should be available more quickly, and especially with top sportspeople and above all BEFORE big competitions not in the middle of them. I could get into that but it's all about jurisdiction and a mess, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannette Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 11/02/2022 at 17:16, bridiem said: What seems ridiculous is that the test in question was done on Christmas Day but apparently the result only came a few days ago. Surely the results of tests should be available more quickly, and especially with top sportspeople and above all BEFORE big competitions not in the middle of them. Veteran US sports journalist, Phil Hersh, may have expressed it best during an interview on the Peacock Streaming Network’s show Olympic Ice: Was Valieva’s sample purposely transported to Stockholm by an old Russian sleigh, moving across the Baltic Sea? Hersh also quipped: Going by these methods, we should learn the results of the figure skating Team Event by 2036. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I think Russia have been banned from testing their own athletes in Russia (which may have been quicker) so have to send samples abroad etc. Apparently the Laboratory have said that Covid played a part in them getting behind with testing and that also they had the Summer Olympics to do and have never had two Olympics in one year before!! However funny as Hersh’s comments are I don’t think for one minute Team Tutberidze expected the sample to come back as positive!! It doesn’t bode well for Valieva getting any support when her coach said she was absolutely sure it would be proved her student was pure and clean!! As if it hadn’t even entered her head that Valieva would take it upon herself to take this drug all on her own 🙄 I still feel for Valieva as she would have won the competition anyway without the drug and without the quad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) A further update on the matter from the BBC. Apparently her sample actually showed 3 drugs usually used for treating heart conditions, which can increase stamina and reduce fatigue. Strangely, the other two are not banned substances, but if she was using those two, it seems highly likely that she was taking the third one as well.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/60399339 I think the whole issue is being handled very badly. The girl is only 15, which means she will have plenty of other opportunities. By allowing her to continue, it taints the whole of the event, and damages the reputation of the entire Olympics. It isn't fair on the other competitors, because no matter how brilliantly they do, the only thing this will be remembered for is a drug scandal. Edited February 16, 2022 by Fonty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 I read that she claimed that she drank from the same glas as her Grandfather who happens to take 3rd (banned) drug to treat heart problems. 🙄 it IS possible but....c'mon.... Also, she did take (not banned) drugs. As probably other athletes do too, let's be honest. The actual problem I see is that the IOC banned "RUSSIA" but not Russian athletes. This soo wrong, ridiculous and doesn't help at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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