Your ROH ticket purchase patterns for Autumn 2023 - have they changed?

[Silke H]

I have bought fewer tickets than before, partly due to lack of cast info (Nutcracker), partly because of ticket price increase and partly because I'm simply not interested in the ballet/s (Dante, Cellist)

 

4 Don Q

3 Anemoi (skipping The Cellist) - includes Friends Rehearsal

3 The Limit

6 Nutcracker

1 Insight (The Limit)

[San Perregrino]

10 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

To be honest I think I've gone a bit over the top with the Dantes

 

i'd say you've reached The Limit 😉 

[Sim]

38 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Oh god, I've just counted my trips:

 

 

17  - Don Q (one a rehearsal)

5 - Cellist

2 - Dante

1 - Limit

17 - Nutcracker

 

 

Good Lord!!!  You will keep the ROH going on your ticket purchases alone, even standing!!  😂

[zxDaveM]

38 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Oh god, I've just counted my trips:

 

 

17  - Don Q (one a rehearsal)

5 - Cellist

2 - Dante

1 - Limit

17 - Nutcracker

 

 

 

😳 😎

[Dawnstar]

31 minutes ago, bridiem said:

I didn't know there were that many performances!!

 

Yes, I just looked at Rob's list & thought "Are there are many as 17 Don Q performances?!" as I'd thought there were 7 casts with all but one cast having 2 performances each but evidently there are more than I thought.

[Sim]

Don Q - 9

Anemoi/Cellist - 1

Dante - 1

Nut - 3

 

So, quite a lot fewer than usual, but I am not enamoured of the rep between October - January.  DonQ would have been 2 if they hadn't lowered the SCS prices back to where they should be.  So maybe I will get to Paris or Zurich with the money I have saved on first period tickets!  

[Mary]

I would like to add that the rep is a big factor in limiting my visits this coming year - it seems there are quite a lot of people feeling like that.

 

[Dawnstar]

I wish I didn't want to see as much of the rep! It would be much easier that way, rather than wanting to see everything (apart from the Dante Project) and the majority of it with several different casts but not being able to afford to see as many casts as I want to.

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, Rob S said:

Oh god, I've just counted my trips:

 

 

17  - Don Q (one a rehearsal)

5 - Cellist

2 - Dante

1 - Limit

17 - Nutcracker

 

 

Keep it up @Rob S ! ...your curtain call photos are so special and always looked out for. 

Perhaps your trips should be aided by a special  BcF funding pool ?!? 🤭

Edited August 4, 2023 by Richard LH

[San Perregrino]

21 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Yes, I just looked at Rob's list & thought "Are there are many as 17 Don Q performances?!" as I'd thought there were 7 casts with all but one cast having 2 performances each but evidently there are more than I thought.

 

there are 18 Don Qs (Nov 7th included) plus the general rehearsal. 8 pairings

Nunez/Mutagirov have 3 each

O'Sullivan/McRae have 3 each

Osipova has 4 but with two partners: Sambe & Clarke

everyone else has 2 shows

[Tango Dancer]

Whereas my list is

 

Don Q (cinema relay)

Nut (cinema relay)

Giselle (ENB Akram Khan)

Northern Ballet Generations

Matthew Bourne's R&J

Ballet Black

 

I will also see Sleeping Beauty (BRB) next year but haven't decided where and if they do a gala at the Symphony Hall I'll do that as well.  I also want to do NB's Romeo and Juliet and see what else I like the look of.   I tend to be someone who wants to see a wide variety of things rather than seeing multiple performers doing the same ballet.  That's purely my preference.  

 

I'm finding better ticket prices and interesting repertoire elsewhere a bit more now as both BRB and NB seem to be doing some great stuff. ROH seems very expensive in comparison.     

 

[Beryl H]

I haven't booked as many as I usually do, the repetory is not very exciting, plus the appalling train situation, I've just had to cancel today's performance and probably will have to cancel Sunday's too.

 

The DQ prices for the amphi didn't help either,(still wondering what the idea was) although I bought 3, only one Cellist to see the second cast, and 2 Nutcrackers. I've got 1 Dante and will book another if there is a second cast. 

 

 

 

 

 

[art_enthusiast]

I also went for far less than I normally would. No Nuctrackers, but I don’t usually go to this one anyway (I will try to catch ENB’s or BRB’S one). I would have liked to see Joseph Sissens/Mariko Sasaski though.

 

Unfortunately I have not yet seen the RB’s Don Quixote live, so I did feel compelled to book a few. I saw BRB’S version twice last year and loved it, I assume this version will be the same with slightly different sets and costumes?

 

Only chose absolute must-see casts for me: Osipova/Sambe, Takada/Acri and Magri/Corrales. I have watched Marianela’s Kitri so many times on ROH stream that I didn’t book for hers, though I would have if the prices weren’t as high!

 

Also means I won’t be catching Fumi’s Kitri this time. (I will be saving for her Manon - looking forward to when the casts will be announced for this?)

 

Also intrigued by O’Sullivan’s debut but unfortunately not able to make it, a mixture of prices and other work related demands on my time.

 

For Amenoi/the Cellist I booked one for each cast, as I have not yet seen this live. Both look interesting based on the older rehearsal clips I have watched on YouTube.

 

1 for Dante because I absolutely loved it last time (I probably went about 6 times then!) I may book another after they announce the casts.

 

1 for The Limit as I think the play it’s based on sounds like an intriguing concept.

 

1 for Northern ballet as I haven’t seen much of them at all before - except for their Great Gatsby this year which I loved.

 

None for Ballet Black unfortunately, as this time the dates don’t work for me. I fortunately caught the same bill at the Barbican earlier this year, which was brilliant.

 

Managed to grab some affordable ish opera ones - only 2 overall.

 

I’m more concerned about the bookings for next year - I’m going to have to see Manon at least a few times as I’ve never seen it live! Ditto the Winter’s Tale. Probably will book at most 2 Swan Lakes, as I saw it so often last year. The triple bills look very appealing too.

[Swan]

I’m just catching up with today’s comments and I have to say that I’ve found this a really interesting thread! 😃

[capybara]

4 hours ago, PeterS said:

 

there are 18 Don Qs (Nov 7th included) plus the general rehearsal. 8 pairings

Nunez/Mutagirov have 3 each

O'Sullivan/McRae have 3 each

Osipova has 4 but with two partners: Sambe & Clarke

everyone else has 2 shows

Ball also now has 4 Basilios - 2 with Naghdi and 2 with Magri. 

[San Perregrino]

4 minutes ago, capybara said:

4 hours ago, PeterS said:

 

Ball also now has 4 Basilios

and in the last run he danced both Basilio and Espada albeit on different nights 

[OnePigeon]

I splashed out on some horribly expensive Nutcracker tickets for my child’s Xmas present which has meant I can’t book Don Q until nearer the time.  I’m crossing my fingers I can get tickets in my budget for the cast I want - not that I’m entirely sure which cast I want to see most yet. I don’t really fancy anything else this season and there are quite a few plays and concerts coming up that I’d rather see.  I haven’t seen Manon for years, so I’ll be booking for that and also saving up for the Ashton triples.  I can happily live without ever seeing Swan Lake again to be quite honest, so don’t think I’ll be visiting much in the near future.

[Emeralds]

On 04/08/2023 at 12:35, art_enthusiast said:

 

What is more effective from a financial standpoint? Slashing everything unsold for a lower price closer to the time, or having more reasonable prices from the beginning?

 

Just curious.

That’s the 65 million dollar question. 😉 Of course, in reality, or to be precise, the boring world of statistics balanced with an overview/following of public forums and speaking to fans without letting on who you are (maybe won’t work if you are Messrs O’Hare and Beard, as their photos are available in the ROH programmes).

 

There’s a balance as to how high you go versus how much you keep “subsidising” patrons who can well afford to pay more. It has been known for decades/ages that ballet (by RB and similar top dance companies) is cheaper than A list pop gigs, operas or premier league football. So I guess one day the management decided “let’s stop allowing this to be a thing. Let’s charge what our company and dancers are worth”. I think the Giselle and Romeo and Juliet prices in 2021-2022 were reasonable. (The Ashton triple bill prices in 2022 should have been slightly higher.) I think the Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella prices were too much.

 

That’s nothing to do with how much the dancers are worth but how many people are out there who can actually fill the seats at those prices. If they only had 6 shows of each, you can charge that. Not if you have over 12 performances (that’s including the May Sleeping Beauty shows) each. 

 

On 04/08/2023 at 13:18, alison said:

 

Absolutely.  It's a bit of a dead giveaway when you see students in uniform in the posh seats.

 

Someone - maybe bridiem? - did argue elsewhere, some time ago, that it was probably better financially to increase the prices and then sell some at a discount.  I can't remember the exact reasoning.

I think that was me and Lizbie1....and anyone else who joined in. That’s worth doing if you can balance the high initial price with how many unsold  seats at the high price you get.  The way it works is like thus: if you have 2000 seats (let’s keep all the prices the same for simplicity) that used to sell at £50 each, you collected £100,000 if everything sold out. If now you sell them at £70 each, and all 2000 sell, you’ve increased your takings by £40,000- yahoo! If 100 seats don’t sell you have still made £33,000 more, whether or not you discount the unsold seats or give them to staff, ballet students etc.  You can apply this arithmetic to lower and higher priced seats in the theatre as long as the increase is proportional. But if you don’t sell half your tickets, you have only made £70,000 which is £30,000 less than at your old price- that’s bad! Unfortunately the box office/finance team didn’t get the formula right and increased the price by too much. Also, sales have a momentum- if sales are very very slow and lots are still unsold, the public thinks  it’s not a good show and if uncertain to start off with, are less inclined to buy! If a production is almost sold out and they were unsure, many think, oh it’s must be good, look how fast it’s selling, and they’ll buy tickets till none are left (even seats over £100 partly blocked by a pillar). 

 

There’s no magic formula to how much you increase - the variables are what % you increase it from the last time you put the show on, how few shows there are, and how sought after the production and stars are.....unfortunately the last point can’t be quantified with numbers! What I mean is, eg if Yasmine Naghdi or Francesca Hayward went to dance in Beijing or Houston for two shows of Sleeping Beauty now, they could probably charge even 50% more than the Sleeping Beauty prices we had in January (that struggled to sell) and the tickets will be sold out. That’s because not many people there have seen them dance. But in London, many have seen them in Sleeping Beauty already or will see them in something else next month  so there’s no incentive to pay 50% more. If there had only been 6 or 7 performances of Sleeping Beauty, the tickets would be sold out within a fortnight. Paradoxically, companies can’t always “milk” certain classics as much as they think. At the moment, you can put on 15 shows of Nutcracker and Swan Lake, and 12 of Romeo & Juliet, at RB and they’ll sell well. Not the other classics. There’s still a limit though- top price £160 yes. Not £260! That’s too high an increase from the last time the same production and many of the same casts were on.

 

Also, compared to operas, ballet is still a relatively “young” theatre art and there are fewer classics in repertoire so most have been seen and re-seen quite often. When the Royal Opera mounted Agrippina, they could charge £250 a ticket for a new unknown production not just because it had a few big stars (Di Donato, Iestyn Davies, Lucy Crowe etc) but because it was ages and ages since it had last been performed so a lot of people wanted to see it for the first time (and might not necessarily see La Boheme for the 30th time unless there was a lead singer they really wanted to see.) Everything sold out. And interestingly- not as many performances of it as the Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella performances. My standing ticket was over £20. (Well it was either that or £250 when I could see several Manons or Onegins for that!) PS it was worth it! 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Emeralds

[alison]

Ah, sorry, I was getting lizbie and Bridie mixed up again!

[Bruce Wall]

Deleted - see below

Edited August 7, 2023 by Bruce Wall

[Bruce Wall]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Wall said:

Mine can be summed up as 'bought less; paid more'. 

 

DQ - 3
Cellist - 2
Dante - 6 (You get to see the greatest range of the Company here - and they look so comfortable in it)
Limit - 1
Northern - 3
Nutcracker - 3

[LinMM]

My buying habits changed already quite a bit since about 2018 when I found I couldn’t sit in the Amphi anymore. 
I started sitting in the Balcony ( as well as standing) and enjoyed it there so much that’s where I go for my first choice performances. I usually see two casts of the things I like (so depends on each season) and then try for a SCS standing for any extras I might want to see.
However in this past year even row D in the Balcony has become very expensive so will soon be mostly down to one main cast for productions I want to see …though can sometimes go to two of my preferred ballets if am missing some other productions. 
If prices go up even more in the Balcony than they already have I will only be able to stand to see most productions ….with just occasional sitting treats and go to more cinema streamings than I currently do.  

This Autumn where ROH is concerned 

I’m seeing 2x Don Q, ( I may stand for a 3rd) 2x Nutcracker, 1x Northern, and undecided about the Cellist but could be just one performance of that with a cast not seen( so Magri’s cast) 

Thats it! 
I am going to see other Companies but the prices to see them are much more reasonable for me anyway. 
I try to go to ballets etc when already in London which is regularly in term times usually mid week to save on additional train fares etc which is why Saturdays are not so good for me as they are usually for most people who live outside London. 

[Emeralds]

I think ROH should consider bringing back the packages/subscription and looking into the step up type of subscription  that some successful orchestras use. Eg something like if you buy 3 or 4, you get 5% off, if you buy 5-7, you get 10% off, if you buy more than that it’s 15% off. It’s not confined to any particular seating areas.

 

The discount is for the whole season. So even if you book the May and June concerts later than the September to December ones, they will calculate your discount based on what you’ve already bought eg if you bought 5 concerts for September to January, you don’t start again at 5% if you buy two concerts in May and one in June- you’ll get 15% off.  (You just can’t start the subscription after the season has begun.) Whereas the old ROH packages handcuffed you to buying every ballet except Nutcracker and can’t remember what the opera exceptions were (maybe Magic Flute or varies every season). Also they were a bit dodgy in always giving a smaller discount for ballet than operas!

 

Anyway.....we shall see how this booking period pans out!

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Also they were a bit dodgy in always giving a smaller discount for ballet than operas!

 

I wonder if that was because the top opera prices were so much higher than the top ballet prices? I could never afford to do a subscription for opera tickets as even with the I think it was 20% discount the ticket prices were too high, whereas with the lower top prices for ballet the 18% discount brought them down to just about affordable for me. However now the ballet top prices have gone up significantly in the last couple of seasons I wouldn't be able to afford them even with an 18% discount, so thinking about it maybe even though I've been bemoaning the abolition of package booking it's actually moot for me!

[EVWS]

Royal Opera House not mentioned, but seems like they're not the only one getting ridiculously expensive: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-tennant-ludicrous-theatre-prices-threaten-future-of-british-tv-and-film-zf7b97qtd

[Sim]

36 minutes ago, EVWS said:

Royal Opera House not mentioned, but seems like they're not the only one getting ridiculously expensive: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-tennant-ludicrous-theatre-prices-threaten-future-of-british-tv-and-film-zf7b97qtd

Behind a paywall so I can't read the article, but the title gives the gist.  West End theatre prices are indeed ridiculously high so I hardly go anymore.  When I do, I have to choose very carefully and am rarely disappointed.  

[alison]

I thought I'd managed to get in before the paywall dropped, but have only got the first few paragraphs, which include:

 

"The former Doctor Who actor said it was “difficult to rationalise” the cost of going to the theatre, which has surged since the pandemic.

Top ticket prices increased by a fifth between 2019 and 2022 to an average of £140.85, according to The Stage newspaper, before stabilising this year."

 

(This of course is for "unsubsidised" theatre)

[Lizbie1]

I realise why they do it but I wish they wouldn't always lead with the top priced tickets - the average would be more honest and is in many cases bad enough.

[EVWS]

It does say that the cheapest seats (often with restricted view) cost on average £25.55 which is a 12.8% increase on 2022. The average ticket last year cost £54.38 

 

Not sure how the compares across the ROH, which is of course subsidised 

[Emeralds]

Too soon to say whether my purchase patterns for Autumn 2023 have changed, as I might purchase tickets nearer the time of the show, but a dramatically reduced advance booking order this time not due to prices alone, but mainly to the website being temperamental, eg

1) changing my waiting time from 10 minutes to 40 minutes after already waiting 5 minutes,  

2) emptying tickets from my basket while still within the “you have x minutes left” limit

3) sending me back to the queue in the MIDDLE of a ticket purchase just as I was about to pay! 

 

The whole exercise took me 3 hours when it used to take only 40-50 minutes on the previous version of the website. Unfortunately I had real life to go back to so couldn’t spend the whole day and night buying tickets as I’m sure the ROH IT department would like me to do. I ended up with Northern Ballet, Ballet Black, Nutcracker- fewer tickets and performances  than my usual (no operas for this booking period as there are more next period that I’d like to see and I don’t have the time to fit them all in). I may go back to book more tickets after casting for ENB has been announced. 

 

Not sure where to put this but the Royal Danish Ballet have announced that they’re also performing Dante Project next season. I guess quite a few companies/directors are keen on McGregor and Adès’ magnum opus 😊.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Emeralds

[Emeralds]

On 04/08/2023 at 18:10, art_enthusiast said:

I also went for far less than I normally would. No Nuctrackers, but I don’t usually go to this one anyway (I will try to catch ENB’s or BRB’S one). I would have liked to see Joseph Sissens/Mariko Sasaski though.

 

Unfortunately I have not yet seen the RB’s Don Quixote live, so I did feel compelled to book a few. I saw BRB’S version twice last year and loved it, I assume this version will be the same with slightly different sets and costumes?

 

I only just spotted your question today, @art_enthusiast, so apologies that it’s a tad later. The RB version differs in that Amour, the male Cupid-like character from the BRB version, is female wearing a tutu in the RB version, and there is a different pas de deux (different music, different choreography) for Kitri and Basilio at the start of Act 2. I think both (the different Amours and the two pas de deux) are equally good- you can see and compare, and decide if you like one more or like both equally. 😊

 

I find the RB one looks grander in scale on a bigger stage, but I like the BRB one a lot for its rustic charm, which suits the story so well, and the music choices. There’s one bit you should look out for in the RB version which is spectacular but the dancer is never credited: the start of the big dance number for the corps de ballet where one boy does a split leap off two wheelbarrows (not in the Petipa/Gorsky traditional version; a clever addition by Acosta)- the leap is also in the BRB version but is on a smaller (safer) platform. It looks spectacular in the RB production though. In one of the early performances I saw, Marcelino Sambe danced the role, while in the last performance I saw in 2019, Teo Dubreuil did it (both looked incredible-they seem to be leaping into the sky as the backdrop depicts a blue sky). 

[Emeralds]

On 07/08/2023 at 22:51, Dawnstar said:

 

I wonder if that was because the top opera prices were so much higher than the top ballet prices? I could never afford to do a subscription for opera tickets as even with the I think it was 20% discount the ticket prices were too high, whereas with the lower top prices for ballet the 18% discount brought them down to just about affordable for me. However now the ballet top prices have gone up significantly in the last couple of seasons I wouldn't be able to afford them even with an 18% discount, so thinking about it maybe even though I've been bemoaning the abolition of package booking it's actually moot for me!

Probably just me and a small minority who feel this way, but it seems illogical for ROH to have given away a bigger sum of money by offering a bigger discount for the more pricey opera packages. If both packages were 18% it would look fairer and ROH would have earned more money, but the difference in discount implies that a) they think less of ballet patrons, b) the opera productions are not good enough to sell at 18% off, let alone full price, so need to be knocked down further in order to fill the seats.

 

Having bought from both packages, I’d have felt happier to buy both at the same discount (whether that’s 18% off for both or 20% off for both), rather than the dodgy inequality. But as you say, since they no longer have packages at all (but more empty seats for some productions) it is currently a moot point. 

 

I notice an interesting “discount” that’s new for ballets- for tickets to The Limit starring Francesca Hayward and Alexander Campbell (so that’s why they’re not in Don Quixote!) in October, the first three performances are called previews and are slightly cheaper. As new productions often take a little while to sell, might this be an effective new way of earning revenue and filling seats for new productions in future? I’m sure the dancing will be equally good, and even for full price performances (like Cinderella and the Prince being obscured by the crowd in the new production) things are tweaked and altered during a run if they encounter a serious problem. 

[Dawnstar]

11 hours ago, Emeralds said:

b) the opera productions are not good enough to sell at 18% off, let alone full price, so need to be knocked down further in order to fill the seats.

 

I assume the ROH think their opera productions are marvellous (and economical). Why else in the last decade or so have they ditched the majority of the attractive productions they used to have & replaced them with more & more ugly, dreary, modern-set productions?!