The conspiracy of silence

[Peony]

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-protection-system/gillick-competence-fraser-guidelines

[Pas de Quatre]

 

Gillick Competence

 

I was just about to post this Peony.  So I thought I might as well anyway.  

[Charliesmum]

Hi, I am an adult and child safeguarding consultant. I am an ex teacher an£ have an interest in the case. If I can be of any help please pm x

ps. I also have a son and daughter who dance, my son is about to start at a vocational school

[taxi4ballet]

Parents can and do everything they possibly can. They can visit the school, meet staff (and in some cases selected students), watch performances and observe classes, look at graduate destinations, listen to talks by the principal, read all the policy documents and goodness knows what else.

 

They might look online for advice from other parents and stumble across this forum in the process. They might ask questions or avidly read existing threads about the vocational school that has offered their child that rare and precious thing, a place. They will do everything they can think of, and to be honest, most parents (at least in the early years) know diddly squat about ballet or what to look for.

 

What they can't do is uncover the negatives. They can't interview students who were assessed out. They don't hear about the legal battles, the bullying, the broken dreams, the eating disorders, the psychological torment that some have gone through. Because, until now, it has all been hushed up.

 

You cannot lay the blame at the door of the parents.

 

Most students don't experience these things, but he fact that only a few suffer this fate is irrelevant, because the only acceptable level of abuse in any school is none.

 

 

 

[BalletMum2]

2 hours ago, Kate_N said:

 

I hope that parents will see what has allegedly happened at Ballet West, and maybe exert their considerable power & influence (and parents DO have power & influence, I see what my local studio director does to keep parents happy in normal ordinary matters of dance education!) to

 

[BalletMum2]

@taxi2ballet

No parent should harbour the blame. As parents we can only look, listen, take he’d what others say. Look at the Sats, the practices of care in place. But even then; it’s all glossy. 
However once a Parent does find out something is wrong. That’s when the said parent speaks at great length to their child.  Reassure that no matter what, you believe them, comfort. From then.. work out what’s the next steps will be.  
Trust me it’s a lot easier said than done. As the PA World is very fickle. Not much Independant governance.  Positions of ppl do use their power. 
That’s were the need for change must be. 

[Farawaydancer]

22 minutes ago, BalletMum2 said:

@taxi2ballet
Trust me it’s a lot easier said than done. As the PA World is very fickle. Not much Independant governance.  Positions of ppl do use their power. 
That’s were the need for change must be. 

People use their positions to bully, manipulate and abuse in all professions; sadly it’s the way of the world, and lots of adults have their lives ruined because of these abusers. The difference here of course is that our children are entering the profession as children and obviously need additional protections because of that, but it would be disingenuous to imply that it’s an issue which affects PA in particular. 

[taxi4ballet]

But it does affect performing arts in particular. Leaving aside sport for a moment (which is a whole other can of worms), what other career or profession starts training their employees when they are children? How many other professions actually employ children?

 

Parents are not to blame for not checking their proposed choice of school carefully enough.

Say you take your children on an aircraft. Do you ask to see the pilot's qualifications, check the aircraft's maintenance log, or make sure they've put the right amount of fuel on board? No. You are putting your lives and those of your children in the hands of professionals that you trust implictly, and you expect all safety procedures to have been followed to the letter.

[drdance]

The trouble is - no one will put their head above the parapet and shout loudly enough that things are not ok. While there are lots of wonderful dance teachers out there, there are also some poor students who have been bullied, mistreated and worse. Where do these people go to report this when it’s not technically illegal? Bad practice needs to be a thing of the past but unless people can report it, it will keep going. 

[glissade]

18 minutes ago, drdance said:

The trouble is - no one will put their head above the parapet and shout loudly enough that things are not ok. While there are lots of wonderful dance teachers out there, there are also some poor students who have been bullied, mistreated and worse. Where do these people go to report this when it’s not technically illegal? Bad practice needs to be a thing of the past but unless people can report it, it will keep going. 

.... which comes full circle back round to the question, how can people dare to raise their head above the parapet when they are threatened with legal action and effectively silenced?

Edited August 20, 2020 by glissade

[Anna C]

38 minutes ago, glissade said:

.... which comes full circle back round to the question, how can people dare to raise their head above the parapet when they are threatened with legal action and effectively silenced?

 

Exactly that, glissade.  ITV news has the money, manpower, legal knowhow and clout to go to court and challenge gagging orders - individuals - for example parents - do not.  

[windover60]

It is reassuring that this thread has now reopened. Please make sure that the itv details stay on the forum. Their investigation is completely confidential and they are very sensitive when talking to students. They are keen to hear about all experiences not just the current high profile investigation. It really feels a positive way to make these issues heard and change things for the better for future students. 

[Anna C]

The ITV contact information as well as national helplines are now in a pinned thread at the top of Doing Dance. 

[taxi4ballet]

I would like at this point to offer some thanks:

 

To the moderators, I am sure we would all agree that they have had an extremely difficult job over the last few days, and I am pleased and relieved that the thread has now been re-opened.

 

To all the parents and others on the forum in support of this campaign - many of whom have sent me messages (I have literally lost count now). Some of you have entrusted me with very sensitive information and you can rest assured that what you have told me will remain private.

 

To all the many wonderful dance teachers out there, and there are far more of you than there are bad apples.

 

And last but not least to the hardworking people of ITV.

[drdance]

I wrote this a while ago and this is a good place to start, I feel.

[Anon2]

4 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

I would like at this point to offer some thanks:

 

To the moderators, I am sure we would all agree that they have had an extremely difficult job over the last few days, and I am pleased and relieved that the thread has now been re-opened.

 

To all the parents and others on the forum in support of this campaign - many of whom have sent me messages (I have literally lost count now). Some of you have entrusted me with very sensitive information and you can rest assured that what you have told me will remain private.

 

To all the many wonderful dance teachers out there, and there are far more of you than there are bad apples.

 

And last but not least to the hardworking people of ITV.

And I think you deserve a huge amount of thanks from the dance community too @taxi4ballet for starting this thread and being there for those that have contacted you.

[BalletMum2]

Just now, Jane said:

And I think you deserve a huge amount of thanks from the dance community too @taxi4ballet for starting this thread and being there for those that have contacted you.

Totally agree with you. 
@taxi4ballet has helped so many open up and express their thoughts and emotions. ESP when been scoffed at in the past. xx

[2dancersmum]

"the only people who inspect the institution in question are the QAA; however, looking at their reports it seems they only inspect the academic provision, CPD etc.  We’ve had this discussion previously about private “schools” for 16+ dance training that are not obliged to be inspected by anyone from a pastoral care or safeguarding point of view.   This is a flaw in the system of 16+ dance training. "

 

 

 

 

I know nothing of other schools but I do know that the Hammond is inspected by Ofsted and ISI and they do include pastoral and safeguarding for under 18s. I remember that when my DD attended 1st year students (16 yr olds) on the diploma courses could live anywhere and that was picked up the inspectors and consequently rules were changed to ensure under 18 yr olds had to be in approved landlady accommodation .

 

I admit its not something I picked up on prior to her starting there. School on the news on the other hand was a red flag for us and we turned it down.

•  

[Anna C]

4 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

I would like at this point to offer some thanks:

 

To the moderators, I am sure we would all agree that they have had an extremely difficult job over the last few days, and I am pleased and relieved that the thread has now been re-opened.

 

To all the parents and others on the forum in support of this campaign - many of whom have sent me messages (I have literally lost count now). Some of you have entrusted me with very sensitive information and you can rest assured that what you have told me will remain private.

 

To all the many wonderful dance teachers out there, and there are far more of you than there are bad apples.

 

And last but not least to the hardworking people of ITV.

 

Thanks, taxi.  Please all, do remember that all posts *must* abide by our Forum’s Acceptable Use Policy, to which all members agree upon joining.

 

Please also note that we Moderators may have to lock this or other threads overnight on occasion - it’s nothing personal but as you know, we are all volunteers and there are of course legal issues that we have to be particularly aware of.

 

If we don’t have to wake up to multiple posts that have broken Forum rules (unwittingly in many cases) and that need to be hidden and need urgent discussion, it means we’re more likely to be able to keep threads open in the longer term. 

 

Many thanks, everyone,

 

Anna C

 

[taxi4ballet]

All I did was post first, that's all. But thank you.

 

Keep up the momentum folks, and if I see you slacking off, I shall be back screaming and kicking again 😄

 

 

[Tulip]

Very sad, and I hundred percent appreciate what you forum moderates do for this forum. However I won’t be contributing any further on this subject, I’ve tried to offer advice and support for future dancers and parents, but I appear to unwittingly break the rules, it’s hard to stay to the rules when you are trying to guide or offer advice. sometimes I would have liked a shoulder to cry on, especially during some of the times when certain situations were wrong very wrong, but you had no where to turn to. 
So I don’t want to break any rules, or upset anyone, I’d best just keep quiet. 

[taxi4ballet]

40 minutes ago, Tulip said:

Very sad, and I hundred percent appreciate what you forum moderates do for this forum. However I won’t be contributing any further on this subject, I’ve tried to offer advice and support for future dancers and parents, but I appear to unwittingly break the rules, it’s hard to stay to the rules when you are trying to guide or offer advice. sometimes I would have liked a shoulder to cry on, especially during some of the times when certain situations were wrong very wrong, but you had no where to turn to. 
So I don’t want to break any rules, or upset anyone, I’d best just keep quiet. 

A feeling I know all too well.

Tulip, you are a valuable and long-standing member of this forum, and everyone has a voice. I've found it extremely difficult over the last week to find the right voice and I too have got it wrong. Don't throw in the towel.

[Tulip]

2 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said:

A feeling I know all too well.

Tulip, you are a valuable and long-standing member of this forum, and everyone has a voice. I've found it extremely difficult over the last week to find the right voice and I too have got it wrong. Don't throw in the towel.

I’m not throwing in the towel, I just feel that there is no point in trying to tell people, because it’s so difficult not to tell the truth without breaking the rules. It’s also important to try not to scare people as it’s not all bad either. There are lots and lots of good points, but there are so many bad points that should never ever have happened and is so unforgivable, especially when you are talking about a child, a long way from home. 

[drdance]

Tulip, all I can say is - if you feel able - share the information you have. It can be anonymous but I believe that all the institutions where abuse has happened need to be held to account and enough noise made so that the collective voice is finally heard. 
 

I also say this to any other parents or adults who experienced bad practice during their dance training, to become part of this movement. I understand that it is hard and traumatic and many people do not want to go over the past and that is completely ok too. But if you’re still angry and you want to be heard, there is now finally somewhere willing to listen. 

[BalletMum2]

19 minutes ago, drdance said:

Tulip, all I can say is - if you feel able - share the information you have. It can be anonymous but I believe that all the institutions where abuse has happened need to be held to account and enough noise made so that the collective voice is finally heard. 
 

I also say this to any other parents or adults who experienced bad practice during their dance training, to become part of this movement. I understand that it is hard and traumatic and many people do not want to go over the past and that is completely ok too. But if you’re still angry and you want to be heard, there is now finally somewhere willing to listen. 

Totally agreeing with you @drdance. This ugly area - and I say ugly in every strongest stance. Pandora’s Box has finally been lifted/ripped off. 
I do not know what has happed @Tulipbut I hope you and your family are ok. I get the understanding of “what can I say/can’t say” breaking rules, plus trying not to scare people. It’s not easy to deal let alone cope. 
I hope you don’t disappear. I made that mistake. It didn’t do me any good. So I’m here, trying to make my stand to help in some small way of clearing up The Arts. ESP in the field of Dance. 
Sending you a warming hug from one parent to another 

[glissade]

I don't understand why it isn't possible for somebody to write: "In an un-named school, this happend to my child: xyz"

 

If these anonymised stories were available, then perhaps others wouldn't feel so alone, and others again would know what to watch out for. It isn't a question of naming and shaming - it's about doing the best that is possible with the resources that are available.

[alison]

I don't think it's quite that simple: read enough posts here and you'll realise that, despite the use of pseudonyms, quite a few posters here know or at least recognise each other and/or each other's children.  Or there are clues around if you care to look for them: a parent may have proudly announced that their DC has won some competition or role or a place at a school or even a position in a company, something that will at the very least narrow down the possibilities of who they are.  Even if it's several years in the past, in a thread that nobody's looked at in ages, it's still there and might make it possible to identify a child, and/or their school/company etc.  Only recently, I referred to a poster as "the one whose DC ..." about something which happened several years ago.  So if you're going to reveal something, and especially if it's sensitive, you might think twice.

 

As for what to watch out for, well, I'm not sure how much the "red flags" actually differ from what you'd need to be alert for at a normal school, or at least a normal boarding-type school, really.  I suspect it might be quite enlightening to compare and contrast safeguarding policies, terms and conditions and the like between several schools, if you have that opportunity.  DrDance has already posted a fairly comprehensive-looking list of matters relating more to the training side.

 

________________________________

 

I'm going to put this thread to bed for the night now.

[Anna C]

10 hours ago, glissade said:

don't understand why it isn't possible for somebody to write: "In an un-named school, this happend to my child: xyz"

 

Well, this IS possible, glissade - as long as it’s about your own child/yourself/your student if you have the parents’ permission - just as set out in our forum rules. 🙂

 

What isn’t possible or permitted is to post anything that could be construed as defamatory, things that are hearsay, or anything about someone else’s children (e.g. “my child’s friend”).  These rules are not new and are as clearly set out as we can make them.  

 

Everyone:  As we’ve said previously, the choice is simple - we are either able to keep the Doing Dance forum open for people to post within the rules, or we have to close it down to the detriment of all. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[glissade]

I think I was responding mostly to Tulip's comment - "I just feel that there is no point in trying to tell people, because it’s so difficult not to tell the truth without breaking the rules" - and feeling frustrated at how individuals are able to abuse the power of legal threats to gag their victims ... and wondering whether fear of that threat leads to an over-interpretation of the forum rules perhaps (although I do understand the point about individual circumstances being identifiable even when the poster isn't using their real name). My post came from exasperation at the imbalance of power really, rather than a criticism of this forum!

[Peony]

there are some school review websites, although I guess you are looking more for the opportunity to discuss?

[Anna C]

I posted this on the EPA thread but it was suggested that it might be useful in this thread too:

 

If current students haven’t already, I would always advise speaking to Student Finance if you received funding from them.  Not sure about Scotland but SFE offer an extra “gift” year (so funding is available for 4 years if your course is 3 years) - this in effect allows you to restart a different 3 yr degree if you withdraw after the first year.

 

They also suggest you get in touch with them ASAP should you be unable to continue or finish your degree due to circumstances outside your control (ill health and so on).  I would expect the current circumstances and investigation to be something SFE consider to be outside the student’s control, as should SAAS. 

[Pas de Quatre]

It is also worth speaking to Student Finance if you have completed the 2nd year, your course disappears and you have to start a new degree from 1st year. As Anna says normally there is one grace year giving you 4 years funding automatically. Useful for dancers who may take time off with injuries.

 

However, I had a pupil in her 2nd year at Ballet West in 2012 when degree validation was withdrawn. She had to start a new dance degree course elsewhere and at first Student Finance argued that she would only be entitled to 2 years funding. However after much correspondence over years, SF eventually conceded their argument that she had not left her degree voluntarily, it was that the course was no longer in existence, and they paid. She had not been able to find a suitable 3rd year place anywhere, but had offers from 3 top class institions to start from Yr 1. As she had gone to Ballet West at 16 she was still only 18 when this happened. 

 

 

[Bluebird22]

Thank you for this insight @Pas de Quatre & @Anna C I think in the mad dash to try and get places student finance has probably been way down the list of priorities. I really hope they can offer some financial support to those who have had to swap to a level 6 course because the majority of similar degree courses are already full.