The conspiracy of silence

[taxi4ballet]

And so the silence continues. 

 

If ever there was a time to speak out against bullying, intimidation, belittling, blatant favouritism towards some and not others, eating disorders, mental health issues and abuse of one kind or another in British vocational ballet training, this is it. But no.

 

On the largest forum dedicated to dance in the UK - nothing. I'm deeply appalled, but I can't say I'm surprised.

 

Nobody will stick their head above the parapet for fear of losing their career, their dreams, their funding, their desperately-wanted place in vocational training. The few things that do manage to get a mention are quickly dismissed or swept under the carpet. I understand legal aspects from the moderators' point of view, and I know that specifics cannot be mentioned on the forum - I appreciate that. Unfortunately however, it means that a valuable space for airing concerns has been taken away, and sadly contributes to the problem.

[MuddledMama]

That's exactly the problem in the industry, you speak out about abuse or just unfair treatment and you end up ostracised, people call you a liar or say you're a hater or jealous etc, it makes it less and less likely for others to speak up. It's not just vocational schools/ballet schools, this is happening up and down the country from local dance schools up to the most prestigious establishments. From personal experience, I know of lots of kids who have suffered terribly but they won't speak out about it because they have seen the consequences of speaking out and it's easier to just quietly leave the school/quit dance altogether.

[Balletmum55]

Couldn’t agree more. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Balletmum55

[angel]

Hear hear. ☺️

[Karen]

I have no personal knowledge or insight (other than from news reports) into the most current, dreadful situation, and do not feel that I can offer anything other than the expression of sadness and horror (and an element of relief that my dd made the choice she did). I am very surprised that there are no forum members out there who feel the need to say something about this. Open and honest dialogue, within the forum rules, is one of the most valuable aspects for members. I do feel that in the 9 years I have been a member, sadly, the debate about more controversial topics has diminished and something has been lost as a result. 

[taxi4ballet]

Thank you for your replies, and at this point I would like to ask that if people are going to comment, that the comments do not name specific extablishments or people, otherwise the moderators would have to remove the thread. 

[Whiteduvet]

Very interested in this discussion. Has something new been claimed  (if I’m allowed to ask that...?)? 

[taxi4ballet]

4 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said:

Very interested in this discussion. Has something new been claimed  (if I’m allowed to ask that...?)? 

I'll send you a PM

[Crystaltips]

Yes. An ITV investigation. It made the National news at 10pm yesterday. Despite being a day to bury bad news A levels train crash, coronavirus etc. It is a fact that all parents of students received an email from the Board of Trustees.

[taxi4ballet]

There are other forums used by parents, it could be that a fuller discussion might be possible elsewhere. I really don't want to put the Balletco moderators in an impossible position.

 

I have set up somewhere for discussions, if you would like to post, please PM me and I will tell you where it can be found online.

Edited August 14, 2020 by taxi4ballet

[glowlight]

I have been pondering long an hard whether to post on this topic.  

 

On the one hand I agree with Taxi that it is dangerous to perpetuate a conspiracy of silence.  I know there will be people who feel they should have spoken out about things they knew or had heard sooner.

 

On the other hand we should not be drawn into a cycle of gossip and speculation.  This doesn't help anyone.

 

We must encourage and support victims of abuse to speak out to the authorities.  Or even to the media if their voices are not being heard (as has happened in this case).

 

Above all I hope that these brave young women get the support they need as, speaking out now will have opened up old wounds.

 

I am deeply saddened by the whole thing.

[taxi4ballet]

The trouble is that it is very well known that many victims of abuse are children who don't even tell their parents. We aren't talking about a cycle of gossip and speculation. We are talking about getting to the rotten core and exposing it.

 

This has gone on for far too long, and I for one have had enough.

[taxi4ballet]

19 minutes ago, glowlight said:

We must encourage and support victims of abuse to speak out to the authorities.  Or even to the media if their voices are not being heard (as has happened in this case).

Outright abuse in whatever form, then yes. Definitely.

 

But what about all the low-level stuff?  "Mum, my teacher criticises me all the time" is hardly going to spur the cavalry into action.

[Kate_N]

3 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

I understand legal aspects from the moderators' point of view, and I know that specifics cannot be mentioned on the forum -

 

But this is a real thing! It's the way this forum survives. A legal action would sweep it away completely.

 

Perhaps look at it this way: if parents and dancers come here and read about what knowledgeable posters - the Moderators, the identifiable teachers who post here - say about the desirable best practices of ballet training, then perhaps they'll realise that maybe they're not in such a good situation. And can start to ask questions, under the cloak of anonymity, to help educate themselves about how things should be. 

I think that's a VERY useful role for this site to play.

 

And frankly, if people were publicly naming and shaming schools, studios and individual teachers, I would have very little respect for this site. Anyone can say anything and post it on the internet. This site has credibility, and - I hope - points the way to the principles and practices of good training rather than acting as a place for at worst, malicious gossip, and at best a kind of kangaroo court.

 

Edited to add: I followed the information given in another thread, and was shocked. I am so pleased the situation has come to light, and I applaud those brave people who have blown the whistle. But this site cannot trade in what could be seen as gossip (I'm not referring to the news yesterday, that is serious and shocking).

 

What we can all do on this site is talk about how ballet training should proceed, and what is good practice in teaching a tough unforgiving art, which needs tough resilient practitioners. 

 

It should be possible for a parent or student to come here and anonymously, outline their concern (eg bullying/harassment, or physically unsafe training techniques etc etc) in general terms, and receive advice and support in dealing with their concern with the specific people/school/studio with whom they have a grievance. We really shouldn't be in the business of "naming and shaming" - we cannot do that. But we can gently & discretely support those who are in the unenviable position of having to make complaints.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Kate_N

[Kate_N]

All my opinion, of course 🙂 (for whatever that's worth).

[Anon2]

1 hour ago, Jewel said:

 

dd calls it an open secret. 

I was heart broken to discover my dd and all her peers were aware too and she said as vocational students you end up losing your concept of what’s right and wrong. It is only since she made the decision to walk away from dance and mix with ‘normal’ people she realised what is so wrong in the dance world. 

[Crystaltips]

We are not talking about gossip or a witch-hunt. We are talking about a serious and credible piece of investigative journalism at a National level. Over 60 people have made statements including former teaching staff. Some have bravely spoken out without the cloak of anonymity. This is serious this is real and it’s happening now. Our children deserve better and they deserve to be safe. 

[taxi4ballet]

I agree. You only have to look at what's been happening recently in the world of gymnastics and in Hollywood to see what effect it has when a few brave people have the courage to speak out.

[Tulip]

Sometimes when concerns are raised, actual parents can turn against the parent raising those concerns. 

[LilyLongLegs]

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

There are other forums used by parents, it could be that a fuller discussion might be possible elsewhere. I really don't want to put the Balletco moderators in an impossible position.

 

I have set up somewhere for discussions, if you would like to post, please PM me and I will tell you where it can be found online.

Won't let me PM you 😞 can you message me the link please

[taxi4ballet]

PM sent - I might have to clear my inbox a bit.

[All4dancers]

43 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

PM sent - I might have to clear my inbox a bit.

I have also sent you a PM Taxi

[taxi4ballet]

17 minutes ago, All4dancers said:

I have also sent you a PM Taxi

Thanks, I've replied.

[Anna C]

May I just remind everyone of this section in our Forum rules, especially the part in bold:

 

“Discussion of schools and courses

 

This may lead to the expression of strong opinions, both positive and negative when experiences and views have understandably differed. Against that background, the general Acceptable Use Policy Conditions continue to apply but, as regards schools and courses, additional parameters are added.
    •    Posts about schools or courses must report personal experiences only (posted by the student, the student’s parent/guardian or the student’s teacher with permission).
    •    They must not include second-hand information or innuendo e.g. claiming to speak on someone else’s behalf, for “many people”, for “the majority of students” and so forth.
    •    Nothing should be included that could be construed as defamatory in any way and which could therefore lead to legal ramifications for the Forum and members.”

 

We have had to hide a couple of posts which mention friends of the posters’ children being directly involved in the ongoing investigation; for various - and hopefully obvious - reasons, this is not permitted. 

 

 

[Tulip]

Anna, I have documented my personal experiences as a mother, I’ve spoken, I’ve not mentioned names or schools, and yet my post was removed. I feel like I have been slapped once again, just for voicing a personal experience 🤷‍♀️Here’s me thinking we were all here to support, guide and offer advice, no doubt this post will be removed too. 

[Anna C]

1 minute ago, Tulip said:

Anna, I have documented my personal experiences as a mother, I’ve spoken, I’ve not mentioned names or schools, and yet my post was removed. I feel like I have been slapped once again, just for voicing a personal experience 🤷‍♀️Here’s me thinking we were all here to support, guide and offer advice, no doubt this post will be removed too. 

 

We haven’t removed any of your posts in this thread, Tulip. 

[Crystaltips]

Anna we are not the wrongdoers. Everything I have written is factually correct and I have documentary evidence to back it up. This is my final post on this forum. Ballet is a beautiful art form and it was my dds life for over 16 years. But for too long some people have believed themselves to be above the law. This is what should shock us. Not the fact that some other people dare to write posts about it. The cause of ballet training in this country will ultimately be helped by a better system of governance and oversight.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

[taxi4ballet]

Thank you Anna. I would at this point like to thank the moderators on the forum, they sometimes have an extremely difficult job to do, and they are all volunteers who willingly give up their time to do so. They have their hands tied when it comes to what can and cannot be discussed, so please could I ask you all to bear that in mind when posting on this thread. Thanks again.

 

Edited to add - Crystaltips, this wasn't aimed at you - we cross-posted.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by taxi4ballet

[Anna C]

4 minutes ago, Crystaltips said:

Anna we are not the wrongdoers. Everything I have written is factually correct and I have documentary evidence to back it up. This is my final post on this forum. Ballet is a beautiful art form and it was my dds life for over 16 years. But for too long some people have believed themselves to be above the law. This is what should shock us. Not the fact that some other people dare to write posts about it. The cause of ballet training in this country will ultimately be helped by a better system of governance and oversight.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

 

Crystaltips, we would not like to see anyone leave the forum but the simple facts are that we, as unpaid volunteers, can not and will not put our livelihoods, homes and families at risk of legal action just so that people can have freedom of speech.  The stark choice is abide by our rules which are in place out of necessity - we don’t just make them up on a whim - or set up your own forum.  

 

This is twice you’ve posted that “justice delayed is justice denied” and I very much hope that this is not aimed at the forum or its moderators, because if it is, your anger is misplaced.  

 

Only two establishments out of a large number of ballet schools are not permitted to be discussed on this forum, and we would like to be able to host a forum so that everybody can continue to discuss all the other schools and courses available, but we can only provide that and keep “Doing Dance” running if everybody chooses to abide by the rules.   I have endless patience but even I am getting very tired of having to explain the rules and why they are in place. 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

Thank you Anna. I would at this point like to thank the moderators on the forum, they sometimes have an extremely difficult job to do, and they are all volunteers who willingly give up their time to do so. They have their hands tied when it comes to what can and cannot be discussed, so please could I ask you all to bear that in mind when posting on this thread. Thanks again.

 

Edited to add - Crystaltips, this wasn't aimed at you - we cross-posted.

 

 

 

Thank you Taxi. Let me make clear once again that, through all of this, we have had to ensure the avoidance of discussing or mentioning certain schools due to legal issues.  We are not at liberty to share these at the moment, but had we not taken this approach it could have ended up costing the moderators a lot of money.  We have no corporate backing, so had anything happened we each would have been personally liable to cover any costs incurred, and we all know how steep these can be.  We certainly understand the frustration of worried parents and students not being able to air issues here, and we don't take lightly having to suppress any discussion. We have tried very hard to strike an appropriate balance between what can and can’t be said in order to ensure Doing Dance could stay open, and to ensure discussion of other institutions could continue.  Therefore, being accused by some of suppressing free speech and this being causal to lack of action against a school really sticks in our craw.   As Taxi mentions above, we have said many times that the best solution would be for parents to establish their own group outside the forum, to discuss what they want as freely as they like and to take any action they deemed fit.  

 

May we also remind posters that, concerning other institutions, comments made on any public forum should be about personal experience, of those of their child or student (with the parents' permission).  "My friend's friend's child had a bad experience at xxx" would only cause often inaccurate speculation. 

 

Karen says:  I do feel that in the 9 years I have been a member, sadly, the debate about more controversial topics has diminished and something has been lost as a result.  This may well be true, but it is a sad reflection of the times in which we live.  Debate is no longer allowed, nor expressing different opinions from those deemed acceptable.  There is always the threat of legal action (such is our litigious society) or being ripped to pieces on social media.  Neither of these is palatable to the moderators, all of whom are unpaid volunteers, and give their time and expertise generously.  Quite frankly, we can't afford and don't need the extra hassle. 

 

We wish anyone involved with any litigation the best outcome possible.

 

The Moderators

[Peony]

I think the story did probably get somewhat lost yesterday amongst ‘a’ levels etc. I’m really grateful to all the moderators and understand the stance, I think it’s wise to take discussions elsewhere. The fact that some schools have threatened legal action says something about them on its own. 
It must be incredibly difficult for parents with children who are away at school, teenagers are not the most communicative people so even if you’re aware of what good training should be how on Earth would you monitor the situation. I expect they shield parents from

the truth even more due to the worry that they’ll be taken away from the school

and thus their ballet training. It would certainly be my instinct to remove them from the situation. I can absolutely understand the anger, our children are so precious, but I wouldn’t be willing to take personal responsibility for others reviews either 

 

[alison]

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd describe 10 minutes at the beginning of News At Ten as "lost", exactly   (Which reminds me, there was an update tonight 20 or so minutes in, but it's now too late to catch it on ITV+1, I'm afraid)

[NJH]

2 hours ago, Crystaltips said:

Anna we are not the wrongdoers. Everything I have written is factually correct and I have documentary evidence to back it up. This is my final post on this forum. Ballet is a beautiful art form and it was my dds life for over 16 years. But for too long some people have believed themselves to be above the law. This is what should shock us. Not the fact that some other people dare to write posts about it. The cause of ballet training in this country will ultimately be helped by a better system of governance and oversight.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

 This  is not a court 

if your evidence  is  strong enough you take it to the   Police , Social Services and Ofsted  

discussing  it here damages it's crediblity as well as exposing the management team to  Legal action