The conspiracy of silence

[Crystaltips]

Oh it’s going to court alright. The principal of the school has just been relieved of her role. It was on the news in case you missed it 

[taxi4ballet]

1 minute ago, NJH said:

 This  is not a court 

if your evidence  is  strong enough you take it to the   Police , Social Services and Ofsted  

discussing  it here damages it's crediblity as well as exposing the management team to  Legal action 

We know that. And I don't appreciate your tone. It's exactly that sort of confrontational attitude that perpetuates the fear of reprisals in young students, and clearly demonstrates why they are too scared to say anything.

 

I started the thread because someone had to. And judging by the number of private messages I've had, I'm glad I did.

 

If you don't like it, tough.

[Jan McNulty]

NJH was absolutely correct in what she pointed out and I did not find the post confrontational.

 

I'm very glad you've had a lot of DMs and you have given people the opportunity to check you alternative platform.

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

Funny, it seemed to me that the poster was ordering us to keep silent.

 

This issue has been blown wide open and is now in the public domain and the national press. 

 

We are aware of the forum rules. However those rules don't prevent us from discussing issues without naming individuals or schools. I support the moderators and am keenly aware that by starting this thread I was going to give you all a headache, and for that I apologise. But I won't apologise for getting annoyed with a random poster telling me to shut up. Anyone would think they wanted all this to be swept under the carpet and not discussed anywhere at all.

[alison]

If you were taking something to court, surely the last thing you would want to be doing would be to be discussing the matter on an open internet forum and running the risk of prejudicing your case?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Sim]

To be fair I don’t think NJH was telling anyone to shut up, just reiterating the reasons why we have not been able to allow free discussion of this matter. 
 

This is naturally a very emotive issue and I am temporarily locking this thread before it becomes unpleasant.  

[Tulip]

It’s just so very sad, parents trust these people, and we feel absolutely awful. My daughter didn’t go to that school thank goodness, but the emotional abuse from age 12 was horrendous and only spoken about bit by bit now 

[taxi4ballet]

Thank you to the moderators for unlocking the thread, and once again, could I please re-iterate their requests that forum rules are adhered to. 

[Tulip]

On a positive note, and only talking for the ballet world, a lot of the abuse that was allowed to take place will now be stamped out. Your children about to embark on their well deserved places at vocational school, will hopefully never experience what we are hearing, the world is now watching 

[Ian Macmillan]

On a point of fact, this quotation from the ITV News piece in this morning's Links may be relevant for some people:

 

" In another development, Bath Spa University has also announced it has cut its ties with Ballet West.  Bath Spa University had approved the BA Ballet degree for delivery at the Ballet West since September 2019, but they told us they are “very concerned” by allegations and have ended their partnership with immediate effect."

 

 

[Crystaltips]

38 minutes ago, Ian Macmillan said:

On a point of fact, this quotation from the ITV News piece in this morning's Links may be relevant for some people:

 

" In another development, Bath Spa University has also announced it has cut its ties with Ballet West.  Bath Spa University had approved the BA Ballet degree for delivery at the Ballet West since September 2019, but they told us they are “very concerned” by allegations and have ended their partnership with immediate effect."

 

 

Bless you Ian. We are obviously very worried that degrees will not be awarded this year. But that pales into insignificance vs the serious allegations being made 

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

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[BalletMum2]

Dd1 & Dd2 have studied courses there. They did see a few things that made them question integrity. 

[Pas de Quatre]

It isn't just the awarding of this year's degrees that are in question, but the whole of student finance if there is no longer a degree course in place.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Pas de Quatre
Grammar

[Thecatsmother]

This does not relate to any dance school in particular but there is a file with the NSPCC logging incidents/concerns in dance schools which can be added to in confidence.

[Bluebird22]

Loss of degree status and funding punishes the students more than the school surely? Sends out completely the wrong message to anyone else who has suffered or is suffering at other schools, haven’t victims been through enough? And not just victims but students who have no experience or knowledge of these allegations who are left uncertain about their future and second guessing every part of their training.

This move plays directly into the hands of abusers, if you say anything your qualification and funding will be in jeopardy. 

[taxi4ballet]

People have always known that their funding or their place is in jeopardy if they say anything or complain. That hasn't changed. Students know all too well that they can be assessed out at any point or have their funding withdrawn, whether MDS, DaDa or a scholarship or bursary. So they keep quiet.

 

In this respect, students from lower income families suffer far more than those whose parents are paying full fees. The schools don't want their full-fee payers to take their money elsewhere. Those students tend to have a far easier ride, and are often shown considerable favouritism.

 

Qualification awarding bodies who can take their support away have the power to make or break a school. They have the leverage to ensure a school toes the line. Who wants to send their child to a school that is not accredited or cannot provide a qualification?

[Tulip]

No the school my daughter went to, the full fee paying students were treated as the ones who were less talented, even though obviously that wasn’t true. The ones on scholarships or burserys  were the chosen ones, but these awards could be taken away by the principle at any point, even though colleagues would disagree. 

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, Bluebird22 said:

Loss of degree status and funding punishes the students more than the school surely? Sends out completely the wrong message to anyone else who has suffered or is suffering at other schools, haven’t victims been through enough? And not just victims but students who have no experience or knowledge of these allegations who are left uncertain about their future and second guessing every part of their training.

This move plays directly into the hands of abusers, if you say anything your qualification and funding will be in jeopardy. 

 

I agree that current students should be able to retain their student finance and finish their degree, but this will only affect students starting their 3rd year in September, is that correct?  You do get a “gift” year with Student Finance anyway and if people cannot complete their degree for reasons outside their control, they should get in touch with SF as soon as possible to talk through their options. 

 

Let’s face it, if the uni *hadn’t* acted promptly there would have been a lot more questions.  It’s a no-win situation and again, people need to remember where to place the blame. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pas de Quatre]

I agree with Tulip. Schools have to report the destination of DaDa and MDS pupils and if the awarding bodies are not satisfied then the school will risk losing some or all of these awards. It used to be in a three year cycle and I haven't heard of any changes. So the pupils with awards are given more attention and more opportunities. Although yes the school can withdraw the award at any time. Full fee paying pupils are often treated as mere "ballast" to make the course viable. There are always more applicants than places, even without funding, so no problem if a pupil is withdrawn.

[drdance]

I may be wrong - and happy to be corrected - but I believe the immediate withdrawal of backing from Bath Spa affects the status of the qualification that the graduating cohort have worked for 3 years for ie 3 years working for a degree that will not be awarded. 
 

Plus funding etc withdrawn for all current students. Very sad and not fair to punish the students like this. 

[Kate_N]

2 hours ago, Anna C said:

Let’s face it, if the uni *hadn’t* acted promptly there would have been a lot more questions.  It’s a no-win situation and again, people need to remember where to place the blame

 

Indeed, once alerted to the situation, an ethical university would have to act quickly. At my place, alleged** breaches of the law on relationships with minors and unprofessional behaviour would break our 'Appropriate relationships" policy, and - even without any legal issues - would lead to a serious disciplinary charge of the persons concerned. 

 

However, it might be worth contacting the validating university as they may be in the process of transferring validation to another body. There certainly should be alternative arrangements made for all the students affected. Start at the bottom: there'll be a Quality Assurance office or the like in the university's administrative offices. It may come under the Registrar's or University Secretary's office (check their website). They'll be the people overseeing the quality assurance issues in validating degrees offered by non-universities. Ultimately, you may have to take it to the Office of Students or the university's"University Visitor." 

 

Good luck - the unintended consequences of this just show what can happen when one person allegedly** behaves inappropriately or possibly** illegally ... I've had to deal with staff-student relationships myself as an HoD in a university - in my view, even when the student is over 18, so the relationship is technically legal,  it is totally unethical, unprofessional, and makes me very angry. The fall out spreads so much further than the 2 people in the relationship.

 

**trying to stay legal and non-libellous.

[taxi4ballet]

Well hopefully the qualification issue can be sorted out, the students have found themselves in this awful predicament through no fault of their own. I sincerely hope the authorities will be looking at ways this can be rectified as soon as possible. Perhaps the RAD might be able to assist in pushing this forward.

[NJH]

5 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

Well hopefully the qualification issue can be sorted out, the students have found themselves in this awful predicament through no fault of their own. I sincerely hope the authorities will be looking at ways this can be rectified as soon as possible. Perhaps the RAD might be able to assist in pushing this forward.

Qualfication wise i think the biggest problem is for those who  are going  from the 2nd year int othe 3rd year ... as one would hope the  graduating  3rd years were all done and dusted  from an acdemic point of view 

 

[Anna C]

1 hour ago, drdance said:

I may be wrong - and happy to be corrected - but I believe the immediate withdrawal of backing from Bath Spa affects the status of the qualification that the graduating cohort have worked for 3 years for ie 3 years working for a degree that will not be awarded. 
 

Plus funding etc withdrawn for all current students. Very sad and not fair to punish the students like this. 

 

I’ve just skimmed through the most recent QAA monitoring report which is easily available online - it seems that the uni in question only agreed to a partnership in June 2019 with the first students to study the degree enrolled in Sept 2019.  Years 1 & 2 were studying a Higher National qualification which at present seems to still be the case.  If memory serves, this is not the first time the institution in question has been without a degree provider for year 3. 

 

As I said, I don’t think it reasonable to lay any blame at the university’s door. 

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[Pas de Quatre]

1 hour ago, taxi4ballet said:

Perhaps the RAD might be able to assist in pushing this forward.

I read somewhere today that RAD have suspended Jonathan Barton's membership. They wouldn't really have any jurisdiction over the school. 

[taxi4ballet]

The RAD should have enough clout. Other staff members presumably are also teaching the syllabus, and the school offers RAD teaching qualifications. At least that what I read somewhere in the last day or so. Heaven knows where.

[Bluebird22]

I don’t think other staff members are RAD members

[Peanut68]

A weird anomaly (RAD loophole?) I think often found in big & small schools alike is how often that lots of the teachers teach the RAD syllabus but often only one has ‘Registered Teacher Status’ with RAD so all exam entries go through them... I think this is partly due to the high cost/time commitment preventing teachers doing the organised RAD teacher training & lack of available funding or support (such as schools prepared to hire unqualified teachers & not prepared to invest in their staff’s continued training) & must in part also suggest there is not enough governance in the industry or perhaps enough weight or value placed in the various industry bodies qualifications? 

I cant imagine many areas of education where this can be the case? A maths teacher without a maths degree or diploma & PGCE (sorry if this is all wrong....am writing as onlooker not with any expertise)  But then few have to totally self fund courses to become qualified in mainstream teaching subjects to my knowledge? I know there are courses (such as dance degrees with RAD & other colleges) which I presume can attract student loan financing but on the whole so much in the dance world requires a high money outlay which - esp. if teaching in a typical more ‘recreational’ school - could take a very long time to recoup. So, whilst organisations, school owners, parents & students do not demand for schools to all only employ/work with qualified teachers, then we will never have the back up of those organisations to truly moderate & guarantee standards or even be able to be at all accountable for them. It devalues their brand & even the RTS as a qualification. It leads to RTS teachers entering candidates in their name from their schools (& often even from other schools) that they have not necessarily ever taught or even met! 

I think there needs to a far broader shake-up of so much in the dance world..... for instance, a qualified teacher will be one who has trained in safeguarding one presumes? And to retain RTS, then proof must be provided of ongoing CPD (& I hope - but do not know - if this then requires ongoing safeguarding training/registration/enhanced DBS checks etc to comply with latest best practices?) To chaperone young dancers a safeguarding online course has to be completed....yet to assist in a dance class this does not seem to be required? This ought not to be the case surely?  

So come on dance world - get evaluating & get proactive! And RAD (& I’m sure others...) clean your house to close these loopholes....make having RTS with these bodies a requirement for all teachers & not merely a rubber stamp for exam entries...

And this I anticipate will require  many more to enroll on courses....well, surely this then could bring fees down? Especially as so much is delivered online anyway (& not just since Covid) delivering costs & mentoring & asessng surely can be recouped by more being able to participate in training if it’s cheaper to do?

i ramble on again but hope people here get the gist....

 

[rowan]

45 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

I cant imagine many areas of education where this can be the case? A maths teacher without a maths degree or diploma & PGCE (

Lots of teachers actually won’t have these qualifications, especially not the PGCE, in the independent sector, and maybe not even a degree. And many teachers in both state and private won’t have a degree in the subject they teach.

[glowlight]

On 14/08/2020 at 17:57, glowlight said:

 

On the other hand we should not be drawn into a cycle of gossip and speculation.  This doesn't help anyone.

 

 

I want to be clear that when I wrote about a 'cycle of gossip and speculation'  I wasn't suggesting that the ITV news story was gossip and speculation.

 

I was trying to make the point that if someone like, me who knows nothing about the situation first hand, starts speculating on this forum, then it is gossip.

 

I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression!

 

 

[Bluebird22]

@Peanut68 it happens with other examining bodies too where not all teachers pay for their membership, even when they are qualified. To maintain my membership I have to complete 18 hours of CPD annually, keep my safeguarding certificate up to date, as well as DBS check. On average I spend £500 a year maintaining my membership not including travel expenses or hotel stays needed to complete CPD. That doesn’t include what I spent self funding my teaching qualification.