nottsballetlover Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Apparently I have inadvertently upset someone on this forum with one of my posts. I sincerely apologise. Having said that, I was doing my usual gushing about a show and just wanting to relate to people around me, given I am usually seeing a show on my own. I just love ballet and just always wanted to share my views. This forum just got so difficult lately. I never wanted to upset anyone but seems I accidentally did. So sorry. I now won't post anymore on this forum. Edited March 16, 2018 by nottsballetlover 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveclassics Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Dear Nottsballetlover, Don't let this put you off. I've been reading this forum since 2004 (when it was Ballet.co) and I've often seen some people take exception over relatively trivial matters. Most of them fade away with time but the real fans of ballet who support the forum are much more open-minded and tolerant. This is a unique website and worth sticking with. Spats flare up occasionally but soon disappear so don't let it worry you. True enthusiasts are always welcome and I'm sure others will agree with me. Linda Edited March 16, 2018 by loveclassics Grammar 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Notts, please don’t stop posting. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Nottsballet lover....I love your posts and it's obvious you love ballet...so we need you! Hope you will still carry on. Sometimes I think people are really upset about something else completely and then go onto a Forum or Facebook etc and suddenly take it out on some post that they wouldn't normally react so strongly too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coated Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I really enjoy reading your posts and think it would be a real shame if you stopped. If it helps, I could be really offended if you stopped posting, so you need to keep going to avoid upsetting a poster on here? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottsballetlover Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Thanks folks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrhblack Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 12 hours ago, nottsballetlover said: Apparently I have inadvertently upset someone on this forum with one of my posts. I sincerely apologise. Having said that, I was doing my usual gushing about a show and just wanting to relate to people around me, given I am usually seeing a show on my own. I just love ballet and just always wanted to share my views. This forum just got so difficult lately. I never wanted to upset anyone but seems I accidentally did. So sorry. I now won't post anymore on this forum. I absolutely understand your position. I have long enjoyed reading this forum and sharing my views but, of late, I have found that if I have had the temerity to wax less than lyrically eulogistic the opprobrium strikes and I too am minded not to contribute further. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I'm very saddened to read the posts from nottsballetlover and Jamesrhblack and do hope very much that they continue to contribute to the Forum. We all benefit from a sharing of views and learn much from the experiences of others and, certainly in my case, the significantly greater knowledge posters have and are prepared to draw upon. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina G. Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Similar to notsoballetlover and Jamesrhblack. I have decided after many years reading the Forum and enjoying it not to post my thoughts anymore, this is likely to be my last one too; especially after that "Snowflake, - no not another..." debate which frankly annoyed me greatly so I stopped reading it. Personally I felt communicating on the Forum became increasingly unpleasant compared to many years ago. I belong to a different generation and we communicated very differently. Many many thanks to the wonderful moderators who always do their utmost best to keep this Forum a civilised communication platform. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillykins Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 So sad to read these posts. The forum is such a source of enjoyment to me,I love sharing and agreeing and disagreeing with peoples opinions. Thank goodness we do feel passionately about the arts! I love to mentally disagree with some posts but don’t like offensive or hurtful remarks. There was a time I worked with interesting colleagues and we had some wonderful agreements and disagreements but now due to age and Ill health my social life is limited. I’m not complaining but trying to say home much I appreciate the views of everybody on the forum. I am always nervous about posting,afraid of saying something silly due to some memory problems but trust the moderators to look after us all. I am really excited looking forward to Winters Tale next Wednesday and reading all the comments. To the offended people please stay with us, I value all contributions as long as they are not hurtful or offensive. Like Janet says ballet keeps me sane! 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottsballetlover Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 No, I was definitely in the wrong on the post concerned and as I said, I'm really sorry for causing upset to someone else. Social media is so tricky especially at my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Nina G. said: Similar to notsoballetlover and Jamesrhblack. I have decided after many years reading the Forum and enjoying it not to post my thoughts anymore, this is likely to be my last one too; especially after that "Snowflake, - no not another..." debate which frankly annoyed me greatly so I stopped reading it. Personally I felt communicating on the Forum became increasingly unpleasant compared to many years ago. I belong to a different generation and we communicated very differently. Many many thanks to the wonderful moderators who always do their utmost best to keep this Forum a civilised communication platform. I'd like to 'like' your post and I could of course do so as I agree with what you say about the moderators but I wouldn't wish to 'like' the deep sadness in your post. I'm so very much hoping that you'll feel able to continue posting your views on the Forum which I read with great interest. The Forum is richer because of contributions from you and so many others. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Please continue to post! I enjoy your contributions to the forum. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Nina G. said: Similar to notsoballetlover and Jamesrhblack. I have decided after many years reading the Forum and enjoying it not to post my thoughts anymore, this is likely to be my last one too; especially after that "Snowflake, - no not another..." debate which frankly annoyed me greatly so I stopped reading it. Personally I felt communicating on the Forum became increasingly unpleasant compared to many years ago. I belong to a different generation and we communicated very differently. Many many thanks to the wonderful moderators who always do their utmost best to keep this Forum a civilised communication platform. I do hope you don't leave us, Nina. I so enjoy reading your posts. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Hello, once again I am writing this both as Chair of the forum committee and as a ballet lover and poster on this site. I, and the other moderators, are sad that there are some who feel they no longer wish to post here because of the recent tone of some of the threads. The 'snowflake' thread was particularly harmful, but sometimes things start one way and turn out another.....this happens in all aspects of life: career, marriage, holidays, friendships, etc. When things hurt us, or don't keep going the way they had been, we have to make decisions and deal with it. So, if your decision is not to post here anymore, so be it, but that would be a great pity. Everyone has the right to state their own opinions on this forum, within the parameters of our AUP. We wrote the AUP with the express purpose of protecting our posters from nastiness or disrespect. As was mentioned in the 'snowflake' thread, the written word can often be misconstrued, and offence taken where none is meant. Yes, we know very well that people can and do write nasty things here, and as soon as we become aware of it we take appropriate action. For example, we have banned one particularly nasty poster from the site. After we had words with a couple of others, they are no longer members of this forum. Sometimes, as with a house that gets full of stuff, a good clearout is needed. Another metaphor is a marriage or relationship; sometimes, after a long time, you need to have a big row to clear the air and move forward afresh. We hope that that is what will happen here. We have a lot of support from our extensive membership, almost all of whom are respectful of the opinions of others. We sincerely hope that you don't let one or two bad apples contaminate the whole bunch. The moderators all believe very strongly that this is a fun and informative place for all of us who share our common passion....if we didn't, we certainly wouldn't have spent the past six years of our lives running it every day of every one of those years. We are all very happy to do so for the next six years, as long as people are happy and that this place continues to be the thriving exchange of views that it has been. Let me reassure everyone once again that the moderators do their best to draw a fine line between giving people the freedom to say what they want, whilst at the same time ensuring that they stay within the rules set out by us to protect all of you. Yes, people may disagree, sometimes vehemently so, with what you say, but the purpose of a forum is to have debate and discussion. Our job as moderators is to keep such debate and disagreement respectful. It can be done! On the Bernstein thread DaveXM and I completely disagree on this bill; I wrote a negative review and Dave simply said he disagreed totally and loved it. I said I was pleased he loved it. Or recently when BristolBillyBob and I had a disagreement on a thread; he apologised, I accepted, and we ended up having a bit of a love-in instead. There are civilised ways of disagreeing with each other, and I hope that the forum will go in that direction once again, to a greater degree than it has been recently in certain areas. We can't guarantee this; things used to get hot and nasty on the the ballet.co site many years ago, which is one of the main reasons Bruce closed it down. When this does happen, we will always do our best to calm things down and keep it equable. But the fact is, where there are humans, there are disputes, no matter where and in what sector. It's just the way it is, and we all have to deal with it. As they say, "there's nowt as queer as folk." We will of course respect whatever you decide to do, but we think it would be a shame for such good, interesting members to stop posting. Please remember that if something bothers you, or you feel someone has crossed a line, simply use the report button to let us know, and we will take appropriate action. I reiterate once again that the moderators have a no-tolerance approach to nastiness or rudeness, and people who take this attitude to their fellow forum members will be banned from this site, as we have demonstrated. Finally, we wish you all well, whether you remain as members here or not, and hope that you have many ballet performances to enjoy in the future. It would just be a pity if you didn't share your thoughts and opinions on them with us. With best wishes to all, Sim 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I am relatively new to the forum but love the mix of opinions here. We don’t all have to like the same things but we all have a right to an opinion especially when substantiated. The world (including the world of ballet) would be a very dull place if we all thought the same way. I’ve slated something before because I genuinely found it awful and no one agreed with me, which was a bit upsetting but it didn’t invalidate the way I felt. And perhaps someone else felt the same but chose not to post. Sometimes I even disagree with the critics who are more expert than me but I am posting with regards to my personal taste. I love the forum because my ‘ballet buddy’ is no longer here to share my passion and there are very few people I can have an in depth discussion with, plus fewer to none who will have seen exactly the same performance providing an opportunity to swap thoughts. Don’t stop posting, constructive criticism and debate should continue! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I remember on the old forum I said that I disliked a particular dancer and was reprimanded so elegantly that it made me laugh. That poster had class! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Two issues were highlighted on the Snowflake thread which maybe deserve a little elaboration: * Some people have said that criticism could hurt the feelings of dancers or whoever. That is probably true - criticism can hurt - but that is no reason not to be (sincerely, thoughtfully, respectfully etc, see AUP) critical. If one chooses to work as a traffic warden, one is likely to be yelled at sometimes: it goes with the job. If one chooses to work as a nurse, one will occasionally see dead bodies: it goes with the job. And if one chooses to work as a performer or other creative professional, one will be criticised: it goes with the job. So to seek to cut out criticism from a Forum dedicated to art and showbusiness seems not only unrealistic but to undermine the very reason to have a Forum. * ENB management and associated matters. I wrote on The Times thread, maybe not quite clearly enough, about the difficulties of relying on the reporting there has been to date, which I need not repeat. But the discussion - both on and off the Forum - seems to be slowly adopting less of a manichean black/white binary cut on how to see things, which is surely to the good. A Forum is - by definition - not the right place to seek to close down all opinion except one's own, however strongly one feels one is right. So, after reflecting on the discussions of the last weeks, come on people: practice listening to others, keep to the rules, but don't stop saying what you think. IMHO. Edited March 17, 2018 by Geoff 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) On 3/16/2018 at 23:06, nottsballetlover said: Apparently I have inadvertently upset someone on this forum with one of my posts. I sincerely apologise. Having said that, I was doing my usual gushing about a show and just wanting to relate to people around me, given I am usually seeing a show on my own. I just love ballet and just always wanted to share my views. This forum just got so difficult lately. I never wanted to upset anyone but seems I accidentally did. So sorry. I now won't post anymore on this forum. You are not alone, Nottsballet lover. I retired from here a few weeks back although I still read the posts as they can be really informative and I enjoy so many of them and have learnt a great deal. The humour has quite gone, however. Like yourself, I also attend a fair amount of performances on my own so used to post on the train going home, the adrenalin still swirling and just wanting to bubble (or possibly babble!) on about my passion for ballet and opera. I fought a strong rearguard action at what I saw as an extreme Snowflake mentality taking over, neatly encapsulated by a Nutcracker/Snowflake thread which contained the following statement from the OP: 'Recent examples include criticism of particular dancers and their costumes, and of ballet companies and their internal procedures (notwithstanding press articles and blogs).' I found it astounding that anyone could make this statement on a website dedicated to discussing ballet but although the moderators (and yes, they do a wonderful job) talk the talk about freedom of expression, the reality is that one is jumped all over if ones critique is less than euphoric. I gave up after falling foul of a poster whose dancer daughter might apparently be upset if there was any criticism of dancing - her post asking me accusingly if I had a daughter who was a dancer. I knew my time was up. Similarly, didn't know - whether to laugh or cry when on the same thread it was suggested that costumes or anything else that wasn't the 'fault' of the dancers should also not be criticised. Well, I suppose there's still the weather.... My advice to you Notsballet lover is to continue posting because you enjoy it and you have garnered a lot of support from people who do suddenly seem to be beginning to realise that there is a problem. I just wish others had fought the fight with me. Hey-ho. I shall go and watch the snow - again! Edited March 18, 2018 by penelopesimpson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, penelopesimpson said: Similarly, didn't know - whether to laugh or cry when on the same thread it was suggested that costumes or anything else that wasn't the 'fault' of the dancers should also not be criticised. No, Penelope, it was suggested that dancers should not be criticised for things which weren't their "fault": there's a difference. If you don't like the designs, you're perfectly at liberty to say so. Let's not resuscitate all those arguments on this thread, please. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 At the ROH this evening, my eye was caught by this on the cast sheet: Psalm 133:1 Behold how good, And how pleasant it is, For brethren to dwell Together in unity. It seemed very apposite, somehow. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 7 hours ago, penelopesimpson said: I found it astounding that anyone could make this statement on a website dedicated to discussing ballet but although the moderators (and yes, they do a wonderful job) talk the talk about freedom of expression, the reality is that one is jumped all over if ones critique is less than euphoric. I don't want to go over all the same discussion from the Snowflakes thread, but I must point out that this is simply not the case. I have often posted negative comments and never been 'jumped all over' by anyone, not even once. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I think it was either my first or second ever post when someone responded in what I thought was a 'sharp' reply. I must admit I was surprised and for an instant I questioned my post, opinion etc. But only for an instant because before I knew it several members 'liked' my post and responded to the 'sharp' reply. And I also realised that she had her opinion but I also had mine that we won't always agree. I could either let the sharp retort bother me - or not. I chose not. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 13 hours ago, alison said: No, Penelope, it was suggested that dancers should not be criticised for things which weren't their "fault": there's a difference. If you don't like the designs, you're perfectly at liberty to say so. Let's not resuscitate all those arguments on this thread, please. I rest my case! You make my point for me, I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I posted this originally on the Snowflake thread, but from the comments that have been made, it would appear that many people are no longer reading that thread. So I will post it over here as well. I read this on the BBC website yesterday, and I think it is brilliant example of how on line communication can result in misunderstanding, and escalate into something completely different as a result.:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43387879 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penelopesimpson Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Fonty said: I posted this originally on the Snowflake thread, but from the comments that have been made, it would appear that many people are no longer reading that thread. So I will post it over here as well. I read this on the BBC website yesterday, and I think it is brilliant example of how on line communication can result in misunderstanding, and escalate into something completely different as a result.:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43387879 Great humour. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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