Royal Ballet's Swan Lake (Spring 2022)

[Borzoi]

11 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

Yes - I never count, but it's clear if the fouettés are 'on track' or otherwise.

It seems to me that, whether the ballerina does single fouettes or multiples, the biggest obstacle in many instances is not the execution of the turns themselves, but the clean finishing of them. I have seen ballerinas over the years perform immaculate fouettes, only to conclude with a less than satisfactory ending. Undoubtedly, it is ridiculously difficult to build up that much momentum and then try to stop on a dime. 

[Scheherezade]

2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I have a personal preference for single fouettés done in time with the music - I think they look far more effective.  

Me too, Jan. They look far more effective and the inherent musicality ups the overall satisfaction. 

[capybara]

In view of the posts which followed mine about Yasmine Naghdi’s fouettés, I need to say that I was in no way ‘having a go’ at her but, rather, empathising with newbie Odiles.

 

Yasmine’s Swan Lake performances this season have been nothing short of amazing and I loved it that her first night appearance garnered plaudits from a press which hardly  ever seems to see her.

[Pas de Quatre]

It is also worth considering that although most dancers managed to do classes at home during the pandemic, they would not have had the long days of rehearsals or any performances. So inevitably stamina would suffer which is why perhaps some dancers although fit, have not totally recovered from the enforced disruption to their careers.

[emmarose]

22 hours ago, bridiem said:

Francesca Hayward has posted this on her Instagram account, and I think it perhaps can usefully be read in the context of the above discussions: 'I’ve dreamt of dancing Odette and Odile since I was three years old. The reality of doing it was a whole lot harder than I ever imagined. This ballet is like a marathon to get through and I’m honestly very proud of myself for doing just that. I am the luckiest Swan Queen to have had @williambracewell as my Prince, it has been the biggest joy and honour to dance with him and I’ve absolutely treasured every second in the studio with him and with my coach Lesley Collier. I couldn’t have done any of the big ballets in my career without Lesley and it was truly special working with her on this iconic one. I hope I’ll have years more of learning how to master Swan Lake but it feels good to have finally started somewhere.'

 

These Royal Ballet principals have really been putting themselves out there on social media in these messages lately (Matthew Ball's the other day touching on his injury was equally as enlightening).

 

I remember Marianela saying a few times on Insta and when talking that these two roles are the ones that make you doubt yourself, that make you the most nervous.

 

They make these things look so easy sometimes that we can all forget that what they're doing is extremely hard.

[Florine]

On 28/03/2022 at 15:01, Pas de Quatre said:

Frequently, problems with the fouettés are caused by not respecting the beat of the music.  It used to be that 32 single fouettés were done completely in time with the counts of the music.  Then people started throwing in the odd double turn (or even triple) without coming down.  A double takes longer than a single turn, but not as long as two turns with the plié in between, so the dancer is then across the music and often doesn't seem to have planned how many turns to fit in for each section, whether counting bars or musical phrase (8 bars) so eventually they lose their way and the timing becomes more and more random which also seems to affect balance and positioning! 

Spot on, Pas de Quatre! As timing becomes more random, at some level there is the inherent need to 'speed up'. But once behind the beat, the only way to speed up is actually to slow down, and revert to singles to recover the timing (or something else entirely as has been so helpfully explored and discussed above).

 

Once timing has gone and speed accelerates, it only takes a tiny loss of alignment or balance (or loss of spot), to begin to fall out of balance and/or positioning. Simple biomechanics and anatomy.

 

Doubles (even trebles) may be thrilling, but they need a very FAST turner, confident of timing. If you think back to Rojo (a consummate turner) she would always revert to a 'single-single' if ever she was a fraction behind time. That way she maintained momentum, balance and position.

 

A sympathetic and observant conductor also comes into it ... 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Florine

[Florine]

On 28/03/2022 at 21:37, Scheherezade said:

Me too, Jan. They look far more effective and the inherent musicality ups the overall satisfaction. 

I also agree, but  add that for gifted turners who are aware of the musicality and consequences of getting behind, a single double ever fourth fouetté is as impressive visually as doubles, or randomly mixed doubles, throughout.

 

The uniformity of every fourth fouetté as a double turn is visually contrasting and therefore pleasing to the eye. It also allows time for 'catch up'. But I'd rather well executed singles throughout, performed with the intense single minded objective of hypnotising Siegried ... 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Florine

[Florine]

On 28/03/2022 at 18:46, Jan McNulty said:

 

I'm not a teacher like you PdQ but you have expressed very eloquently what I think so thank you.

 

I have a personal preference for single fouettés done in time with the music - I think they look far more effective.  There is only one dancer I have seen who can whip them out so fast that the doubles and triples are also in time with the music (and I have seen even her have an off-night).

 

I've always assumed that when the music changes it gives the conductor a chance to finish early if the dancer does so that it still looks natural but that wouldn't work if the dancer tries to keep going.

 

Am I correct in thinking that if more than one turn is done it is technically not a fouetté?

 

Technically you are right Jan: We have all been talking about a double fouetté as a double TURN on the supporting leg, not a double extension and ronde de jambe of the leg en l'air. 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Florine

[Florine]

In the flurry of fouetté debate, I omitted to thank you all for your welcome to the forum 🙂 

[Timmie]

9 hours ago, Florine said:

the only way to speed up is actually to slow down

 

Einstein would be impressed 😄.

 

So it’s only really a fouetté if the leg is whipped out. Which means many dancers don’t do 32 but quite a bit less, however they do many more than 32 turns.

 

Whenever we talk about ‘32 fouettés’ I just assume we are talking about ‘a lot’ rather than exactly 32.

[Rob S]

25 minutes ago, Timmie said:

 

 

Whenever we talk about ‘32 fouettés’ I just assume we are talking about ‘a lot’ rather than exactly 32.

 

That's definitely what I mean, she starts when she's supposed to start, she finishes when she's supposed to finish and she's doing however many turns she wants in between.  

[LinMM]

Supposing you fouetté on each bar of the music at that point in the Ballet.  I’ve never actually counted the bars so perhaps originally there were 32 bars there and the dancer did a fouette on each!! 
I’ve never actually counted any dancers fouettés to date so guess it’s not that important to me as long as however many are done they are done with a bit of panache and confidence I certainly don’t like to see a dancer struggling with them just to get to 32!! They could be combined with some very fast pique turns or even soutenus turns to keep things up beat and positive. 
I certainly enjoyed Fumi’s fouettés as she seemed to be enjoying them herself!! 

[capybara]

5 minutes ago, LinMM said:

 

I certainly enjoyed Fumi’s fouettés as she seemed to be enjoying them herself!! 

 Yes, relishing her power over Siegfried.

[LinMM]

And the audience it seems!! 

[TomS]

9 hours ago, Timmie said:

 

Einstein would be impressed 😄.

 

So it’s only really a fouetté if the leg is whipped out. Which means many dancers don’t do 32 but quite a bit less, however they do many more than 32 turns.

 

Whenever we talk about ‘32 fouettés’ I just assume we are talking about ‘a lot’ rather than exactly 32.

I saw some even threw in a double before entering into the usual 16 bars… It was the case for the first few performances I saw, so I initially wowed thinking that’s the RB style, but realised later not everyone does it. Now I think dancers are allowed to make their own fouetté unlike other parts, and that makes this part even more special. 

[Florine]

4 hours ago, TomS said:

I saw some even threw in a double before entering into the usual 16 bars… It was the case for the first few performances I saw, so I initially wowed thinking that’s the RB style, but realised later not everyone does it. Now I think dancers are allowed to make their own fouetté unlike other parts, and that makes this part even more special. 

A double pirouette pushing off from two feet onto the supporting leg (the illusion of throwing in a double at the start) is a clever way to generate initial speed to propel momentum for the actual fouettés .... 

[Emeralds]

On 30/03/2022 at 12:55, Timmie said:

 

Einstein would be impressed 😄.

 

So it’s only really a fouetté if the leg is whipped out. Which means many dancers don’t do 32 but quite a bit less, however they do many more than 32 turns.

 

Whenever we talk about ‘32 fouettés’ I just assume we are talking about ‘a lot’ rather than exactly 32.

Long time ago (before 1999 or thereabouts), even if ballerinas could do triple pirouettes and double fouettés, the convention was that one should do single fouettés in Swan Lake- and actually, the music fits exactly 32 single fouettés. Many people in the audience used to count them (not out loud, but you could see from the way people held their breath, or slightly nodded with each turn- or they said so afterwards “A did only 31”, “Did you see B fitting 33 fouettes in?”, “yes I did!”). 

 

With the tendency of many ballerinas to fit in several double fouettés, it no longer becomes possible to squeeze in as many as 32 in that case. Also, while it’s spectacular if one manages to finish off with a double or triple turn at the end , it’s quite difficult to do so without losing one’s balance- I'd much rather see someone do singles and finish without wobbling, than to see doubles or triples, and falling over at the end, as it makes it look like Odile is no longer in control of the scene, which is out of character. 

[Emeralds]

On 26/03/2022 at 10:45, Lizbie1 said:

I agree that performances should not be judged to stand or fall by the things but I've now seen three debutante or near-debutante dancers struggle with the fouettés in this production: Hayward, O'Sullivan and back in 2018 on her debut Naghdi.

 

Genuine question: is it a coincidence that they all came from White Lodge?

If it’s any help, when Osipova made her debut with the Royal Ballet in 2013 dancing Swan Lake, she stumbled off the end of her fouettés, having done a mix of  very fast and stunning single and double fouettés, so the problem isn’t just unique to White Lodge alumni. It was also only her second or third time dancing Odette/Odile ever, and her first with RB. Somehow Osipova had managed to make it look like it was part of the plot - Odile having such a great time that she spins too fast while dancing - rather than looking like she’d made an error. From what I was told, her fouettés were back to normal on her second night. 

 

When she substituted them with pique turns in 2018 it was because of an injury that made fouettes impossible. Since the original ballet didn’t even have fouettes and either O’Hare or Scarlett or both felt it was fine, I think it’s right to keep her in the role with substituted turns- Ashton, Balanchine and MacMillan themselves used to change their own choreography for dancers who were injured that they still wanted in their ballets. Fonteyn and other ballerinas such as  (if I recall correctly) Plisetskaya have also substituted the fouettes if they had an injury that precluded them doing fouettes. 

 

When Evgenia Obraztsova made her Swan Lake debut with the Royal Ballet, the music for her fouettes was getting progressively faster and faster till it got to a point where it actually wasn’t humanly possible to do fouettes so fast and not fall over,  or that she would have to finish them without keeping up with the orchestra. It was the most bizarre rendition of the score I’d ever heard- I’m not sure if conductor Boris Gruzin had initiated the error, or whether she had asked for it to get progressively faster and he had misunderstood. She did try to keep time with the music and stumbled at the end, but it wasn’t her fault. Sad to say, it also made the score sound awful. It’s meant to be Swan Lake, not Flight of the Bumblebee. 

[Clara_f]

37 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

If it’s any help, when Osipova made her debut with the Royal Ballet in 2013 dancing Swan Lake, she stumbled off the end of her fouettés, having done a mix of  very fast and stunning single and double fouettés, so the problem isn’t just unique to White Lodge alumni. It was also only her second or third time dancing Odette/Odile ever, and her first with RB. Somehow Osipova had managed to make it look like it was part of the plot - Odile having such a great time that she spins too fast while dancing - rather than looking like she’d made an error. From what I was told, her fouettés were back to normal on her second night. 

 

When she substituted them with pique turns in 2018 it was because of an injury that made fouettes impossible. Since the original ballet didn’t even have fouettes and either O’Hare or Scarlett or both felt it was fine, I think it’s right to keep her in the role with substituted turns- Ashton, Balanchine and MacMillan themselves used to change their own choreography for dancers who were injured that they still wanted in their ballets. Fonteyn and other ballerinas such as  (if I recall correctly) Plisetskaya have also substituted the fouettes if they had an injury that precluded them doing fouettes. 

 

When Evgenia Obraztsova made her Swan Lake debut with the Royal Ballet, the music for her fouettes was getting progressively faster and faster till it got to a point where it actually wasn’t humanly possible to do fouettes so fast and not fall over,  or that she would have to finish them without keeping up with the orchestra. It was the most bizarre rendition of the score I’d ever heard- I’m not sure if conductor Boris Gruzin had initiated the error, or whether she had asked for it to get progressively faster and he had misunderstood. She did try to keep time with the music and stumbled at the end, but it wasn’t her fault. Sad to say, it also made the score sound awful. It’s meant to be Swan Lake, not Flight of the Bumblebee. 

 

Emeralds, what a story about Obraztsova, I have tears of laughter imagining Odile dancing to the Flight of the Bumblebee! Not sure I'll ever be able to ever not think about it now 😃😃 the joys of live performances! 

[MaddieRose]

46 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Fonteyn and other ballerinas such as  (if I recall correctly) Plisetskaya have also substituted the fouettes if they had an injury that precluded them doing fouettes. 

In Gordon Anthony's Fonteyn photo book he lists Pavlova and Markova as others who substituted them, so anyone who does is definitely in good company. 
 

Edited to add that Gennady Smakov writes Plisetskaya substituted them with piqués en tournant. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by MaddieRose

[Jane S]

Going back a few pages, to Rothbart's machinations: in the current Royal Danish Ballet production, he really is the power behind the throne and among other things he 'turns' Benno from Siegfried's close friend to a part of the conspiracy against him - it's an interesting approach, let's say, and the recording of the production is still online and currently not geo-blocked. And Alban Lendorf is Siegfried.

[Emeralds]

8 hours ago, Clara_f said:

 

Emeralds, what a story about Obraztsova, I have tears of laughter imagining Odile dancing to the Flight of the Bumblebee! Not sure I'll ever be able to ever not think about it now 😃😃 the joys of live performances! 

Honestly, Clara_f, I was sitting there wondering what in the world was going on- and actually got quite worried for her, as Evgenia isn’t famed for trying stunts on stage (compared to Osipova, who apparently in a Youtube video, once performed double tours en l’air, the men’s jump in variations, instead of the normal double or triple pirouettes in the third odalisque variation of Le Corsaire- wearing pointe shoes! Quite successfully too, and didn’t look too out of place in the ballet!)

 

I tried to see the expression on her face to see if it was intended or not- it looked like she wasn’t surprised by it, but she also looked a tad concerned, as though maybe it was faster than she had expected. I actually hoped she would just slow down so that she could finish safely and gracefully. By the end, I was just relieved nobody got hurt, which is of course not the way to make one’s audience experience Swan Lake! The playing for Steven McRae’s turns were normal- lively but not at literal breakneck speed like the music for the  fouettés had been. Did anyone here attend that performance by any chance? 

[Dawnstar]

Cast change for the first performance of the second block of Swan Lakes. At the moment Takada's still down for 16th May. I hope this won't stop Lamb being able to participate in the performance for Ukraine the following night.

 

[alison]

What a shame   

[Rob S]

7 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Cast change for the first performance of the second block of Swan Lakes. At the moment Takada's still down for 16th May. I hope this won't stop Lamb being able to participate in the performance for Ukraine the following night.

 

 

A shame for Akane Takada, I’m sure it won’t stop Sarah doing her bit the next day though…she’ll only have one act to do 

[FionaM]

17 hours ago, Rob S said:

 

A shame for Akane Takada, I’m sure it won’t stop Sarah doing her bit the next day though…she’ll only have one act to do 

Assuming they split the role by acts, which is most likely but a dull choice.  
 

Who knows how they will do it … we might get 4 lots of fouettés, for instance.  Or alternating Odiles in the whole Black Swan pdd.  That would be more interesting! 

[emmarose]

1 hour ago, FionaE said:

Assuming they split the role by acts, which is most likely but a dull choice.  
 

Who knows how they will do it … we might get 4 lots of fouettés, for instance.  Or alternating Odiles in the whole Black Swan pdd.  That would be more interesting! 

 

I don't know how they'll do it, but I doubt it will be a clean split by act as Odette doesn't make her appearance until the second act, so we'd have a spare ballerina. 

[Dawnstar]

3 hours ago, FionaE said:

Who knows how they will do it … we might get 4 lots of fouettés, for instance.  Or alternating Odiles in the whole Black Swan pdd.  That would be more interesting! 

 

It will never happen but I'd love if they lined up the 4 dancers & had a fouette-off in Act III!

[bridiem]

1 minute ago, Dawnstar said:

 

It will never happen but I'd love if they lined up the 4 dancers & had a fouette-off in Act III!

 

Not sure I could cope with the stress!! One is bad enough.

[standingticket]

Not sure if a cast change email has been sent yet but Steven McRae and Anna Rose O’Sullivan have just posted on instagram that Anna Rose will replace Akane Takada in her scheduled performances of Swan Lake. 

[LinMM]

Oh dear it does look as if Akane Takada has a more serious injury now. 
I do hope she recovers soon must be so frustrating for her not being able to dance 😥

[emmarose]

8 hours ago, LinMM said:

Oh dear it does look as if Akane Takada has a more serious injury now. 
I do hope she recovers soon must be so frustrating for her not being able to dance 😥

 

Poor Akane, I miss her beautiful dancing, hope she recovers quickly.

[Richard LH]

16 hours ago, emmarose said:

 

Poor Akane, I miss her beautiful dancing, hope she recovers quickly.

She is sorely missed in this neck of the woods  too.

It is such a shame as she had only just come back from injury (missing Nutcracker and R&J) when she pulled out again at the  DGV General Rehearsal. I was really looking forward to see her in Rhapsody after her "RB Live" PDD with Campbell (who is also unfortunately absent at present) in Nov 2020. Now, with her  also missing Swan Lake, my "No Akane" ticket returns credit total with the ROH has reached a sizeable amount. 

There does not seem to be any public info.  about  how she is doing or when she might be back...(she is not very prominent on social media). 😥