Silke H Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 The new McGregor piece has a name: Untitled, 2023 When I first heard of this I thought the person telling me was pulling my leg. Yes, it's now published on the ROH website in the triple bill information. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 And images are appearing on social media of Joe Sissens and Marco Masciari rehearsing. If past practice is anything to go by, McGregor will be up against time and there might therefore be only one cast in the first run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Silke H said: The new McGregor piece has a name: Untitled, 2023 Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) It's interesting that McGregor implies that works do have a meaning, even if the creator doesn't wish to give any hint of it to the audience. (Let them do the work! Or, more charitably, each person may see a different meaning in it...). I would have thought he'd question whether works have to have a meaning anyway. (What does Scènes de Ballet mean?! Who knows. But I'm glad it has an evocative title. Ditto Symphonic Variations. And as with Balanchine, the name of the music can be sufficient. But of course for McGregor the music or score doesn't often seem to be the driver... Ho hum.) And, I suppose that means no programme notes... after all, if he wants to strip away the meaning there should be nothing further to say. Edited June 1, 2023 by bridiem Sentence added 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, bridiem said: (What does Scènes de Ballet mean?! Who knows. But I'm glad it has an evocative title. Ditto Symphonic Variations. And as with Balanchine, the name of the music can be sufficient. But of course for McGregor the music or score doesn't often seem to be the driver... Ho hum.) Just to be clear (in case of confusion), the two Ashton works named share their titles with the music used. I often go into seeing McGregor pieces for the first time with a lot of optimism (which is sometimes, but not always, dashed). Not so sure this time. I really think it's time for the RB to move on from McGregor as a "regular" choreographer. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 ‘Carmen Herrera’s work it’s often just labelled “untitled”... She strips away the meaning and you have to find it for yourself.' Oh gawd. 🤦🏻♀️ 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Sim said: ‘Carmen Herrera’s work it’s often just labelled “untitled”... She strips away the meaning and you have to find it for yourself.' Can we ask someone in the foyer?😄 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Thankyou BBB you’ve dared to say what I’ve been only thinking! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) Rob S 😂😂 Ive not booked to see this programme and there’s only one date I can make anyway. I might see if a standing ticket should come up for the 12th!! Edited June 1, 2023 by LinMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) If indeed Joe Sissons and Marco Masciari are among those having new work created on them by a major choreographer, that's lovely for them. It may be lovely for the audience too? McGregor is certainly a major choreographer right now, who knows if his legacy will linger? Marco Masciari of course also won the 'contemporary' award when he won his Prx de Lausanne prize. Not all works without a story and left up to us to make our own 'meaning' by major 21st century choreographers are difficult to appreciate. We may all be pleasantly surprised. 😉 (Embedded link from the 'official' ROH YT channel) Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ondine said: Not all works without a story and left up to us to make our own 'meaning' by major 21st century choreographers without a 'story' are difficult to appreciate. We may all be pleasantly surprised. 😉 The issue isn't whether or not it has a story, or indeed a meaning; it's (for me) the pretentiousness of refusing to give it a title. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 minute ago, bridiem said: the pretentiousness of refusing to give it a title. Though it does actually have one. Untitled 2023. It's honest at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePigeon Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Pretentious, 2023 would have been more honest. 😆 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Though that could have been interpreted as a commentary on the year. I quite like that here we are discussing the fact he's given an enigmatic title. It could be an enigmatic work, and the title very apt. Many artists don't bother with titles any longer, 'Untitled' and sometimes a number is quite common at exhibitions. Saves a lot of bother really. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ondine said: Many artists don't bother with titles any longer, 'Untitled' and sometimes a number is quite common at exhibitions. Saves a lot of bother really. 🙂 And a lot of thought, and a lot of imagination. And presumably none of these artists need to actually market their work or seek out an audience. Easy peasy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoVR Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, capybara said: And images are appearing on social media of Joe Sissens and Marco Masciari rehearsing. If past practice is anything to go by, McGregor will be up against time and there might therefore be only one cast in the first run. I'm pretty sure the image in question features Joseph Sissens and Leo Dixon, but I could be mistaken. I haven't seen a photo with Masciari in it but it's very likely he'll be included in the piece anyways, to my great delight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 I suppose it could be the first in a series: Untitled, 2024; Untitled, 2025; and so ad infinitum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, bridiem said: And a lot of thought, and a lot of imagination. And presumably none of these artists need to actually market their work or seek out an audience. Easy peasy. Though if your work is not actually 'about' anything concrete, but about marks on the canvas, an exploration of space, colour and the rest, not a depiction of anything, not a portrait, a still life, a landscape, evocation of mood, etc, why call it anything? Same with dance. https://www.lissongallery.com/artists/carmen-herrera Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePigeon Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 That’s fair enough if it genuinely has no meaning, a la Dances at a Gathering, which is simply a beautifully choreographed piece of dance which Robbins was at pains to state had no deeper meaning. However, Macgregor has stated that Herrara’s work ‘strips away meaning and you have to find it for yourself’, implying to me that there is some meaning there, though it’s ambiguous and personal. I don’t know, it all just feels a little pretentious, uninspiring and a bit lazy for my reactionary taste. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Though Dances at a Gathering you have to find your own meaning in the work? As do the dancers. Herrera's work is explained a little in the link above. It has to be put in its context in time really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 If I wanted to be pedantic, 'Untitled 2023' is still a title...sorry Wayne!! Maybe a blank space on the bill's running order would have made more sense if he doesn't want a title. That would also reflect the blankness of the meaning of the piece, so we could fill in our own blanks....oh no, I'm falling into the trap!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 There may be some nice music, pretty costumes and lighting, says she soothingly.🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePigeon Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Ondine said: Though Dances at a Gathering you have to find your own meaning in the work? As do the dancers. Herrera's work is explained a little in the link above. It has to be put in its context in time really. Well art can be interpreted however you wish and the dancers can make up some meaning if they need to, but Robbins very specifically stated by writing to Ballet Review that there is no plot or theme and the dancers are merely themselves dancing to Chopin. He made this very clear and didn’t seem to want the work open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Sim said: ‘Carmen Herrera’s work it’s often just labelled “untitled”... She strips away the meaning and you have to find it for yourself.' Oh gawd. 🤦🏻♀️ Life's too short for all that nonsense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, OnePigeon said: He made this very clear and didn’t seem to want the work open to interpretation. Ah but we do don't we? We give it our own meaning. And no-one can stop us. There is no ballet police. Even if that meaning is a mood evoked, an appreciation of the art of movement, beautiful choreography, a desire for the interval so we can get a drink... oooh... so much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said: Life's too short for all that nonsense. I like her work. I enjoy its pared back nature, her use of colour, space, shape. It does evoke some meaning, some feelings in me. I also appreciate Mark Rothko, some of whose works were titled 'Untitled'. Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnePigeon Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ondine said: Ah but we do don't we? We give it our own meaning. And no-one can stop us. There is no ballet police. Even if that meaning is a mood evoked, an appreciation of the art of movement, beautiful choreography, a desire for the interval so we can get a drink... oooh... so much. As I stated, we can interpret it however we wish, but if the artist states it has no hidden narrative or meaning and that it is just dancing to Chopin, I think it’s important to note. If I want to imagine it’s an allegory on the futility of love, then I can, but that is not the artist’s intention. I can simply view it as a piece of aesthetic beauty and I can take away a mood evoked, but that’s not the same as trying to understand what the artist is trying to convey: he’s told us, it is nothing more than his interpretation and reaction to the music he has chosen for the dancers he’s choreographing it on. It’s the antithesis of Untitled, 2023, which is inviting interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 45 minutes ago, Ondine said: There may be some nice music, pretty costumes and lighting, says she soothingly.🙂 I'm not sure if you're being serious (that's the problem with writing things down!) but if so: those things can (sometimes) be nice, but they're not necessary ingredients for enjoyment (at least for me). e.g. I love Les Noces which has harsh (but beautiful) music, drab (but striking) costumes, and (as far as I remember) stark lighting. If you're not being serious: I agree that there's very little chance of encountering such things in a McGregor work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, OnePigeon said: It’s the antithesis of Untitled, 2023, which is inviting interpretation. Which is also valid. It's just the audience is free to give the piece some meaning, or not. It may just be enjoyable dancing. Or not. It depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Enjoy. Nice music, pretty(ish) costume, lighting... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Ondine said: Though if your work is not actually 'about' anything concrete, but about marks on the canvas, an exploration of space, colour and the rest, not a depiction of anything, not a portrait, a still life, a landscape, evocation of mood, etc, why call it anything? Same with dance. Because if it's created for other people to look at/experience (which it clearly is, if it's in a gallery or a theatre) it involves more than just the person who created it. Many works are not about anything concrete but are still given titles. It's part of the effort to reach and communicate with your audience, even if in a very non-specific way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoVR Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 According to Instagram, Bracewell, Kaneko, Bell and Hamilton are in it as well 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ondine Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) It has a title. It's called Untitled 2023. I suppose he could have called it The Hay Wain or The Fighting Temeraire or The Rape of Lucretia or whatever, but maybe he thinks it's simply an abstract dance work to which you give your own meaning, or just enjoy (or not) in the moment. Maybe I go to too many art exhibtions. I don't see the problem. The Royal Ballet presents the world premiere of Resident Choreographer Wayne McGregor's new ballet Untitled, 2023, inspired by the untitled art works of the late Cuban-American artist Carmen Herrera, who has designed the set. This electrifying ballet is a collaboration with Herrera and Icelandic composer Anna Thorvaldsdottir, Burberry – whose Chief Creative Officer Daniel Lee provides costume design – and lighting designer Lucy Carter. Edited June 1, 2023 by Ondine 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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