sybarite2015@ Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Hi I've always wondered why the NYCB/ABC companies never visit London? I'm sure a lot of people would love to see them perform. Any answers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) I think the usual answers here apply, (i) cost of touring on both the Company and presenter sides; (ii) lack of large AVAILABLE London venues - especially now that the Coliseum has substantially withdrawn from such markets with their more recent commitment to musicals and (iii) a historic lack in audience attendance. The last time NYCB (and by that I mean the Company and not a collection of a few dancers) performed here it was at a considerable loss. The houses at the Coliseum were frequently empty - even with heavy discounting of tickets. Some blamed the inflamed ticket prices as being a possible cause - but then the presentational costs themselves are far from slim. Lack of significant paying audience was also certainly true for ABC's presentation of Ratmansky's Cinderella again at the Coliseum. The Russian Companies have been wonderfully served by the Hochhausers and because of their commitment a dedicated British audience over generations has been built - even with increasing costs. They also have had the recent advantage of being at the Royal Opera House and that combined with the historic allure of the Russian Company names themselves succeeds in bringing in the tourist throng as well. That I think goes some distance in explaining their more frequent appearance. After the recent two documentaries on the Vaganova lads I, myself, am very much looking forward to the proposed Mariinsky visit in Summer 2021 at the ROH. You will also be able to see, as told, a collection of NYCB dancers in a Peck piece in a mixed bill at Sadler's Wells this season. Turning the item on its head, NYC - which used to see regular Royal Ballet visits - now only gets to see our fabulous Company sparingly - which was why the selected programmes with a small collection of dancers from the Royal Ballet - and as overseen by members/associates of that same including KO'H - proved to be such a success at the Joyce this summer. I think it would be grand if Sadler's Wells could run a similar kind of programme. That might provide a more realistic presentational format given what the market seems to want to bear for distinguished entities such as you suggest. Edited September 30, 2019 by Bruce Wall 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, sybarite2015@ said: Hi I've always wondered why the NYCB/ABC companies never visit London? I'm sure a lot of people would love to see them perform. Any answers? There is more to the UK than London! I saw NYCB at the Edinburgh Festival some years ago and I think they have been there more recently than my last viewing of them. I agree though that it would be nice to see them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sybarite2015@ Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Thank you for the detailed response. Is it also because the American ballerinas don't have the same reputation as the Russian ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannette Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) Bruce, ABT has never danced Ratmansky’s Cinderella. Perhaps you’re recalling his version for the Mariinsky? For the record, ABT has performed no less than four Cinderellas by other choreographers: Baryshnikov 1983 (with male stepsisters on pointe!); Stevenson 1996; Kudelka 2006; and (sigh!) Ashton 2014. Getting back to the point of international touring by the great ballet troupes, it’s all about the greater expense via-a-vis dwindling audiences for the classics. It’s especially exasperating for anyone living outside of NY, as ABT and NYCB aren’t presented in cinemas (or live-streaming or on the ancient medium called TV) as are the Royal and the Bolshoi. How to build audiences and patrons without proper exposure? Edited September 30, 2019 by Jeannette 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeannette said: Bruce, ABT has never danced Ratmansky’s Cinderella. Perhaps you’re recalling his version for the Mariinsky? For the record, ABT has performed no less than four Cinderellas by other choreographers: Baryshnikov 1983 (with male stepsisters on pointe!); Stevenson 1996; Kudelka 2006; and (sigh!) Ashton 2014. Jeannette, Sybarite2015 quoted in the body of her statement 'ABC' - to wit: 'I've always wondered why the NYCB/ABC companies never visit London? I'm sure a lot of people would love to see them perform. Any answers?' ... which I assumed to be the Australian Ballet Company .... and that was the reason I quoted 'ABC' - as opposed to ABT. Ratmansky redid his Cinderella for them (e.g., ABC) as - by his own admission - he had never been particularly happy with the Mariinsky one. I certainly knew it wasn't for ABT - as rich as they are in his repertory. No current Company more so. Of course, both ABT and ABC are substantial companies so it certainly made sense. Edited September 30, 2019 by Bruce Wall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannette Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Thanks for this. Makes sense. I far prefer AR’s Australian version of Cinderella to the Mariinsky’s, by the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD Driver Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, sybarite2015@ said: Thank you for the detailed response. Is it also because the American ballerinas don't have the same reputation as the Russian ones? Oh! We went out of our way to see Natalia Osipova recently in Sydney. Would have loved to make it to Melbourne for Evgenia Obraztsova - but can't. By the same token I would be thrilled to see Tiler Peck, Isabella Bolyston, Ashley Bouder, Yuan Yuan Tan etc Edited October 1, 2019 by DD Driver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryrosesatonapin Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Do you mean ABT, @sybarite2015@? I have seen them several times but for the last 5 years only on video, and maybe I was just unlucky but I invariably found the corps a bit ragged/uneven and some of the soloists wouldn't have made it to soloist level in other good companies IMO. Of course, there are excellent soloists there too but I have seen some very poor dancing (compared with, say, the British companies let alone those of France or Russia). So I don't think coming here would be a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninamargaret Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 my wish would be to see the Stuttgart ballet - and at least they wouldn't have to cross the Atlantic! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannette Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Just curious - When’s the last time that the Australian Ballet toured the UK? I recall the tour that included the very modern Swan Lake (by Murphy) in early ‘00s. I’ve seen their Ratmansky works (Cinders and the gorgeous Scuola di Ballo) only in their home theatre in Melbourne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 They toured to London around 3 years ago (to the Coliseum). I was lucky to see both Swan Lake and Cinderella and enjoyed both tremendously. I thought the company looked on excellent form. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeannette Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Maybe they’ll tour again after they acquire their next Ratmansky work, Harlequinade (co-production with ABT)? Is so, you’re in for a real treat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Because British critics have always been consistently cold towards NYCB? I found these choice words about "Union Jack": Nicholas Dramgoole: "by English standards is pretty detestable. ... Strong men in the audience were uttering cries of disbelief as it happened; others were walking out. ... Outside his chosen area ‐ dancers with expressionless faces and minimal costumes making movements to illuminate classical music Balanchine flounders.” Alexander Bland: "“Though technically fastidious, he certainly lacks the regulator of good taste, which is one of Britain's hallmarks.... he revels in the vitality of chorus‐line dancers. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: Because British critics have always been consistently cold towards NYCB? I found these choice words about "Union Jack": Nicholas Dramgoole: "by English standards is pretty detestable. ... Strong men in the audience were uttering cries of disbelief as it happened; others were walking out. ... Outside his chosen area ‐ dancers with expressionless faces and minimal costumes making movements to illuminate classical music Balanchine flounders.” Alexander Bland: "“Though technically fastidious, he certainly lacks the regulator of good taste, which is one of Britain's hallmarks.... he revels in the vitality of chorus‐line dancers. " I think to say that critics here have been 'consistently cold towards NYCB' is something of an exaggeration, though I acknowledge that some critics (and audiences) have not always been enthusiastic (which I find baffling). John Percival (of a similar era to the critics cited above) certainly considered Balanchine a 'genius' and was very warm towards the company, and I'm sure other critics have been too. But when NYCB came to the ROH in the late 1970s I remember enormous queues for tickets, largely enthusiastic audiences and at least some favourable reviews; when they came to the Coliseum in 2008 (the first visit of the full company to the UK for 25 years) there didn't seem to be the same excitement or enthusiasm and I don't think the performances sold out; I can't remember what the reviews were like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, bridiem said: I think to say that critics here have been 'consistently cold towards NYCB' is something of an exaggeration, though I acknowledge that some critics (and audiences) have not always been enthusiastic (which I find baffling). John Percival (of a similar era to the critics cited above) certainly considered Balanchine a 'genius' and was very warm towards the company, and I'm sure other critics have been too. But when NYCB came to the ROH in the late 1970s I remember enormous queues for tickets, largely enthusiastic audiences and at least some favourable reviews; when they came to the Coliseum in 2008 (the first visit of the full company to the UK for 25 years) there didn't seem to be the same excitement or enthusiasm and I don't think the performances sold out; I can't remember what the reviews were like. I wasn;t talking about the audiences. From what I've read there were long lines and enthusiastic crowds for the NYCB tours. But I was reading some reviews in "Repertory in Review" and British critics initially hated Jewels. They called it "nothing but paste." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryrosesatonapin Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 In my limited experience (I think I've only been to 2 live performances of NYCB) I found their level of technique noticeably superior to that of ABT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane S Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 29 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: I wasn;t talking about the audiences. From what I've read there were long lines and enthusiastic crowds for the NYCB tours. But I was reading some reviews in "Repertory in Review" and British critics initially hated Jewels. They called it "nothing but paste." That was one British critic (Craig Dodd) and he was reviewing a performance in Monte Carlo, ten years or so before it was seen in London. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 37 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: I wasn;t talking about the audiences. From what I've read there were long lines and enthusiastic crowds for the NYCB tours. But I was reading some reviews in "Repertory in Review" and British critics initially hated Jewels. They called it "nothing but paste." I have a few cuttings from the late 1970s tour - Mary Clarke wrote 'At last, at last! After a 14-year absence the New York City Ballet is back at Covent Garden and America's greatest classical company can be seen...' and she goes on with almost unalloyed praise and enthusiasm. Even Alexander Bland (quoted above) concludes an interview with Balanchine by saying 'the company's last week produced some of the season's best works... the all-Stravinsky evening was pure joy... A genius? I wouldn't say No.' No doubt there were other comments less enthusiastic (including by Nicholas Dromgoole) but there was also evidently positive comment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I found this review Nicholas Dromgoole wrote of NYCB in 1998. His hostility to NYCB is unwavering: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4715138/Yankee-brilliance-comes-to-town.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizbie1 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ivy Lin said: I found this review Nicholas Dromgoole wrote of NYCB in 1998. His hostility to NYCB is unwavering: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4715138/Yankee-brilliance-comes-to-town.html Is this piece hostile though, or just patronising? And while I don’t like or want to defend this school of writing I don’t think it was reserved for NYCB by any means. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Lin Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said: Is this piece hostile though, or just patronising? And while I don’t like or want to defend this school of writing I don’t think it was reserved for NYCB by any means. I'd have to read more of his criticisms though. He does seem to have a hostility to the Balanchine aesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Ivy Lin said: I found this review Nicholas Dromgoole wrote of NYCB in 1998. His hostility to NYCB is unwavering: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4715138/Yankee-brilliance-comes-to-town.html I'm not sure you can really call it hostility to NYCB since he wasn't actually reviewing the company, was he? It was a group of dancers from the company and elsewhere, one of those "Stars of ..." type programmes you get over the summer months. And I think his comparison was simply between the Balanchine aesthetic of dance being dancing to music as opposed to say the Royal Ballet's more interpretive approach - and that after all it was created on interpretive dancers rather than NYCB, so perhaps the RB approach is more "authentic". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridiem Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, alison said: I'm not sure you can really call it hostility to NYCB since he wasn't actually reviewing the company, was he? It was a group of dancers from the company and elsewhere, one of those "Stars of ..." type programmes you get over the summer months. And I think his comparison was simply between the Balanchine aesthetic of dance being dancing to music as opposed to say the Royal Ballet's more interpretive approach - and that after all it was created on interpretive dancers rather than NYCB, so perhaps the RB approach is more "authentic". I agree with this. Dromgoole says in the review that Balanchine 'was already inventively pushing back the boundaries of classical dance' and moving towards a new aesthetic of abstract patterns to music on a bare stage. That's not hostility, just a recognition of what happened, and Dromgoole actually sounds appreciative of it. What he clearly doesn't much like is the effect he perceives it to have had on Balanchine's dancers. Judging by the sadly comparatively rare occasions on which I've seen Balanchine dancers, I think they can in fact be hugely expressive, but in a different way to dancers from the RB etc. Suzanne Farrell certainly left an impression on me that I have never forgotten, and never will. But Dromgoole wouldn't be the only person to prefer a more overtly dramatic approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Q Fan Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I think I have seen more of NYCB and ABT in Paris than I have in the UK. Easy enough to get to and well worth it every time I have seen them. I personally am desperate to see Vienna Waltzes but that can only be seen outside Europe as the Strauss music has some weird embargo that it cannot be played in Europe although I am not sure if that rule isn't expiring shortly? Unfortunately the VW is being done in NYC in May but it is rather dearer to visit NYC then! I cannot understand why NYCB do not commit their work to DVD especially the Balanchine and Robbins works and yes I agree it is about time they started cinema relays but I suspect it all down to costs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sybarite2015@ Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 Yes, sorry I meant American Ballet Theatre (i.e. Ballanchine's company) not the Aussie one! (I didn't even realise Australia had a ballet company!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sybarite2015@ Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 08/10/2019 at 21:42, Don Q Fan said: I think I have seen more of NYCB and ABT in Paris than I have in the UK. Which reminds me, when was the last time the Paris Opera ballet company toured the UK? I'v never seen them live and I know Paris isn't far but with Brexit and all who knows what hoops we'll have to jump next year to go to Paris? After I saw Wiseman's documentary La Danse I fell in love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trog Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 20 hours ago, sybarite2015@ said: Which reminds me, when was the last time the Paris Opera ballet company toured the UK? Mr Google says 2nd to 10th July 2015 at the Manchester Opera House and 11th March 2017 at Sadlers Wells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, trog said: Mr Google says 2nd to 10th July 2015 at the Manchester Opera House and 11th March 2017 at Sadlers Wells The July 2015 gig was a collaboration with Company Wayne McGregor - Tree of Codes - so not a full POB visit. It was a truly wonderful experience though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryrosesatonapin Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 28/01/2020 at 18:11, sybarite2015@ said: Which reminds me, when was the last time the Paris Opera ballet company toured the UK? I'v never seen them live and I know Paris isn't far but with Brexit and all who knows what hoops we'll have to jump next year to go to Paris? After I saw Wiseman's documentary La Danse I fell in love! The Palais Garnier itself is well worth visiting for any production. It is dazzling. We had booked two ballet and one opera performance(s) there this week but the strike continues... so last night's were cancelled and we await with baited breath news of whether we shall be able to see Giselle on Saturday.... I would urge anyone to see POB at home a few times if possible. It more than merits the journey. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 29/01/2020 at 05:09, sybarite2015@ said: Yes, sorry I meant American Ballet Theatre (i.e. Ballanchine's company) not the Aussie one! (I didn't even realise Australia had a ballet company!!) The Australian Ballet (TAB) was founded in 1962 and sort of emerged from the ashes of the Borovansky Ballet. I have never seen the company referred to as ABC, largely because the word "company" has never been part of their name...and I haven't missed a season since 1978. Queensland Ballet (QB) was founded in 1960. West Australian Ballet (WAB) is older still, having been founded in 1952. On the other side of the Tasman, Royal New Zealand Ballet (RNZB) was founded in 1953. American Ballet Theatre (ABT) was founded by Lucia Chase and Richard Pleasant in 1939. Definitely not the company of Balanchine. New York City Ballet (NYCB) was founded by Lincoln Kirstein and George Balanchine in 1948. Google is your friend 😉 as am I. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candleque Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, maryrosesatonapin said: The Palais Garnier itself is well worth visiting for any production. It is dazzling. Agree the building is gorgeous. Like the ROH, they have tours so you can get a peek for a modest fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 30/01/2020 at 15:40, maryrosesatonapin said: The Palais Garnier itself is well worth visiting for any production. It is dazzling. We had booked two ballet and one opera performance(s) there this week but the strike continues... so last night's were cancelled and we await with baited breath news of whether we shall be able to see Giselle on Saturday.... I would urge anyone to see POB at home a few times if possible. It more than merits the journey. Sorry, but I had to laugh at your post. I would have been very upset if I booked to go and then found all the performances were cancelled! It doesn't exactly make me want to start looking up train tickets on Eurostar. 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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