taxi4ballet Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hello all, I wonder if I could ask all you lovely people for some help please! DD is doing a project for school and has chosen this as a topic. There are various common misconceptions held by the general public about ballet, and she is hoping to cover these in her work. She would like to be able to debunk some of the myths and provide evidence that it isn't all pretending to be fairies, it's harder than it looks, yes - boys DO do ballet and they don't have to wear a pink tutu, actually you have to be incredibly fit and strong etc...you get the idea. If anyone has any thoughts & experiences they can relate, or know of any links to articles / websites that might be useful, any help at all would be gratefully received. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 There have been several studies comparing fitness between athletes and dancers - some in UK and others abroad. In Canada it was with ice hockey players, in USA with basketball players. A trawl round the internet should find several. Also wasn't there something recently with ENB and footballers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 There was a car ad a couple of years ago involving some dancers from ENB and some players from Arsenal football team. I don't think that it really proved how athletic and strong male ballet dancers are, though, as it didn't feature any. It would have been good if it had and compared them to the football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thank you, she isn't only looking at fitness she also researching things like:: Dads are quite happy for their daughters to play football, but not for their sons to dance(!) and the reasons why it makes them feel so uncomfortable. The misconceptions about what people think is the right physique for ballet Comments like "Does it really hurt to wear those pointe shoes = do your feet bleed all the time?"; "The next Billy Elliot/Darcey Bussell"; "It's a very short career you know": "She'll end up an anorexic, they all do"; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I don't know if this would suit, but if you are speaking of misconceptions, how about those who think pointe shoes are made of wood? I've also heard someone ask a working professional dancer, "But what do you do for a living?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 A common misconception I think is that children who go to ballet classes,their parents are all comfortably-off,Middle Class types. Well I am from a single parent family,we lived in a council house and lived on benefits. So there you go.! [Or maybe we were in the minority?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I suppose it depends on how far you take it thequays, if a child only has a couple of lessons per week at the local dace school, then it won't be too expensive. On the other hand, if another child attends twice that amount plus an associate class, plus travelling costs, summer schools, festivals, clothing, etc, then you can soon tot up say £5000 per annum. That amount will be a small fortune to a lot of parents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I don't dare add it up. I suspect it would be difficult for a child from a 'poor' family to do more than a class or 2 a week and hence the chance to make a career out of it or progress to a higher level would be gone I think. Even if you didn't do exams etc pointe shoes, for example, would be prohibitive. I don't think it's just dance though. My son's gymnastics fees would also be out of reach I think. And what about music lessons - even renting an instrument and paying for proper lessons would be expensive. Edited January 31, 2015 by sarahw 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think that if your family is really poor you would need to go away to vocational school at 11 on a full bursary these days. Group ballet lessons are not particularly expensive but if you are seriously considering a career in ballet you need to be doing several hours of ballet a week which will probably include private lessons and associate schemes. There's also the question of how you get to these lessons if your family does not have a car. This might not be a problem in London or some other big cities but could be if you live elsewhere. Recently, concern has been expressed that an acting career is becoming the preserve of the wealthy. I'm not sure what has changed in this respect. We all know that the cost of living (especially housing costs) has increased and that wages and benefits have stagnated. All careers are much harder to get into nowadays, for various reasons, but it comes down to larger numbers of would-be students/employees chasing the same number of or fewer places. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just an idea – I have seen a lot of posts on Facebook lately about Misty Copeland breaking barriers (African-American, started ballet at 13, from a poor family). Also, Michaela DePrince, from the doco 'First Position' is an inspiring dancer from a traumatic start (war orphan adopted from Sierra Leone, has vitiligo, also black). I know these are American examples, but in terms of stereotypes they are revolutionary in the dance world! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessandtheFrog Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Here is what I know: A fact I know is that it has been tested that male ballet dancers are stronger than rugby players. Also once I told a teacher ( not a dance teacher) about an upcoming audition. The teacher asked me what do they look for and I said about the 'right' body proportions etc. but the teacher just thought about it as being not overweight and being skinny then you qualify. Someone asked me 'why would you want to do ballet if you know you are going to wreck your feet and injure yourself?' However I don't believe this unless someone proves this. Also people assume that when you go en pointe that you are just wrecking your feet, but I thought it only gave you problems if you were under 10 years old because the things that are in between and cushion your bones aren't fully developed (sorry I don't know how to spell it). A stupid rumor one of my non - dancing friends said that somewhere in Russia, they shove you down into the splits so it ends up snapping something in your legs ( she said a version of that again but for gymnastics in China ) . In my local dance school when I was younger, all my (ex) friends stopped because they claimed that it was too girly, not cool, only girly girls do ballet, you would be silly if you carried on ballet etc. however looking back now, I think they just made an excuse for quitting because it was when the ballet classes started to get harder! Sorry for my rant and me jumping form topic to topic.☺ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katymac Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 DD has challenged teachers who thought she wouldn't/shouldn't do ballet because she was mixed race or because she started too late Or because I have a degree I will insist on A levels first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w445403 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 My sister constantly told me I should stop DS from dancing as I was 'making him different' and he would be bullied. My nephew avoids him like the plague as he's convinced he must be gay. Every time we say he's a dancer we get the Billy Elliott comments even though he had been dancing for at least 5 years before he was old enough to watch the film/see the musical. 'It's easier for boys' Really, how and in what way, it's certainly not been our experience! Far from being gay or effeminate we've found that being a dancer has made him really fit and strong and very comfortable in female company, have spent most of his life surrounded by girls! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Just an idea – I have seen a lot of posts on Facebook lately about Misty Copeland breaking barriers (African-American, started ballet at 13, from a poor family). Also, Michaela DePrince, from the doco 'First Position' is an inspiring dancer from a traumatic start (war orphan adopted from Sierra Leone, has vitiligo, also black). I know these are American examples, but in terms of stereotypes they are revolutionary in the dance world! there are those that think they are firsts, however, and though there have not been enough, i'll point one out from the fairly recent past, Debra Austin, a soloist at the New York City Ballet in the 70s, seen here in 1988 dancing la sylphide with the pennsylvania ballet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6RHgi6Sc98 Edited February 2, 2015 by victoriapage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutcracker-x Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 A stupid rumor one of my non - dancing friends said that somewhere in Russia, they shove you down into the splits so it ends up snapping something in your legs ( she said a version of that again but for gymnastics in China I was watching a documentary on YouTube yesterday and the mum in it was desperate for her daughter to become a ballerina even before she was born and then once she was born she had her in the splits by the age of one month (or the cross splits as she said)!!! So it goes to show that in some countries they do push them into the splits!! ] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audsjcanuck Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 So here is a little antidote. My dd, who is at a vocational ballet school, went for dinner with her classmates at a Sushi restaurant this past weekend. It was an all-you-can-eat deal but the rules are you pay for what you DON'T eat. They ordered massive food and the waiter was concerned because they would have to pay for leftovers.... they not only finished the first round but polished off another 2 rounds. Most dancers DO eat. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 I was watching a documentary on YouTube yesterday and the mum in it was desperate for her daughter to become a ballerina even before she was born and then once she was born she had her in the splits by the age of one month (or the cross splits as she said)!!! So it goes to show that in some countries they do push them into the splits!! ] Funny thing is, my dd slept in the frog position from the day she was born, and the paediatricians kept coming to check her hips in the maternity unit! And when she was a toddler, she then had a habit of going down the slide sideways in the splits... Thanks all, lots of food for thought for dd's project 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessandtheFrog Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I was watching a documentary on YouTube yesterday and the mum in it was desperate for her daughter to become a ballerina even before she was born and then once she was born she had her in the splits by the age of one month (or the cross splits as she said)!!! So it goes to show that in some countries they do push them into the splits!! ] I did know that they would push people into splits but it was the bit about breaking their legs and snapping them into place that I didn't believe. Please don't tell me they snap people's legs! Edited February 2, 2015 by PrincessandtheFrog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessandtheFrog Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sorry I was learning to use the multi quote button! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anondancer_15 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I find this all really interesting to read everyone's opinions, stories and comments around this kind of topic... Makes a very interesting read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoriapage Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I did know that they would push people into splits but it was the bit about breaking their legs and snapping them into place that I didn't believe. Please don't tell me they snap people's legs! I doubt it, I think that falls under the category of things people think they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaffa Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 .... Also people assume that when you go en pointe that you are just wrecking your feet, but I thought it only gave you problems if you were under 10 years old because the things that are in between and cushion your bones aren't fully developed (sorry I don't know how to spell it). I think this important point often gives rise to another misconception, that the minute you have passed the 'magic' age/bone scan result, all pointe work is suddenly ok. Yaffa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I know I have told this tale before and it is from the point of view of watching ballet. When I first started watching ballet (and even put posters on my office wall) one of my male colleagues used to rib me unmercifully quoting all the obvious stereotypes that all the men were gay and that it was only for girls to watch etc. His mother in law had booked to take one of his daughters to see a Russian company performing Swan Lake at the Empire and unfortunately she was too unwell to go. His wife refused to go in her place (for all the usual stereotypical reasons! - yes women think the same thing too). Rather than waste the tickets my colleague decided to take his daughter. The following day in a meeting with around 20 other people he apologised to me for all the teasing I had had to put up with for years! He said he had had no idea how beautiful the ballet was or how much effort went into it and how much strength the men had. He also said that he would go again quite happily. True to his word I have bumped into him at ballet performances in Liverpool over the years! What makes this sad is that so many people have these opinions without ever having watched a ballet and if we could only persuade people to go then they may change those misguided opinions about stereotypes. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just an idea – I have seen a lot of posts on Facebook lately about Misty Copeland breaking barriers (African-American, started ballet at 13, from a poor family). Also, Michaela DePrince, from the doco 'First Position' is an inspiring dancer from a traumatic start (war orphan adopted from Sierra Leone, has vitiligo, also black). I know these are American examples, but in terms of stereotypes they are revolutionary in the dance world! And now Precious Adams, at ENB. And there are loads more examples among the men - the RB alone has, what, about 4 black male dancers now? ENB has a couple; BRB my mind goes blank, but at least 3. My sister constantly told me I should stop DS from dancing as I was 'making him different' and he would be bullied. My nephew avoids him like the plague as he's convinced he must be gay. Ugh, that must be horrible. And of course, being gay is contagious ... Far from being gay or effeminate we've found that being a dancer has made him really fit and strong and very comfortable in female company, have spent most of his life surrounded by girls! You could, for example, quote the higher ranks of the RB, where the majority of the male principals are straight. The same used to be true of BRB and ENB, but I haven't recalculated that in recent years since various people have left. Also, what about that young man featured in the papers a couple of years ago who combines ballet and rugby? And I think someone else combined ballet and judo or karate or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaffa Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I know I have told this tale before and it is from the point of view of watching ballet. When I first started watching ballet (and even put posters on my office wall) one of my male colleagues used to rib me unmercifully quoting all the obvious stereotypes that all the men were gay and that it was only for girls to watch etc. His mother in law had booked to take one of his daughters to see a Russian company performing Swan Lake at the Empire and unfortunately she was too unwell to go. His wife refused to go in her place (for all the usual stereotypical reasons! - yes women think the same thing too). Rather than waste the tickets my colleague decided to take his daughter. The following day in a meeting with around 20 other people he apologised to me for all the teasing I had had to put up with for years! He said he had had no idea how beautiful the ballet was or how much effort went into it and how much strength the men had. He also said that he would go again quite happily. True to his word I have bumped into him at ballet performances in Liverpool over the years! What makes this sad is that so many people have these opinions without ever having watched a ballet and if we could only persuade people to go then they may change those misguided opinions about stereotypes. Interesting that it took a child's "help" to change the adult's misconceptions. I've found that parents of children enrolled in outreach schemes of RBS etc. frequently say that their children's experience has brought ballet into their own lives or has at least given them great respect for what dancers do. Yaffa [edited for clarity] Edited February 3, 2015 by Yaffa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletsister Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 My dd dances five times a week and does festivals, summer schools etc. I have two other children who don't dance. As has been mentioned the cost would definately be prohibitive for a lot of people. Plus the time spent transporting dd to and from classes. Therefore I would agree that it is mostly a middle class demographic. I am frequently asked (by non dancing friends) if my dd will make a career from dance. I have no idea what the future holds and my reply is that she has gained soooo much from dancing over the last 6 years that even if she gave up tomorrow it will all have been worth it. The opportunites she has had and the friends she has made will last a lifetime. And she is still only 10 years old! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddsballetmum Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 http://www.beyonce.com/brooklyn-mack/ Article on black principal dancer might be of use - saw it as part of black history awareness week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The movie Streetdance would be a good demonstration of how ballet is stereotypically presented in the media and might make a good starter for discussion in your DD's project taxi. It covers pretty much the full range of stereotypes ranging from snooty, self obsessed girls that don't eat, to draconian foreign teachers yelling random French words into the class, pushy rich parents and an "audition for the Royal Ballet"scene more bizarre than Billy Elliot. But never fear, their association with the (obviously) more vibrant and inspired streetdancers ultimately frees the ballet dancers from their chains and they learn how to express themselves! In fact the general topic of how the ballet world is portrayed in film and television would be interesting. Off hand I can't think of any films where ballet dancers are portrayed as normal people - they are usually elitist, mentally unstable, anorexic or tortured in some other way. Ok,that's drama, but it probably says something about the way ballet is viewed generally. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Absolutely! I really wanted to see Black Swan until I read the reviews which made everyone involved in ballet seem totally crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaffa Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Off hand I can't think of any films where ballet dancers are portrayed as normal people - they are usually elitist, mentally unstable, anorexic or tortured in some other way. Ok,that's drama, but it probably says something about the way ballet is viewed generally. "The Company" comes pretty close: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Company_(film), though I've heard it referred to as 'boring'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I was watching a documentary on YouTube yesterday and the mum in it was desperate for her daughter to become a ballerina even before she was born and then once she was born she had her in the splits by the age of one month (or the cross splits as she said)!!! So it goes to show that in some countries they do push them into the splits!! ]Do you remember what it was called? If like to watch it x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think that it may be called 'A Beautiful Tragedy' which featured Oxana Shorik who was training at Perm. She did actually make it as a ballerina with the Mariinsky and danced with the company when it came to the ROH last summer. Her mother wanted her to be a ballerina from when she was born and said that she used to work on her daughter's turnout when she was a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you, going to watch it now x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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