Dance Festivals

[Eowyn]

Not sure if there is already a topic covering this, but I was just curious as to peoples opinions on Dance competitions/festivals.  My dd has entered quite a few over the past couple of years but has never been placed.  This has never bothered us as she does them for fun and because she loves dancing for an audience.

 

This year she entered the same solo she did for all her vocational school auditions and despite the fact every school she auditioned for offered her a place, she didn’t even get 3^rd at the festivals.   I was in the changing room this week and mentioned to another mother that she would be taking up a scholarship place at the Hammond in September and they literally looked at me like I had grown 3 heads.  They then asked me how many competitions she had won and when I replied “none” they said “well I don’t see how she could possibly be going to a dance school then” and walked off fairly haughtily!  At the time I shrugged it off, but now her comment is starting to get to me and my dd who was stood next to me at the time has started questioning her ability and saying she isn’t good enough to go away because she doesn’t ever win anything 

 

Can anyone reassure me that this is not the case and that festivals are not that important? She always gets very high distinctions in her ballet and ISTD exams, but is not very ‘smiley’ which I think holds her back when it comes to competing. Thanks 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I can't comment on dance festivals as I've never been to one but dd used to do drama festivals. One year dh took her (he teaches for & has sat on the audition panels of several leading drama/MT schools ) & he said that what he saw bore no relation to what the industry was looking for.

 

This mum was obviously very jealous. What an awful thing to say.

[DancingDays]

Wow!  Another example of some very small minded parents!!  Smacks to me of a little bit of jealousy there

Festival success does not equal vocational school potential.....and as an example my DD (who has had great Festival success over the last few years) didn't place in her Modern solo the whole qualifying season - even though that dance is the one she had choreographed for her auditions at Tring and Hammond and she got offered places at both.....so one doesn't necessarily mean the other.

 

I would take no notice of them - your daughter clearly has the right potential to get offers at vocational schools otherwise they wouldn't all have made the offers to her.....and festivals are very subjective - fun most of the time but subjective nonetheless xxx

[Pups_mum]

Sounds like jealousy to me, try to ignore it. Your DD wouldn't have got her place in the school if she didn't deserve it. Adjudicators at festivals are looking for different things than vocational school admission panels anyway. At a festival they are just judging what they see in that 2 minute performance, and its often the most confident and polished performance that wins, whereas the panel at a vocational school audition are taking a much longer term view and looking for potential rather than a "finished product". Of course some dancers will do well in both environments, but it's not at all uncommon for different children to gain school places than the ones who walk away with armfuls if trophies at festivals - they really are completely different things. Sounds like this mother was jealous, doesn't understand how these things work, or both. Try not to take it to heart. Your DD is obviously talented and has a lot going for her in the future.

[Katymac]

DD never used to get very far in Ballroom/Latin comps; often afterwards parents but surprisingly teachers or even judges/adjudicators would come up to us & tell us how beautiful her technique was...& it was a shame she didn't do better but that they weren't looking for that

[2dancersmum]

Definitely tell your DD that festivals are not important and definitely reassure her that she was offered places at the vocational schools she auditioned at because they could see that she had both the potential and talent for training. She has earned and deserves her place at Hammond but she will always come across such typical comments from those who are either jealous or who do not know very much about dance. Ability has nothing to do with how many competitions you can win. Hugs to your DD to have such a hurtful and ignorant comment made in front of her and I hope she will be really happy at vocational school in September

[sarahw]

Petty jealousy. Vocational schools are looking for potential. These are not necessarily the same children who are strong at a younger age. Good luck to your dd - she must be talented and I'm sorry this has ruined your enjoyment of festivals which should be fun.

[Sheila Beelam]

Shocking behaviour

Your DD should hold her head high and jete off to the Hammond she's earned her place through hard work and talent x

[Harwel]

I completely agree with all the comments above. Vocational schools are picking potential to make dance a profession. Your dd has done exceptionally well to gain a place and a scholarship, you and she should be rightly proud and pleased with her sucess. Festivals are a strange animal, they have a place to help children with stage confidence, but other than that they mean absolutely nothing in terms of judging potential to make a dance career. No vocational school is remotely interested in children's results in festivals.

 

You were unlucky to come across a rude, dance ignorant mother who has no sensitivity, and I'm very sorry that there are some people around who feel this behaviour is acceptable, let alone when they are dealing with young, impressionable children.

[Mrs Brown]

going by some of what we saw on stage this week at a festival (our first experience and only watching not taking part) I was amazed. not at the brilliance but at the fact that some of the poor children had been entered at all.  SOME were amazingly talented and I really mean that, especially 2 boys we saw, I hope they go far. there were some beautiful dancers who possibly just had not as much experience on the choreography front but were captivating to watch, some who were what you would expect for their age and some who were better, some who looked bored stupid, others looked terrified, others looked like they had a stuck on smile and a few who you could tell loved what they were doing and were "performers" but those performers weren't necessarily the best dancers although their overall package came across as better. We had an interesting adjudicator who I think in many cases tried very hard to go with technique and potential rather than showiness. depends on the class obviously but she seemed very traditional, she complained about acrobatics taking over modern, about the older lyrical being just based on the same songs now and why don't they try other pieces of music, she didn't like the obsession with floor work in everything and what she called ugly moves, she didn't like inappropriate pieces for age and marked them down. I think she was very good and all the things she said I could imagine my girls' dance teachers saying and I was thinking myself too so perhaps she just agreed with my thoughts which was why I liked her.  But from what she was saying festivals now are quite different to how they used to be.

 

I think there are plenty of children who literally just perform now at festivals and competitions, I know of a few schools who don't do exams and just do shows and festivals/competitions. so of course those children spend their entire time learning set dances but are not so hot on technique or genuine strength and ability to do things properly.

 

Your DD is obviously gifted as well as hard working and she plainly deserves her place or they wouldn't have offered it to her.  Would be interesting to do a survey of top dancers and find out how many went through the traditional slog of exams, technique and so on and how many won lots of festivals. I think we can probably guess that they didn't necessarily win things.

[Waitingmum]

Ignore - says far more about this woman than it does about your dd - who should be very proud about her achievement.

 

I asked my DDs teacher this very same question regarding festivals and vocational schools as she was commenting on some of the winners although being very showy and on the surface (to my ignorant eyes) excellent dancers, she was saying their basic technique was not brilliant so although they did well at festivals they would never make professional ballet dancers.

This was somewhat of a relief as my dd has always done well in exams and is going to White Lodge this September and although does quite well at festivals has struggled with trying to achieve the showiness that seems to be required - does not come naturally to her!!!  Not sure if I will even go to All England finals - seems an unnecessary stress!

I certainly know which ability I would rather she had although do not mean this negatively to some of the dancers at festivals who are amazing.

Just in my ignorance I thought if good at exams/technique, would do well in festivals but not the same thing at all!!

Edited May 28, 2015 by Waitingmum

[Balletfanp]

Interesting. Many years ago (more than I care to think!) I used to do festivals. I did very well at them, but ultimately didn't get into White Lodge when I auditioned, and didn't really mind too much as I didn't actually want to do it for a living, if I'm honest, although my mum was keen. However, I used to compete against another child who I don't remember doing all that well in the festivals I was at. The name? Kevin O'Hare....

 

So tell your daughter not to worry - I'm sure she will have the last laugh!

[hfbrew]

At one talk some years ago giving audition advice for full time training applicants, I well remember the comment " we can always tell the festival children"..

This statement was followed by the observation that many (but not all) were all show and no substance!

 

Doing well at festivals does not necessarily equate to being suitable for full time training or a future professional career. Nor for that matter high exam results.

[Pas de Quatre]

Yes, I have also heard the same comments as hfbrew from Vocational school audition practice days.

[Sandsfoot]

I can't believe someone would be so rude - even if you thought it - keep it to yourself!

I think the fact that your DD has been accepted by a vocational school speaks for itself and I would just forget about it. It is clearly her problem and not yours.

 

I do feel however that many children I have seen at festivals who win and dance well show great technical ability as well as artistry. I have seen the journey of several dancing children through our local festival who then progress to be professional dancers. For those who are not lucky enough to be accepted at vocational school (because they might not fit the strict physical criteria) it is a great way to gain experience in what is essentially a performance art. I have heard this expression "festival children" and I think it is unfair and seems to demean their achievement which is often gained through hard work and determination. I also think that if you look at the All England winners you will see many who have also gained places at vocational schools as well and are very talented. 

[Harwel]

The very best children will do well in festivals and go onto professional dance careers. However, the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

[Pas de Quatre]

I suspect the comment "festival children" is mainly aimed at those who behave in the manner described on another thread.  However, it is a bit like exam results, you can be doing very well, achieving excellent marks, but still not have the qualities that Vocational schools are looking for.

[ParentTaxi]

DD performs at, and enjoys, festivals (not All England qualifying ones, just local festivals, though the standard is high in 2 of the 3 we do annually). She particularly enjoys the group, trio and duet classes because of the teamwork they involve, something that is less developed through normal class work. She is reasonably successful, but not outstandingly so.

 

Her view is that festivals complement her dance lessons (she works towards festivals in her private lesson and in 'performing groups', a 1-2 hour session per week, all the rest of her 10 or so hours a week are purely technique / syllabus based) because they give her a chance to perform, in what is after all a performing art.

 

My own view is that, for a child who does not intend to dance professonally, festivals are an opportunity to 'do your stuff' on stage, in the same way as concerts are an opportunity for my other child to 'do their stuff' musically. While not an end in themselves, they can be a fun, useful and motivating part of the 'dance diet' of a child learning to dance.

 

I do also think that some of the general 'life benefits / lessons' that dance can give come to the fore at festivals. A certain poise and 'presence', learning to keep your face through triumph and disaster, winning and losing with grace, teamwork and trust in a partner or partners are all things that DD will take through her life as a result of dancing at festivals.

[ParentTaxi]

Cross posted with Pas dfe Quatre: I have met 'festival children' at festivals - but even at a festival they are in a distinct minority!

 

I would also say that it is often a function of the ethos of particular dance schools - in some, the 'festival child' type of behaviour is positively encouraged, in others it is equally strongly frowned upon. As something of a festival veteran, I can often identify the children from particular dance schools on and off stage, even in age groups far from my DD's, simply because of their attitudes and behaviour.

[Vonrothbart]

Like Harwell said, the best children will usually do well in festivals, although it's important not to get carried away by any success in them, but there's also nothing wrong in enjoying a bit of silverware that may come their way. All England (it's not ALL England is it) dance competitions are the same, they should just be enjoyed for what they are, it's definately not always the best dancers that win these too, as not all the best can enter it. I wouldn't worry about any remarks from parents of other children, just smile to yourself and be proud of what your daughter has achieved by gaining a place at Hammond. Like has been said many times on this forum, there's more than one road that leads to Rome.

[t_rose]

Dd used to do festivals & hoping to restart soon. We treated them as a fun thing to do She sometimes placed but not always. I feel that dancing solo helped her self confidence, and performance skills.

Congrats to your dd on getting into the Hammond.

[Pointytoes]

A lot if the above comments are very true, I was, and to a certain extent still am a 'festival parent' and while I have loved to sit and watch my child pick up many awards including All England finals titles, it was my husband who needed to point out to me that they had become involved in an obsessive trail of trophy hunting. My child had been saying its ballet and only ballet I want and she was becoming a great festival child, a jack of all trades but master of none as he had put it. The fear was that she had become too 'festivilsed' ( no such word I know) and this would be viewed poorly in the ballet world. We pulled her out a year ago, and it was just ballet through audition time. Festival children are not viewed in a very positive light in the purist world of ballet. More importantly her physique and facility were correct and she begins her vocational ballet life in September. Festivals have their place but they are generally not comparable to the ballet world, and whilst great fun and friendships can be made in the correct environment they can also become very time and money consuming without a real focus long term.

[Eowyn]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I have read a few of your comments to my dd and they have really reassured her (and me!) We are now putting festivals behind us and looking forward to an exciting future at the Hammond x

[annaliesey]

Ignorant commemt from ignorant mum!

 

For what it's worth, we did some festivals last year and decided to avoid certain ones in future (ie; All England). We just didn't like tired choreography and fairly feeble routines being placed so highly and adjudicators comments were quite crazy and demoralising. We much prefer comps such as Starpower or with funkier/younger judges with lots of enthusiasm

[Bestfootforward]

Festivals are great if taken at face value. My daughter did them for several years before she went off to vocational school and they taught her many things. She learned how to be a good loser, how to be a humble winner, the importance of hard work and rehearsal, and the joy of belonging to a team (our dance school). We both made good friends and had a great time. Best of all she learned the importance of good artistry and dance quality and how this was equally as important as good technique.

We also both learned (as you have found) that some kids and their mums aren't always nice and that it can be very competitive out there. However, it never put us off- we learned to ignore the rare snide comments and focus instead on the overwhelming sense of camaraderie that there was between some of the dance schools, We would privately giggle at the competitive mums and kids on the way home in the car, grateful that we weren't part of that set.

As others have said- ignore the negative comments you have received. Your daughter is clearly talented. Talented enough to have been awarded government funding for her training.Hang on to that thought at your next fesival and enjoy every minute!! Good luck for the future!

[Dance*is*life]

I adored festivals and my mum had so much fun making my costumes (my little photo is one of her creations for a cowgirl style duet!). As wise parents have said above - if taken in the right way you can really gain a great deal of experience and knowledge of stagecraft from participating in festivals. My school at the time was not vocational, but a performing arts day school, so we still had enough technique classes to ensure that the standard and quality of our dances was high. And we were so proud of our school's achievements - I remember when we came first in a group dance that we loved performing, we all stood there crying with happiness! I was one of those who did well in festivals as I was a performer on stage, as well as having strong technique and basically when I teach that's what I try and get over to my students too - dance quality and musicality alongside the technique and the love and enjoyment in dancing.

 

Your daughter may not yet have that "je ne sais quoi" when she performs and that is probably what hinders her in getting prizes at the festivals, but she got the best prize of all - acceptance to a great school with a scholarship! I hope she fulfills her dreams and has a wonderful dancing life - I can heartily recommend it!

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dance*is*life

[dramascientist]

My DD did one festival a year for 4 years before we moved abroad and loved it for what it was, a chance to perform, dress up, wear stage makeup and feel part of a group. She did win sometimes but not always and she still looks back on them as a special time . BUT there were some children who were at different festivals every week, when did they have time for ballet class? I found when watching that they looked super on many of the dances but when it came to the ballet section then you could see their weaknesses. Funnily enough my DD won a medal for every ballet solo she did because thats where she spent most of her time and it really showed. Yes its great to do but its no compensation for class. I think this shows in TV programmes like dance moms where the kids look absolutely super on the stage performing their numbers but when they were in a ballet class on one episode I sawon you tube you could see that their technique was not IMHO what it should be. Your DD would not have got into The Hammond without significant potential and talent, tell her look forward to it and don't listen to other peoples petty jealousies!