New ROH website - 2019 and 2022 versions

[bridiem]

9 hours ago, JNC said:

Am I missing something or have ROH taken of the pricing maps for Winter performances (Onegin/The Cellist/Swan Lake) which have definitely been on there until quite recently for the last few months or so (presumably since casting was announced?). 

 

Why have they done this? The pricing map facilitates for me to think about budgets and where I would like to sit in advance which makes booking much smoother. 

 

I hope this is a temporary mistake and not the way things will be going forward?

 

I don't know if they're still there or have been removed; but if the latter, perhaps it's a move towards full use of dynamic pricing - i.e. you can't have static pricing maps because there's no such thing as a price for a seat; it all depends when you're booking and how ticket sales are going.

[Lizbie1]

33 minutes ago, bridiem said:

 

I don't know if they're still there or have been removed; but if the latter, perhaps it's a move towards full use of dynamic pricing - i.e. you can't have static pricing maps because there's no such thing as a price for a seat; it all depends when you're booking and how ticket sales are going.

 

But that wouldn’t apply for Winter booking, surely?

[zxDaveM]

9 hours ago, JNC said:

Am I missing something or have ROH taken of the pricing maps for Winter performances (Onegin/The Cellist/Swan Lake) which have definitely been on there until quite recently for the last few months or so (presumably since casting was announced?). 

 

Why have they done this? The pricing map facilitates for me to think about budgets and where I would like to sit in advance which makes booking much smoother. 

 

I hope this is a temporary mistake and not the way things will be going forward?

 

I think the 'price maps' disappear once booking opens for that period, as the prices then available on the section where you click on the blob to add to your basket. Though I would normally have expected that to disappear once public booking open...

[Lizbie1]

But public booking isn’t open for a month yet I think?

[zxDaveM]

6 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

But public booking isn’t open for a month yet I think?

 

Quickly looking around their site, it seems they have now completely removed that price map. Any references to prices points you at the production page, and that prices will become available there, when released (I assume, when you can make a booking)

[JNC]

2 hours ago, bridiem said:

 

I don't know if they're still there or have been removed; but if the latter, perhaps it's a move towards full use of dynamic pricing - i.e. you can't have static pricing maps because there's no such thing as a price for a seat; it all depends when you're booking and how ticket sales are going.

 

This scares me. Does this mean we have to go into booking shows without any way of planning how much we want to spend and where we want to sit? 

 

And the the general public paying more for tickets than members as due to the popularity amongst members prices may rise for seats for certain productions? And certain casts within the same production commanding higher prices?

 

1 hour ago, zxDaveM said:

 

I think the 'price maps' disappear once booking opens for that period, as the prices then available on the section where you click on the blob to add to your basket. Though I would normally have expected that to disappear once public booking open...

 

Yes exactly. General booking for winter is not open yet. I use the price maps for budgeting/pre planning where I want to sit and for what prices before booking. It’s also enormously helpful for coordinating bookings with friends as I can tell them exact prices of tickets rather than a vague price range. How can we plan and make informed decisions otherwise? 

 

Also isn’t this totally the opposite of ‘open up’? No open, fair transparent pricing? And dynamic pricing means higher prices for last minute tickets (and it is precisely the younger audiences new to ballet who will be booking last minute due to schedules and flexibility and not knowing the system). And or price reductions if tickets don’t sell well which may not sit well with members/those who buy their tickets far in advance. 

 

I understand theatres don’t show you price maps before booking necessarily, but their venues are neither as big not with so many price categories as ROH. Do we really want to take away from the audience experience in this way and reduce what is currently offered, especially when it was offered for useful, practical reasons. This will just lead to increased stress and panic on booking day, as we not only struggle for seats but have to make snap decisions of how much we want to pay at the exact same time.

 

I’ve only just started becoming an ROH ‘regular’ (going around 1-2 a month) and if this is what it looks like going forward I have to say I’m very put off and really question who this is destined to benefit - neither ‘regulars’ (a lower level of service than they are accustomed to) nor newcomers (lack of information for them) nor last minute bookers (increases prices penalising those who book later due to unknown schedules). 

 

All of this is very concerning to me. I urge anyone who is similarly concerned to contact ROH complaining about this and asking for the feature to return.

 

Every time I’ve contacted they do eventually reply (sometimes quickly within a day or two, other times a few weeks). 

 

You can write to them here http://www.roh.org.uk/contact - I’ve directed it to the website team but perhaps it should have gone to customer services. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by JNC

[bangorballetboy]

My experience of dynamic pricing in commercial theatres is (i) "day-one" pricing is often higher for Friday and Saturday performances and (ii) prices drop for unsold tickets closer to the performance (and, sometimes, once or twice on the day of the performance).  I've not seen the price of unsold tickets increase due to popularity.

[JNC]

13 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

My experience of dynamic pricing in commercial theatres is (i) "day-one" pricing is often higher for Friday and Saturday performances and (ii) prices drop for unsold tickets closer to the performance (and, sometimes, once or twice on the day of the performance).  I've not seen the price of unsold tickets increase due to popularity.

 

Thanks - somewhat reassuring!

 

I hope it’s just a website glitch and the pricing maps to be back soon! 

[alison]

29 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

My experience of dynamic pricing in commercial theatres is (i) "day-one" pricing is often higher for Friday and Saturday performances and (ii) prices drop for unsold tickets closer to the performance (and, sometimes, once or twice on the day of the performance).  I've not seen the price of unsold tickets increase due to popularity.

 

I've been paying attention to Sadler's Wells prices since I realised they are now stating that prices may change subject to demand.  I've yet to spot them being reduced for shows which aren't selling well, although I suspect they may have been nudged upwards for e.g. Matthew Bourne productions, unless my assumed baseline was too low in the first place.

[maryrosesatonapin]

A lot of enterprises utilise dynamic pricing nowadays, from cruise lines to car hire.  Prices can differ wildly from one month to the next.  One adverse effect can be for people to hold off booking hoping for a price reduction later - not something that would be helpful to ROH methinks.

[Bluebird]

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

My experience of dynamic pricing in commercial theatres is (i) "day-one" pricing is often higher for Friday and Saturday performances and (ii) prices drop for unsold tickets closer to the performance (and, sometimes, once or twice on the day of the performance).  I've not seen the price of unsold tickets increase due to popularity.

 

I always book my ENB tickets during the priority booking period and, for the last two runs of the Khan Giselle, I've booked tickets in the £25 price band on the day booking opened.  During both runs, for the more heavily booked performances, the price of the seats in this same price band has risen to £35.

 

Two weeks before the current run began, I was looking for an extra ticket for the first night and noticed that the seats in the £25 price band were now £35 and that the seats in the next band up (which  I think was originally £35) had risen to £45.  However, when I then checked the price of tickets for the following Monday (which was less heavily booked), the prices were still at their original level.  I have no way of knowing if Sadler's Wells uses this kind of dynamic pricing for all their shows but they certainly use it for ENB.

[JNC]

7 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

 

I always book my ENB tickets during the priority booking period and, for the last two runs of the Khan Giselle, I've booked tickets in the £25 price band on the day booking opened.  During both runs, for the more heavily booked performances, the price of the seats in this same price band has risen to £35.

 

Two weeks before the current run began, I was looking for an extra ticket for the first night and noticed that the seats in the £25 price band were now £35 and that the seats in the next band up (which  I think was originally £35) had risen to £45.  However, when I then checked the price of tickets for the following Monday (which was less heavily booked), the prices were still at their original level.  I have no way of knowing if Sadler's Wells uses this kind of dynamic pricing for all their shows but they certainly use it for ENB.

 

Yes I noticed this also for Giselle. I also note that on their spring pages they have caveated that pricing may change subject to demand for various productions (not just ENB) so assume it is across everything at SW. 

 

I wonder if ENB and SW equally benefit from increased pricing after the fact, or if it is just SW? I assume pricing for shows is set by the company but the theatre either gets a fixed amount or a percentage of ticket sales?  

 

I don’t think I’m favour of such increased pricing - it disadvantages people who can’t book on opening day either due to work/not knowing schedules, or splitting budgets across multiple bookings (ie they can’t afford to block book everything in one month). Even if increased sales is valuable revenue for them it looks like profiteering to me. Others may disagree and I suppose if people are happy to pay those prices then SW won’t change the system. I really really hope ROH don’t go this way though. 

[Lizbie1]

10 minutes ago, JNC said:

I don’t think I’m favour of such increased pricing - it disadvantages people who can’t book on opening day either due to work/not knowing schedules, or splitting budgets across multiple bookings (ie they can’t afford to block book everything in one month).

 

It’s swings and roundabouts, isn’t it? People who leave it late more often benefit from late reductions than suffer from increased prices, in my experience.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Lizbie1

[toursenlair]

3 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

My experience of dynamic pricing in commercial theatres is (i) "day-one" pricing is often higher for Friday and Saturday performances and (ii) prices drop for unsold tickets closer to the performance (and, sometimes, once or twice on the day of the performance).  I've not seen the price of unsold tickets increase due to popularity.

 

In my experience of dynamic pricing for ballet performances in North America, for very popular performances the price can rise quite dramatically. For instance for an Osipova/Vasiliev Don Q at American Ballet Theatre, I booked tickets at $100US a few months in advance, and closer to the performance they had gone up to $150. At the National Ballet of Canada I heard rumours of tickets for Nutcracker going up to $400 (from $200). I have seen price reductions much much less frequently, and this despite the fact that many NBOC performances do not sell out or anything near it.

[alison]

2 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

It’s swings and roundabouts, isn’t it? People who leave it late more often benefit from late reductions than suffer from increased prices, in my experience.

 

Can't remember the last time I "benefited from a late reduction", myself.  (Talking of which, if anyone has a spare cheap ticket for Giselle I can use ...)

[alison]

3 hours ago, Bluebird said:

 

I always book my ENB tickets during the priority booking period and, for the last two runs of the Khan Giselle, I've booked tickets in the £25 price band on the day booking opened.  During both runs, for the more heavily booked performances, the price of the seats in this same price band has risen to £35.

 

Two weeks before the current run began, I was looking for an extra ticket for the first night and noticed that the seats in the £25 price band were now £35 and that the seats in the next band up (which  I think was originally £35) had risen to £45.  However, when I then checked the price of tickets for the following Monday (which was less heavily booked), the prices were still at their original level.  I have no way of knowing if Sadler's Wells uses this kind of dynamic pricing for all their shows but they certainly use it for ENB.

 

Ouch.  And there's me, waiting for casting, and then going "They're asking HOW much for that seat?!  I can't afford that" and not booking  

 

Thanks for the confirmation, Bluebird.  Obviously I'll have to try booking earlier - should that ever become possible again.

[JNC]

2 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

It’s swings and roundabouts, isn’t it? People who leave it late more often benefit from late reductions than suffer from increased prices, in my experience.

 

Not necessarily. If it is a production that is popular (think 'La Forza' or Nutcracker) which will sell out regardless, often as @toursenlair said the prices will not go down and only go up, disadvantaging those who cannot book last minute due to not knowing work/personal schedules or budgeting etc. Can you imagine if La Forza was subject to dynamic pricing how high the tickets might go? You only have to look at sites like viagogo and others to see what pricing based on supply/demand could do. 

 

If it is a production that is not selling well for whatever reason, ROH in particular are unlikely to offer discount prices due to reasons we've mentioned on here before - it looks bad (reputationally), potentially may annoy members and others who have booked early, and also may lead to people 'artificially' lowering prices by waiting for discounts (see @maryrosesatonapin's point). With the exception of some poor programming such as this year's Manon (which saddens me as I do love Manon, it's just bad timing!) ROH productions generally sell out, or even if they don't it's unlikely for them to have a huge chunk of empty seats, so I would argue that if they are having to offer discounts they need to understand why and tackle programming, as ultimately discounts are a last ditch short term solution. If things are not selling well due not to poor programming but due to seat prices themselves, then really it means they should start from an initial cheaper seat price, rather than having to reduce later down the line. 

 

Therefore unless ROH radically overhauled its system/policies, if they introduced dynamic pricing I fear it would only lead to increases rather than decreases. I imagine the prices are carefully thought through with regard to how they play into annual finances so any unplanned price reduction would hit hard. The alternative would be to almost price 'too high' to start with, to make any discount look more appealing without necessarily suffering financial loss, but perhaps that is too cynical! 

 

For non ROH productions, price reductions do of course happen. However, from what I've seen, when they do come around it is generally via the means of third party sources (e.g. Today Tix or other websites) and aren't really offered automatically 'at source' (e.g. SW booking page) meaning unless you are 'in the know' and do a quick search for these things you don't benefit from these offers anyway. 

 

(As an aside I highly recommend everyone downloads TodayTix. It's free and they do often do £15 ticket offers for things like shows at SW, including BRB's Hobson's Choice, as well as other dance and theatre such as Ballet Boyz.) 

 

I am happy to pay a 'fair' price for productions (which I appreciate means different things to different people). I am in favour of consistent, transparent pricing that doesn't go up once tickets have been released, and am willing to sacrifice last minute discounts if that means no price increases. Of course I have taken advantage of some last minute discounts, which may be hypocritical, but usually these are for productions which I am unsure about, and therefore would not have gone were it for the discount, and ultimately if such a discount is being made there are often many unsold seats, which are better sold at discount than left empty.

 

Sorry I feel I have digressed a lot!

 

Anyway to get back to the pricing map I raised - ROH have replied. They have told me they are having technical issues with the site and so it should be back up there soon. Panic over for me! And credit where credit is due, I cannot fault ROH's customer service. 

 

 

 

[Lizbie1]

I should probably say here that I dislike the principle of dynamic pricing for the subsidised arts - but  I think we focus here too much on potential increases rather than savings.

 

In the Arts Professional piece discussed on another thread, it’s made clear that people working in arts organisations are more open to lowering prices through dynamic pricing than raising them - so we shouldn’t be too gloomy about it yet.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Lizbie1
Typo

[capybara]

I  paid £20 less for my tickets for Akram Khan's Giselle than the price which was on them when I collected them on the day.

[alison]

Ouch!

[Richard LH]

14 hours ago, JNC said:

Anyway to get back to the pricing map I raised - ROH have replied. They have told me they are having technical issues with the site and so it should be back up there soon. Panic over for me! And credit where credit is due, I cannot fault ROH's customer service. 

 

I would second the point about good customer service.... I received an email today to this effect (abbreviated). 

Thank you for booking for the General Rehearsal of Manon on Tuesday 1 October.

As you may be aware, booking for tickets for general rehearsals in our Winter booking period .... also opens on Tuesday 1 October. We are sorry for this clash of a General Rehearsal with a booking date, which we try to avoid wherever possible.

 

You are still welcome to book online from 9am, or by telephone from 10am, but you may prefer to book your allocation of rehearsal tickets for the Winter season (depending on your membership level, this will be up to four tickets across the season) in person. Additional counter positions will be available for this purpose at our 1858 entrance .......

 

Credit due for picking up a potential issue for particular customers, apologising,  and taking  steps to try to mitigate it. 

 

Another recent example is where I had inadvertently booked tickets on the website without selecting the email option - I rang to ask these to be changed to email tickets and it was changed instantly with no  problem.

[ninamargaret]

I recently needed to exchange one of my package performances for another date and was impressed by how efficiently and pleasantly this was dealt with. Despite information on the package FAQs I got a seat at a slightly higher price and had to pay the admin charge, but had an interesting conversation  with the box office about suitability of various seats for ballet performances. Excellent service.

[alison]

The box office usually know their stuff pretty well.  Part of the reason so many of us have been upset to see them sidelined in recent months, I think   There *are* things you can't use a computer for effectively.

[bridiem]

I'm carrying over a discussion that's started on the Manon thread. It's good that the calendar pages are still accessible, but why should there not be a link to them? Why should patrons have to search in case there is such info, rather than it being presented to them?

 

To me, the home page of the website still looks like a half-baked initial sketch awaiting improved design and functionality. The fact that it appears to be - or is considered to be - the real thing astounds me.

[bangorballetboy]

As I've just said on the Manon thread, the ROH are working on improving the calendar function so (i) they are listening and (ii) we don't need to go on and on here about it.

[JohnS]

It strikes me that until the ROH addresses the criticisms made (both on this thread and the earlier ‘New’ Royal Opera House), we have no evidence that the ROH is listening other than bangorballetboy’s assurances which of course I’m pleased to note.  Criticisms were voiced about the poor calendar ever since the website redesign which is now getting on for 12 months.  Website News has been very much relegated in importance and it is not straightforward accessing that treasure trove of past news articles.  Whilst I have always liked the new design, the loss of functionality remains a serious criticism and I look forward very much to seeing that functionality restored.  Until then, it seems fair comment to me to continue to express criticisms.  That said an update from the ROH saying what’s planned and when would help and might reduce criticisms.

[Colman]

1 hour ago, bangorballetboy said:

(ii) we don't need to go on and on here about it.

 

You must be new here! 

[Richard LH]

Looks like the ROH are just now rolling out more changes on the website for the individual performance pages ....some examples below:

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/manon-by-kenneth-macmillan-details

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/manon-by-kenneth-macmillan-dates

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/concerto-enigma-variations-raymonda-act-iii-details

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/the-sleeping-beauty-by-marius-petipa-details

https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/the-sleeping-beauty-by-marius-petipa-dates

 

[alison]

Yuck.  Takes up far too much screen space for too little reward.  And you have to click once again to get full casting  

[bridiem]

9 minutes ago, alison said:

Yuck.  Takes up far too much screen space for too little reward.  And you have to click once again to get full casting  

 

And then where relevant you have to click again to get the rest of the casting.

 

What is it with all these lines that stop half way?? And dates in a ginormous point size but the productions in a tiny point size?? I could go on (but won't). I clearly just don't see things as you are nowadays supposed to see things. I like clarity, order, beauty. (Which, I suppose, is why I like ballet.)

[JNC]

I think my overarching complaint about the new website is every update seems to require more effort/input from the user rather than being clear and helpful.

 

Crucially what was easily displayed on one page before (whether a calendar or listing of performances including casting, or the ability to see only performances rather than performances interspersed with ballet dots etc) now requires much more scrolling and more clicks, or having to perform obscure searches. If we are having to bookmark multiple pages to find what we want or constantly use the search function this is a website which is not fulfilling its basic remit - giving people information. Having to click through should be minimised as much as possible, so should the excessive scrolling.

 

The new performance pages is essentially a ‘cover page’ which isn’t at all necessary (it doesn’t add anything) and breaks down information across a number of tabs/subheadings. When you click through to buy tickets/see cast everything you need is pretty much on there, meaning that the title/cover page is useless, only serving to add an additional click you have to do. https://www.roh.org.uk/tickets-and-events/the-sleeping-beauty-by-marius-petipa-dates - why this isn’t the main programme page is beyond me. 

 

ROH surely could have gone with a refreshed look if they felt the old side looked dated (I thought it was fine personally) whilst keeping the same functionality surely. I wonder if they did any focus groups or user testing about what people liked/didn’t like about the old site and actually implemented it, or if they just got some flash company to overhaul the site without meaningful considering ease of use and speaking to users of the site and trialling the new site. 

 

I understand things take time and not everything can come out right first go, and appreciate they are listening to feedback (although when they will action it is another thing). But what I find incomprehensible is that they seem to be pushing ahead and actively making their website a less positive user experience (despite said negative feedback). Is there anyone out there who used the old website who prefers the new website? I can’t think of a single improvement the new site has compared to the old. 

 

 

[penelopesimpson]

10 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

As I've just said on the Manon thread, the ROH are working on improving the calendar function so (i) they are listening and (ii) we don't need to go on and on here about it.

Well, actually we do and we will. 

 

That's because such a lengthy time span has ensued since a perfectly acceptable and functioning website was exchanged for a so-called 'new' and 're-vamped' version which, like so many of the new things that are billed as improvements, has proved to be ineffective and therefore a disappointment.  We do not let the fact that we are committed fans blind us to the fact that we are also customers who deserve and indeed pay for a level of service that befits an International Opera House.

[FionaM]

I’ve just received an invitation from ROH to participate in a ‘webpage user testing event’.  I cannot attend - it’s rather short notice.  Friday 25th October in Bristol.  Shame ... I could have been very helpful and would have reflected all the suggestions from here too.  

 

..... I have to add the timing is amusing me no end .... as the reason I cannot attend is that I am flying to Munich to see Sergei Polunin in Coppélia!

 

 “SP 1, ROH NIL”