Time for Mr. O'Hare to put in a call to Alina Cojocaru?

[Anna C]

Referring to the Moderators as "Thought Police" is extremely rude, Ali Pasha. Your post was hidden for several reasons and will remain hidden while The Committee discusses it.

[Sim]

I agree with Anna C, Ali Pasha. If you don't like the way we run this forum you are free to leave.

[annamicro]

It's funny, and wonderful, how we all see things differently.  I saw the Neumeier production in Copenhagen and positively loathed the production (but admired the performances).

 

Or sometimes we see OBJECTIVELY different things :-) Die Kameliendame is one of my favorite ballet, but having seen the opening night at ABT as first, I'd have never be back to watch it: everything was absolutely awful, even if following shows were better. The same for "Zakharova version" at the Bolshoi (incredible she won a Benois for it!!! aor may it just says a lot about the prize...).

On the other side Cojocaru and Bonelli are the only two who saved the Moricone version for me, but, again, it was danced by a different company than "yours".

[Sunrise]

Totally agree Fonty.

 

Of course comments have been made about professional dancers - they are artists and comments will be made - if they can't raise feelings amongst audiences they haven't done their job. And they will be very thick skinned - to get this far they'll have heard worse.

 

I don't think anyone has been unfair.

 

My feeling is that some opinions have been presented as some kind of global consensus and I get pretty annoyed by it. I know it's a pain to qualify everything with "I think..." or "my opinion is..." but it does make comments less inflammatory.

[Guest Ali Pasha]

Thank you Sim, will take your advice. At my age I should be spending my time on serious discussion

rather than the chitchat which seems to be the norm on this forum. Best wishes for all !

[Jan McNulty]

Or sometimes we see OBJECTIVELY different things :-) Die Kameliendame is one of my favorite ballet, but having seen the opening night at ABT as first, I'd have never be back to watch it: everything was absolutely awful, even if following shows were better. The same for "Zakharova version" at the Bolshoi (incredible she won a Benois for it!!! aor may it just says a lot about the prize...).

On the other side Cojocaru and Bonelli are the only two who saved the Moricone version for me, but, again, it was danced by a different company than "yours".

 

 

I know exactly what you mean Anna.  I saw Die Kameliendame at POB some years ago.  Two of my friends had been absolutely raving about this production since they first saw it in Copenhagen nearly 20 years earlier.  After the first performance I saw I thought it was pleasant but could not understand what all the fuss was about.  But the second night ... Agnes LeTestu and Jiri Bubenicek ... oh wow oh wow oh wow.  It was like watching a completely different ballet and to this day I cannot understand I was sobbing hysterically while a dancer was just stood at the side of a stage reading a book!!  I will never forget that performance.  My friend and I were beyond the power of speech for about an hour afterwards.

[Sim]

Well Ali Pasha I hope that you will start your own forum that will be of the intellectual standard to which you so aspire. As you think you are so much better than the incredibly knowledgeable and erudite people who write on this forum, I agree that you are doing the right thing by leaving.

 

As requested by you, we will be deleting your membership with immediate effect.

[MAB]

I thought when posters made radical edits to posts they were supposed to state why.  Has that rule been dropped?

[Guest Ali Pasha]

Balshoye Spasiba !

[Jan McNulty]

I thought when posters made radical edits to posts they were supposed to state why.  Has that rule been dropped?

 

 

Sorry MAB, I don't know which post you are referring to but the rule still applies.

[loveclassics]

It's funny, and wonderful, how we all see things differently.  I saw the Neumeier production in Copenhagen and positively loathed the production (but admired the performances).

 

I also saw the first performance of this performance in Copenhagen back in the 70s and although I disliked it I have never forgotten it.  But so many other ballets are just blurs in my memory which must say something about this production.  Not exactly sure what though.

[Fiz]

I hope the stage door didn't hit Ali Pasha on his way out...

[neil]

I think the title is fine especially if one applies Betteridge's Law...

[Coated]

I sometimes feel promiscuous since I like the Russians and the Royals. All of whom are perfectly capable of performing an utter clanger, followed by something divine.

 

Years ago I probably would have been excited about a world class dancer being flown in for a few performances, but these days company cohesion is much more important to me.

 

ETA: just as a random thought - a current CdB could easily include the offspring of dancers active in the 90's. Not sure a company can be judged based on how they performed 2 decades ago

Edited October 17, 2015 by Coated

[Bruce Wall]

I agree that it should - except in EXCEPTIONAL circumstances - be unnecessary for the RB to bring in guest artists from outside.  Ferri was a clear qualitative example of good practice I thought especially as it was for something fitting and new.  I would hope if they are bringing someone in they will be doing do so because of that specific dancer's proven extraordinary merit in terms of the specific repertory so that both the RB dancers and the dedicated RB audience might benefit from it.  Of course there are those emergency occasions where necessity demands otherwise ... such as when young Polunin so rudely pulled out of his contractual commitments to the RB and M. Gomes (a principal with ABT) stepped in to dance Oberon at very short notice - having danced the same production in New York.  O'Hare has done such a fine job in starting to build the RB from the bottom up (so different from his immediate predecessor) and it really is beginning to bear meaningful fruit.  For this reason I, myself, am shocked that Salenko is being brought in for Two Pigeons of all things with McRae.  Why?  Surely there are other fine dancers currently in the Company who would have more experience/expertise with Ashton.  I would have loved to see Naghdi for example.  It was not as if they were bringing Tiler Peck in to guest in Balanchine.  

 

I would like to think that post-Acosta - now on the near horizon - that the contract originally conceived for Guillem - that of 'Guest Principal' - might be reserved for 25 performances featuring a WIDE VARIETY of guest performances with specific and enchanced expertise in that specific rep and ALL OTHER RB fiscal resources used to support in their totality the very fine RB Company that O'Hare is clearly currently committed to building.  

 

It is interesting to note that ABT this year is clearly pulling away from the outside 'star' casting turns.  There is no Osipova ... no Seminova .... no Vasiliev ... no other Bolshoi and Mariinsky principal .... no McRae .... no Nunez.  There is, of course, Lendorf ... but he too is now an ABT principal.  It is clear that the rep itself is to be the star in this particular season and chief among that element is the work of their resident artist, Ratmansky who is, arguably perhaps, the most famous BALLET choreographer in current demand in today's world BALLET market.  (Indeed, there is one FULL week that is ENTIRELY devoted to Ratmansky works.)  Even Vishneva (who is, of course, an ABT principal of long standing) only has two committed performances.  There is ONE guest and that is Ferri in a return to R&J for ONE PERFORMANCE ONLY ... and, of course, Ferri, herself, had been a principal with ABT longer than she had been with any other Company and was particularly noted for her association with the MacMillan rep at ABT.  Refreshingly the ABT schedule is now littered with debuts by young dancers.  Surely that is a fine way to begin their 76th season.  McKenzie seems to have taken on board so many of the criticisms levelled against him in the recent past.  Well done sir.  There are a deal of male TBAs - but I assume that is in the hope that Hallberg will be back ... and, of course, not wanting to disappoint the ABT audience after having had to pull all his performances last season late in the day.  You can see the ABT schedule casting for the Met season beginning next May here: 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Bruce Wall

[Naomi M]

Bruce, I understand what you mean about ABT but Semionova is scheduled to perform in Sylvia, Romeo and Juliet and Swan Lake. (You are right that there is not Osipova, Vasiliev or other guests other than Ferri in R&J. So it is true that ABT seems not depending on overseas guests which looks good) 

 

http://www.metopera.org/calendar#/all-events?year=2016&month=5

Edited October 17, 2015 by Naomi M

[Bruce Wall]

Bruce, I understand what you mean about ABT but Semionova is scheduled to perform in Sylvia, Romeo and Juliet and Swan Lake. (You are right that there is not Osipova, Vasiliev or other guests other than Ferri in R&J. So it is true that ABT seems not depending on overseas guests which looks good) 

 

http://www.metopera.org/calendar#/all-events?year=2016&month=5

 

So sorry, Naomi.  Seminova is, of course, an ABT principal ... I had meant Smirnova.  .... Just so many S's muddled about in an ever ageing brain; one with far, FAR too much on its plate.  I had meant to slow down .... So far it hasn't happened.  I should learn to not rush so ... but time has this nasty habit of getting in the way.   (Funny I was speaking about Smirnova last night and couldn't remember HER name for the life of me. ... Ah, age.) .... Of course, as it happens ... and as relates to the title of this particular Forum page ... there's no Cojacaru at ABT next season either (and she has been as frequent guest over the years as any) ...  

Edited October 17, 2015 by Bruce Wall

[Naomi M]

Bruce, yes I am sure Russian names are confusing! I sometimes mix up too.

And good point no Cojocaru in ABT either. (of course Cojocaru is great but good ABT is trying to nurture their own talents)  

[annamicro]

Bruce, yes I am sure Russian names are confusing! I sometimes mix up too.

And good point no Cojocaru in ABT either. (of course Cojocaru is great but good ABT is trying to nurture their own talents)  

 

or maybe she is just too busy with other companies and projects...

[alison]

 

 

For this reason I, myself, am shocked that Salenko is being brought in for Two Pigeons of all things with McRae.  Why? 

 

Equally depressingly, I've only just realised that she's down for the first (and therefore press, I presume) night of Nutcracker.  What message does that send out about the RB's principals?  Okay, McRae's dancing the SPF's Cavalier, or whatever he's called, but if you're playing the casting priority game doesn't the identity of the SPF usually carry more weight than that of her cavalier? 

[capybara]

It is interesting to note that ABT this year is clearly pulling away from the outside 'star' casting turns.  

 

 

I think I heard somewhere that Kevin MacKenzie likes to have guests for a period of time and more than one show; so their absence this coming season may simply be an indication that the dancers he wanted cannot make that commitment.

[billboyd]

Dear Kevin,

Please, tell us why you have invited Iana to dance with  Steven.

Some of our members may then stop 'blaming' her for being here.

Many thanks,

Bill

[Vanartus]

Interesting. I rather like her. I thought she was great in Don Q, and I've always admired her in Berlin. I would like some closer exchanges with companies. I like the swaps with ABT and the RB. But take all points on board. And ...btw...am hoping Melissa is settling down in Dresden.

[alison]

Please, tell us why you have invited Iana to dance with  Steven.

Some of our members may then stop 'blaming' her for being here.

 

I'm not "blaming" her - and she's not the one who does the casting.  But I do wonder why.  And then I wonder ... why?  And I start drawing my own conclusions, which may be right or may be way off the mark, but are not necessarily particularly flattering.  And I doubt that Kevin O'Hare will be letting us into his thinking on this one any time soon.

[penelopesimpson]

We all see things differently. If you see ballet as athleticism with a symphony orchestra that is absolutely fine but don't ask me to come and see it. I have always understood that the reason that the Russian companies fell into the trap of athletic dancing after the Revolution  was because they were suddenly faced with a new unsophisticated ballet audience who would appreciate and understand the the wow factor in a performance but not the subtleties of classical dance.The fact that the capital  was moved from Petrograd to Moscow probably contributed to this  development as even before the Revolution the dancers at the Mariinsky, if the autobiographies accurately reflect the views of the many rather than merely the author's opinion, seemed to have regarded the Bolshoi dancers as circus performers rather than artists.

 

Danilova made some interesting comments about the development of ballet in Russia and the West in her autobiography Choura published in 1988.

 

" I can see in the Soviet style an extension of the way that I was trained, but I think that what happened here in our century is much more interesting than what happened there.Somehow in Russia ballet has become the exhibition of dancing. Soviet dancers no longer want to show the story or the mood so much as they want to show us their technique- this one can turn three times in the air, lifting both his legs,and that one can do something else. "

 

The other thing is that in Russian choreography in the twentieth century the vocabulary for male dancers seems to have been reduced to jumping and technical tricks are not disguised in any way.Acrobatic and athletic  movements are created as obvious show stopping moments and stuffed into the choreography with little consideration for their context as far as story telling is concerned. If a male dancer is going to perform a series of pirouettes you see his lengthy and careful preparation.You can't miss the performance of the steps because the preparation rather than being disguised is advertised. Here is a bum lift !!.Look !. Applaud.While in an Ashton ballet the bravura doesn't draw attention to itself and is embedded in the story telling. The bum lift at the end of the Fanny Elssler pas de deux is the culmination of a pas in which both dancers perform a series of choreographic fireworks but the sequence tells the audience about the characters and their feelings for each other and none of the tricks with the exception of the lift at the end draws attention to itself because the performer has to make it look effortless and elegant.

 

Fokine wrote somewhere that the ballet audience tends to be impressed by tricks which look difficult but are relatively easy to perform but are unaware of how difficult it is to perform apparently simple steps perfectly.The problem would appear to be that Ashton, Cranko, MacMillan, Robbins and Balanchine made the mistake of not advertising how difficult their choreography is.I seem to recall dancers at the Mariinsky cast as Sylvia saying that it was the most difficult ballet that they had ever danced. I sometimes wonder whether the problem with the Ashton repertory as far audiences are concerned is that it because the dancers have to make it look easy and natural the audience assumes that anyone could dance it and as far as dancers are concerned they get no credit for the difficulties they have mastered?

Just want to say thank-you for such a fabulous mine of information which is so interesting.

[penelopesimpson]

Which theatre is uncomfortable? My seat in Bristol was just perfect.

 

Which is the inferior version of Romeo and Juliet? Cojocaru is absolutely outstanding in Neumeier version (a wonderful work): "Julia" is probably one of her finest roles. I don't like that much Nureyev version, but in some moments it's my favorite and for sure it's grander than any other and Alina was marvelous dancing it.

 

In Bristol she danced her 6th version of Romeo and Juliet (all based on Prokofiev music, it would be interesting to see her also in Berlioz based works) and having seen her in all of them I can say that the six are true masterpieces when put in the hands of a real artist as Alina is.

Regarding the partnerships, nobody can take the place of Johan Kobborg, not just for the chemistry he has with Cojocaru, but also for his personal acting and partnering skills, but Cojocaru had a fantastic result with Friedemann Vogel in the Deane version and, according to reports, in the MacMillan with La Scala in Japan (she danced 5 times MacMillan Juliet also in Milan, unfortunately with irrelevant Romeos); Revazov, Trusch and Hernandez proved themselves to be great Romeos and IMO superior to anybody the Royal Ballet can offer (or has offered in her last seasons) her (excluding Muntagirov).

 

I can agree that Cojocaru should be at the ROH because it's a magnificent venue, but that's not enough: personally I prefer to see her with ENB, Hamburg Ballet and Romanian National Ballet, her current companies. The world is much bigger than Bow Street and very interesting. :-)

As I said, the view I am expressing is a personal one.  It is good that it stimulates discussion.

 

I find the Bristol Hippodrome (and I was born in Bristol so love the city) an uncomfortable and unsatisfactory venue, ditto The Mayflower Southampton.  I also don't especially admire the Nureyev R&J. 

 

My (deeply selfish) viewpoint is that Alina Cojocaru is a sublime artiste at the peak of her powers and I would like to see her partnered by someone of equal ability in a ballet that moves me - albeit from the comfort of a good seat!

[capybara]

My (deeply selfish) viewpoint is that Alina Cojocaru is a sublime artiste at the peak of her powers and I would like to see her partnered by someone of equal ability in a ballet that moves me - albeit from the comfort of a good seat!

 

Have you seen Isaac Hernandez dance yet, penelopesimpson? He is not - yet - a male version of Cojocaru but he is a special artiste and a very worthy Romeo to her Juliet.

[annamicro]

As I said, the view I am expressing is a personal one.  It is good that it stimulates discussion.

 

I find the Bristol Hippodrome (and I was born in Bristol so love the city) an uncomfortable and unsatisfactory venue, ditto The Mayflower Southampton.  I also don't especially admire the Nureyev R&J. 

 

My (deeply selfish) viewpoint is that Alina Cojocaru is a sublime artiste at the peak of her powers and I would like to see her partnered by someone of equal ability in a ballet that moves me - albeit from the comfort of a good seat!

 

if Bristol Hippodrome is uncomfortabe for you I highly recommend you to avoid La Scala.  

 

I cannot really think of anybody of "equal ability" of Cojocaru, especially in the UK. The only one in the world comparable to her both on dancing and acting (or "living") qualities is for me Alexandre Riabko. When I think of musicality, the first image that springs to my mind is a moment on violin music in the  Ballet Imperial she danced with Massimo Murru in La Scala: the two were absolutely sublime together.

 

As Capybara wrote, Hernandez was excellent: he has an outstanding technique (absolutely necessary in Nureyev R&J) and good acting skills (both on the pure acting and on the "movement intention" sides), plus a remarkable partnering ability.

 

You have probably forgot that at the Royal Ballet Cojocaru was often put on stage with McRae: a collaboration that started ages ago very promisingly and ended up to a disaster IMO, when it became evident that they are approaching the stage in opposite directions, technically and artistically. I've seen her on stage with more than 35 partners and in more than 200 shows: comparing them I cannot think of a worse perspective than to be back to that for Cojocaru. Reading your other comments I'd be surprised you would be happy about that: I think at least on one thing we have to agree.

[Beryl H]

I've booked to see Iana Salenko dance the opening night of Nutcracker because she appears to be a perfect SPF, and I like the rest of the cast too, Steven McRae, Francesca Hayward and Alexander Campbell. First nights don't always go well so it may not be such an honour

[MAB]

I went to the Bristol Hippodrome yesterday afternoon, the first time in years and found the sightlines first rate,  The matinee audience though was one of the worst I've ever encountered, forcing me to move seats in the first act and relocate further down the row for the rest of the ballet.  The two young women sitting behind me did the same.  The problem was two undisciplined children, there was also a brigade of sweet wrapper rustlers  and crisp chompers adding to the problem.  I only encounter this problem in Britain, where it seems people are totally unable to go for relatively short lengths of time without eating.

 

In one way The Mayflower in Southampton wins hands down over the Bristol venue as it doesn't charge expensive booking fees.

[penelopesimpson]

if Bristol Hippodrome is uncomfortabe for you I highly recommend you to avoid La Scala.

 

I cannot really think of anybody of "equal ability" of Cojocaru, especially in the UK. The only one in the world comparable to her both on dancing and acting (or "living") qualities is for me Alexandre Riabko. When I think of musicality, the first image that springs to my mind is a moment on violin music in the  Ballet Imperial she danced with Massimo Murru in La Scala: the two were absolutely sublime together.

 

As Capybara wrote, Hernandez was excellent: he has an outstanding technique (absolutely necessary in Nureyev R&J) and good acting skills (both on the pure acting and on the "movement intention" sides), plus a remarkable partnering ability.

 

You have probably forgot that at the Royal Ballet Cojocaru was often put on stage with McRae: a collaboration that started ages ago very promisingly and ended up to a disaster IMO, when it became evident that they are approaching the stage in opposite directions, technically and artistically. I've seen her on stage with more than 35 partners and in more than 200 shows: comparing them I cannot think of a worse perspective than to be back to that for Cojocaru. Reading your other comments I'd be surprised you would be happy about that: I think at least on one thing we have to agree.

 

 

if Bristol Hippodrome is uncomfortabe for you I highly recommend you to avoid La Scala.

 

I cannot really think of anybody of "equal ability" of Cojocaru, especially in the UK. The only one in the world comparable to her both on dancing and acting (or "living") qualities is for me Alexandre Riabko. When I think of musicality, the first image that springs to my mind is a moment on violin music in the  Ballet Imperial she danced with Massimo Murru in La Scala: the two were absolutely sublime together.

 

As Capybara wrote, Hernandez was excellent: he has an outstanding technique (absolutely necessary in Nureyev R&J) and good acting skills (both on the pure acting and on the "movement intention" sides), plus a remarkable partnering ability.

 

You have probably forgot that at the Royal Ballet Cojocaru was often put on stage with McRae: a collaboration that started ages ago very promisingly and ended up to a disaster IMO, when it became evident that they are approaching the stage in opposite directions, technically and artistically. I've seen her on stage with more than 35 partners and in more than 200 shows: comparing them I cannot think of a worse perspective than to be back to that for Cojocaru. Reading your other comments I'd be surprised you would be happy about that: I think at least on one thing we have to agree.

If I am ever lucky enough to get to La Scala, I'll try to overlook the discomfort!

 

That's the trouble with us pesky amateurs.  We know what we like and aren't afraid to say so.  We also try to learn more from any resource we can.

 

I never saw Cojocaru with Macrae but I agree it is not a happy thought.  I suppose I am hankering after the impossible - her and Johan back together at ROH.  I accept that dancers retire but I think they left a season too soon and thought the handling of the whole affair appeared careless.  I live in fear of Edward Watson getting much older!

[MAB]

I did see Cojacaru and McRae together. they were a wonderful pairing.

[Melody]

I went to the Bristol Hippodrome yesterday afternoon, the first time in years and found the sightlines first rate,  The matinee audience though was one of the worst I've ever encountered, forcing me to move seats in the first act and relocate further down the row for the rest of the ballet.  The two young women sitting behind me did the same.  The problem was two undisciplined children, there was also a brigade of sweet wrapper rustlers  and crisp chompers adding to the problem.  I only encounter this problem in Britain, where it seems people are totally unable to go for relatively short lengths of time without eating.

 

In one way The Mayflower in Southampton wins hands down over the Bristol venue as it doesn't charge expensive booking fees.

It happens over here too, although adults are often the worst offenders.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Melody