The conspiracy of silence

[Lisa O`Brien]

Can anyone provide a link to the news story? Or any link at all? Thanks.

[alison]

There's information on the Links forum, Lisa.

[Peanut68]

27 minutes ago, Bluebird22 said:

@Peanut68 it happens with other examining bodies too where not all teachers pay for their membership, even when they are qualified. To maintain my membership I have to complete 18 hours of CPD annually, keep my safeguarding certificate up to date, as well as DBS check. On average I spend £500 a year maintaining my membership not including travel expenses or hotel stays needed to complete CPD. That doesn’t include what I spent self funding my teaching qualification. 

Exactly illustrates my point - thank you for sharing your personal experience Bluebird

These high costs to maintain membership (& keep skills up to date & relevant) are what puts many off doing so....especially where perhaps they themselves are teaching in a low key way (eg. Running 2-3 adult classes once a week with no intention to take exams).

However, this ought not negate professionalism (& indeed I guess the whole safeguarding issue is more critical when teaching minors  - though again I question myself here as adults too can be vulnerable.)  And I know myself adults want to & should have opportunities to take exams & perform. 

Msybe more involvement by the ‘bodies’ is needed & more sliding scales of membership fees based on number of classes run/number of exam entrants annually/or a levy within fees charged to pupils that could be linked perhaps to insurance thereby providing parents/pupils a level of reassurance (though can see how this would be difficult to enforce & keep a check on) Ir a while new model whereby students pay an element of fee registration....lower costs to teachers as this would be subsidised by pupil payments so in effect larger schools would ‘pay’ more than smaller....

I’m sort of thinking how annually fir my sons rugby (& I think football t FIFA too?) we have to pay 2 ekemebtsof subscriptijn - one to the RFU which includes an element of insurance & also means we parents & the player sign up to rules & regulations - not a bad idea for dance too? 

More of my personal musings (not from any truly qualified point I must add!) 

[taxi4ballet]

Thank you all so much, there have been so messages showing support for this campaign (which I think it has become now, so thank you all again), apologies if I've missed you, I think I have replied to everyone now. Some of you have told me some truly upsetting stories and you have my unswerving support - and I hope things work out for you and your DC.

 

Please carry on without me for a while, I have been glued to my laptop for 48 hours and I need some downtime!

 

** And sorry to the moderators for making your weekend more complicated than you thought it would be.

 

 

[NJH]

9 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

I read somewhere today that RAD have suspended Jonathan Barton's membership. They wouldn't really have any jurisdiction over the school. 

not sure  where the RAD would fit in other than  suspending / expelling  / rescinding  teacher status of individuals involved ...  
CDMT may have some relevance  but in terms of the institution  the  killer will be gewtting accreditation for the academic awards

 

[NJH]

6 hours ago, Bluebird22 said:

@Peanut68 it happens with other examining bodies too where not all teachers pay for their membership, even when they are qualified. To maintain my membership I have to complete 18 hours of CPD annually, keep my safeguarding certificate up to date, as well as DBS check. On average I spend £500 a year maintaining my membership not including travel expenses or hotel stays needed to complete CPD. That doesn’t include what I spent self funding my teaching qualification. 

i was joking with  one my teachers about this   saying  'well you can  write  Ballet Retreats off against  tax as CPD' 

[taxi4ballet]

35 minutes ago, NJH said:

i was joking with  one my teachers about this   saying  'well you can  write  Ballet Retreats off against  tax as CPD' 

I used to work for an accountancy firm which dealt mainly with the finances of television personalities and people in the film industry. You'd be surprised what you can write off against tax when you're in the performing arts.

[NJH]

20 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Exactly illustrates my point - thank you for sharing your personal experience Bluebird

These high costs to maintain membership (& keep skills up to date & relevant) are what puts many off doing so....especially where perhaps they themselves are teaching in a low key way (eg. Running 2-3 adult classes once a week with no intention to take exams).

However, this ought not negate professionalism (& indeed I guess the whole safeguarding issue is more critical when teaching minors  - though again I question myself here as adults too can be vulnerable.)  And I know myself adults want to & should have opportunities to take exams & perform. 

Msybe more involvement by the ‘bodies’ is needed & more sliding scales of membership fees based on number of classes run/number of exam entrants annually/or a levy within fees charged to pupils that could be linked perhaps to insurance thereby providing parents/pupils a level of reassurance (though can see how this would be difficult to enforce & keep a check on) Ir a while new model whereby students pay an element of fee registration....lower costs to teachers as this would be subsidised by pupil payments so in effect larger schools would ‘pay’ more than smaller....

I’m sort of thinking how annually fir my sons rugby (& I think football t FIFA too?) we have to pay 2 ekemebtsof subscriptijn - one to the RFU which includes an element of insurance & also means we parents & the player sign up to rules & regulations - not a bad idea for dance too? 

More of my personal musings (not from any truly qualified point I must add!) 

If a teacher isn't  running graded classes  themselves on their own account(including  Discovering Repetoire for RAD teachers - because that is basically adult grades ) / setting out to offer coaching for grades / DR / VGEs  what do  they gain from paying  out to be  a registered teacher  ?    they can describe themselves truthfully  ( by stating what  course they  completed to  qualify for the status  they no longer maintain ) and accurately  in a way (not claiming to the registered teacher / centre)  which  doesn't show this to be an issue ( unless you  are in the know) and  can pay seperately  as a licensee if they wish to  teach Silver Swans branded  material to that  demographic , and teach for other teachers / schools on courses aiming for  grades etc - just not act as Applicant

 

[annaliesey]

On 16/08/2020 at 08:00, Bluebird22 said:

Loss of degree status and funding punishes the students more than the school surely? Sends out completely the wrong message to anyone else who has suffered or is suffering at other schools, haven’t victims been through enough? And not just victims but students who have no experience or knowledge of these allegations who are left uncertain about their future and second guessing every part of their training.

This move plays directly into the hands of abusers, if you say anything your qualification and funding will be in jeopardy. 

THIS!!!

 

thank you for saying this!!  
 

we need to stop uni partners withdrawing like this as it punished the students and not the abusers! 
 

This is precisely why people don’t come forward sooner because this will not be forgotten now in future. 

[taxi4ballet]

And as of today they have also learned that they can't rely on the examining bodies to investigate complaints or allegations properly either.

[annaliesey]

Couple of things in case anyone interested

 

The school has been taken over by the board of trustees since the principal’s resignation 

 

they are still intending to run the HNC, HND and pre-prof course (doesn’t need uni partner). 

 

the RAD teachers qualification is taught by RAD not the school 

 

Bath Spa Uni are dealing with degree students but unfortunately none of the alternatives are ballet focused so many students are very upset and feel they are being punished for things that are “alleged” at this stage and are losing their degrees prematurely and without justification. 

 

the school board of trustees emailed today to say they were still not aware of any police complaints and were not in receipt of any complaints to them directly

 

they reiterated they were seeking a new uni partner 

 

 

[Ian Macmillan]

According to ITV News, matters have moved on somewhat:

Police investigation launched after ITV News uncovers allegations of grooming at prestigious UK ballet school | ITV News
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-17/police-investigation-launched-after-itv-news-uncovers-allegations-of-grooming-at-prestigious-uk-ballet-school

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

Thank you Ian.

 

One of the things mentioned on the news was that the trustees were not in receipt of any complaints.

 

This is an abstract observation, and obviously not connected in any way to anything, but if ever I'm expecting a communication and it doesn't arrive, I make sure that my emails are working properly and that I have given people the correct email address. Just saying.

[Ian Macmillan]

There has also been a statement from the RAD:

 

https://www.royalacademyofdance.org/rad-statement-on-ballet-west/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=BalletWest

 

 

[annaliesey]

55 minutes ago, Ian Macmillan said:

According to ITV News, matters have moved on somewhat:

Police investigation launched after ITV News uncovers allegations of grooming at prestigious UK ballet school | ITV News
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-17/police-investigation-launched-after-itv-news-uncovers-allegations-of-grooming-at-prestigious-uk-ballet-school

 

 

That might be in tomorrow’s email then !! 

[Nama]

8 hours ago, annaliesey said:

THIS!!!

 

thank you for saying this!!  
 

we need to stop uni partners withdrawing like this as it punished the students and not the abusers! 
 

This is precisely why people don’t come forward sooner because this will not be forgotten now in future. 

I think that there needs to be a good look at the various schools complaints policies and practices. Speaking from experience it’s very daunting to initiate a complaint and to follow through to a conclusion is very draining for parents and students. The fact that parents and students struggle to be heard and know that the experience will be combative. There needs to be an independent body outside of school governors and staff that parents can appeal to outside of getting lawyers and challenging the school. Independence is the key. 1 supposed independent person on a school initiated panel ( as required under schools inspectorate guidelines) is not enough to ensure justice for parents who have genuine complaints. 

[Pas de Quatre]

Perhaps concerns should be sent to Ofsted. Isn't that what happened with Tring? Complaints were ignored at school level for years but eventually there was an special inspection without warning to the school. Measures that needed to be taken were set out in a letter to the school and the then Director of Dance was put on "gardening leave" for many months before leaving. All is documented publicly and there were discusions on this board. A search should find them.

[BalletMum2]

@Pas de Quatre

Not every School is affiliated with Ofsted. There is a lot of Dance Schools that don’t have this kind of Protection. However a lot of MT School do.  

[Anna C]

The only people who inspect the institution in question are the QAA; however, looking at their reports it seems they only inspect the academic provision, CPD etc.  We’ve had this discussion previously about private “schools” for 16+ dance training that are not obliged to be inspected by anyone from a pastoral care or safeguarding point of view.   This is a flaw in the system of 16+ dance training. 

[windover60]

So are dance lower schools inspected by ofsted then Anna or another body iss are private schools ? Does this only cover academics ? 

[Anna C]

Just now, windover60 said:

So are dance lower schools inspected by ofsted then Anna or another body iss are private schools ? Does this only cover academics ? 

 

OFSTED are only responsible for England in any case, as is the ISI (Independent Schools Inspectorate) who - I believe - inspect places like White Lodge.  I’m not sure whether Education Scotland inspects dance schools.

[Kate_N]

51 minutes ago, Anna C said:

We’ve had this discussion previously about private “schools” for 16+ dance training that are not obliged to be inspected by anyone from a pastoral care or safeguarding point of view.   This is a flaw in the system of 16+ dance training. 

 

and 

 

Quote

There needs to be an independent body outside of school governors and staff that parents can appeal to outside of getting lawyers and challenging the school. Independence is the key.

 

By their very nature independent fee-paying schools rely on fees being paid. For this, families feel they purchase something not available to everyone, for whatever reason families feel that they need to do so (and you can see from the current A Level debacle how purchasing an academic education very much adds to pupils' social & educational advantages).

 

It seems to me that families need to understand both the advantages & disadvantages of purchasing an education. Independent schools are just that - independent. This has huge advantages to pupils (viz. current A levels) but perhaps families need to be more aware of the disadvantages. In this case one disadvantage is the less public inspection - or indeed no public inspection - of standards. Those of us involved in education funded publicly are held up to scrutiny about how we spend this money (this includes universities who are subject to several layers of quite intense scrutiny). And rightly so.

 

But independent schools may well be independent because they don't want to participate in this public scrutiny. Perhaps we all need to be more aware of this. 

 

And ultimately, families have power by withdrawing their money. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Kate_N

[Anna C]

28 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

But independent schools may well be independent because they don't want to participate in this public scrutiny. Perhaps we all need to be more aware of this. 

 

And ultimately, families have power by withdrawing their money. 

 

Absolutely.  Unfortunately, while private institutions can simply choose to be accountable to nobody, they can also set their own terms and conditions - including penalty fees for withdrawing from the course, regardless of the reason for withdrawing.

 

This could mean - ironically - that people may not be able to afford to withdraw their money.

[Peanut68]

1 hour ago, Anna C said:

The only people who inspect the institution in question are the QAA; however, looking at their reports it seems they only inspect the academic provision, CPD etc.  We’ve had this discussion previously about private “schools” for 16+ dance training that are not obliged to be inspected by anyone from a pastoral care or safeguarding point of view.   This is a flaw in the system of 16+ dance training. 

I’m feeling rather shocked & ill

informed....clearly I’ve not thought to read enough or ask enough questions....yes, I knew ‘private’ schools do not adhere to same rules/scrutiny as ‘normal’ state funded (how do state funded academies fit in this? And MDS/DaDa supported dance courses ARE state funded in effect) hence can employ people in roles without perhaps the ‘traditional expected qualifications’ (& yes, I appreciate that sone fantastic teachers come more from a place of educating from high depth personal experience in professional careers etc) BUT surely the safeguarding & pastoral care for anyone under 18 should still be subject to exactly the same ‘rules’ ‘regulations’ ‘inspections’ ‘monitoring’ & ‘complaints & grievances’ procedures as absolutely anywhere where young people study/play/work....

Realuse we parents can be very naive & trusting & possibly a little ‘star struck’ when looking at institutions/teachers etc....be it local/national/international full or part time courses or classes.....

I truly hope this makes us & they industry’ wise up quick!

We must also acknowledge that very many ‘private’ schools (including I’m sure some vocational ones our youngsters attend) do comply to relevant safeguarding & pastoral guidelines  

& accountability.....

But it is our responsibility as adults to ensure our young people are aware of what is acceptable behaviour & what is not & to not be starry eyed or just accept where they see ‘favouritism’ as ok/normal but to question & ‘look out’ for wrong doing & look out for their peers too.... difficult I know in what has become a very competitive arena (remember they’ve all just competed for places for funding & now will do again for parts in shows, to be chosen for competitions etc & then for jobs) Plus it’s all very much part of how they look physically.....and at a time when they are only just becoming fully aware of their own bodies/sexuality/desires etc..... (this goes for males & females who can both be vulnerable & manipulated & abused.)

I’m aware that it’s hard for ‘bodies’ like the RAD to get involved beyond ‘chucking members off their lists of RTS or withdrawing paid membership.... and therein lies the chief issue....elite sports & arts training such as dance NEED a truly independent regulating body to protect & support our youngsters (& the sports & arts themselves) I see a need for perhaps a new Government (not just industry)  funded  & publicly accountable body to oversea across these areas with specialist divisions (for dance/music/drama/gymnastics/
football/rugby/tennis/swimming etc etc etc)  
My musings...

[Kate_N]

1 hour ago, Peanut68 said:

Realuse we parents can be very naive & trusting & possibly a little ‘star struck’ when looking at institutions/teachers etc....be it local/national/international full or part time courses or classes.

 

Indeed. I think that parents really need to do due diligence about this, and not rely on someone else/the state/public money/regulation. That's part of the issue, it seems to me - that there is excellent state-funded education, for which the state pays to have inspected, regulated, monitored.

 

However, in my experience of various facets of the UK education system, there are people, groups etc who deliberately do not want to be part of a national system of standardised education and regulation. And not always for nefarious purposes, but perhaps philosophical, or religious etc etc etc. 

 

But if someone is buying something, especially something as expensive (in many ways, not just cash) & precious as a child's education, it really is a purchaser's duty to do due diligence ... 

[alison]

Naïve and trusting - yes, I suspect a lot of us are, particularly if we've grown up in, shall we say, less complicated times?  The potential is everywhere these days, if you're alert to it.  I remember being shocked some years ago when the family GP told me it was a red flag that the local chippy was giving the children free chips - I'd just thought "Oh, that's nice of them", but she pointed out that it was a potential grooming issue, for goodness knows what purpose   It must be a fine line between protecting your children and making them paranoid, these days.

[NJH]

37 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

Indeed. I think that parents really need to do due diligence about this, and not rely on someone else/the state/public money/regulation. That's part of the issue, it seems to me - that there is excellent state-funded education, for which the state pays to have inspected, regulated, monitored.

 

However, in my experience of various facets of the UK education system, there are people, groups etc who deliberately do not want to be part of a national system of standardised education and regulation. And not always for nefarious purposes, but perhaps philosophical, or religious etc etc etc. 

 

But if someone is buying something, especially something as expensive (in many ways, not just cash) & precious as a child's education, it really is a purchaser's duty to do due diligence ... 

 however where these establishments are  inside the  net of MDS  , DaDa  and even  'standard'  HE student funding ...  there is an assumption  that  this due diligence is in place ... 

the  reality   as those  who have professional experience in education, social care and healthcare will attest  often falls short

 

[Anna C]

28 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

But if someone is buying something, especially something as expensive (in many ways, not just cash) & precious as a child's education, it really is a purchaser's duty to do due diligence ... 

 

Again, I agree, Kate; this is obviously easier when all the information  - including previous pupils’ or parents’ experiences - is freely available though, and for various reasons, that’s not always the case.  

 

When you combine that lack of information with the high demand for places, the desperation of our children to follow their dreams, and the veiled threats of “well if you’re not happy, there are plenty of other dancers who will happily take your place” (the performing arts being prime territory for what I call an environment of enforced gratitude) it can be almost impossible to set all that aside and pull your young adult from that environment, regardless of gut feeling (which I certainly wish I’d paid more attention to at times).  There is much more at stake and many more emotions involved than, say, purchasing a new car - more’s the pity. 

[taxi4ballet]

Not really sure how parents can be responsible for due diligence. There's only so much a parent can check. After all, it isn't exactly easy to find out anything about some schools, is it? 

 

 

 

[glissade]

3 hours ago, Anna C said:

3 hours ago, Kate_N said:

But if someone is buying something, especially something as expensive (in many ways, not just cash) & precious as a child's education, it really is a purchaser's duty to do due diligence ... 

 

Again, I agree, Kate; this is obviously easier when all the information  - including previous pupils’ or parents’ experiences - is freely available though, and for various reasons, that’s not always the case.  

Exactly this - if information is censored, how is it possible to know??

[Kate_N]

3 hours ago, Anna C said:

this is obviously easier when all the information  - including previous pupils’ or parents’ experiences - is freely available though, and for various reasons, that’s not always the case.  

 

Absolutely. 

 

And this is where websites like this one can help. Of course, we all understand the reasons for not being able to be explicit, but in general terms, a place like BalletCo (or BalletTalkforDancers in the US) which is based on concrete first-hand experience from parents & dancers, and expert knowledge from teachers, can help to educate parents and families about the foundations & practices for ballet training which are desirable.

 

But, for example, I imagine if a dancer or parent had posted here about the specific teaching practices of the recently-resigned teachers in teaching a plié, BUT without mentioning names or schools - a lot of teachers would have said "No, no, no, there is no need for a teacher to be in that position in relation to a student's body." (I'm trying to be discreet here). And a lot of parents might have looked far more closely at the behaviour of their children's teachers.

 

It must be so upsetting & frustrating for the majority of teachers - who are clear about behaviour and safeguarding and boundaries - to see what is going on in the minority of places. 

[taxi4ballet]

7 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

 I agree, it is exploitative of the power imbalance between teacher & student - no matter how old the student is.

 

Congrats to @taxi4ballet and other parents for gathering together and thinking through how you can do positive things to try to stop this pernicious unprofessionalism.

 

And @taxi4ballet would a lack of openness, or the kind of bullying that @Anna C describes (I think bullying is the appropriate description here) be a red flag? Some schools seem to have turned such lack of openness & reference to the harsh competition as an indication of how good they are. Maybe we need to reverse that - start seeing some of these behaviours as indicative of problems, rather than as a kind of "Oh well it's tough to get into and they don't tell us anything as they are the experts" as unacceptable and a reason not to buy into their narrative?

 

Whenever there is a power imbalance between two people, there is the opportunity for one to exploit the other. 

 

All I did was open the discussion. If I hadn't started the thread, no doubt someone else would have started one by now, at least I hope so!

 

A lack of openness certainly could be a red flag. On the other hand, so many places can trumpet all their different policies at you, whether it be anti-bullying or whatever else, but when push comes to shove and they need to actually implement them? They ain't worth the paper they're written on.

 

One thing I will add is this - Not long before my dd left vocational training and in preparation for a meeting with them, I emailed my dd's vocational school and asked them to send me their student welfare policy and safeguarding documents. Three years later and I'm still waiting.

[Peony]

6 hours ago, Kate_N said:

But if someone is buying something, especially something as expensive (in many ways, not just cash) & precious as a child's education, it really is a purchaser's duty to do due diligence ... 

my opinion is the opposite to this. Safeguarding is the responsibility of the state, even more so for vulnerable groups. Individuals simply don’t have the access to information from multiple sources and institutions which the State can have. The general public don’t have access to local council safeguarding reports, or concerns raised to the police or a right to examine evidence held within the schools. If you look at the CQC they inspect private as well as state provision for this very reason. For over 18’s who are adults and don’t have vulnerabilities it’s perhaps more debatable but for under 18’s it should absolutely be a government reaponsibility. I’m not sure how parents could be expected to know what is happening in a ballet class which they have no admission to