Adult Ballet - questions, answers, classes and info

[2dancersmum]

The quays - there was a thread not so long ago by polishrose about starting adult ballet and what to wear.  You might find a lot of questions asked and answered on there for you.  I don't know how to do a link to the thread but it is tagged as Adult ballet and shows on the bottom of my screen when I am on this thread.

[mimi66]

The quays - there was a thread not so long ago by polishrose about starting adult ballet and what to wear.  You might find a lot of questions asked and answered on there for you.  I don't know how to do a link to the thread but it is tagged as Adult ballet and shows on the bottom of my screen when I am on this thread.

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/6430-hello-adult-newbie-here-with-questions/

 

here it is, The quays!

[GTL]

As a complete stranger to amateur adult ballet, I am wondering how close this rehearsal footage is to the actual performance standard?

Assuming my link works, it's a 2013 YouTube clip posted by London Amateur Ballet.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EdI_DCPj5KI

I'd also be interested to know what sort of an audience pays to attend amateur adult ballet performances - in your (collective) general experience what proportion are family and friends of the performers?

Just want to say thanks to those who replied to this. I'm still wondering about the first bit (n.b. the filming and YouTube posting appears to be entirely official) and somewhat shocked at the upcoming gala ticket prices cited by Michelle in comparison, say, to ENB's recent acclaimed "Lest We Forget" at the Barbican.

BUT best of luck with all your endeavours, reading about them feeds my appreciation of all the ballet I see and above all, you're preserving and extending into the community what some mistakenly dismiss as an irrelevant and elitist artform.

[aileen]

GTL, London Amateur Ballet will have to hire the theatre and I don't suppose that it's cheap as it's a commercial theatre in central London. Unless LAB manages to get sponsorship or funding of some sort it will have to total up its costs of the production, estimate how many seats it is likely to sell, divide the total cost by the estimated number and then adjust the figure produced so that adults are charged more than children, concessions etc.

[GTL]

I realise production costs are high in London, though I'd imagined that the performers subsidise it to a certain extent through a course fee or membership fee. I don't want to be unkind here but speaking realistically, in a ballet-rich city I would put that sort of money towards a ticket for a professional performance unless I was attending out of friendship with a participant (hence my original question about standard of performance and composition of audience).

To end on a positive note, it's really good to know this sort of venture is financially viable when it undoubtedly gives a lot of pleasure to so many.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Grand Tier Left

[aileen]

Having attended performances by amateur (adult) orchestras who also charge for tickets (although not so much and children often pay a nominal charge or go free as they perform in church halls) I can tell you that involving children in some way swells the audience considerably as doting parents, grandparents etc are invariably keen to see their(grand)children perform and will pay for the privilege. However, according to Bloomsbury Theatre's website the gala last year sold out and so they don't seem to have any difficulty selling tickets.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well I contacted a local dancing school asking them if they provided adult ballet classes. I contacted them and left a message on their Facebook page. I know someone read the message because there was a tick sign and it said "Read at " and whatever time the person read it at. This was five days ago. No reply from anyone [all they would have to have done is replied on my own Facebook page]. So this morning I sent them another message,via their f/Book page."Hello, I was just wondering if your school provided adult ballet classes,etc?" I saw that an hour ago, someone had read the message and there was the tick sign to say so. No message from them. I won`t be contacting them a third time. If they don`t provide adult classes would it have killed them to just reply, "No,sorry we don`t." ?  Such ignorance. Grr.

[Fiz]

How frustrating for you! I am so sorry. x

[Anon2]

Maybe you have planted a seed and they are now thinking about adult ballet classes?!

[Lisa O`Brien]

I hope you`re right Jane. But they could have contacted me,surely?

[alison]

Is it not a Bank Holiday weekend in Northern Ireland?  Could be the person responsible for customer contact wasn't available.

[Fiz]

Missing my class tonight. I have a cracking headache and keep going really hot if I do the slightest thing. Not happy!

[Jan McNulty]

Oh, sorry to hear that Fiz. Hope you are soon feeling better. Jxx

[Fiz]

Thanks, Jan. I think it was starting last week as I felt a bit the same way and my centre work was not good right at the end.

[LinMM]

Well I may have to agree to finally stop dancing altogether for at least a month after have seen physio tomorrow.

 

Last Wednesday was a bit heavy on foot ....which had been feeling a bit better ....this was because of a lot of walking because of tube strike. Then I went swimming at the Oasis pool in Shaftesbury Avenue which was really great.......this is a heated outdoor pool( but there is an indoor pool as well) I had forgotten about the sun terrace there too as haven't been there for years. Then went to LAB.

This time did a bit more work as learned the finale of the Nutcracker but no big jumps or anything.

The next day however my foot was really sore.....even to walk...so a setback of sorts. It does look as if I will have to give it complete rest for a while though as otherwise it could hang around for even longer and start to worry will do some more permanent damage.

 

Sorry to hear about your headache Fiz......Sod's law on your dancing day too. For years when I was younger I suffered from quite severe Migraines with visual disturbances so I know what that feels like.....very incapacitating. Thank goodness that one good thing about my menopause was they stopped so haven't had one for years now.

Sorry moderators I think we need an everyday ailments thread!!!

[Fiz]

I get migraine too but luckily have not had one for a couple of years, Lin. I am really sorry about your foot. That is so annoying when it did seem like it was improving. I get bad headaches from pollen overloads in the spring and summer and I suspect it is this. Unfortunately my usual painkillers are not touching it at the moment. Grr!

[Anna C]

Lin and Fiz, I am so sorry about your foot and head respectively. Very frustrating for you both and I hope you both feel better very soon.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Get well soon,Lin and Fiz.

[Fiz]

Thank you, dear Spanner and Lisa. It is now fluctuating which does mean it is pollen. It would do it today! I should be working my butt off at the barre right now otherwise!

[Fiz]

Thanks, 2dancersmum. x

[mimi66]

LinMM and Fiz, I am sorry to hear about having to keep away from your class... 

 

Wishing swift recovery for you both, xx mimi66

[Anna C]

How do Adult classes work with regards to moving up a level? Does the whole class get moved up as a group? Or would the teacher speak to students individually and suggest they might be ready to move up? Or is it left to the student to decide?

 

Sorry for all the questions; I'm just curious how it works compared to, say, assessments at Associates.

[Thecatsmother]

It's a bit of a tricky area. Some adult ballet students lack confidence and it can be helpful to talk to them and give gentle encouragement that they might want to try the next level. Others become settled in one class and tend to just seem happy to come to the same class for years. I would tend to say it is best to check with the class teacher before progressing up a level or if you feel you are struggling in a certain level as they will be the best person to advise knowing the set up and having a feel for when someone is technically strong enough to progress safely to the next level. If in doubt ask as any teacher will be happy to advise.

[mimi66]

For most open class,entirely self-promotion.  There is no assessment in the first place before one joins. Sometimes some teachers will tell you indivdually whether you could try harder class, or you should "consider" going to more basic class, but the decision is up to the indivdual. 

 

However, if a particular open class has substantial core regulars, then quite often the level of the class moves up as they progress with time.  This may happen without changing the class level names.  This is why sometimes you go to beginners class and realise that everyone is working at beginners + level!

 

Reverse is also true. I have been to a class which was billed as "advance" but because of the level of core regulars in those classes, the class was doing in reality somewhat between elementary and intermediate.  Also it is very common in those classes billed as "general" to do what would be beginners+ level contents depending on how core regulars in those classes fare.

 

However, these classes have tendency to "revert" to "advance" or "general"  as billed all of the sudden, if someone  who can obviously been vocatioanlly trained and dance at that level comes along!  Happens a lot when vocational students dropp in when on school holiday.

 

The above is just my personal experience.  I don't know how ENB or other type of class works, so I am very interested in hearing other members' experience .

Edited May 7, 2014 by mimi66

[Terpsichore]

Speaking for myself as a somewhat elderly student it is a question of suck it and see.

 

I have learned something since my first ballet class in December 2012 though probably not as much as I should and certainly not as much as others who started at the same time or after me.   In the last few weeks I have been taking the improvers' class at Northern Ballet Academy as well as the beginners' class and I have been able to do much of what the others can do.   Having said that there are several ladies in the improvers' class who have done a lot of ballet and I am miles behind them and probably always will be.

 

Sometimes it is clear from the syllabus that an advertised class is well beyond my skill level and I give it a wide berth.  Anything which mentions pointe work for instance is a good "keep off" notice for me.

[LinMM]

It is tricky with adult classes because you have those like myself who have done at least a considerable amount of ballet before so are returning to it so to speak and have some idea already of what they might be capable of mixed in with those who are coming to ballet for the first time.

 

As a general rule I think it is as Mimi says that people sort of largely self promote themselves when they feel they are ready to move on.

And very much the case with open class situations as up in London where there are so many to choose from.

 

If this is within the confines of a particular ballet school where you can take exams then moving up may happen sort of automatically at the end of a year or so whether or not you take the exam in the end.......you sort of move on with that group.....Usually though.... in this context....if you continue for long enough.... you eventually hit a "limit" class which you know you won't get much beyond (for me this is probably Intermediate level) because you just cannot execute the steps etc with the sufficient expertise with which to pass the exam. Many people are happy to just carry on at their "limit" level for years and may only do one class a week anyway.

 

Some people only have very limited time to give to ballet so may do one at the most two classes a week and if they are beginners to ballet as an adult may lack some confidence and therefore may need encouragement from a teacher to move to a more difficult class.

The problem for people who cannot be that flexible with time is they cannot attend an appropriate class for their level because it's on the wrong day. Some don't mind this as long as they get their weekly ballet fix!! I can think of one person who definitely should be in an advanced class but is happy with Intermediate because that's the day she can manage! She just dances an Intermediate class at advanced level is very nice to watch and is often used to demonstrate.

Needless to say this tends to happen less often in London because you can usually find a class at your level on any day of the week.

 

I think if you stick with ballet classes for long enough you know when the time is right to move on mostly it just takes that moment of courage to go for that higher level. Most people are more cautious and grounded as it were when perceiving their abilities.

 

However having said this there are some people whose confidence knows no bounds!! And they move themselves into higher levels before they are really ready and just don't seem to notice that the class is too difficult for them!!

 

In one class I sometimes attend which is Intermediate with bits of Advanced thrown in there is a student there who I would say is at about grade three/ beginners plus level and she gets very over excited when trying certain things and literally screams if she goes wrong or thinks she may collide with someone! A bit off putting.......but you just give her a wide berth!!

 

I think teachers in more open class situations are loath to tell someone they are not yet ready for a class and just hope the student gets fed up with struggling so much and removes themselves.

It's easier in a graded situation.......which is not that common in the adult ballet world......for teachers to place students at an appropriate level.....and they move up when ready for the next. In an open situation it's more likely to be decided by the student......and relies more on their common sense as to what is the right level and when to move on etc.

[munchkin16]

Had my first class back after 5 weeks and survived! On the whole level subject our class is just adult so the teacher has to cater for beginners to ex nearly pro which must be a challenge. Technique wise I sit in the middle of the class but I wish she wouldn't set too complicated combinations, I can't think fast enough! Also, I miss my cecchetti classes,the class is sort of RAD and it isn't the same.

 

My foot was sore during petite allegro but I landed some consistent double pirouettes so despite a lack of flexibility it was a pretty good class. I wish I was lucky like all of you to be dancing more than once a week...

[alison]

I know just what you mean about not being able to think fast enough, munchkin

 

And as for "watered-down" Swan Lake: do the échappés that some ballerinas do replace the fouettés, or are they in another part?  I can't remember.

[Lisa O`Brien]

Well I have decided to buy a few RAD Grade DVD`s,not in any way to replace a class, whenever I actually get to one,but to refresh my memory of nearly all of the vocabulary i`ve forgotten. At the moment i`m bidding on a 3 disc set comprising Grade 1,2, and 3.!! Don`t laugh,I really HAVE forgotten most of the vocabulary,and if I were to go back to classes I think it would help .Now I don`t have a barre and I don`t have a mirror,so I am going to have to be very mindful of correct posture . But really they will just be a memory jogger for me.

[Thecatsmother]

I had the opportunity to watch a complete beginners class for adults a few weeks back and I must say I found it quite humbling as have not taught complete beginners for a while. I was so impressed by the way the teacher got a good balance between keeping the adults moving but also begun with the very basics.

 

I guess what it hammered home to me is just how much is taken for granted and needs to be taught to those beginning as adults. It must seem like a really slow process but I am sure that if any adult beginners out there stick with it and really get good foundations then they will become far better dancers as a result. I guess like life it's the journey rather than the destination. It's so hard to unpick bad habits or teach new steps without firm building blocks.

[aileen]

I do feel that the terms 'general', 'open' and 'elementary' aren't helpful. The first two imply that anyone can attend, which in turn could suggest to people that the level is very basic, and most people would understand 'elementary' to mean beginner in the sense of 'elementary school' which in the past was the term used instead of 'primary school'.

[balletfanatic]

I do an adult intermediate class and all the regulars in my class have been doing ballet for years.  From time to time we get a complete beginner joining. I always find it really frustrating when that happens as it slows the class down and they find it a real struggle to keep up - how can you do an intermediate type class without knowing the basic positions and steps! Every beginner who has joined has left within a term, possibly put off doing ballet for ever which is such a shame when there are lots of beginner classes around which they may love. 

[mimi66]

As some people seem to have such an avertion towards the word "beginner" used in ballet, I shall attempt to write my humble opinion about what "beginners" actually mean in ballet terms (in the UK). It is based purly from my personal experience of adult open class as a (perpecutal) student of ballet. I hope others, particularly those who went through vocational training or ballet teachers would add or correct what I write here.

 

Most beginner's level open (as in drop -in) classes don't really cater for people who has never done ballet before, unless it is specificaly billed as absolute beginners class.

 

What stands for "beginners' level " in ballet would be broken roughly into:-

 

1) absolute beginners (no ballet experience whatsoever)

 

2) basic beginners

 

3) beginners ( current trend of calling this leve is "improvers")

 

4) beginners+ (or advanced beginners)

 

From my experience, what would normally be billed as "beginners" class in open class setting would cater for 1), 2) and 3) above. Not at all ideal, but in order for the class to be viable (even in a big cities like London) it is probably necessary.

 

A "Mixed-ability class" generally refers to a class which would cater for all 1) to 4) above, and not to be confused with a "General" class which generally caters for "Elementary" level class upwards.

 

In "General " class one is not expected to be taught "new steps" or "new tricks", as it were. One shold already know most of ballet steps, including travelling turns and jumps by then. ( OK, may be Italian fouette or Russian Pas de Chats are exception... but then they are a bit like combining the steps one alreday knows) .

 

I can say from my experience, it was taken for granted that , in an "elementary" or "general" class, you should already know steps like fouette or brisee - even though your execution may not be quite there yet. Also you should be able to pick up given enchainemants in the centre with a few marks on each side (most of the time).

 

So, by the time one is at "beginners+" level, one has already achieved a lot. There are a lot of variations and group dances from classical repatoire which can be danced by beginners+ level dancer with little adoptation.

 

It may be frustrating for those new to ballet to be in "beginners" class for years, but ballet is that difficult. And this is why in ballet world noone look down on "beginners" because we all know how much dedication ballet takes at all levels of journey.

 

Besides, there is no point trying to window dress one's ability in a ballet class. Everyone can tell (perhaps not, if you are still new to ballet) roughly how much you can dance just by looking at the way you walk into the class, and stand to take position at the barre. And by "look" I don't mean being thin and/or young-ish.

 

Editied to say; - I have been to some "generel" class which were more "beginners+" level, because of the "customer base" of that class.  However these classes have a tendency to turn back into "general" class if more capable dancers happen to turn up.  Shouldn't happen, but, well, it's better to have a class than no class.  Also for the reason I wrote above, beginners+ class will not short change dancers more advanced.

Edited May 10, 2014 by mimi66