New McGregor ballet - Untitled, 2023

[bangorballetboy]

#SomeCallItArt

[Ondine]

5 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

#SomeCallItArt

 

Indeed. Perhaps it is art.  Or should we never move on?

 

The composer. It's possibly a good idea to put a little work in to fully appreciate the new work?

 

 

 

The Rite of Spring. Oh dear. That wasn't appreciated at the time.

 

A near riot. It didn't have tutus and Minkus.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring

 

 

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Ondine said:

The Rite of Spring. Oh dear. That wasn't appreciated at the time.

 

A near riot. It didn't have tutus and Minkus.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rite_of_Spring

 

Yes, The Rite of Spring is always conveniently quoted in this context. But just because something is (or is deemed to be) radical it doesn't automatically mean it's good, either. (Not that calling something 'Untitled' is radical; it's just tedious.)

 

And there is of course a lot of ground between calling something (e.g.) 'The Fighting Temeraire' (which is incidentally a brilliant painting and was deemed at the time to be radical) and calling it 'Untitled'.

 

 

[Ondine]

Well Rite of Spring is a good one to quote. So why not?

 

Of course radical doesn't automatically mean bad either. We have to kiss a lot of frogs etc.

 

Except the title is a reference to what inspired the work?  Perhaps McGregor isn't as lazy as some seem to think? Perhaps he's playing with the audience?

 

Who knows. It might be interesting / enjoyable / illuminating and the rest, it might broaden a few horizons about dance.

 

Going on pointe was revolutionary once. Martha Graham anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine

[MoVR]

To be fair "Untitled 2023" is probably one of the better things he could have come up with

[Lizbie1]

5 minutes ago, Ondine said:

Well Rite of Spring is a good one to quote. So why not?

 

Because it was the choreography rather than the music that caused the riot (or so I was taught).

[bangorballetboy]

30 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

The composer. It's possibly a good idea to put a little work in to fully appreciate the new work?

 

 

 

I am quite aware of the composer's output, having heard quite a bit of it already in various concerts.  

[Ondine]

2 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Because it was the choreography rather than the music that caused the riot (or so I was taught).

 

But it was controversial at the time (Nijinsky).

 

And Turner

22 minutes ago, bridiem said:

The Fighting Temeraire' (which is incidentally a brilliant painting and was deemed at the time to be radical)

 

 

Turner had his critics.

 

And no-one has even seen the new dance work yet, but so much humphing because McGregor has referenced the artist in its title.

 

 

[Ondine]

1 minute ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

I am quite aware of the composer's output, having heard quite a bit of it already in various concerts.  

 

 

Well that's nice.  Who knows, the choreography & the designs might even be enjoyable / thought provoking / forgettable / enduring. 

 

 

[Lizbie1]

44 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

But it was controversial at the time (Nijinsky).

 

 

Wasn't the point about works that were once controversial but have subsequently been acknowledged as masterpieces? Because though Stravinsky's score is now canonical, Nijinsky's choreography for it isn't.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Lizbie1
typo

[Ondine]

 

5 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

Wasn't the point about works that were once controversial but have subsequently beem acknowledged as masterpieces? Because though Stravinsky's score is now canonical, Nijinsky's choreography for it isn't.

 

 

If that's what you took from what I wrote, that's what you took. Multiple meanings of text and all that.

 

Rather I suspect like McGregor calling his piece 'Untitled 2023' and not anything else.  Seems fine as a title to me, all other things considered. 

 

“I began a lifelong process of purification, a process of taking away what isn’t essential”  Herrera.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine

[bangorballetboy]

20 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

 

Well that's nice.  

 

 

 

It is nice.  It's also a response to your posts that come across as extremely patronising.

[Ondine]

3 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

It is nice.  It's also a response to your posts that come across as extremely patronising.

 

Really? Multiple meanings of text again. But if you consider yourself patronised, that's your reading of my text.

 

Though I am rather surprised that McGregor is being condemned for a dancework not yet seen on the basis of its title, without the thought that it might not simply be laziness on his part. He might have given it some intellectual consideration, and that it is connected to the artist Herrera.

 

Though I still don't have a problem with artworks which don't have a fancy title. 

 

[Beryl H]

I thought the ballet was about Carmen Herrara herself, so this news makes a bit more sense, suppose the thing now is to take a look at some of her art works online, or just sit back and enjoy the dancers and choreography! 

[capybara]

1 hour ago, MoVR said:

According to Instagram, Bracewell, Kaneko, Bell and Hamilton are in it as well 

 

Yes - there is a photo of Fumi and William on Instagram now.

 

[Apologies if I mistook Leo Dixon for Marco Masciari earlier.]

 

[Ondine]

3 minutes ago, Beryl H said:

suppose the thing now is to take a look at some of her art works online

 

I linked above, there are a number of them in a slideshow, I'll put it again.

 

I can see why McGregor is drawn to her work, her philosophy.

 

https://www.lissongallery.com/artists/carmen-herrera

 

 

 

 

[LinMM]

One of the things I tend to dislike about McGregors work is that generally speaking there is constant movement with hardly any still points in the choreography and just too much all going on at once for long periods.  
Having just read Ondines above link about the artist ( thanks for the link)  my worst fears I think are going to be confirmed about this new Piece!!

Well from this quote at least : 

” Herrera created symmetry, asymmetry and an infinite variety of movement rhythm and spatial tension across the canvas” 

There’s something about this statement that gives me the feeling there’s going to be quite a lot going on all at once in this new Work!! 
Above comment not to be taken too seriously!!! 

If I were a dancer I’m sure I’d love to work with McGregor can’t help liking how he comes across in rehearsals etc and think he’s genuine enough about what he does but unfortunately I can usually only take him in small doses with Woolf Works the exception….although that wasn’t really a pure dance work as had some sort of storyline. 
Still it’s a new work so shouldn’t pre judge but overall just didn’t feel attracted to seeing this triple bill….so no doubt it will be his best Work ever lol!! 

I do think it’s time for a new resident choreographer though. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by LinMM

[capybara]

I’m hoping that McGregor has something new to ‘say’ with this work.

 

And on a related matter……I find it somewhat questionable  that his own company has had quite a long residency in The Linbury and that he has not one but two works in the upcoming triple. The end of season programme could have/should have presented an alternative work to Corybantic Games.

[Ondine]

4 minutes ago, capybara said:

I’m hoping that McGregor has something new to ‘say’ with this work.

 

And on a related matter……I find it somewhat questionable  that his own company has had quite a long residency in The Linbury and that he has not one but two works in the upcoming triple. The end of season programme could have/should have presented an alternative work to Corybantic Games.

 

Corybantic Games.  Is that not Christopher Wheeldon?

[FionaM]

2 hours ago, Ondine said:

It has a title. It's called Untitled 2023. 

 

I suppose he could have called it The Hay Wain or The Fighting Temeraire or The Rape of Lucretia or whatever, but maybe he thinks it's simply an abstract dance work to which you give your own meaning, or just enjoy (or not) in the moment.

 

Maybe I go to too many art exhibtions. I don't see the problem. 

 

The Royal Ballet presents the world premiere of Resident Choreographer Wayne McGregor's new ballet Untitled, 2023, inspired by the untitled art works of the late Cuban-American artist Carmen Herrera, who has designed the set. This electrifying ballet is a collaboration with Herrera and Icelandic composer Anna Thorvaldsdottir, Burberry – whose Chief Creative Officer Daniel Lee provides costume design – and lighting designer Lucy Carter.

“electrifying” ???

[FionaM]

8 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

Corybantic Games.  Is that not Christopher Wheeldon?

Yes it is Wheeldon 

[Ondine]

2 minutes ago, FionaE said:

“electrifying” ???

 

That's what the ROH says. Who am I to argue? 🙂

 

 

[JNC]

I think the problem with calling something “untitled” does feel a bit pretentious, like they’re above giving consideration to a name and they are wanting to appeal to and impress “intellectuals” to bring your own interpretations etc.

 

Nothing wrong with that as others have commented it’s almost impossible not to bring your own interpretations regardless of whether a piece has a name or not, but doing it so overtly feels a little smug and almost exclusionary of those not familiar with the artist’s work. 
 

also if everyone called things untitled then we wouldn’t be able to reference anything at all, (untitled 2023 by Wayne McGregor in a bill with untitled 2023(a) by Christopher Wheeldon etc..,) gets a little silly. So this only “works” by the Wheeldon knowing others will stick with naming pieces, so also adds to him feeling above others and special as he is the only one radical or bold enough to do such a thing. 
 

I personally don’t really care so much about the title, but the above would be an argument against it. As long as the work is good, and it doesn’t start a trend (untitled 2024 etc as someone humorously suggested, which would be ridiculous) then it doesn’t bother me. But it doesn’t bode well for what I might think of the work (but will try and be open minded).

 

I also saw ROH was promoting their streaming service with a clip from chroma and decided I disliked that work, just the female being thrown around as simply a body felt a bit meaningless and almost crass to me. It’s just the same old, stuff rehashed and if it doesn’t have a story or meaning it’s hard to distinguish between works and harder to form a real connection. But maybe that’s what McGregor wants, to continually churn out variations of the same work as “new”…? I don’t mean this to be offensive but I agree I don’t feel he’s bringing much to ROH and would like to see other choreographers brought in rather than him every year…

[JohnS]

The problem I have with Wayne McGregor is that he seems utterly indifferent to audiences to the point of treating them with contempt. Look how difficult it was to get McGregor to provide even a basic cast list for Woolf Works where from conception, dancers referred to themselves by character. But audiences weren’t allowed to know until the most recent revival. A decent synopsis and helpful programme notes should be considered par for the course for all works performed at the ROH. McGregor chooses to ignore these norms. Might it be that he prefers a shield of obfuscation? And might that be because his work isn’t as intellectual coherent as he would have us believe?

[Richard LH]

4 hours ago, Ondine said:

There may be some nice music, pretty costumes and lighting, says she soothingly.🙂

 

 

There may be....but then again, this is Wayne...😬

[alison]

Seems to me there's an awful lot of prejudging going on in this thread.  Has anyone even seen a rehearsal?

[FionaM]

39 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

That's what the ROH says. Who am I to argue? 🙂

 

 

it seemed to me to be the only revealing word about the piece.  

[Josette]

7 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

 

And, I suppose that means no programme notes... after all, if he wants to strip away the meaning there should be nothing further to say.

 

For The Dante Project in Paris, there were extensive notes/essays in the programme. I was happy to read them after having seen it five times (seven for Inferno), and would say that the creators' comments got it right! I wish I were in London to see Untitled, all the more with Sissens and Masciari creating roles.  

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Ondine said:

 

Corybantic Games.  Is that not Christopher Wheeldon?

Apologies. 
I blame all this McGregor talk for my addled brain.

[LinMM]

Perhaps it was the costumes for it…they are a tad bit McGregorish!! 

[Suffolkgal]

Lovely pics of Bracewell and Kaneko whatever it’s called! It must be exciting to create work with a choreographer 

[Emeralds]

I think the actual dances/choreography will be more important than what it’s called, but the dances/choreography haven’t been premiered yet, so fretting over a title is probably not worth it.

 

I remember Chroma and Woolf Works being just as unfathomable (to me anyway) before their premieres and Chroma turned out to be electric (still is) and WW poignant and beautiful (still is). Certainly lots of dance companies agree re: Chroma-it’s been staged by many companies in various countries on different continents. (Yet the title still doesn’t seem to give much information about the ballet to someone who doesn’t know it!)

 

Am more concerned about this pessimism.....does this mean nobody is going to Laura Morera’s farewell? Or is this just a bit of a chit chat? Website still showing a lot of unsold tickets. (I’ve bought mine). 

 

 

[Sim]

Yes I am going to Morera’s farewell.  Just that one show as I don’t like Corybantic Games and another McGregor short ballet doesn’t excite me.  I love Chroma and Infra but none of his other short ballets have done it for me.