Adult Ballet - questions, answers, classes and info

[Guest chinafish]

Paul used to teach his open classes at Central and coincidentally stopped teaching those open classes when he moved to RBS. I'm hoping that RBS is doing these classes so that his established open class student base is not missing out?

 

His open classes at Central also used to be a good mix of dancers in / has been in training, and recreational dancers. Every time I went there has been 30+ dancers.

Edited February 20, 2014 by chinafish

[mimi66]

Chinafish, I think you would be included in the "equally accomplished recreational dancers"!

[Guest chinafish]

Thanks mimi

 

I suppose what I mean is that Central has advertised the evening classes to adult recreational dancers as their targets. I wonder what the real "target demographic" these classes at RBS are?

 

Edited:

Just re-read the RBS website which says:

"These are inspiring recreational classes with piano accompaniment aimed at people with some previous experience of ballet."

 

From this it looks like the advertised aim is to have the classes for recreationals, but it's ending up like you said, for "non-RBS trained vocational students or vocational school graduates who is doing the audition rounds, with some equally accomplished recreational dancers as "guests"."

 

All the small print aside, whether it is aimed for the pros or recreationals, it's open to both and the existence of such classes can only be a good thing, especially at such a prestigious location at the RBS. Hopefully there'll be more!

Edited February 20, 2014 by chinafish

[mimi66]

OK, I stand corrected, Chinafish.

 

but just "accomplished" recreational a dancers - in class situation, not all recreational dancers are equal...and for a good reason!

Edited February 20, 2014 by mimi66

[LinMM]

And that is another thing which is more difficult as you get older.....recovering from injury. It definitely takes longer to recover and therefore can make you that bit more nervous about things if you have been injured recently. In your twenties and thirties you bounce back a lot quicker from injuries unless it is an unusually serious one eg snapped Achilles etc.

 

Of course the younger people with more natural facility have still had to work hard to achieve and keep where they are but to suggest that if older people just worked harder they could achieve the same as these younger people and that being older has nothing to do with loss of form its all just down to genetics is not strictly true in my long experience!

Ive now danced in parts of all decades but my 50's . But how I wish I could jump just half as well as in my 30's and even 40's ......though I stopped at 43 because I was getting more injuries and started taking longer to recover.

In the end most professional dancers retire somewhere in their 40's .....maybe a few in 50's but its the rare person still dancing professionally in their 60's and for obvious reasons!!

 

This does not mean you can't dance recreationally when older (I am 66) and have a lot of enjoyment and fun doing so.......but no way go under the illusion that with a bit of hard work you can be "20 something" again. This will lead straight to injuries!!

[mimi66]

LinMM, surely the point is, young or old, those high extention is something that one would develope over a long period of time - to that of person's current max potential that is.  In other words, being young does not automatically make you having a beautiful balletic extentions.  Those young girls who have achieved such extention have been working on their extention- well, actually ballet techinique- for more than just a few years.

 

Yes, I also understand you point - you are cautioning against someone who might have this unrealistic expectation that with training one might be able to compete with younger, talented dancers who has dedicated her/himself to the years of hard training - and ending up with a serious injury. 

 

Personally, I think there are a lot of basic things one should master in order to have better extentions, before going onto some fancy stretches.  Developing correct body alignments at tendus for example comes to my mind.

 

Afterall, if we are talking about ballet here, "extention" is not about how high the leg goes up, in any direction.  Not at all. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by mimi66

[LinMM]

Yes there are a lot of other things to work for in ballet other than flexibility!!

 

As an adult you can work for good line, getting the feeling for enchainements set(eg where to put the dynamics) relating the dance to the music and showing albeit in a small way maybe that feeling for the music.....is it a happy little even witty enchainement or a slow more wistful feeling and so on! You may never dance "Swan Lake" but you can still put some expression into your dance at a simpler level than that!

Now obviously when someone is working for other quality s of the Dance and has wonderful high extensions then you can have that added dimension to make it more beautiful but older dancers who are not that flexible should concentrate on long rather than high extensions. A long extended leg at say 60 can still look good if it is held with strength etc.

Sometimes if you can find the beauty of a movement eg : promenade in attitude lets say.....you can still convey something of that beauty with a not that high attitude leg.....you can find it in the upper body at least and feel the projection of that beauty. Just doing a promenade in attitude with a nice high leg won't necessarily communicate to an audience if it is not felt by the dancer.

So lots to work for and one can still try for higher extensions by working on stretching and building muscle strength but if you keep with working with your own body and not worry too much what others are capable of especially if they are very much younger then you can enjoy progressing at your own rate.

I still love to see others in the class getting some really nice height in their jumps but I know I won't achieve this now so just work at the level Ive got with some considerable degree of sense of humour about it all........which may not be coming across in this post!!

[mimi66]

[...]

I still love to see others in the class getting some really nice height in their jumps but I know I won't achieve this now so just work at the level Ive got with some considerable degree of sense of humour about it all........which may not be coming across in this post!!

 

Oh, LinMM, I know what you mean.  Over time, some of the things are just lost. I was looking at Tamara Rojo the other day and felt that.(although artistically she was really great...).  If someone who is very good at ballet and still training everyday eventually loses some of their ability, imagine us mortals!

 

For me, my most noticeable decline at the moment is reflex... when I go to Zumba class, I am always surprised how people in their 20's are very good at following the instructor even though these young girls had no or very little previous dance experience  ( one can tell  ).

 

I know I do more than fine, but that's only because I am covering my loss of reflex ability with my experience - both dance and music -.  Enough knowledge so I can almost anticipate the next move patterns without even thinking.

 

I don't drive, but I guess driving would be pretty much the same thing...

Edited February 21, 2014 by mimi66

[Jan McNulty]

Marie Claire has published a feature:

 

 

The Best Places To Do Ballet, Even If You're Rubbish

[Guest chinafish]

Probably going off tangent for a bit (mods please feel free to split this to new post), but the photos in the article are not credited. Are there any industry-wide standard / practice for this kind of thing?

[Jan McNulty]

Northern Ballet has issued a short film "What are Northern Ballet Adult ballet classes like?":

 

http://northernballet.com/?q=video/what-are-northern-ballet-adult-ballet-classes

[LinMM]

On Monday I tried out a new contemporary class and so glad I did as I really loved it so have now signed up for the course.

 

What I particularly liked was there was no real "just exercises " part of the class......instead it was broken up into little routines so you were sort of dancing right from the beginning and the music was very varied too....from very classical pieces, drum rhythms, bluesy singer and so on.

The teacher went very thoroughly through each routine so we had a clear idea of what we were doing before we did to the music which was very satisfying and she will start adding new bits to some routines each week......so will have to take the brain along too!! It is that very flowing style where one movement flows and pulses into the next which I love.....a bit Limon and Cunningham I think.

 

So something to look forward to every Monday and I also hope this contemporary work will help me to loosen up a bit and put more of my body into the dance as it were.

As it happens am off to see the Rambert who are in Brighton at the Theatre Royal tomorrow.....so further inspiration!!

[DavidW]

Fiz + Lin - sorry to hear you're both injured. I know the feeling - I've done something to a tendon down the front of my shin and it currently hurts to bend forwards so I'm missing class for a while Hope we all heal up soon!

 

I don't know if this is too 'self-promoting' for the forum (if it is, I profusely apologise and will happily take down this post at anyone's request!), but I recently wrote a piece for my blog that might be of interest to some of the people reading this thread on the forum. It's called "Where to Start? Beginning Ballet as an Adult" and I've written it to hopefully answer some questions people have before starting ballet as an adult. There's a small emphasis on guys starting (i.e. clothing) as that's what I'm most familiar with(!) but it should hopefully be useful for anyone starting out.

 

http://www.davetriesballet.com/2014/03/16/where-to-start-beginning-ballet-as-an-adult/

 

Hope it's of use, and please feel free to add your own thoughts!

 

Dave

[Michael Branwell]

May I be allowed to make my first contribution to this website, which I joined as a result of one of my pupils at Pineapple bringing me a print out of some nice comments made by you, LinnMM, abut my teaching at the Chelsea Ballet Summer course. I cannot, of course, penetrate the LinnMM code, but I'd like to say thank you for the nice things you say ...

 

The thought of your doing sauts de basques to the bus stop puts me in mind of the time I was detained by the local constabulary, together with another girl called Lynn, for doing the Peasant Pas de Deux down the main street of Shrewsbury after a performance in 1967: we were warned not to obstruct "verrcoolar Traafic" and the policeman was not amused by my pointing out that, in those dear dead days, there was no vehicular traffic in the town at that time of night. All4Dancers, I so agree the world would be a better place if we did dance balletically down the streets more often.

 

However, my "passion", as you called it Linn, was already well kindled and it is a great thrill to be teaching the dance I still adore, at Pineapple Studios, Central School of Ballet and in Harlow, especially to adults who dance for love and the joy of dance.

 

Fiz, cramp is a great problem as we get older (I am 66). Eating a banana immediately before class always seems to help - the potassium is brilliant in preventing cramp.

 

I have not (to my knowledge) seen you dance, but the symptoms seem to me to suggest that you are  (a) not using the lower back muscles as the principal way of lifting your leg in attitude and ( that you may well have your weight back causing a muscular conflict which results in cramp. Cecchetti's theory (as explained to me by Leo Kersley) was that the attitude, more than any other position, should be a "natural balance" - and we all had the chance to see a demonstration of this in the film of Fonteyn in the Rose Adage, recently shown on TV.

 

Injuries to the more mature dancer are always a horrible problem, Fiz, Linn and Dave. Bad luck! The way back, I humbly suggest, is not to give up classes, but to do classes gently and to "Listen to your body" (Maestro, again!). Obviously, those of us who were lucky - and  mad (I make no apology for using the word) - enough to push our bodies to the uttermost possible limit as professionals, had to know just how to get through the pain barrier to improve. However, amateur dancers can and do know the joy - and, even, ecstasy - of beautiful movement to beautiful music, but, please, work within your body's capabilities and improve slowly and don't push too hard.

 

My love to all three of you and good luck in coming back (again) to ballet.

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Michael and welcome to the Forum. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and expertise with us. I hope we will hear more from you.

[Fiz]

Thank you for your suggestions, Michael. I will check to see if you are right as I cannot eat bananas. They make me ill.

[Regattah]

Strawberries, Fiz? They were the other thing my little DD was told to eat following an operation.

 

Michael, welcome to the forum. I loved your first post! Please do keep contributing!

[Fiz]

Ooh! I will try them! Thanks, Regattah.

[2dancersmum]

Fiz - strawberries might  taste nice but they are not particulary high in potassium to give you that boost like bananas do.  I have the list before me from my dietician - apricots, mango, melon or any dried fruit (apricots, raisins, sultanas) would give you a better boost.  Potatoes are also a good source, as long as they are not boiled.

[Fiz]

Apricots it is then! Luckily I like them too.

[Thecatsmother]

If you are getting cramp in hamstrings it sounds like you might want to do some gentle strengthening exercises in that area and to make sure you warm up and stretch after class Fiz. Does that mean you have stuck with the going to classes option? I do hope so x

[Michael Branwell]

Thank you all for your "likes". I feel very welcome!

 

LinnMM, what does PM mean (except afternoon?) - i hope we can get in touch!

 

Balletteacher, I so-o-o-o agree with you about warming up and stretching muscles that are liable to cramp.

 

Enjoy the melons, apricots and bananas - what a healthy lot we are!

 

Best,

 

Michael

[Fiz]

Private message, Michael.

[Fiz]

Yes, I am going to class still, Balleteacher, although it is very hit and miss at present. We both picked up a virus last May and it has never entirely gone. I am ok for a few days and then it flares up again. It makes regular class attendance rather difficult, alas.

[Michael Branwell]

Sorry to be such a dinosaur: how does one send or receive a private message?

[2dancersmum]

Hi Michael, welcome to the forum if you look at the top of the screen where it shows your name and has 'sign out' you will see 2 icons. The envelope will get a number in red when you have a new message - just click on it.  The other symbol is for 'likes' and shows you who has liked any posts.  To send a message you can either click on the envelope or click on the name of the person you want to send a message to and it brings up their profile where you will see a button saying me 'message me' .

[Thecatsmother]

Oh dear Fiz, have they diagnosed the virus or is it one of those ones they never name. Does sound like something active in your system. Glad to hear you are sticking with the classes when you can:)

[Fiz]

No, I never bother a doctor with a virus. I had lots of tests done over the summer and they all came back negative. I had the famous GP response of "It's a virus". I went tonight and it was great. I wasn't very good but the teacher is lovely and so are the girls. I have met a Twitter mate for the first time ever and another girl is really friendly. I'm home.

[Fiz]

Michael, I tried your tip about tipping my weight forward in croisee this afternoon and again in class tonight and no cramp! Thank you!

[Terpsichore]

A fellow blogger in Los Angeles whom I know only as @adultbeginner but who keeps one of the two best blogs on ballet I know (@davetriesballet being the other) has written about a chain of dance studios in Southern California run by one Michael Cornell called Align. Here is her article: Adult Beginner gets Align-ed 16 March 2014 Adult Beginner. As the author says:

 

"This is awesome because if you’ve looked you know it is hard to find a class that is really for reals for beginners, and simultaneously really for reals for adults.

 

No tricks here, beginner doesn’t mean two years of experience, beginner means beginner and everyone else in the Align 1 class is also a beginner (or returning after years off) and you all start on the same day together, all beginner-y together, and you begin ballet.

 

I wish Align had existed when I started."

 

And so do I. More particularly, I wish it existed here. Maybe someone will take a franchise. We get so many US franchises that I could happily do without in such as fast food. It would be good to take one that I would gladly use.

 

I will certainly take a class with Align when I am next in LA,

 

Incidentally, I share Adult Beginner's irritation with language when she says "beginner doesn't mean two years of experience." I remember when I tried to find out exactly what was meant by "some ballet experience" in respect of Paul Lewis's class at Floral Street a few weeks ago.

[Fiz]

Many thanks to All4dancers and Meadowblythe for telling me about the ballet school their dcs go to. I am very grateful to them and to our lovely Ballet Co family for all their help and advice. x

[mimi66]

Fiz, I hope you are feeling a bit better...

 

I felt a bit under the weather over the weekend, and I missed one of my class yesterday.  I am making it up by going to a class tonight - beginner's class, but it should be a very good one, as last few weeks I felt I could not feel I was using correct muscles in my normal class.  It is not that something is wrong, rather, the feeling that something is not quite right...

 

I hope today's class might give me some insight (and some after-class aches!)

[Tulip]

Julie Feliix is running two open classes at dance x Birmingham on the 14th and 16th April including a short point class. My daughter is booked in. This class is for intermediate to advanced.